Cube Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 England won't even accept Scottish money. So much for that lol. I'm positive I've been given (and then spent) Scottish notes as change...
mariosmentor Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 (edited) Some places do accept them. But many places will reject them, even if you point out sterling on the note. Especially London. I have never passed a note over a shop counter in London and my dad has to get any notes on him changed to English notes when he heads back down for work. The law says you are supposed to accept it but many stores just don't. Dunno why not to be honest. Thanks Columnar, at least someone's ok with at least one of my points. Edited June 21, 2009 by mariosmentor
Columnar Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 I totally agree with mariosmentor on this one. I moved to Yorkshire last year and had a great deal of difficulty spending what remaining Scottish money I had without someone shouting 'Do we take SCOTCH money'! So much for being a UNITED Kingdom - all the money is the same no matter where it comes from. I'm not a raving Nationalist as my Dad and his family all hail from Lancashire but I consider myself Scottish first and foremost and I'm very proud of it. I guess we all just have strong opinions about this issue and must respect them.
Raining_again Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 I totally agree with mariosmentor on this one. I moved to Yorkshire last year and had a great deal of difficulty spending what remaining Scottish money I had without someone shouting 'Do we take SCOTCH money'! So much for being a UNITED Kingdom - all the money is the same no matter where it comes from. I'm not a raving Nationalist as my Dad and his family all hail from Lancashire but I consider myself Scottish first and foremost and I'm very proud of it. I guess we all just have strong opinions about this issue and must respect them. Same with northern Irish sterling too. Would be helpful if we all had a uniformed currency
Platty Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 Most places in London accept Scottish and NI sterling. In some places they even take the Euro.... I came back from NI few months back with some notes. Burger king had no problem in taking them and neither did W H Smith
Raining_again Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 Most places in London accept Scottish and NI sterling. In some places they even take the Euro.... I came back from NI few months back with some notes. Burger king had no problem in taking them and neither did W H Smith you came to N.I and didn't even visit the N.I n-europe crew?! Shame on you
mariosmentor Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 Platty My dads being working there on off for 10 years and it has always been a problem for him. And I'm serious when I say every time I visited (about 10 times) they have never once accepted my money, even when I have had no money otherwise and had to walk home. Taxi drivers have also given abuse (What the fuck is this mate...?" when giving them Scottish notes. I suppose it is up to the individual teller, maybe once they hear the Scottish accent they check the money who knows But yea no one can tell me it doesn't happen.
navarre Posted June 21, 2009 Author Posted June 21, 2009 London(Corrected, I generalized England when really I only experienced London's attitude to Scottish pound) won't even accept Scottish money. So much for that lol. That's why it seems rather pointless as to why you Scots produce your own notes in the first place. But yea lack of national identity as British you mean? I consider myself Scottish, and a majority in Scotland do. We have very much our own national identity, heritage and culture.We are considered our own country you know, even if it doesn't feel like it. So? How does that justify independence? 'We've got our own identity and heritage'? Good for you, but how is that an argument against the union? Does being in the United Kingdom suddenly render that culture and heritage redundant? If so, it's a pretty weak culture you have there. Btw I don't want this to be interpreted as a hate England thing ignorance on either side is just as bad. My cuz's are English I could never hate them :P And that's exactly why being independent would be impratical. With around half of Scotlands population having relatives in England, does it really make sense to create a political border to make travel between the two countries harder?
