[SPOILERS!!] The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[Pookiablo]

On the NSMB front - I really don't want a sequel, I found both the DS and Wii version to be really boring (unless you played 4 player co-op, that was quite fun). It's strange seeing as I absolutely adore the original SMB, SMB 3 and SMW.

 

I think the new ones were a bit too easy and the level design didn't really do it for me. Meh, maybe I should just give it another go at some point.

[Emasher]

I noticed something interesting this morning. I was looking at the boxes of some of the recent Zelda games, and one of them stood out. Four Swords Adventures. What made it stand out was the fact that the colour of the logo was green, rather than the usual red. After this, I looked at the box arts for all the Zelda games, and noted this:

 

Red Logo:

 

The Legend of Zelda

The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past

The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening

The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time

The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker

The Legend of Zelda: Minish Cap

The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess

The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass

The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks

 

Non-red Logos:

 

Zelda II: The Adventure of Link

The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages

The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures

 

 

I started looking for something that the different coloured games had in common, and realized that aside from Oracle of Ages, the games that had different coloured logo's were the games that were really different from the rest of the series (I think the reason Ages had a blue logo, may have just been the art designer trying to make it look different from Oracle of Seasons). The Adventure of Link had a bunch of RPG elements, and had side scrolling dungeons, towns and enemy encounters. Majora's Mask changed the formula slightly with its time limit. Four Swords Adventures was level based.

 

So you're probably wondering at this point, why this is even relevant? The logo used with the artwork for Zelda Wii was Cyan (Red inverted). This is all just speculation, but especially with Miyamoto calling Twilight Princess the last Zelda of its kind, I'm thinking this may be another hint that Zelda Wii is going to be very different from what we've seen in the past.

Edited June 6, 2010 by Emasher

[dazzybee]

Bizarre observation, but I like it.

 

For me, im torn. I sort of would be happy with just another Zelda adventure with incredible motion plus controls... But a bit of me would love a complete reimagining...

[Pookiablo]

Bizarre observation, but I like it.

 

For me, im torn. I sort of would be happy with just another Zelda adventure with incredible motion plus controls... But a bit of me would love a complete reimagining...

 

I'm the opposite - I feel that Zelda really does need a breath of fresh air. That or, if they did follow the old style, just do it a lot better. A world that feels like it has people and not people who only serve as useless "sign posts".

 

Plus, I really would love for some voice-acting, I worry that it'll damage the game, but hopefully Nintendo, should they opt for it (can't see it happening myself) - would pump a fuckload of cash into it and get the best people available.

 

But yeah, not another Twilight Princess for me. That game was disappointing in terms of what I was expecting from it. Something clever and inventive a la Majora's Mask is needed!

[LostOverThere]

If you asked me this time last year whether Nintendo would ever do voice acting for one of their major franchises I would have said no. But here we are and Metroid: Other M is doing fully fledged voice acting and cutscenes.

 

Personally, whichever way Nintendo goes I wont really be surprised.

[Ganepark32]

It's Zelda on the Wii so obviously I'm interested in the game but in all honesty, the main reason I'm interested at the moment is to see how the game looks visually. I reckon they'll once again go for the realistic visual style but that's really not how I hope they decide to run. I'd much rather have a more stylised visual game because while Twilight Princess was great stylistically, the technical flaws were very apparent at times. You didn't even have to look hard to see the polygonal framework for the terrain in the desert sometimes, which wasn't helped by texture clipping issues that highlighted these areas.

 

I've said it elsewhere but I think it's worth reiterating here. I'd personally like to see Nintendo do something different visually. And by different I mean do something like a watercoloured design, that takes say the conceptualised/cel-shaded look of Borderlands (it's bloody cel-shaded Gearbox regardless of what you say) and pair it with the watercolouring/use of colours in say Okami (although not quite as vibrant). I think it could look really good.

 

Regardless of how it eventually turns out looking, I'll still be excited for it. How the story and gameplay has changed will definitely be interesting but here's the thing: Zelda fans do not know what they want with their Zelda games. Prior to Wind Waker, people were asking for change and when they were giving it, they didn't like it (until more recently where the game has suddenly become fondly remembered by all those who didn't like it that first time around). Similarly, after Wind Waker they wanted something more like Ocarina of Time. And lo and behold, we got Twilight Princess and people moaned it was too similar to Ocarina of Time and started asking for change

 

As I see it, no matter what Nintendo do or show of the new Zelda, people will still moan about it because they've become disillusioned as to what they want from the franchise, constantly flipping between change and keeping the game the same. I loved both of those games and would like to see the same kind of drastic change to the formula Wind Waker brought but I don't even think Nintendo will go that far.

