[SPOILERS!!] The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[Captain Falcon]

I'm pretty sure one of the instructors said the thundercloud "appeared", meaning it wasn't always there.

 

In that case, I guess they really couldn't do much with it then.

 

EDIT: just took a look at the game script and it says

 

"I imagine in your travels you've taken notice of the tremendous thunderhead that suddenly appeared in our skies"

 

I which case, I think they should have gone with it always being there. And if not, they could have had it been an open sky to begin with and then part way through the game a big inpenetrable cloud appears. You later gain access to inside to see that big section of the earth has risen into the sky. It could be like Demise's/Girahim's version of skyloft as they look for the triforce.

 

I just feel like there must be something more they could have done with the sky section than what was there.

 

The level design for the bits below the clouds were great so it pained me to have to keep on popping above them because of the game design.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Captain Falcon

[Ronnie]

Did anyone else have a lump in their throat when Fi said goodbye to Link at the end? That hit me far more than Midna going through the mirror. I think the fact that they made Fi so cold and calculating throughout the game, only made her 'emotional' parting with Link all the more powerful. Going back to Link never looking so expressive, you could tell he was on the verge of tears, which I thought was very well done.

 

Some might see that as nitpicking but I don't.

 

To me it just seems like extremely trivial aspects of the game to argue about but oh well. The thunderhead as you rightly point out, was very lazily implemented. big anticlimax and the Isle of Songs was a little meh, apart from how you got in.

[Ramar]

Finished the game today. Amazing. After Twilight Princess I worried about this game. However Nintendo have pulled through, loved almost every step of the way (except the part where you lose all your gear and have to sneak about and those damned spirit tests).

 

The final battle is far too easy in my opinion, but still enjoyable.

 

One thing that did annoy me (not to do with the game) is that I played most of the game on 50Hz. Usually my Wii is downstairs but I moved it to my room to play through Zelda, however I forgot to change my Wii's tv settings. I played through the majority of the game thinking the graphics were a blurry haze mess. Only for me to look at the settings this afternoon and change it to 60Hz. Just in time for the brilliant graphics at the end.

 

I don't think I'll be doing a Wind Waker and doing 3 straight playthroughs. However I might be tempted to play this again some time.

[Ronnie]

^ funny, I thought the bit where you have to sneak around Eldin Volcano collecting your gear was a highlight of the game. The whole atmosphere and mood of that sequence was fantastic I thought.

 

On an unrelated note, apparently the cutscenes where Link goes down stairs before each dungeon was a homage to how he did the same in LOZ on the NES

 

I was also convinced there'd be an aerial part of the Demise battle on your loftwing but I guess not.

[Beverage]

^Likewise. The spirit tests were epic and tense. It literally felt like you were growing with Link, like the player was gradually becoming the Hero!

 

I definitely thought there'd be more fond memories with the Loftwing. :p

[Grazza]

The level design for the bits below the clouds were great so it pained me to have to keep on popping above them because of the game design.

 

It's funny, I feel the complete opposite. It's as though the bits above the cloud represented everything I like about Zelda and the bits below... well, found a way to be worse than has ever been in the series before.

 

Imagine this (for what I think would have been a better game): completely remove Faron Woods, Eldin Volcano and Lanaryu Desert. Scale up the sky to the size of Wind Waker's Great Sea, and have Link just drop into the dungeons from above. You could still have the same story, just with Fi telling you there are six locations (dungeons) you have to visit.

 

Obviously, to compensate for this there would be more islands in the sky - a comparable amount to Wind Waker. It's not that I want every Zelda to be like WW, it's just that they seemed to go with a similar theme, but didn't go the whole way.

 

And Link's relationship with his Loftwing - one of the best things, if not the best, about Skyward Sword. But no, they really can't fly at night and they really can't go below the clouds - it wasn't just a storytelling device. It was genuinely a good idea to have a flying mount, and so I would like to have had that involved in more of the game. Not for normal dungeon bosses, but the final boss could have been above the clouds.

 

I should say the Levias fight was one of my highlights: dropping onto him and fighting the parasite.

[Ronnie]

Imagine this (for what I think would have been a better game): completely remove Faron Woods, Eldin Volcano and Lanaryu Desert. Scale up the sky to the size of Wind Waker's Great Sea, and have Link just drop into the dungeons from above. You could still have the same story, just with Fi telling you there are six locations (dungeons) you have to visit.