mariosmentor Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 (edited) 50% of Scots live in Canada. Should we unite with them too?(Because of the Highland clearances coincidently, that borders on genocide and ethnic cleansing for historians) National Identity was a response to why I refer to myself as Scottish, not an argument exactly for independence. Do none of you refer to yourself as English? Using the logic of Scottish notes being redundant then you should be backing the crossover to the Euro. And then our currency would also be controlled by London which would mean we would be feeling the full whack of the recession, which we do feel. Jobs are being lost up here too. Sometimes I think I would have a better response here if I said I supported the BNP or something... Edited June 21, 2009 by mariosmentor
navarre Posted June 21, 2009 Author Posted June 21, 2009 50% of Scots live in Canada. Should we unite with them too?(Because of the Highland clearances coincidently, that borders on genocide and ethnic cleansing for historians) What a pathetic argument. Aside from the obvious geographical, political and historical boundaries that would make such a union impossible, you've clearly missed my point. National Identity was a response to why I refer to myself as Scottish, not an argument exactly for independence. Do none of you refer to yourself as English? Actually, I refer to myself as 'human', but if not that, it would be British. Using the logic of Scottish notes being redundant then you should be backing the crossover to the Euro. And then our currency would also be controlled by London which would mean we would be feeling the full whack of the recession, which we do feel. Jobs are being lost up here too. What? Because I think that all sterling notes should look the same, I somehow endorse the Euro? How does that work? And stop complaining about being controlled by London; it's merely a location. If I were ruled by Edinburgh with an English Prime Minister and English MPs to represent me, I wouldn't mind. Sometimes I think I would have a better response here if I said I supported the BNP or something No one's insulting you. The only reason you're not getting a 'better response' is because people don't agree with you.
danny Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 (edited) There is so much wrong with what you have said its hard to even begin. It might be hard to understand but it's alot of little things. Businesses, politics, armed forces even Scottish tv is controlled down south. Now it's getting to the point where the few Scottish shows that do play are getting pulled off now because England has cut the budgets. England National Anthems playing in stores during world cups(even if Scotland's qualified aswell) our armed forces are not our armed forces, they are controlled by London if we ever went to war. So even if we don't agree we obliged to fight. Having spent a large ammount of time in scotland i happen to know if you did get independance people from glasgow would complain about all the above but just change london to edinburgh. also the armed forces are controlled by the govenment and who is in charge? yes a scot so i dont really see your point. The north oil reserves Read north sea not scottish sea. And its mostly drilled by foreign companys as well. The plans to build a whole bunch of nuclear power plants up here when Scotland is one of the best places in Europe to harvest green energy from tides and hydro-electric plants, enough for 1/4 of Europe after a quick google. (and pay for the nuke plants I might add even though we do not want them. We are to pay 76 million *Edit sorry actually it's 20 billion to start with and up to 76 in total. quite a different sum altogether* because the Americans want Trident renewed even though it fckin poisons our water!) It is very debatable as to how much green energy can be produced in the UK. Nuclear energy gives us power no questions. Im from cumbria we already have nuclear power and were going to get more. Its not just scotland you know. As for triedent look at my avatar im in the Navy have you been to Faslane? Have you seen how many people that employs? Have you spoken to any of the thousends who have good high quality jobs? Do they want trident to leave scotland. No they dont because theres fuck all else. And the history is quite thick too, the uninformative "Braveheart" aside. We were invaded, a desire for England to rule all of the British Isles and even after peace treaties were signed England still invaded years later regardless due to feeling "humiliated" at Scots have their independence(not making it up humiliated English lords demanded another invasion). In the end it's also debatable that Scots in power were bribed to bless and force the Union, even though it is suggested that the majority of the public was outspoken against it. Rabbie Burns even wrote a poem about it. So the root of our Union seems to lie in dishonesty and forceful tactics which doesn't help things. Now with wars and politicians/bankers running amok with our(and yours I'm not saying that!) money it seems like a good idea to be ourselves and leave us the hell alone, all we wanted in the first place! Scotland wasnt exactly perfect when it came to this. And as for the union who was the king? If nothing else you got sold out by one of your own. Any way that was how mnay hundred years ago? Does it bear any meaning now? Another factor is that right now Scotland is more of a joke country than anything. We are led to believe we are our own country and have real say/power but really we have no control over anything. The only thing we get is a big fancy faux parliament that sits around and probably has no more say in getting chewing gum off the streets than any real legislations or decisions. London handles our big decisions but then what do a bunch of guys in Westminster know about