[LostOverThere]

Zelda fans do not know what they want with their Zelda games.

+One bajillion internets for you, good sir.

[darkjak]

Stylised graphics could be cool, just as long as it isn't toony.

And the reason TP didn't look so good was that it actually was a Gamecube game. The Wii is twice as powerful, so if Nintendo have learned how to sqeeze every ounce of power from the console, it could look great even with a more realistic graphical style.

[killer kirby]

+One bajillion internets for you, good sir.

 

Same here good sir, this person is spot on.

 

For me Zelda has still been the 'Go out on a big adventure, but to get to the end go through the temples and dungeons all over the land to collect the 8 objects'

 

One reason I still love Zelda and having Zelda: Twilight Princess as my most favorite game is that the dungeon designs are bloody awesome and too me are the best the Zelda team has ever created, this is why I am really looking forward to the new one, if Mario Galaxy was able to create levels like they could, I am drooling at the thought of what the Zelda team could think of in dungeon designs.

 

Buuut of course, one little thing I wouldn't mind is to bring in a new system into the game, so far my favorite is Oracle of Season's and the pleasure of changing weather for different results.

 

Oh and more free will, sometimes it's fun not going in one straight path going temple to temple. I remember how in OOT I went forest temple, water temple, spirit temple, fire temple and shadow temple. Yeah weird pattern but I was still able to do it, it would be fun updating where we are in a new Zelda only to find out that we have all gone into different area's

[Emasher]

Wind Waker didn't really deviate from the formula. The only real difference was that rather than a field separating the different areas, you had an ocean, and the areas were farther apart, with less in between them. But you still went from dungeon to dungeon without any massive changes to gameplay mechanics.

[killer kirby]

As I see it, no matter what Nintendo do or show of the new Zelda, people will still moan about it because they've become disillusioned as to what they want from the franchise, constantly flipping between change and keeping the game the same. I loved both of those games and would like to see the same kind of drastic change to the formula Wind Waker brought but I don't even think Nintendo will go that far.

 

Too me, I see Zelda fans as the complete 180 of Sonic fans, Sonic fans always declare the next game to be the best, hype everything about a new sonic game even when it comes out talk about how awesome it is even though it shit.

 

While on the other side of the field Zelda fans complain about good games

[Ganepark32]

As strange as it sounds, I do think Nintendo and the Zelda franchise could learn a thing or two from some of the Western RPG devs. I know Zelda is completely different from the likes of Fallout or Mass Effect but with a Zelda game, you're going out on a big adventure to save the princess but the things you do never seem to resonate much beyond a minimal level with the people in the game's world. I'd like to see Nintendo make the events of the game/the things you do as the player have a bigger impact on the world and the world respond to it.

 

Maybe I've been spoiled by Western RPGs but I do think it'd make for a much more connected world and give a sense of meaning and purpose to the game and the actions you carry out. I'm not saying that they should incorporate huge dialogue trees or that kind of thing. Keeping the mechanics as they are, just make it that the story is more involving and has a wider reach than it does and make it so that it actually feels like you're having an impact on the world. You are afterall out to save not only the princess but Hyrule and the game's world should respond/change with the actions you do as you go about this more than they do normally.

 

The same style of adventuring will remain in this new Zelda, regardless of how far removed Nintendo say it will be from the other games, but I'd really like to see what I've mentioned above and perhaps a more emotional/gripping story. The bit in Twilight Princess with the Zora Queen and her son, and the way in which the game and the music changed to give that section and the Queen's grave a sense of emotion was one of my best bits (and perhaps housed one of the best pieces of music in a Zelda game).

 

I hope that all makes sense. It wouldn't drastically change Zelda to incorporate these ideas but it's change it in a way that, well I think, would benefit the play as they'd feel more attached to the events, the characters and the story.