 

So basically, Wind Waker 2, up in the sky?

 

The sky was disappointing I thought. Sailing in Wind Waker I enjoyed a lot, but flying just felt like a chore in this game.

[Magnus]

Saying you like the sky and then saying you want it to be almost completely different (I think most people would like it more if there were more things to see there) seems kind of silly.

 

I thought the sky was disappointing. You've seen everything it has to offer within ten minutes, save for the thunderhead, and that's mostly empty, anyway.

 

There's almost no sense of exploration because most islands are either completely empty or have locked chests on them, and you can't even open those until they get marked out on the map.

[Captain Falcon]

It's funny, I feel the complete opposite. It's as though the bits above the cloud represented everything I like about Zelda and the bits below... well, found a way to be worse than has ever been in the series before.

 

The thing I love most about Zelda games is the traversal of the overworld - getting from one place to another and seeing the sights. Wind Waker sucked every possible drop of joy out of this as the novelty wore off because it took a god's age to get anywhere and there was nothing to see along the way.

 

Here, the overworld is above the clouds and I'm sure if I position myself correcty, I could make it so that I could every single thing in the sky on my screen at once. Thunderhead aside, which I've already blasted to bits, there is no sense of wonder at what is behind that corner, over that ridge, in that gully.

 

The section below the clouds does this. But there is a problem, these sections are very "level" like in design. They are structed in an obvious way that makes progress incredibly linear. In some ways, it reminds me of Metroid and in particular Prime 3. Now that is a good thing because they were very well designed and this is too. The problem is, it's not terribly Zelda like. Zeldas typically have you wandering the main field a lot but sparring mandatory visits to the off shoots which in turn keeps them feeling fresh. Consequently, the constant retracing of your steps becomes a bit tiresome because you are repeating the same deliberate actions over and over. It's most notable in the Woods and Volcano - the Desert gets away with it by providing plenty of new things to see whereas they do not.

 

I chalk that up to the level design not really being fit for the purpose of the game design. But for the first shot through, the below clouds section are as intelligently desiged as any dungeon in the game. They just begain to strain by the third run through.

[Grazza]

The section below the clouds does this. But there is a problem, these sections are very "level" like in design. They are structed in an obvious way that makes progress incredibly linear. In some ways, it reminds me of Metroid and in particular Prime 3. Now that is a good thing because they were very well designed and this is too. The problem is, it's not terribly Zelda like. Zeldas typically have you wandering the main field a lot but sparring mandatory visits to the off shoots which in turn keeps them feeling fresh. Consequently, the constant retracing of your steps becomes a bit tiresome because you are repeating the same deliberate actions over and over. It's most notable in the Woods and Volcano - the Desert gets away with it by providing plenty of new things to see whereas they do not.

 

Yes, I totally agree.

 

Oh well, I think we're all waiting to see what an HD console can do for Hyrule. Wide, sun-kissed fields. Deep, dense forests. Villages hidden up in the hills. A massive castle to explore. Tree-lined, snow-capped mountains with snowboarding courses weaving down them...

 

(I'd still like a proper, sea-bound Wind Waker 2 one day though .)

[Ronnie]

I don't see what HD will add to a Zelda game apart visual eye candy, and the visuals were stunning in Skyward Sword. The above just sounds like Twilight Princess.

 

They are structed in an obvious way that makes progress incredibly linear. In some ways, it reminds me of Metroid and in particular Prime 3. Now that is a good thing because they were very well designed and this is too. The problem is, it's not terribly Zelda like.

 

Firstly, the fact that it's 'not terribly Zelda-like', after 25 years is a good thing IMO. And second, areas in prior Zelda games are 10x more linear than the areas in Skyward Sword. The latter's regions are more like mini overworlds without any linearity whatsoever. They're designed beautifully and the attention to detail is fantastic. They're far more open ended than Zora's River > Zora's Domain in OOT, or the forest bit in TP for example. Even the areas in Majora's Mask were basically a straight line that you went through then reached a dungeon at the end.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Ronnie

[Captain Falcon]

Yes, I totally agree.

 

Oh well, I think we're all waiting to see what an HD console can do for Hyrule. Wide, sun-kissed fields. Deep, dense forests. Villages hidden up in the hills. A massive castle to explore. Tree-lined, snow-capped mountains with snowboarding courses weaving down them...