Scottish life? Well dosent scotland vote for MPs just like everyone else? Scottish life? whats the fucks different about it? Apart from the fact people go around beating each other up because they wear a blue/green shirt? Its just like the rest of the UK scottish life is no different its just wetter and colder. its not mars. One last thing. England is arm in arm with America. The biggest warmongering nation on the planet. That scares me. Criticism of Iraq/Afganistan is quite outspoken here, if we had a choice, a vote I don't think Scotland would have went to that sham war. The Scottish debt aswell, from all that oil that goes down south we get back the smallest fraction yet the Scottish debt to England rises every year. Hows that then? Britain is arm in arm with america. And remember the PM is scottish (not for much longer mind). No matter what you might think of the Iraq war Afgahanistan is not Iraq and the future of the western world could very well depend on what happens there. Any body with any sense who has actually looked at the facts could not argue that Afghanistan should have been left to carry on down the road it was on. Bassicaly Scotland needs to stop holding on to history and being petty. Im from northern england and many of the arguments you have given are used by people from here. And they would be used by people no matter what country you lived in. In my opinion they should just do away with the 4 countrys and make it just one country Britain. One football team, one govenment one everything. Edited June 21, 2009 by danny
Shino Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 Haha, so all that shit you give the euro because the pound somehow signifies the whole country's identity isn't even valid since you don't accept each other's notes? Let's see in my wallet I have 4 Portuguese coins, 3 Spanish and 1 French.
mariosmentor Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 (edited) Having spent a large ammount of time in scotland i happen to know if you did get independence people from glasgow would complain about all the above but just change london to edinburgh. also the armed forces are controlled by the govenment and who is in charge? yes a scot so i dont really see your point. Why the hell would we complain about Edinburgh? It's our goddamn capital mate that doesn't make a lick of sense. A scot in power? You mean that sham of a man? Read north sea not scottish sea. And its mostly drilled by foreign companys as well. Yes it's in North sea I never said Scottish sea what the hell's you're point? Drilled by foreigners and they have to pay the UK for that, money we see very little of. It is very debatable as to how much green energy can be produced in the UK. Nuclear energy gives us power no questions. Im from cumbria we already have nuclear power and were going to get more. Its not just scotland you know. As for triedent look at my avatar im in the Navy have you been to Faslane? Have you seen how many people that employs? Have you spoken to any of the thousends who have good high quality jobs? Do they want trident to leave scotland. No they dont because theres fuck all else. I have been to faslane you fool! My dad used to work there. (I know this keeps coming up lol) And I've done a documentary piece on the peace camps and rallies there. Yes it would mean job loses but how many jobs would in inclusion of Green energy production create? Plus Scotland voted NO on Nuclear power plants and was completely ignored. How's that for democracy. Scotland wasnt exactly perfect when it came to this. And as for the union who was the king? If nothing else you got sold out by one of your own. Any way that was how mnay hundred years ago? Does it bear any meaning now? Alot of Scottish folks are very deep rooted in their history and consider the Union and outdated entity which just isn't working mate. History shapes and changes society. Even your dismissal of our history shows how far our attitudes are apart. Well doesn't Scotland vote for MPs just like everyone else? Scottish life? what's the fucks different about it? Apart from the fact people go around beating each other up because they wear a blue/green shirt? Its just like the rest of the UK Scottish life is no different its just wetter and colder. its not mars. Man that's just incredibly ignorant. So we're all just a bunch of mindless thugs huh? Even though England's renowned for starting trouble abroad whereas the Tartan Army is mostly welcomed in any country? We vote for MSP's but in our position we don't have a damn say in anything. We are vastly outnumbered our votes get local politicians elected but we have no say in world matters. Something that is becoming frequently more worrying as the current government continues to act on policies without our blessing, but that doesn't mean a damn thing. Such as Closing down A + E services in Scotland the only the SNP turned about. Britain is arm in arm with america. And remember the PM is scottish (not for much longer mind). No matter what you might think of the Iraq war Afgahanistan is not Iraq and the future of the western world could very well depend on what happens there. Any body with any sense who has actually looked at the facts could not argue that Afghanistan should have been left to carry on down the road it was on. Feel pride for a Scottish PM is damn shallow and hardly an excuse to stay with the system. The future world depends on how much oil they find because it will determine you gets the business ends of the US's foreign policy next. If you cannot accept that people against the war are not a small minority, that it is actually quite a strong talking point among people who don't want to be blindly following their government in it's warmongering, then I shouldn't even be talking to you mate. Afghanistan is a country that's been invaded by foreign powers foi the last 100 years or so. The country should