[Ronnie]

I really think they're going to dumb Zelda down. Like they dumbed Mario Kart and NSMB

[Emasher]

As I've said before, I'd like the exploration elements to go back to the series's roots. The original Zelda game was much more like Fallout or Oblivion as far as exploration goes. You have a general idea of where you're going, and what you're trying to do, but its up to you to explore the world and try and find your next destination. If anything, I'd like to see the game much more open with much better rewards for exploration. The story of course should stay linear, but the world doesn't have to be, as long as they keep you out of areas like dungeons, ect. until you're ready. In terms of rewarding exploration, the heard pieces, and some of the other smaller rewards you get for straying from the beaten path aren't reward enough anymore. If we go back to the example of Fallout 3, throughout the game, you'll most likely come across all the standard weapons over the course of your play through, even with limited exploration, however, if you actually take your time to explore, and go through hidden dungeons, and do sidequests, you'll sometimes come across special versions of the weapons with slightly better stats, and sometimes a better look to them. For instance, you have access to 2 types of common assault rifles, but there's also a unique scoped assault rifle that you can find. As another example, in the Point Lookout DLC there's a fairly common 10mm rifle that you can get, but it lowers your maximum health when equipped. If you do a certain sidequest, you, at the end find a special version of the rifle that doesn't lower your stats when equipped. Nintendo could easily do something like this in Zelda where you could get for instance, a more powerful type of arrow or something like that, but it would be completely optional, and you would have to go way out of your way to find it. There have been some things like this in Zelda, like the Mirror shield in Minish cap, or the Magic Armour in Twilight princess, but the exploration would be alot more fun if there were a lot more things like this, waiting at the end of mini-dungeons rather than the usual 20 Rupees.

 

I really think they're going to dumb Zelda down. Like they dumbed Mario Kart and NSMB

 

Neither were really dumbed down that much. Mario Galaxy 2 is also proof that Nintendo is still willing to release difficult games for us (or so just about everyone is telling me, I haven't had a chance to play it yet).

[Ronnie]

Mario Kart Wii was incredibly dumbed down.

 

I can't see Nintendo going with the 'big world... explore what you want' route for Zelda. I hope they do, but if anything they have a recent history of doing the opposite, making games more accessible, ie. map screens and levels.

 

Could we see a Zelda Four Swords Adventures type game with levels and chapters?

[Emasher]

Please explain exactly how you think it was dumbed down. Its not enough to simply say it was.

 

A major Zelda title will not be Level based. Its just not going to happen. Mario has traditionally been level based, so a simpler level selection screen wasn't much of a surprise. But a series like Zelda that is largely based around exploration isn't going to go that route in what has been described to us as a major game in the series.

[flameboy]

Zelda badly needs a revamp and brought kicking and screaming into this gen (I mean this in terms of gameplay not graphically) for me Darksiders (even though I havn't completed it yet) out Zelda's Zelda in so many ways. Yes it steals from a ton of games but it brings with it new ideas that Zelda is just screaming out to have.

 

I wanna see us playing a Link at the height of his game. A Link in his prime rather than the constant origin/ coming of age story we are fed. Hows about Link in position as a General a leader...maybe take inspiration from something like Viking on PS3 and 360 whereby you lead an army on missions in a relatively sandbox manner. Would really open up the game world and offer players the chance to experiment with abilites and use what they want when they want, rather than be shoe horned down a directed experience with the steady progression and items being used as and when they are needed.

 

Failing this the other option I'd quite like to see is some kind of PSO style re-invention.

[Ronnie]

Please explain exactly how you think it was dumbed down. Its not enough to simply say it was.

 

A major Zelda title will not be Level based. Its just not going to happen. Mario has traditionally been level based, so a simpler level selection screen wasn't much of a surprise. But a series like Zelda that is largely based around exploration isn't going to go that route in what has been described to us as a major game in the series.

 

Please stop talking like you are the expert on all things Nintendo and whatever you say is fact and cannot be disputed. Your tone is extremely condescending.

 

Mario Kart Wii was dumbed down, simple reason, the power slider, they took away a brilliant technique that required a fair amount of skill to pull off well, and replaced it with, well, nothing, to achieve the same effect. The unbelievable rubber-banding and randomness associated with where you placed in a race meant skill played very little part in the game, and it was more down to luck, reducing it to more of a party game.

 

You state that a level-based Zelda won't happen. I agree, it's very unlikely, but who knows, given they've already done one level-based game. I was conveying a fear of mine, that the series will be dumbed down, if Miyamoto's comments about 'simplifying' the way you play Zelda means anything... - It was just a thought.

[Emasher]

I'm simply trying to emphasize the fact that its extremely unlikely. Everyone does this. Get over it.

 

The items could be a little bit annoying, but for the most part, if you were skilled, you could still easily win. Changing game mechanics is something that all developers do in sequels. Sometimes they take things out. It doesn't mean they're dumbing down the game, sometimes its simply a matter of rebalancing the gameplay, ect. (Although, saying that, Mario Kart Wii wasn't balanced that well when you factor in the items anyway). The thing with Mario Kart though is it really is a bridge title. The Wii version was always intended as a game that anyone could play. I just can't see the doing that with Zelda.

