Jonnas Posted May 26, 2013 Posted May 26, 2013 I almost killed Cube on the night I died. I'm not sure if it was for the best, since lynching him took a day, but I think mr-paul played a good game. Lynching Rummy was a bad decision, Diageo, this is the guy who shot a terrorist. Anyway, I really enjoyed this game. Made for some good tension, and hoping to god your gut instinct is right.
Sméagol Posted May 26, 2013 Author Posted May 26, 2013 First of all, the actions, than I’ll post my thoughts later (formatting final post took a bit longer than I thought :p). They are in chronological order by the way. Night 1 - Rummy kills Sheikah - The Peeps kills Sheikah - Tales kills Yvonne - Yvonne kills The Peeps - Sheikah kills Dud - Dud kills Jon DeDeDe So.. The only Terrorist to actually hit a Citizen is Sheikah. Strangely enough, the only Terrorist who didn’t take action was the one to survive.. Night 2 - Cube kills Tales - Mr-Paul kills Jonnas Night 3 - Mr-Paul (obviously) kills Magnus Peterson
Sheikah Posted May 26, 2013 Posted May 26, 2013 I didn't kill you Yvonne because I thought you were terrorist.
Sheikah Posted May 26, 2013 Posted May 26, 2013 I almost killed Cube on the night I died. I'm not sure if it was for the best, since lynching him took a day, but I think mr-paul played a good game. Lynching Rummy was a bad decision, Diageo, this is the guy who shot a terrorist. Anyway, I really enjoyed this game. Made for some good tension, and hoping to god your gut instinct is right. Yeah but most of the terrorists were shooting other terrorists, so I don't know about that as justification. :p SHEIKAHHHHH why? Because you were town! ofc :p
Yvonne Posted May 26, 2013 Posted May 26, 2013 Cube was my pick for the last mafia. I used RNG and it landed on Diageo, but I thought he was mafia so I rolled again and got Peeps.
Sheikah Posted May 26, 2013 Posted May 26, 2013 I thought right from the game beginning that neither I nor Yvonne would survive the first night. We're the sort of type to be killed in a game where everyone has a kill, I think. :p
Yvonne Posted May 26, 2013 Posted May 26, 2013 Aye! that's why I played the way I did D1, I didn't really think I would be around for long
Sheikah Posted May 26, 2013 Posted May 26, 2013 I appeared equal parts terrorist and townie, apparently. Not sure how I did that. :p
The Peeps Posted May 26, 2013 Posted May 26, 2013 You all played exactly how I planned. It was tough to orchestrate this victory but I'm pleased I pulled it off. :p
Mr-Paul Posted May 26, 2013 Posted May 26, 2013 Really enjoyed this. Had no idea who was mafia on the first night so risked not killing anyone to up our chances, but turned out I was the only one left, you all went and killed each other, you were too eager to look town that you thought each other were town and shot each other :P Had to carry on the "I'm anti kill" act, and did actually consider not killing second night, but glad I did in the end, and thought if I was too anti-kill people would think I was mafia trying to act too innocent. I was hoping the last night that one of Diageo/Rummy would kill the other/each other, handing me the win, but even though they didn't, I was confident they suspect each other more than me that I could jump on any vote. Thanks for a good game everyone, a very different kind of game to we're used to on here, but I'm sure if we played a few more we'd get well into this no-info kind of thing.
Sheikah Posted May 26, 2013 Posted May 26, 2013 You all played exactly how I planned. It was tough to orchestrate this victory but I'm pleased I pulled it off. :p Yes. Definitely. The three way triangle of death (trademark) orchestrated on N1 was a necessary measure to ensure mr-paul could hide under the bloody carcasses we left behind for the remainder of the game. Classic tactic. Really enjoyed this. Had no idea who was mafia on the first night so risked not killing anyone to up our chances, but turned out I was the only one left, you all went and killed each other, you were too eager to look town that you thought each other were town and shot each other :P To be fair, N1 is the safest night to go on a mental killing spree, and I killed DuD. :p
Jonnas Posted May 26, 2013 Posted May 26, 2013 Had to carry on the "I'm anti kill" act, and did actually consider not killing second night, but glad I did in the end Well, I'm honoured I was your prime target, then It was actually a great plan, turning Rummy and Diageo against each other.