just be left the hell alone and allowed to pick up the pieces rather than blown to fuck. There you go mate calm down though. This doesn't feel like a discussing, more like "Shoot down anyone who supports Independence" though it was nice to hear something more than "We shouldn't give up the UK because it's the Status Quo" I mean you can disagree with me but it feels like you're taking this personally. What a pathetic argument. Aside from the obvious geographical, political and historical boundaries that would make such a union impossible, you've clearly missed my point. Even though it was part of the British empire but nevermind. What? Because I think that all sterling notes should look the same, I somehow endorse the Euro? How does that work? And stop complaining about being controlled by London; it's merely a location. If I were ruled by Edinburgh with an English Prime Minister and English MPs to represent me, I wouldn't mind. Because even if it was the other way around England would still have the majority vote. And I can tell you alot of people WOULD be pissed it that were the case. I really don't see why a unified sterling and a unified Euro are very much different. And yes London is completely out of touch with Scotland, the MP's down their act as if Scotland a burdern that needs to be pleased rather than actually trying to make a difference and improve the lifestyle. The huge amount of people living in poverty here is a clear example of that. Scotland is just a bunch of statistics to the current government and the voices and opinions of Scots are leargely unheard. No one's insulting you. The only reason you're not getting a 'better response' is because people don't agree with you. Well maybe but then "what a pathetic argument" isn't exactly good manners is it? Edited June 21, 2009 by mariosmentor Automerged Doublepost
danny Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 Afghanistan is a country that's been invaded by foreign powers foi the last 100 years or so. The country should just be left the hell alone and allowed to pick up the pieces rather than blown to fuck. There you go mate calm down though. This doesn't feel like a discussing, more like "Shoot down anyone who supports Independence" though it was nice to hear something more than "We shouldn't give up the UK because it's the Status Quo" Yeah we tried leaving Afghanistan the hell alone and that didnt work remember????? No its a shoot down anyone who blambes England for every problem that scotland has. DO you not think so many of the thing you mention are felt in England as well?
navarre Posted June 22, 2009 Author Posted June 22, 2009 . A scot in power? You mean that sham of a man? Gordon Brown is doing an admirable job considering people such as yourself are constantly complaining about him, without truly knowing why. With the amount of bad publicity he's had, you'd think he's Hitler or something. Yes it's in North sea I never said Scottish sea what the hell's you're point? Drilled by foreigners and they have to pay the UK for that, money we see very little of. Oh yes, the dire poverty level in Scotland is abominable! You guys really need to reclaim the North Sea now, Scotland is looking like third world Africa! Plus Scotland voted NO on Nuclear power plants and was completely ignored. How's that for democracy. I voted for the Liberal Democrats in the European elections. They lost badly. It's called democracy when the majority wins. Even though England's renowned for starting trouble abroad whereas the Tartan Army is mostly welcomed in any country? England supporters hardly ever start trouble abroad, and it isn't just exclusive to England. Football hoolaginism was rife in Northern Ireland recently in a game against Poland, an example that comes to mind. Oh, and you guys aren't all that good at football, and don't take it as seriously. Alot of Scottish folks are very deep rooted in their history and consider the Union and outdated entity which just isn't working mate What a load of perennial crap: when the union has existed from 1707, and the idea of a Scottish nation has been around for thousands of years, I find it ironic and slightly amusing how you claim the union to be an outdated concept. Afghanistan is a country that's been invaded by foreign powers foi the last 100 years or so. The country should just be left the hell alone and allowed to pick up the pieces rather than blown to fuck. Oh yes, totally agree! We should just've let the Taliban continue to whip girls with an education to death, suppress every right that women enjoy in the West, fund terrorism and behead every man, woman and child that even considers breaking their twisted version of Sharia Law. one of the reasons that the Afghanistan invasion is far less controversial to the Iraq war is because it needed to happen for the benefit of the inhabitants of that country. Because even if it was the other way around England would still have the majority vote. And I can tell you alot of people WOULD be pissed it that were the case. I really don't see why a unified sterling and a unified Euro are very much different. And yes London is completely out of touch with Scotland, the MP's down their act as if Scotland a burdern that needs to be pleased rather than actually trying to make a difference and improve the lifestyle. The huge amount of people living in poverty here is a clear example of that.Scotland is just a bunch of statistics to the current government and the voices and opinions of Scots are leargely unheard. That's because England has ten times the population of Scotland. If London is so out of touch with Scotland, I take you guys didn't really want a seperate education and health system and your own government? Too out of touch, eh? Well maybe but then "what a pathetic argument" isn't exactly good manners is it? Forgive me if my online etiquette isn't quite up to standards!
