khilafah Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 The day DK:TF was released was the day that the gamepad become completely irrelevant. Utter waste of money and resource. It's been said plenty of times and that is that Nintendo developed the gamepad with no clear objective on how they were gonna use the damn thing.
Serebii Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 The day DK:TF was released was the day that the gamepad become completely irrelevant. Utter waste of money and resource. It's been said plenty of times and that is that Nintendo developed the gamepad with no clear objective on how they were gonna use the damn thing. So, would you rather Nintendo shoehorn the features in where they may not belong? Nintendo did set out how they were going to use it. The entire concept behind it originally was Off-TV Play. They achieved this, even DKC:TF has it. The other things are extras. Problem is, for many, that isn't enough. Besides, they said they're doubling down on GamePad unique features for games in the upcoming line-ups at the Investor Meeting, so it's not "completely irrelevant"
Sheikah Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Second screen map & inventory has really been revolutionary for me. It has changed the entire way games are played and increased immersion for me. But what I'm saying is, lots of games aren't even using it for this. I also don't think it's really that seamless like you suggest. Whether you look away from the TV and down at the gamepad map, or press a button for a map to come up on the screen, you're still broken away from the gameplay screen. I also like my game to be paused while I am not looking at the screen since anything can happen while you're not really paying attention. The only reason it worked that well in Wind Waker was essentially because the boat auto sailed without additional input while you could browse through the map. Any other game and it's no better than a map on screen.
Daft Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) I honestly don't remember the last time I ever bothered looking at an in game map, bar ACIV. It takes no time at all to press the touch-pad to bring it up and pinch-zoom in and out (in fact, that type of multi-touch interface is more crucial to immersion than what the Wii U screen is - what is it capacitive?). If I was really bothered about a second screen I'd just have the app open on my iPad. Edited March 5, 2014 by Daft
Shorty Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 I guess you don't play many dungeon crawlers, Daft :p I don't really see any difference between pressing start to bring up a menu, and looking down. You still have to stop what you're doing. My favourite kind of menu/inventory is the one that doesn't break gameplay at all. Phantasy Star Online had a menu you could navigate with the D-pad and still run around with the analgue stick.
liger05 Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 But what I'm saying is, lots of games aren't even using it for this. I also don't think it's really that seamless like you suggest. Whether you look away from the TV and down at the gamepad map, or press a button for a map to come up on the screen, you're still broken away from the gameplay screen. I also like my game to be paused while I am not looking at the screen since anything can happen while you're not really paying attention. The only reason it worked that well in Wind Waker was essentially because the boat auto sailed without additional input while you could browse through the map. Any other game and it's no better than a map on screen. I agree with this. With the DS it was seamless but with the Wii U I have to take my eyes away from the TV screen and it doesnt feel right to me. Give me a pro controller and put more power under the hood and I think you have a better console than the one we have now. I also think the gamepad is too big and even though it has all the functions of a standard controller my hands hurt when using it for long period of time. Nintendo did set out how they were going to use it. The entire concept behind it originally was Off-TV Play. They achieved this, even DKC:TF has it. The other things are extras. That to me seems like a lot of money spent on a feature which appeals to so few when multiple tv's in a house are common these days. They took a huge gamble on the gamepad yet still havent produced anything to prove the value of the controller. Also I thought the whole concept of the gamepad was supposed to be more about asymmetrical gameplay and not off-tv play?
