The fish Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 (edited) How are you so sure ghost sightings can always be explained by something else? Because to date no one has come up with any evidence to support the existence of ghosts beyond the notoriously unreliable and unscientific personal testimony. They don't need to be explained by anything - they could just be tricks of the light playing on the eye and mind. What needs to be explained is why anyone should believe in them. Evidence, please. Ghost hunters are in the same league as medians, astrologists, homoeopaths, priests, creationists and anti-vaccination folk. They're all harmless fools until they start asking to be taken seriously and/or for money. Then they need to all be put in one big sack, tired at the top and hit with a stick, and I don't care who gets the worst of it. Edited October 24, 2010 by The fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazza Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 That's not keeping an open mind, though - that's being gullible. Keeping an open mind is basing what you believe on what the current evidence tells us (namely, there are no ghosts), but being prepared to change when there is evidence for them. Well OK, but say you took a video camera into a house and definitely caught a ghost on camera - it wouldn't be evidence, because no one would believe it was genuine. Perhaps some of the existing evidence is real, but people's first assumption (including mine) is that it's a fake. Thus, they are impossible to prove for now. You'd know you'd seen one and you'd have all the sceptics telling you that you hadn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Well OK, but say you took a video camera into a house and definitely caught a ghost on camera - it wouldn't be evidence, because no one would believe it was genuine. Perhaps some of the existing evidence is real, but people's first assumption (including mine) is that it's a fake. Thus, they are impossible to prove for now. You'd know you'd seen one and you'd have all the sceptics telling you that you hadn't. The first resort of someone who knows they're wrong: "Everyone's against me!" I would agree that it would be frustrating, but, personally, they can believe they've seen what ever they want, right up until they start telling others what's real and what isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazza Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 why are you so quick to claim ghost when you don't know why something's happened? I'm not, I just don't rule it out. They don't need to be explained by anything - they could just be tricks of the light playing on the eye and mind. What needs to be explained is why anyone should believe in them. Evidence, please. Why don't you try to prove that "tricks of light" can create a ghost? Scientists have tried to recreate the conditions in which people can have a paranormal experience but, although they can make people feel strange, it is never anything clear or vivid. I would agree that it would be frustrating, but, personally, they can believe they've seen what ever they want, right up until they start telling others what's real and what isn't. That's what you're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diageo Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Well ghost footage is always shitty and looks the same. But if you had a nice little conversation with one. Or did some tests, it would at least be a bit more reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paj! Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 (edited) Also - Lisa Williams is my favourite woman. Her show is/was the very best. I love her bizarre body shape. I remember being like "OH I'm stunned" at this one. Edited October 24, 2010 by Paj! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diageo Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Also - Lisa Williams is my favourite woman. Her show is/was the very best. I love her bizarre body shape. I remember being like "OH I'm stunned" at this one. If the blonde woman is not an actor. I don't like when people pley with other people's emotions like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 In summary, for those who are just joining this thread: "I believe in/don't believe in ghosts. You disagree with me, therefore your opinion isn't valid and you're wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diageo Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 In summary, for those who are just joining this thread: "I believe in/don't believe in ghosts. You disagree with me, therefore your opinion isn't valid and you're wrong." It's not an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Why don't you try to prove that "tricks of light" can create a ghost? Scientists have tried to recreate the conditions in which people can have a paranormal experience but, although they can make people feel strange, it is never anything clear or vivid. That's what you're doing. Yeah, well, when they successfully recreate a paranormal experience by getting a ghost to show up, let me know! Um, no, not quite. I'm saying the reasons you're giving for why people shouldn't be so sceptical are invalid, not why ghosts don't exist (I'm not saying they don't, I'm saying there's no evidence for them). It's not an opinion. Indeed - reality is not determined by democratic process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayseven Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 UFO - I saw some object flying, and was unable to identify it. Ghost - I was half-asleep, so was probably 'still dreaming.' I'm totally cool with these things being explainable, normal things. The point is that the experience you go through is something that is hard to replicate. No matter how rational one can be, when confronted with something that is, at the time, utterly alien, it is hard not to go through a massive emotional freak-out. Suddenly you don't know how the world