 

(I'd still like a proper, sea-bound Wind Waker 2 one day though .)

 

I've not got round to Skyrim yet but if the next Zelda has an overworld that even comes close to the scope of Oblivion, I wouldn't even care if it had no dungeons.

 

I'm not toally against a sea like element to a Zelda game as long as there is a substantial landmass to go with it. Also, I'd like to see some proper ship based combat at some point - I want to use the grabble hook to swing from one ship to another like a pirate :p

[Grazza]

"HD" is basically shorthand for being on an Xbox 360 or PS3-quality console (like the Wii U, hopefully). It should allow a heck of a lot more improvements than just graphics.

 

I've not got round to Skyrim yet but if the next Zelda has an overworld that even comes close to the scope of Oblivion, I wouldn't even care if it had no dungeons.

 

Exactly, this is the thing.

 

I'm not toally against a sea like element to a Zelda game as long as there is a substantial landmass to go with it. Also, I'd like to see some proper ship based combat at some point - I want to use the grabble hook to swing from one ship to another like a pirate :p

 

I reckon Dragon Quest has always got it right, by using continents. You start on a certain land mass, then gain access to others by boat later on. This way, you can have small islands combined with some very large land masses.

[Captain Falcon]

Firstly, the fact that it's 'not terribly Zelda-like', after 25 years is a good thing IMO. And second, areas in prior Zelda games are 10x more linear than the areas in Skyward Sword. The latter's regions are more like mini overworlds without any linearity whatsoever. They're designed beautifully and the attention to detail is fantastic. They're far more open ended than Zora's River > Zora's Domain in OOT, or the forest bit in TP for example. Even the areas in Majora's Mask were basically a straight line that you went through then reached a dungeon at the end.

 

I think it's a good thing too. Perhaps I used the word "problem" without considering how it might come across. Rather, I mean, that's why they feel different.

 

I see the regions as expanded dungeons rather than mini overworlds. You follow the path until you come to a puzzle that then opens up more of the path and so on until you get to the dungeon.

 

The volcano area felt particularly rigid having no open spaces whilst you wander paths barely large enough to swing you sword in a fixed manner to get from point A to B. There are a couple of shortcuts but they don't change the path and take you somewhere new, they just cut out the loops you were forced to follow before.

 

With regards to OoT, there is a certainly leeway afforded by the console but I felt I had more choice in how I navigated the world. Area's had multiple entry/exit points and linked to others too that you might not realise. The interconnected areas helped to create a world ripe for exploration.

 

Zora's River connects to the Domain and Field, but also the woods and the Domain connects to the lake. Then there is Ocarina warping too. In this game, you either drop right at the save point or you follow the only path that exists from the point you did land to get to your location.

 

The first visit tends to be linear, but then you get legitimate choices instead of the fake ones here.

 

Whilst you are limited in terms of the North/South/East/West parts of MM, once you get to them, you generally have a couple of areas within and you have to explore between them to get to the dungeon. They felt designed to be walked around in. These feel designed to be walked through... but only the once.

 

I'm sure at some point we are just going to have to agree to disagree :p

[Ronnie]

I think it's a good thing too. Perhaps I used the word "problem" without considering how it might come across. Rather, I mean, that's why they feel different.

 

I see the regions as expanded dungeons rather than mini overworlds. You follow the path until you come to a puzzle that then opens up more of the path and so on until you get to the dungeon.

 

The volcano area felt particularly rigid having no open spaces whilst you wander paths barely large enough to swing you sword in a fixed manner to get from point A to B. There are a couple of shortcuts but they don't change the path and take you somewhere new, they just cut out the loops you were forced to follow before.

 

With regards to OoT, there is a certainly leeway afforded by the console but I felt I had more choice in how I navigated the world. Area's had multiple entry/exit points and linked to others too that you might not realise. The interconnected areas helped to create a world ripe for exploration.

 

Zora's River connects to the Domain and Field, but also the woods and the Domain connects to the lake. Then there is Ocarina warping too. In this game, you either drop right at the save point or you follow the only path that exists from the point you did land to get to your location.

 

The first visit tends to be linear, but then you get legitimate choices instead of the fake ones here.

 

Whilst you are limited in terms of the North/South/East/West parts of MM, once you get to them, you generally have a couple of areas within and you have to explore between them to get to the dungeon. They felt designed to be walked around in. These feel designed to be walked through... but only the once.