McPhee Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 Give the Scots their freedom, all they do is steal from our treasury and complain like the thick northern idiots that they are. Sorry, not really like that but all the abuse from up north annoys me. There's a reason why the south controls everything - we're the ones with the money, constantly bailing out your pathetic asses. Also, I've never had any problems with Scottish tender being accepted anywhere. Must be just because you come across as a nationalistic twat. Money moves North at the moment because Scotland's economy can't support itself. Should the Union break apart though this will change. There's $3 Trillion worth of oil in the waters of the North Sea around Scotland, currently owned by the UK (and therefore London). By the rules set down in 1958 by the UK, Norway, Denmark, Holland and Germany the oil would belong to Scotland if the union ever ended (They didn't specifically discuss this, but they decided ownership is based on geographic location. Under the rules they agreed on this would make most of the Oil property of the Scottish government.). Ownership moving to Edinburgh would vastly increase the wealth of everyone north of the border. Why do you think the Scots want independance? There'll be more money to go around (currently the GDP PP in Scotland is FAR lower than in England), they'll have greater political control and their own place on the World stage. To be frank i find the attitudes of people in this thread disgusting and insulting. You know nothing about the situation so instead you throw about insults. Oh, and Pooki, have an infraction for that first comment you made. Twat.
danny Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 Money moves North at the moment because Scotland's economy can't support itself. Should the Union break apart though this will change. There's $3 Trillion worth of oil in the waters of the North Sea around Scotland, currently owned by the UK (and therefore London). By the rules set down in 1958 by the UK, Norway, Denmark, Holland and Germany the oil would belong to Scotland if the union ever ended (They didn't specifically discuss this, but they decided ownership is based on geographic location. Under the rules they agreed on this would make most of the Oil property of the Scottish government.). Ownership moving to Edinburgh would vastly increase the wealth of everyone north of the border. Why do you think the Scots want independance? There'll be more money to go around (currently the GDP PP in Scotland is FAR lower than in England), they'll have greater political control and their own place on the World stage. To be frank i find the attitudes of people in this thread disgusting and insulting. You know nothing about the situation so instead you throw about insults. Oh, and Pooki, have an infraction for that first comment you made. Twat. You make the assumption that if the union did break up it would happen without england taking claim to some of this oil. Which would never happen. It would be like a divorce. The oil is going to run out in the next couple of decades then what for an independant Scotland?
