Tuition Fees

[Daft]

Students face unlimited fees

 

 

Browne said: "Our higher education system is world-renowned, but too often it enshrines the power of universities and not the power of students. These reforms will put students in the driving seat of a revolutionary new system.

 

"Under these plans universities can start to vary what they charge but it will be up to students whether they choose the university. The money will follow the student, who will follow the quality. The student is no longer taken for granted; the student is in charge.

 

"We have been guided by three principles: participation, quality and sustainability."

 

There is pretty much nothing good about this. I do Social Anthropology and our department was rated third in the country just behind Oxbridge so it isn't bad and even I honestly think my 8 contact hours a week is barely worth the current £3,290 a year. Had the fees been more I don't know what I would have done.

 

What's everyone else's thoughts?

[Supergrunch]

This is pretty rubbish, even though it doesn't affect me now I'm a graduate. Someone needs to classify linguistics as a science so it gets more funding...

[Nicktendo]

So terribly glad I didn't vote Lib Dem now, they've completely let down the students they claimed to represent.

 

Complete sell-outs.

 

How the government can possibly imagine that this will 'bridge the gap' between inequality and allow people from poorer homes to get to uni is a complete joke. All it's going to do is make choice come down to a cheap or expensive uni, and the richest will have the most choice in this situation.

 

Typical Conservative policy with no regard for actually addressing the systematic problems with the current system. I would hate to be 16 right now.

[Wesley]

This was just a review...

 

Started by Labour?

 

So... the Lib Dems haven't actually done anything wrong.

 

Yet.

[Will]

I'm not entirely sure how it works now as I graduated a few years ago, but don't all the tuition fees get added on to your student loan now? So you don't actually have to be rich to go in the first place, you just have to pay back more at the end?

 

Seems fine to me that you pay more if you want to go to a better place. You'll get a better job at the end (in theory) if you do.

 

The whole system needs a shakeup anyway, unless you want to go into a profession like medicine or law university is often a waste of time from an educational point of view.

[Debug Mode]

My university (Liverpool John Moores(Yes the shit one)), always charges the maximum for their courses, so I'm intrigued to see how they actually value these courses..

 

Cause I value it less than the current cap. For like the first time ever, I think this year saw no courses go through to clearing (I may be wrong), but the courses did all fill up with applicants. I'm in the 2nd year of my course, and we have the problem of never having rooms big enough for the module groups. One of my International Business modules has the most ridiculous situation, a room designated for capacity of 30 people for safety reasons, for the 55 people enrolled on the module. The tutorial that follows the next day has the same problem, but not as bad.

 

Students called the year before I started for an improved library. Comparing my open day to the day I could go in it as a student (it was delayed for a month), they really did improve it, but there were less computers than before. The bulk of money had been spent on swervy tables and large areas that the Student Union could have done with, at the expense of more computers and a larger resource collection.

 

Not worth what I'm paying to be honest. The teaching is good but is pretty much gimped due to the problems in my campus and library.

[jayseven]

It'll alleviate the unemployment levels, apparently!

 

The idea is that currently we have a substantial amount of people with degrees unable to find work, i.e. we've 'trained' too many people. By reducing the appeal of uni we can reduce this dole queue, while at the same time profiteering greatly from increased student loans, with the hope that the university system itself finds its balance of economy.

 

Utter, utter, utter bullshit. With a grain of sense.

 

... just noticed the TIEM so I cannot continue this overworded essay.

[Supergrunch]

It'll alleviate the unemployment levels, apparently!

 

The idea is that currently we have a substantial amount of people with degrees unable to find work, i.e. we've 'trained' too many people. By reducing the appeal of uni we can reduce this dole queue, while at the same time profiteering greatly from increased student loans, with the hope that the university system itself finds its balance of economy.

 

Utter, utter, utter bullshit. With a grain of sense.

 

... just noticed the TIEM so I cannot continue this overworded essay.

A better solution would be to increase the quality and reduce the quantity of degree courses, without changing the price. But nobody wants to do that...

[Will]

A better solution would be to increase the quality and reduce the quantity of degree courses, without changing the price. But nobody wants to do that...

 

Well it wouldn't work would it.

 

Increase quality - Cost up

Reduce quantity - Income down

Price - has to go up.

[MoogleViper]

I had dinner with some professors from my course on friday and one of them said that something like this would happen.

[Supergrunch]

Well it wouldn't work would it.

 

Increase quality - Cost up

Reduce quantity - Income down

Price - has to go up.

Sell off now useless universities? Loads of money was wasted creating more universities than are/were necessary.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

This is pretty rubbish, even though it doesn't affect me now I'm a graduate. Someone needs to classify linguistics as a science so it gets more funding...

I do often get the feeling that social sciences aren't taken as seriously as natural science.

[ipaul]

I do often get the feeling that social sciences aren't taken as seriously as natural science.

 

I agree with the general sentiment. Anything but hard sciences or something like Economics tend to be slightly looked down upon as slightly useless. No one even has any respect for Literature :P

 

As for the plans to raise tuition fees....I'm terribly saddened by it. Not surprised by any means, but surely there's a better solution to all of this. I think there needs to be more options than university. The idea that half the population should go to uni was always madness.

 

Oh, and the Lib Dems can go fuck themselves, hate myself for voting for them.

[Supergrunch]

I do often get the feeling that social sciences aren't taken as seriously as natural science.

Well, they're not natural sciences, they're social sciences, which of course should also get funding and so on, but aren't the same kind of thing. Linguistics can be a social science, a natural science, a formal science, or a humanity depending on how you approach it though.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Well, they're not natural sciences, they're social sciences, which of course should also get funding and so on, but aren't the same kind of thing. Linguistics can be a social science, a natural science, a formal science, or a humanity depending on how you approach it though.