 

I'm sure at some point we are just going to have to agree to disagree :p

 

We should probably agree to disagree now then haha.

 

I don't understand this idea that the three areas are expanded dungeons, I just don't get why people keep saying that. They behave pretty much exactly like the wide expansive areas of other games. Why wasn't Ikana Canyon or Snowpeak mountain in Twilight Princess considered an 'expanded dungeon'? Personally I find the whole 'dungeons that feel part of the landscape' total bollocks. Snowpeak mansion, City in the Sky or the Goron Mines felt far more organic than the ones here.

 

I still see the three areas as mini overworlds, a main part in the middle, that you run around in doing some exploring/speaking to natives etc, that then branch off into lots of sub-areas in different directions (sealed grounds, the tree, the deep woods, the fire sanctuary, lake floria, the waterfall, the mining facility, temple of time, gorge, sand sea etc). Granted though, the volcano area is pretty linear, but you were always going to get that when the purpose was to scale up the side of a volcano.

[killer kirby]

They were saying how they want to shake up the Zelda franchise, and it's getting their slowly little by little, I mean, I think Nintendo tried all they could to see if they could allow Link to just jump from the sky wherever and land, but I guess the Wii limited the chance of that happening. It's also great how Nintendo are trying to give us bosses outside of the temples, it might be the same one like the demise, but it's a start. Would be fun to hear something like in the next game you fight a giant boss first at the entrance to get into the temple and then you go through the temple to the end and get what you want.

 

I really hope they do that again, like in Minish Cap, going through a whole dungeon only to be told that they moves to another dungeon. It wasn't the same old, find key, enter dungeon, solve 3 puzzles, fight boss. Rinse repeat. Or have find a new town and you learn that half of it's a town and the other it's a temple.

[Ronnie]

They were saying how they want to shake up the Zelda franchise, and it's getting their slowly little by little, I mean, I think Nintendo tried all they could to see if they could allow Link to just jump from the sky wherever and land, but I guess the Wii limited the chance of that happening. It's also great how Nintendo are trying to give us bosses outside of the temples, it might be the same one like the demise, but it's a start. Would be fun to hear something like in the next game you fight a giant boss first at the entrance to get into the temple and then you go through the temple to the end and get what you want.

 

I really hope they do that again, like in Minish Cap, going through a whole dungeon only to be told that they moves to another dungeon. It wasn't the same old, find key, enter dungeon, solve 3 puzzles, fight boss. Rinse repeat. Or have find a new town and you learn that half of it's a town and the other it's a temple.

 

Totally agree with all that, that's the sort of thing to keep things fresh. There was also the battle on the Wind dragon's back in the thunderhead, more bosses outside of dungeons please Nintendo :-)

 

I also loved the bit you mention in Minish Cap where you reached a dead end at the end of a dungeon, it's great to mix things up like that. They sort of did the same here with the desert area looking for the Sand ship though but it wasn't quite the same thing.

[Brussel]

I just completed the game today. Not much about it I didn't enjoy. It took me awhile to get used to flying and sometimes flying around dragged on a bit. Other than that I enjoyed this much more than Twlight Princess.

 

It is certainly the best game the Wii has offered us in awhile.

[Sméagol]

Got this for Christmas, so I can finally share my experiences (damn, and it’s the first new game in quite a while by the way). Anyway, since I’m not finished yet, I’ll skip reading all the posts, glancing over the last few I see they contain plenty I don’t want to know .. Just a few quick thoughts, I’ll probably “review†the game more thoroughly when I’ve finished it.

 

Although overall I’m enjoying this much, this Zelda seems to have more annoying things and flaws in it than previous (console) Zeldas (as I didn’t enjoy the last 2 DS Zeldas as much as the console games). The game is an obvious amalgamationn of elements of various Zelda games. While most are welcome, others aren’t, and some are poorly implemented, and then there are some elements obviously missing (or I haven’t encountered them yet, but at this point, I don’t think I’ll see another village anymore for example..). For example, the sky seems to be a poor successor to Wind Waker’s sea. From my quick glance above I saw this was already discussed. It’s a shame, because the bird makes navigating the sky more managable than navigating the sea in Wind Waker’s sailboat. But there’s not much to do or to see, so just like Wind Waker, simply moving from one place to another becomes a chore. I also think the controls are inefficient. I don’t hate motion controls (mind, I’ve never played Twilight Princess on Wii), but it really feels to me they could have been optimised by a large margin. Some things the motion(+) controls are excellent for, obviously the sword slashing, and the whip, but I don’t get why they didn’t use the pointer for the obvious things like the slingshot, bow, and hookshot. Constant recentering is annoying. And especially while swimming I’d like some more precise controls, I’m swimming like some drunk idiot. Then there are minor things, like the trials, which I hate, and that guy on fun fun island. Must be the worst character in Zelda history. Luckily I managed to get the heartpiece before I ran out of money, now I won’t have to return to it untill Nintendo releases a patch where you can stab him in the head and murder him.