Pookiablo Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 Money moves North at the moment because Scotland's economy can't support itself. Should the Union break apart though this will change. There's $3 Trillion worth of oil in the waters of the North Sea around Scotland, currently owned by the UK (and therefore London). By the rules set down in 1958 by the UK, Norway, Denmark, Holland and Germany the oil would belong to Scotland if the union ever ended (They didn't specifically discuss this, but they decided ownership is based on geographic location. Under the rules they agreed on this would make most of the Oil property of the Scottish government.). Ownership moving to Edinburgh would vastly increase the wealth of everyone north of the border. Why do you think the Scots want independance? There'll be more money to go around (currently the GDP PP in Scotland is FAR lower than in England), they'll have greater political control and their own place on the World stage. To be frank i find the attitudes of people in this thread disgusting and insulting. You know nothing about the situation so instead you throw about insults. Oh, and Pooki, have an infraction for that first comment you made. Twat. First of all, it was a joke response (I did warn Tellyn over the n-e chat earlier) - mariosmentor was being a complete nob and I just found it funny. Do you honestly think I actually believe people are thick because they come from up north? Of course not, jesus I'm not Adolf Hitler. I was just trying to wind the guy up because of his ridiculous views, I don't need to go out of my way to insult him, he's already done that enough by himself by being a complete and utter idiot. I'm all for a United Kingdom, and a United Europe for that matter, hence my current academic/career path being based in European law, politics and economics. I wasn't pretending to be a know-it-all - no one in here knows the full situation. In response to the non-drivel part of your post (Yes, Mods can talk rubbish too you know), I did read from quite a few sources the other day that even if Scotland were independent and it did have control of the oil in the North Sea, it still wouldn't be financially secure. It goes both ways. Besides, the Scots do receive more money per head than us down in the South from the government in regards to public spending (it's around £1000 more), not to mention your university education system is free. Also, cheers for the infraction, I'll frame it on my wall, bet you felt a great sense of pride dishing that one out! I love how you give me one for insulting another member and then opt to insult me yourself - so rational there, clearly you're just as stupid as all the other supposedly stupid people in this thread because of their "disgusting" views. People get wound over things like this and last time I checked, they are allowed to. Deal with it.
McPhee Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 (edited) So by your own admission you were flame baiting then? Fair enough, i'll remove the infraction for the insult and give you one for that instead. Happy? And i do understand the irony of calling you a twat, that's the exact sense in which it was meant. A lot of figures on Scotland's independant economic position are confusing to be honest. It really doesn't help that most articles haven't been updated recently, they found a new oil field equaling at least 32 Billion barrels (roughly the amount that's been hauled out of the North Sea already) in February. Then there's the fact that RBS and Lloyd's Bank are both based in Edinburgh, to become independant Scotland would likely have to raise the capital to buy both banks from London. As for this; (Yes, Mods can talk rubbish too you know What does me being a mod have to do with my opinion? I don't recall saying "accept that i'm right or i'll infract you all!" did I? No, i merely put forward my take on things (which has one hell of a lot more basis in fact than most of the posts so far in this thread). You make the assumption that if the union did break up it would happen without england taking claim to some of this oil. Which would never happen. It would be like a divorce. The oil is going to run out in the next couple of decades then what for an independant Scotland? If they did lay claim to it they'd have to get Norway, Denmark, Holland and Germany to agree to rewrite the ownership rules. Denmark, Holland and Germany might be interested, but not Norway (they already own most of the oil in the North Sea, no way they'll risk putting that up for discussion). As for when the oil runs out, well what does $3 Trillion of investment over 30 years (the amount of time it'll take the oil to run out at current drill rates) buy you? Pre-banking crisis Edinburgh was one of the biggest financial services centers in Europe. It'll have recovered by then. There's also Silicon Glen where some of the biggest electronics and IT companies in Europe are based (along with some of Europe's leading Universities in these fields). Scotland is also tipped as the best place to farm tidal and wind energy in the whole of Europe. In 30 years time they could be exporting pure electricity rather than Oil and Petrolium. The possibilities for people living up there are much better under an independent government. The country already has a pretty good GDP PP (turns out i read the wrong figure earlier, it's already higher in Scotland than in England by about $1000 per capita). Edited June 22, 2009 by McPhee
Tellyn Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 I confirm that El Pookiablo said it in jest, he warned me on the chat room fearing a virtual backhand from me.