Serebii Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) I agree with this. With the DS it was seamless but with the Wii U I have to take my eyes away from the TV screen and it doesnt feel right to me. Give me a pro controller and put more power under the hood and I think you have a better console than the one we have now. I also think the gamepad is too big and even though it has all the functions of a standard controller my hands hurt when using it for long period of time. That to me seems like a lot of money spent on a feature which appeals to so few when multiple tv's in a house are common these days. They took a huge gamble on the gamepad yet still havent produced anything to prove the value of the controller. Also I thought the whole concept of the gamepad was supposed to be more about asymmetrical gameplay and not off-tv play? You seem to overestimate how many people actually do have multiple TV. Plus, those that do, will they really unplug everything and shift it upstairs when their significant other wants to watch Celebrity Dancing with Pandas on ice? Off-TV Play was the original concept behind the GamePad, and that then moved into the multiplayer, but the original idea was off-tv play. I guess you don't play many dungeon crawlers, Daft :p I don't really see any difference between pressing start to bring up a menu, and looking down. You still have to stop what you're doing. My favourite kind of menu/inventory is the one that doesn't break gameplay at all. Phantasy Star Online had a menu you could navigate with the D-pad and still run around with the analgue stick. For me, having it on the screen seems a bit more organic, for lack of a better word. You can still see what's going on and/or control the game, but you can check the map. However, using a pause menu, and you're stuck on that and can't really negotiate the situation better. Imagine you're hunting for something...let's go for Treasure on Wind Waker. Normally, you'd have the map, and you'd constantly be pausing to see if you're near it. Here, you can see when you're close on the GamePad, and even manipulate your course if necessary to get into perfect position. Can you do it with a pause menu? Sure. Does that mean it's better, and that we shouldn't bother trying to change things up? I don't believe so. Edited March 5, 2014 by Serebii Automerged Doublepost
liger05 Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) You seem to overestimate how many people actually do have multiple TV. Plus, those that do, will they really unplug everything and shift it upstairs when their significant other wants to watch Celebrity Dancing with Pandas on ice? But do people want to play console games on the smaller screens. I think the Wii U and PS4/Vita off tv play offerings are nice optional extra's but they appeal to very few people. People like playing these console games on big azz flat screen tv's. Off-TV Play was the original concept behind the GamePad, and that then moved into the multiplayer, but the original idea was off-tv play. Yet they still produced a gamepad with a limited range and limited battery life. You may ask is someone going to shift a console upstairs to use it but for some they have no choice as the gamepad doesnt work upstairs. Edited March 5, 2014 by liger05
Sheikah Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) You seem to overestimate how many people actually do have multiple TV. Plus, those that do, will they really unplug everything and shift it upstairs when their significant other wants to watch Celebrity Dancing with Pandas on ice? It's a niche scenario, really. It's not something I'd expect to pay an extra £100 to have. Teenagers are probably more likely to play in their own room and aren't likely to be kicked off. Kids (one of Nintendo's biggest target demographics) generally get made to stop playing to do their homework/whatever reason anyway. And at least me and my friends, again, had TVs in our rooms when we were young. Even if they were relatively small. You're basically looking mostly at adult couples with the Wii U being hooked up to the TV (like me). Today we have TVCatchup/iPlayer/4od on tablets and laptops, and generally there may only be one or two worthwhile things to watch in the evening for us anyway. The chances that we both absolutely need the TV at the same time is usually quite low, and even then I'm reluctant to use the gamepad on account of how poor the screen quality is. I'm not saying off screen gaming doesn't have appeal, but I am saying it doesn't have mainstream appeal. Certainly not to the extent they charge everyone £100 extra for it. Edited March 5, 2014 by Sheikah
Wii Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 So, would you rather Nintendo shoehorn the features in where they may not belong? Nintendo did set out how they were going to use it. The entire concept behind it originally was Off-TV Play. They achieved this, even DKC:TF has it. The other things are extras. Problem is, for many, that isn't enough. Besides, they said they're doubling down on GamePad unique features for games in the upcoming line-ups at the Investor Meeting, so it's not "completely irrelevant" Have a look at this and say that again. It was only 1 aspect of the gamepad.
Serebii Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Have a look at this and say that again. It was only 1 aspect of the gamepad. I said the concept, not the only thing they showed off. You keep twisting my words.
Wii Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 I said the concept, not the only thing they showed off. You keep twisting my words. Really, I'm twisting things? I think not.
Serebii Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Really, I'm twisting things? I think not. Yes, you are. You are responding to me, twisting my words to mean what they didn't. I am always very clear with what I say, and you just respond as if I said something completely different in an attempt to criticise or discredit me. Please desist. Out of respect for @Ashley and this forum, I've thrown you on my ignore list so petty arguments and word twisting does not occur.