Sméagol Posted May 27, 2013 Author Posted May 27, 2013 So, my thoughts on the game. The original idea Not sure where it originated, as I’ve had it for quite some time. I think what started it was I wanted a way to have the mafia blend in with town perfectly. So I figured the best way to do that would be to have them play as individuals and not in a team. This way they are not burdened with team knowledge. I had this idea for my plans for my next normal game, but I thought it would be a bit too experimental for a normal game. I know some people like to be in the mafia exactly because they can play in a team. So then I mashed it up with another idea I had for something that wasn’t a mafia game (but was based on it, and you may get to see it some time), which was to give everybody a gun. This I thought, would make for a fun quick but high tension game. On the other hand, it would also be extremely hardcore, since there were no investigators (or any other abilities of any kind). This would bring mafia back to its core.. So I expected heated discussions, and high death tolls. I thought it would be fun to try out as an experimental game, so I did. Not in a team So the mafia were not in a team together. Like I said, the idea was for them to perfectly blend in with town. They lose the advantage of co-ordinating with each other, but they gain two advantages: more opportunities to kill, since everyone had the kill ability, and the perfect appearance of a townie. For all intents and purposes, they were a townie. - Same knowledge. - Same ability. - Same goal. You need to scumhunt as much as townies do, just for a different reason. Of course it’s that reason that’s the key to tell the difference between the two, which is why one of my tips was “motivations”. Lack of information It’s true, you didn’t get anything from me apart from how many shots were fired and the flips themselves. However, that doesn’t mean there’s no info at all. You just have to create it yourself. I was hoping for a bit more discussion. You really have to ask, why this? Why that? Why vote for him specifically? And so on. Day 1 was fun to read, there were things I hadn’t considered, but still I think there were plenty of other questions left to be asked. But I understand, this is incredibly hard to do (especially for us). In fact, I’m not sure if I would be any good at my own game . Anyway, the way I envisioned how this game should be played was discussions, bandwagons, and the analysis of those bandwagons when the lynch is finalised. This is why I didn’t recommend our traditional day 1 no lynch. You start out with no info, and get no info from me. With a no lynch on day 1, you start day 2 in the exact same position. This was my reasoning behind it. balance I personally think the balance was perfect, but how can it not be, without any power roles. Everybody has a gun. Everyone is equal. - Citizens have a high chance of shooting other Citizens. - Terrorrists have a low chance of hitting other terrorists, but they have an significant lower margin for error. - Furthermore, as Night 1 proves, chance can be weird sometimes :p. A gun for everyone Apart from balancing issues, I just thought it would be fun, and it would be the big difference with a “normal vanilla” game. Some people don’t like to be vanilla townies. In this game, even though in some way every Citizen is a vanilla townie, everyone has the potential of having an impact on the game every night. Skill vs. luck I’m convinced this game can be won with pure skill, or at least with much reduced luck, by lots of discussion. That said, I also know some people like the mafia games here for the ability interaction (I am actually one of them). That’s just the way things are done here, but I wanted to try out something different. However, that was also a reason I gave everyone a gun, if you weren’t interested in pure discussion alone, you could always act on your gut feeling every night. I didn’t mind either way. Minimal This was so much fun regarding the organisation. Nothing to worry about at all! No write-ups, no voting shenanigans, no complicated ability interactions! Laziest game set-up ever! :p The Jimbob factor I did not see that coming. I still think it’s a bit harsh, but on the other hand, it did add to the discussion on day 1. Considerations Since the set-up was so simple, there weren’t many things I (re)considered adding or removing. One thing I did seriously consider was not giving away the set-up. This was actually the plan right up till sign-ups. I thought the surprise factor would be fun, and it would make for some great day 2 discussion. Why so many deaths? And it could set up some people for the fall, as those who don’t realise the situation yet, could make claims they’ll regret shortly after. I decided against it in the end, because I wasn't sure how many people would be eager to pull the trigger when they’re not aware of the stakes. This game had the potential to end night 1, and if it did without everyone knowing the set-up, it would probably feel like a cop-out. When you all are aware of the stakes, it won’t come as an unpleasant surprise if it does happen. Something I also thought of last-minute (right before or right after the start of the game), was to give you all a tiny morsel of information in the form of how many shots were fired. I feel that was something I could part with, and in flavour of the game (the little flavour it had). It added to discussion, so it seems like a good idea. Something else I was thinking of right before night 1, was to give away who had killed who when someone died, so a list of his victims. I had no specific reason for deciding against it, but I thought I’d save it for a next game (if there’s going to be a next one ). In hindsight, I actually like the discussion and speculation about who killed who, so I think it worked out better this way. Originally, I actually considered just giving away who killed who explicitly in the write-up. It would be weird, but I thought it could work since everybody can kill, so there’s no way to distinguish town from mafia pure on the basis someone shot someone. However, I figured mafia had more incentive to kill someone (meaning a bigger chance that a killer is mafia), and I had absolutely no idea how eager townies would be, so it had to potential to work against the mafia. I decided not to take that risk. And in hindsight.. After a few nights this will only be worse for the mafia I realise now. Some posts from day 1 that caught my attention: [..]This game looks like it will require striking a strange balance between looking scummy enough not to be killed by the terrorists, but not scummy enough to be killed by the citizens. It’s so obvious now, but I didn’t realise before the game this would make it even harder! Everyone, Citizens or Terrorists, have to scumhunt. Both for different reasons. But you have to simultaneously stay off the radar of both the Terrorist and trigger happy Citizens! A fine balance indeed. [..]We might gain some info from day 1 voting if we didn't have the Jimbob paradigm.. There's 4 types of people voting Jimbob. 