danny Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 So by your own admission you were flame baiting then? Fair enough, i'll remove the infraction for the insult and give you one for that instead. Happy? And i do understand the irony of calling you a twat, that's the exact sense in which it was meant. A lot of figures on Scotland's independant economic position are confusing to be honest. It really doesn't help that most articles haven't been updated recently, they found a new oil field equaling at least 32 Billion barrels (roughly the amount that's been hauled out of the North Sea already) in February. Then there's the fact that RBS and Lloyd's Bank are both based in Edinburgh, to become independant Scotland would likely have to raise the capital to buy both banks from London. As for this; What does me being a mod have to do with my opinion? I don't recall saying "accept that i'm right or i'll infract you all!" did I? No, i merely put forward my take on things (which has one hell of a lot more basis in fact than most of the posts so far in this thread). If they did lay claim to it they'd have to get Norway, Denmark, Holland and Germany to agree to rewrite the ownership rules. Denmark, Holland and Germany might be interested, but not Norway (they already own most of the oil in the North Sea, no way they'll risk putting that up for discussion). As for when the oil runs out, well what does $3 Trillion of investment over 30 years (the amount of time it'll take the oil to run out at current drill rates) buy you? Pre-banking crisis Edinburgh was one of the biggest financial services centers in Europe. It'll have recovered by then. There's also Silicon Glen where some of the biggest electronics and IT companies in Europe are based (along with some of Europe's leading Universities in these fields). Scotland is also tipped as the best place to farm tidal and wind energy in the whole of Europe. In 30 years time they could be exporting pure electricity rather than Oil and Petrolium. The possibilities for people living up there are much better under an independent government. The country already has a pretty good GDP PP (turns out i read the wrong figure earlier, it's already higher in Scotland than in England by about $1000 per capita). You seem to think only scotland would have a say in independance and the deal each side gets out of it. If you think england would let 3 trillion just go out the window for nothing then i think your on another plannet. That oil isnt scottish no matter what you think it the UKs and therefore it wouldnt be scottish after independance just because of its location.
Sheikah Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 Oh, and Pooki, have an infraction for that first comment you made. Twat. I have to say, that's terribly amateur to dish out an infraction for something which you then went and did yourself.
The fish Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 (edited) And I take it South Ireland is in all sorts of hell and pain right now at not being in the union? Ack nvm, everybody here seems to be hardcore unionists. It, relatively, was until it joined the EU and got shit loads of help. On the whole currency thing, the reason Scottish notes are often not accepted in smaller shops down here is because people aren't familiar with them, so it would be easy to pass a forged note off as a real one. Adopting the Euro would solve such issues. Edited June 22, 2009 by The fish
Shino Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 It, relatively, was until it joined the EU and got shit loads of help. I agree that the EU was awesome in giving a jump start to countries such as Ireland and Portugal, there are several small countries around the world that are more than capable.
McPhee Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 You seem to think only scotland would have a say in independance and the deal each side gets out of it. If you think england would let 3 trillion just go out the window for nothing then i think your on another plannet. That oil isnt scottish no matter what you think it the UKs and therefore it wouldnt be scottish after independance just because of its location. That's pretty much what i said though. They'd have to renegotiate the rules of North Sea oil ownership with all of the concerned countries. I've no idea how that'd turn out, but i'd love to see someone try and convince the Norwegian government to sign off on something that says oil isn't necessarily the property of the nearest country. A cut of the profit is far more likely than a cut of the ownership, it's far easier to negotiate. I don't expect the deal to go exactly as the SNP would want it either, there's plenty of sacrifices that'd have to be made. For a start Lloyds and RBS are property of the government these days. Scotland would have to buy them back, baring the brunt of their debt. This is money Scotland doesn't actually have and likely where an oil deal would start from. Fairly moot discussion anyway. I'm more in favour of a properly united Great Britain. I favour Scottish independence over this current sham of a Union, but i'd much rather see Britishness be promoted and ties to old nations disolved. The Union is out dated and doesn't really serve much purpose these days, we're definitely not "Great Britain" at all. Stuff like the Bank of England needs to replaced with a Bank of Britain. Regional sports teams should be replaced by a British team. The English, Scottish and Welsh parliaments should be dissolved and a new one created in a different location (to remove the ties to the parliaments of the old nations).
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