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say with your first sentence.

[gaggle64]

I suppose they've got the additional bursaries & increased loan caps for the less well off and the increase of the level when graduates stat paying money back. Generally though I'm not a fan of the "free market" ideal that the country as a whole has slid so far into over the last twenty years that we seem happy to chuck everything into it's gaping maw. I hope in the future, at some point after the current government, to see an evolution into a modern European style tax & spend philosophy with long term reinvestment in higher education services. A more diverse set of services too rather pandering to some vague desire to set up more universities then anybody actually needs.

[Twozzok]

You fail to mention if it's over £6k the university gets its funding reduced so I imagine most will stick to that figure [edit: and the fact they'd increase the amount you have to be earning before you tstart to pay it back]. It's still double the current amount, but loans will cover that and who really considers student loans as reaaal debts anyways :/

[The Lillster]

I am currently working on getting into University and what scares me is that I won't be able to get a job in either IT or the Games industry as a Programmer.

 

If I can't get the job I desire, then I'm going to be in a huge amount of debt.

 

A bit off topic but I understand there are some forum goers on here that are knowledgeable on the games industry and was wondering if someone could answer a few questions for me:

 

I am interested in doing games programming at Derby University: search for it on http://www.derby.ac.uk. However I have been reading these sort of courses aren't always a good idea and a lot of developers prefer a Degree in Computer Science, is this still true?

Edited October 12, 2010 by The Lillster

[Twozzok]

I am currently working on getting into University and what scares me is that I won't be able to get a job in either IT or the Games industry as a Programmer.

 

If I can't get the job I desire, then I'm going to be in a huge amount of debt.

 

That you won't have to pay off until you get a decent job anyways.

[The Lillster]

That you won't have to pay off until you get a decent job anyways.

 

If I never get a decent job, does that mean I will never have to pay it back?

[Eenuh]

I know I've said this before but yeah, I don't get why it's so expensive to study in the UK or the USA?

 

Over here you pay something like € 565 for uni/college/whatever per year. Or if your parents don't earn enough it can even be less: € 375 or € 80. So three different fees, but none even close to what you seem to have to pay in the UK.

 

So universities get to pick their fees there? Does it not discourage people that the fees are so high? Or does pretty much everyone get a student loan anyway?

[Raining_again]

If I never get a decent job, does that mean I will never have to pay it back?

 

Do you want to have a shit job, living on the edge of not paying your bills, forever? I think thats the idea behind it.

 

Uni... in the majority... is a crock load of shit. People should learn most things from apprenticeship based things rather than sitting in a lecture hall (and that's even if said students can be bothered to go)

 

It seems to me that uni is more a lesson on life; partying, scrounging by on hardley any money, learning to live by yourself, and having to organise various things for yourself!

[The Lillster]

Do you want to have a shit job, living on the edge of not paying your bills, forever? I think thats the idea behind it.

 

Uni... in the majority... is a crock load of shit. People should learn most things from apprenticeship based things rather than sitting in a lecture hall (and that's even if said students can be bothered to go)

 

It seems to me that uni is more a lesson on life; partying, scrounging by on hardley any money, learning to live by yourself, and having to organise various things for yourself!

 

Well all decent jobs in IT and games programming i've looked have required a University Degree even if you have similar experience but I understand what you're saying.

Edited October 12, 2010 by The Lillster

[Ashley]

I know I've said this before but yeah, I don't get why it's so expensive to study in the UK or the USA?

 

Over here you pay something like € 565 for uni/college/whatever per year. Or if your parents don't earn enough it can even be less: € 375 or € 80. So three different fees, but none even close to what you seem to have to pay in the UK.

 

So universities get to pick their fees there? Does it not discourage people that the fees are so high? Or does pretty much everyone get a student loan anyway?

 

Pure conjecture: the English university system is one of the oldest/most prestigious in the world. They can ride that tide to justification it seems. But that's just my theory that is probably wrong.

 

This in particular annoyed me:

 

"Under these plans universities can start to vary what they charge but it will be up to students whether they choose the university. The money will follow the student, who will follow the quality. The student is no longer taken for granted; the student is in charge.

 

Because everyone has bottomless pockets? Now more than ever if different courses costs different amounts at different universities then a lot of people are going to have to have to go the cheap route (Easyjet University here I come!). Yes, the loan covers it (if the Student Loan Company stop being so shit at doing their jobs) but I'd suspect a lot of people would rather not have a tens of thousands of pounds debt.

[Raining_again]

Well all decent jobs in IT and games programming i've looked have required a University Degree even if you have similar experience.

 

oh yeah I totally agree... hell one of our entry level I.T jobs required one.. 13k pay. ENTRY LEVEL. It's just insane.. Its their way of trying to determine who has some sort of vague level of intelligence.

 

Jobs should be based on experience.. I don't think a degree course teaches you anywhere near enough to know how to manage corporate severs and design programs and stuff in their environment.

 

It seems to me, much like college (only a higher level obviously) that scenarios and tasks are based on a sandbox environment where nothing can possibly go wrong. And the fact is 99% of people can get a minimum pass in a degree if they work hard enough, and get help from tutors.. They don't want to see people fail, even the ones who have no interest or no clue. When I was in college they nearly did the assignment for you! It's all about passing criteria, whether you get the concept or not.

 

The real world is a hell of a different place! Imo it should be a whole lot more about taking apprentices on at low pay rates and them being able to gain exp and increasing salary as they become more capable. In three years of employment you can learn so so so much more than you ever would in uni..