1) Sheep who don't look for things themselves and just follow majority. 2) People who would rather see an inactive go before someone who is willing to get involved. 3) People who are pissed off at his standard sign up and dissapear. 4) People that don't care about any of the above and realise that a lynch today is good. The above really kinda fucks with the voting pattern, and so doesn't help us scum hunt.. so we either get jimbobs death out of the way or we'll constantly have this situation for however long the game lasts (as Jimbob will remain an easy scum vote unless he actually shows up). Again, I didn’t expect the Jimbob factor or realise what an impact it would have on the game. DuD is spot on. At the time of post, Jimbob had 5 votes against him, of which only 1 was from a Terrorist.. Didn't say that, hand in a target and see what the result is. That's if i get a result, who knows could be blocked. Like I said, I think his treatment was a bit harsh, but this (and the following reactions) did make me laugh. My method means less statistical foolishness. Right now I suspect: Rummy Diageo Magnus Jimbob Do not suspect Peeps DuD Sheikah The rest, dunno Not planning to kill What is that based on? You could just be completely bullshitting to throw people off. Maybe in reality you're a terrorist and you're planning to kill a non-suspect :p Having said that, I pretty much agree with your list. I have no opinion on DuD and I think I suspect Cube a little. I actually thought Yvonne was bullshitting, and mixing the suspects and non-suspects. [..]because we all know nothing. [..] Rummy was one of the bigger complainers about the no info thing. Which is funny, as he was the first one (a few hours before the day deadline) to send in a target, and he kills Sheikah on first attempt! Next game? So I’d genuinely want to thank you all for partaking and enduring this experiment. I’d love to hear any comments you have, and I’d like to know if you found this a pleasant break from normal games and wouldn’t mind doing it again sometime, or if you say “never again!” The set-up is open, if anyone else wants to run with it, it’s fine with me. If I do run another HRHR mafia, I intend to keep it exactly the same probably, with the exception that I’ll let you customise your kills..!
The Peeps Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 I foreshadowed my own death, see? I really did have it all planned!
Yvonne Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 Yep, I didn't expect the mafia to play talkative and out in the open, all the while doing exactly that myself! Well at least Peeps and Sheikah caught on. I am so in for any game like this in the future
Mr-Paul Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 In terms of players, we had a really strong mafia. Yes, you all died first night, but I think the way you had all acted on first day, then flipped mafia, really threw the town. The town strongly believed that whoever killed Yvonne must have been a terrorist themself, which totally influenced the next couple of days (Cube killing Tales, then lynching Cube because he'd taken it into his own hands to find the mafia). This gave me an easy pass to stay in the background and carefully pick people off. You're right Jonnas, I chose to get rid of you because I felt you were less likey to get a bit hot-headed than the others, and when tension is running high, people make silly decisions. I've done it a lot in end-game situations as town myself, and I knew I needed to just wait for one of them to vote for the other, and that came really quickly. I did actually want to see a bit more arguing between the two of them, but I wasn't willing to take the risk, I just wanted to win :p
Rummy Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 This was a fantastic shake-up Smeagol, and I really enjoyed it. I hoped for a bit more discussion along the way, but the early parts were really good(the length of days, with the little info, was good). The fact you mention me sending my target so early - well, I wondered if you might have a priority of balancing mechanic - and I quite clearly stated what I believed people would do; I was basing it on myself! Genuinely didn't see Peeps and Yvonne being terrorists, but I assumed being the good players they are that they would kill. As for a target, I picked someone I felt would already be being shot - bit surprised it was just two of us though. Next game?So I’d genuinely want to thank you all for partaking and enduring this experiment. I’d love to hear any comments you have, and I’d like to know if you found this a pleasant break from normal games and wouldn’t mind doing it again sometime, or if you say “never again!” The set-up is open, if anyone else wants to run with it, it’s fine with me. If I do run another HRHR mafia, I intend to keep it exactly the same probably, with the exception that I’ll let you customise your kills..! How do you mean to customize kills? It's a nice formula for a game, though there's a small chance that everyone dies straight away and doesn't last long enough. It IS fun and low maintenance though, I'd consider using the base and throwing some other things in(I won't give them away yet ) but an example might be for the night - you find out the shots fired but also which side they came from.
Yvonne Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 The same game played again would be very different too. We know the shots fired would be included, and we have a whole thread of meta to work with. We could work out more of the implications. I think it would get yet deeper :inceptionface:
Sméagol Posted May 27, 2013 Author Posted May 27, 2013 [..]The fact you mention me sending my target so early - well, I wondered if you might have a priority of balancing mechanic [..] Yeah, looking back, I explicitly stated there was no such thing, but you had already sent your PM by then! How do you mean to customize kills? [..] Well: Casualty report The Peeps - terrorist - stabbed to death Yvonne - terrorist - beheaded by guillotine Sheikah - terrorist - eaten alive by rats / electrocuted Jon Dedede - citizen - thrown out of an airplane DuD - citizen - has been eaten by a grue In other words, you send your method of killing along with your target for added hilarity!
Diageo Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 Very well done mr-paul. You're play style was without fault, with the only reason I suspected you was because of killing patterns.
Cube Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 The town strongly believed that whoever killed Yvonne must have been a terrorist themself, which totally influenced the next couple of days (Cube killing Tales, then lynching Cube because he'd taken it into his own hands to find the mafia). The town? I took action myself because the town didn't seem interested in my idea.
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