Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 I hadn't commented on this yet since I don't really know much if anything about her or her role in British politics. I'm still not sure I do, but having read the articles about her, she frankly seems like an unlikeable character with horrible politics. I'm not going to celebrate her death, that just seems pointless and cold to me, but I'm not going to respect her just because she's dead, either. It's good to stick to what you believe is right and not be swayed merely by public opinion and popular morality; that shows strength of character. It shows stubbornness, pride and/or stupidity, however, to persist in the face of overwhelming valid criticism.
gaggle64 Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 It's good to stick to what you believe is right and not be swayed merely by public opinion and popular morality; that shows strength of character. It shows stubbornness, pride and/or stupidity, however, to persist in the face of overwhelming valid criticism. I think you've precisely identified the pivot point. The whole problem is we're not only still dealing with the effects of everything she did but things she set in motion that are still going, not just but especially under the current government. The debate over her legacy is indistinguishable from the argument over everything happening right now. Hence the "patriotic" military parade being organised while at the same time "Ding-Dong The Witch Is Dead" makes the Top 5.
sumo73 Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 I've already said what I wanted to say about Margaret Thatcher already so I don't need to say much more here. I remain neutral towards her and also to Tony Blair who was also someone who could have fitted into Dannyboy-the-Dane's earlier comments especially with the mess that we are still dealing with in the Middle East. We may blame her for things but I don't remember successive prime ministers/governments after her reversing her decisions which they could have done. I realise however that this is easier said than done. She was last in power back in 1990 and we need however difficult it is for some to move on. Someone recently said “…it is a mistake to allow her death to poison our minds”, so with that in mind let the funeral happen and by Thursday/Friday this week we will be talking and thinking about others things. Life is short and we should make the most of it while we can.
Cube Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 One thing I really don't get about all the current Thatcher hate and protests is... ...isn't it a bit late for that?
Agent Gibbs Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 One thing I really don't get about all the current Thatcher hate and protests is... ...isn't it a bit late for that? Very much so, there are lots of people out protesting and partying for the wrong reasons, acting like they are protesting someone who is still in power, perhaps they see the current government as her legacy and she is just the figure head, but this government has very different policies to Thatchers government and policies. As far as i can see people want to protest the mess society is in, and Thatcher and her death have become there scapegoat and this is very wrong and disrespectful to her and her family. The media is certainly right that it is is getting hijacked by anarchists, at least to an extent The only justified reason people could protest now in my view is against the publicly funded funeral (Thatcher planned her own funeral was this it? if so surely even she was planning to pay for her own) and the Tory/media pushing that she was loved by everyone and our greatest peacetime prime minister (which is certainly debatable) but even then i'm not sure i agree with protesting at her funeral, or certainly no where near the church and her families locations, if it were me i'd let her family and supporters have her day
Daft Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 One thing I really don't get about all the current Thatcher hate and protests is... ...isn't it a bit late for that? People don't suddenly hate her. They have hated her for a long time and will continue to hate her for a long time. You're just seeing hatred, that has been festering underneath, bubbling to the surface. The anarchists are probably the most justified lot; the whole system is hokum. I think it's appalling that people dismiss anarchism unquestioningly (I bet even reading that line will make some people roll their eyes). It's why we get people wondering why she is still blamed for things when successive leaders haven't fixed them, because the system is bent (and with this financial crisis that her deregulation set into motion, almost broken). She might have died, but a spectre is haunting Britain — the spectre of Thatcherism. 10 Internet points for the one who gets the Marx lulz.
Agent Gibbs Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 The system certainly is bent as no politician ever really reverses something a previous government introduces, they usually just alter it to fit their agenda, Tax is a typical one that never gets reversed (or in this case lowered) all they do is freeze it, or at the last minute not increase it - look at fuel duty its crippling the haulage industry yet it never lowers no matter which government is in power, it only increases less or stays the same the system is broken, and Thatcher was/is a figurehead for it, so its understandable all these issues are coming to a head and her death is a tipping point for some rightly or wrongly
MoogleViper Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 One thing I really don't get about all the current Thatcher hate and protests is... ...isn't it a bit late for that? Yeah, man. If only people had protested when she was still in power.
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 Yeah, man. If only people had protested when she was still in power. The point is that it's pointless to jump on the bandwagon and celebrate now when she hasn't had active influence on British politics in so many years. Opponents of Thatcher were right to celebrate when she left office; celebrating the death of an old woman, however, is pointless. Earlier I called it cold, but it's probably more accurate to say it's heated with hatred; the "cold" thing would be to acknowledge that her death is irrelevant to the political discussion.
MoogleViper Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 The point is that it's pointless to jump on the bandwagon and celebrate now when she hasn't had active influence on British politics in so many years. Opponents of Thatcher were right to celebrate when she left office; celebrating the death of an old woman, however, is pointless. Earlier I called it cold, but it's probably more accurate to say it's heated with hatred; the "cold" thing would be to acknowledge that her death is irrelevant to the political discussion. But they're not just jumping on a bandwagon. They've hated her for years, it's just that she's been brought back into the limelight now, and therefore back into daily conversation. You make it sound like people have only started hating her since she died.
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 But they're not just jumping on a bandwagon. They've hated her for years, it's just that she's been brought back into the limelight now, and therefore back into daily conversation. You make it sound like people have only started hating her since she died. Well, I think some people may very well have, though obviously many are simply talking about her again now that she has become relevant. But that's exactly my point: She hasn't been relevant for years. Absolutely nothing has changed politically with her death, yet people are celebrating as if a dictator had just been overthrown. Her reign, however influential, ended years ago. Why celebrate now?
Daft Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 It's a damning indictment of our 'democracy', that celebrating her death is the closest most people will get to social justice. She was a symbol of an absolutely reviled spate of politics; that the political class simply serve the interests of the capitalist elite. It is something that she initiated and, unless there is serious upheaval, we will never be able to undo.
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 That I agree with. I'm just far less interested in the person than the problems she was a symbol of.
yesteryeargames Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 (edited) Saw some of the protesting on the news, these people just look pathetic and im glad they got screwed over in the past. Im neither for or against her as i was too young to remember her properly, but i think you should at least on the day of someones funeral show a little respect. For example if i see a coffin drive by i stop for a moment and remove my hat if im wearing one, do i know this person, nope , could they have been an asshole maybe but i think everyone deserves a little respect in death. Edited April 17, 2013 by yesteryeargames
MoogleViper Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 Saw some of the protesting on the news, these people just look pathetic and im glad they got screwed over in the past. Just thought I'd highlight a few things. Don't mind me, do continue.
yesteryeargames Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 (edited) Just thought I'd highlight a few things. Don't mind me, do continue. What i meant was there was some really horrible people on the news, fake coffins and fireworks? , im sure there were lots of good people who got screwed over i feel bad for them, but the ones i saw on the news just looked like scummy pricks. Anyway shes nothing but dust now, i hope all the news dies down im sick of it tbh. Edited April 17, 2013 by yesteryeargames
MoogleViper Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 Anyway shes nothing but dust now, How come? Did somebody stake her?
yesteryeargames Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 maybe to save on the bills, im sure the funeral has already cost too much.
The fish Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 What i meant was there was some really horrible people on the news, fake coffins and fireworks? , im sure there were lots of good people who got screwed over i feel bad for them, but the ones i saw on the news just looked like scummy pricks. Horrible, lacking compassion and respect, and remorseless? Sounds just like her.
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