 

But. Plenty of things I do like. Love the artwork, love the music. Loving the story, it’s just fun to see a time before Hyrule, knowing where things are going. I really like how this game manages to represent an era long before Ocarina of time, yet it shows glimpses of a time even longer ago, filled with ancient technology. I’m enjoying the dungeons (and the mini dungeons leading up to them), and the Lanayru desert and its dungeons are so far the highlight for me. Loved the mining facility and its mechanic, and loved the pirate ship as well. The boss in the Lake Hylia Floria temple was awesome. Ghirahim is shaping up to be a cool enemy. What I think I love most though, is how the game finally got rid of the easy mode for a change, although most of it has to do with the controls. I died at my first Deku Baba encounter, for fuck’s sake! Then again, I had 2 hearts to start with, I lost some while flying in the sky because of some Octoroks (?). The first boss fight (Ghirahim) was also pretty tough, considering he was pulling his punches. Anyway, the swordbattles really make you work this time, even for common enemies, certainly a good thing in my eyes.

 

Anyway, I’m glad to have a new game to distract me from.. other things. I couldn’t play as much as I’d like to / used to. I think I’ve done 5 main dungeons now? The last one was the pirate ship. I’m currently about to start the third trial, and I did some side stuff before that. I’ve fully upgraded everything there was to upgrade so far, collected all the “sky chests†available, and did some stuff for some of the NPC’s. Which reminds me.. Does the Karane (?) and Pipit thing have some alternative outcome? I actually gave Cawlin’s letter to her, and now the “restroom woman†is gone. She sure sounded disappointed. Anyway, I’m putting off the third trial, I have other stuff to do. Which I can do while enjoying the awesome soundtrack. I’ll make another post when I’m finished with it.

[Magnus]

Which reminds me.. Does the Karane (?) and Pipit thing have some alternative outcome? I actually gave Cawlin’s letter to her, and now the “restroom woman†is gone. She sure sounded disappointed.

If you give the letter to the bathroom hand, she will stalk Cawlin at night and turn him into an emotional wreck.

 

It's very satisfying.

 

The reward is the same, though.

[Diageo]

Yeah. I enjoyed that too.

[Sméagol]

If you give the letter to the bathroom hand, she will stalk Cawlin at night and turn him into an emotional wreck.

 

It's very satisfying.

 

The reward is the same, though.

So in your game, Karane and Pipit aren’t together? That seems like the worst outcome though. In my game, they are (aww), Karane rejects Cawlin, and he’s an emotional wreck in my game as well . The cantine woman now complains that, though the wailing from the restroom has stopped, she now has to endure Cawlin’s crying .

[Magnus]

But will Cawlin spend the rest of his life being tortured by a ghostly hand every night? I think not.

 

I didn't realize Karane and Pipit got together if you decided to go the other way, though. That explains why they both spent the rest of the game just standing around and saying the same pointless thing every time I tried talking to them.

[killer kirby]

Eiji Anouma talks more about the next Zelda game or home console in Game Informer

 

“With Wind Waker, the graphics were suited to handheld gaming. Also the game ended with Link embarking on a journey, so it left open the possibility of what comes after the game. With Skyward Sword, positioning it as the first Zelda game means everything else connects to it and comes after it. It becomes a little bit difficult to do something else within that world and certainly much more difficult to do something that comes before it.”

 

It's kind of funny thinking about it...the next Zelda game will be in HD...

 

May not be what the next Zelda looks like, but Nintendo being Nintendo the amount of detail the next Zelda game will have, be very interesting how they go with HD now.

[Cube]

I'd absolutely love to see what they could do with a cel-shaded Zelda with the amount of power the Wii U has.