Agent Gibbs Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 oh good were all arguing about the WiiU pad vs low power again.... Lets try a new angle on that shall we? Would you have still bought thw wiiU including its gamepad....if it had the same/similar spec to the Xbone, and was the same price (assuming kinect/gamepad cost parity) so £430 for a next gen WiiU? I think i would, would dev's have supported it then?
Ville Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Yay, more fighting. >_> Anyway, the gamepad is great, but personally I find it more suitable for navigating the menus, miiverse, internet and playing old retro games. For actual Wii U titles, I'd still play them via the tv. This is kind of problematic, since I don't actually wanna do that...the gamepad is kind of like a handheld console, it's rather comfortable to use, yet the games that work the best on it are the indie or old games. So in a way, it's working against itself... #imo
Retro_Link Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) Can you do video calls on the Gamepad? And does Wii Fit work entirely on the Gamepad? Still can't believe they haven't flooded the eShop with [Nintendo] Board Games/Minigames. Come on Ville, this isn't exactly "fighting"! This forum really isn't that bad. Edited March 5, 2014 by Retro_Link
Wii Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Yes, you are. You are responding to me, twisting my words to mean what they didn't. I am always very clear with what I say, and you just respond as if I said something completely different in an attempt to criticise or discredit me. Please desist. Out of respect for @Ashley and this forum, I've thrown you on my ignore list so petty arguments and word twisting does not occur. You do that. Show me what I twisted? You made a statement, I showed a video, I didn't twist anything. That video is Nintendo's concept of what the Wii U is. It's better and easier to run away and ignore when you can't prove what you're talking about.
Josh64 Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Party games for me have justified the inclusion of the GamePad but the games that do use it are so few and far between that it still seems like a wasted opportunity. As far as maps and inventories are concerned though, I have to agree with Serebii. Wind Waker was miles better for me thanks to the optimised inventories and map... Was it worth the extra (estimated) €100 though? I'm not sure. Either way, judging by sales and consumer reaction, it was clearly the wrong path for Nintendo to take
Retro_Link Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 You do that. Show me what I twisted? You made a statement, I showed a video, I didn't twist anything. That video is Nintendo's concept of what the Wii U is. It's better and easier to run away and ignore when you can't prove what you're talking about.Dude he's added you to his ignore list.
Sheikah Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Ville, if you think this is "fighting" I don't really think the internet is the best place for you! This forum really isn't that bad. I think it's a shame when people brand any discussion of opposing views as 'fighting'. This is a forum for discussing things, and people don't always have the same view. It would be really boring if everyone felt the same way about everything.
liger05 Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 oh good were all arguing about the WiiU pad vs low power again.... Lets try a new angle on that shall we? Would you have still bought thw wiiU including its gamepad....if it had the same/similar spec to the Xbone, and was the same price (assuming kinect/gamepad cost parity) so £430 for a next gen WiiU? I think i would, would dev's have supported it then? No as neither Kinect or the gamepad do enough to justify such a price point.
Ville Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Jesus guys. There's "discussion" and then there's "oh mah god you're twisting mah words you're so wrong!" -type of endless holier-than-thou bickering. And yes, I was referring to Wii and Serebii here. Maybe it's for the better if they DO ignore list each other...
Serebii Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Can you do video calls on the Gamepad?And does Wii Fit work entirely on the Gamepad? Still can't believe they haven't flooded the eShop with [Nintendo] Board Games/Minigames. Come on Ville, this isn't exactly "fighting"! This forum really isn't that bad. Yes you can and yes it does
dazzybee Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 You do that. Show me what I twisted? You made a statement, I showed a video, I didn't twist anything. That video is Nintendo's concept of what the Wii U is. It's better and easier to run away and ignore when you can't prove what you're talking about. Why are you still talking to him other than you struggle to LET. GO!!!! Twisting is maybe strong, but that video doesn't disprove what serbeii said, that video shows EVERYTHING the controller is capable of. But Nintendo HAVE said they wanted to break the gamer tied to a TV situation many times so does support what Serebii is saying.
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