works. All the what if's explode in your mind and something very primal inside you shrieks and trembles, talks to you in a way that language cannot do. Then you have a cup of tea, calm down, and repeat that brainwashing mantra that you learnt when they told you santa wasn't real and took all the magic away, and go to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazza Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Um, no, not quite. I'm saying the reasons you're giving for why people shouldn't be so sceptical are invalid, not why ghosts don't exist (I'm not saying they don't, I'm saying there's no evidence for them). There's no "shouldn't" about it. I don't care if people are sceptical or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit-Jr Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 when they told you santa wasn't real WHAT??? Im devastated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 WHAT??? Im devastated Sorry dude, reality sucks sometimes... There's no "shouldn't" about it. I don't care if people are sceptical or not. So what you determine as being true or false in the universe is based entirely on what you've personally experienced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debug Mode Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Fuck the non-believers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazza Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 So what you determine as being true or false in the universe is based entirely on what you've personally experienced? In a word, yes. If I saw something, I wouldn't wait for other people to do so before I'd believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diageo Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Would you not question others to see if your perception of said "something" is correct? And then do some tests to make sure it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 No, I don't believe in God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 In a word, yes. If I saw something, I wouldn't wait for other people to do so before I'd believe it. Would you accept the possibility that you're not actually the first person every to have experienced a new phenomena and were just simply mistaken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazza Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Would you not question others to see if your perception of said "something" is correct? And then do some tests to make sure it is? If possible, yes, but I am rational enough to look for all the explanations myself - hallucinations, dreams, light, shadow. Let's put it another way - if, in 2000 years, scientists prove ghosts (or whatever) exist, should people who have seen them only start to believe in them because the experts gave them permission to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diageo Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Well yes, because then there is proof. Conclusive, scientifically tested proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazza Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Would you accept the possibility that you're not actually the first person every to have experienced a new phenomena and were just simply mistaken? Well wait a minute, a "new phenomenon" is just as interesting as a "ghost" and can't be explained by existing phenomena. I never said what ghosts actually are, remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Let's put it another way - if, in 2000 years, scientists prove ghosts (or whatever) exist, should people who have seen them only start to believe in them because the experts gave them permission to? Talk about missing the point! You're sounding like a Creationist! People are welcome to believe in whatever fairy stories they want. They just can't expect others to take them seriously (or not treat their claims with scepticism) without evidence, especially when the claims would require a serious rewriting of a lot of physics, chemistry and biology text books. Well wait a minute, a "new phenomenon" is just as interesting as a "ghost" and can't be explained by existing phenomena. I never said what ghosts actually are, remember. How does that effect what I'm saying in anyway what so ever? What's to rule out you're mistaken, especially when everything else suggests that you are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Peeps Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 I don't believe in ghosts or any of that. The stories people come out with make me laugh though. There's always a loud noise or a creak or laughter or something like that. Because obviously if ghosts existed the first thing they'd do is bang against a wall for no reason in the middle of the night. Oh and only once. Ever. What do people believe ghosts are though? Are they some kind of separate entity from humans or are they humans/animals that have died and become ghosts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazza Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Talk about missing the point! You're sounding like a Creationist! People are welcome to believe in whatever fairy stories they want. They just can't expect others to take them seriously (or not treat their claims with scepticism) without evidence, especially when the claims would require a serious rewriting of a lot of physics, chemistry and biology text books. No, no. I don't expect ghosts to be taught as real, nor do I expect people to believe in them. Education should be about what is scientifically proven. My point is people who have seen them don't have to believe they're deluded just because science hasn't been able to prove it yet. It is incredibly naive to think there are no phenomena we don't yet know about or understand. Maybe, just maybe, some people were closer to the truth than the sceptics, but you'd rather bury your head in the sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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