 

I think the reason Four Swords Adventures was level based was more because of the Co-op element. Just jumping in to an open world game doesn't really work that well, but a level has a defined start and end, and when you finish a level with someone, even if that's all you played, you still feel like you've accomplished something, whereas in an open world game, just being thrown into it in the middle of the game can be a little bit intimidating. But that's just a theory.

[Ronnie]

I'm simply trying to emphasize the fact that its extremely unlikely. Everyone does this. Get over it.

 

Then cut out the 'I'm right, you're wrong' condescending attitude.

 

The items could be a little bit annoying, but for the most part, if you were skilled, you could still easily win. Changing game mechanics is something that all developers do in sequels. Sometimes they take things out. It doesn't mean they're dumbing down the game, sometimes its simply a matter of rebalancing the gameplay, ect. (Although, saying that, Mario Kart Wii wasn't balanced that well when you factor in the items anyway). The thing with Mario Kart though is it really is a bridge title. The Wii version was always intended as a game that anyone could play. I just can't see the doing that with Zelda.

 

That's total bollocks, it was obvious to all that Mario Kart Wii was dumbed down to appeal to the masses that the Wii itself primarily caters for. Every review commented on it, most gamers who've played agree.

 

Zelda DS games are basically dumbed down Zelda games, Zelda Lite. Accessible Zelda.

[Emasher]

There would be no point in discussing it if I wasn't allowed to take a position different from you and disagree with your position.

 

I'm not trying to argue that the game wasn't designed to appeal to the masses. What I'm trying to say was that it wasn't really dumbed down to appeal to them. They took out a few exploits and stuff like that, but the amount of skill required to win races was still about the same as before. Perhaps we experienced the game differently though.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

At any rate, we should get back to talking about Zelda.

 

To start things off again, what items/weapons does everyone want to see make a return in this game?

 

I think we can safely assume that the the Sword (in some form), shield, bow, bombs, boomerang, ect. will all return, but what about all the less common items.

 

Personally, I'd like to see a return of the Cane of Paci (SP), it was last used in Minish Cap. Perhaps it could work something like the Gravity Gun from Half Life 2.

Edited June 6, 2010 by Emasher

[dazzybee]

Then cut out the 'I'm right, you're wrong' condescending attitude.

 

 

 

That's total bollocks, it was obvious to all that Mario Kart Wii was dumbed down to appeal to the masses that the Wii itself primarily caters for. Every review commented on it, most gamers who've played agree.

 

Zelda DS games are basically dumbed down Zelda games, Zelda Lite. Accessible Zelda.

 

Mate the guy didn't have that attitude at all from where i am. In fact you're "it was obvious to all that Mario Kart Wii was dumbed down to appeal to the masses" is infinitely more "'I'm right, you're wrong' condescending attitude."

 

It obviously ISNT obvious to everyone! Most reviews commented on it? No they never. Most gamers agree? No they don't.

 

And I'd love to know how you think NSMB was dumbed down. But only from someone who knows what they're talking about so please don't reply to that!

[Fierce_LiNk]

Mate the guy didn't have that attitude at all from where i am. In fact you're "it was obvious to all that Mario Kart Wii was dumbed down to appeal to the masses" is infinitely more "'I'm right, you're wrong' condescending attitude."

 

It obviously ISNT obvious to everyone! Most reviews commented on it? No they never. Most gamers agree? No they don't.

 

And I'd love to know how you think NSMB was dumbed down. But only from someone who knows what they're talking about so please don't reply to that!

 

I'm going to second that. I've re-read Emashers posts, and I really don't think that he's the condescending one here. He seemed to state his point quite well, I thought. I would feel a little hard done by if I was him.

 

Either way, I'm looking forward to seeing what Nintendo do with the next Zelda. I think they've earned our trust by now, and it's not something that they'll take lightly. So, it's probably best to keep an open mind in the meantime.

[darkjak]

Can we get over this argument?

I must agree that I'm affraid that Nintendo are going to dumb down Zelda. The difficulty level has dropped in Zeldas and I generally see Nintendo trying to hard to make some games accessible.

[Josh64]

Stage Debut on Wii as a 'Home' type channel.

MAKE IT HAPPEN, NINTENDO!

 

Edited June 7, 2010 by Josh64