Fierce_LiNk Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 Right, but to us, he's no more intimidating than other bosses. Perhaps this is the key. We control videogame characters, so it's jarring when they behave massively differently to how we feel at the time. Isn't it up to us whether we're scared of him or not? If I was truly there, I'd be terrified of all of them! Similarly, isn't the Metroid Prime series set before Other M? By that token, she's defeated a version of Ridley at least four times. If we can understand that this is sci-fi and all the monsters are always going to be revived, why can't Samus? The key thing there is that you say a version of Ridley. Yeah, she has already fought Ridley in different forms. However, what she sees is not a "form" or version of Ridley. It actually IS Ridley, the same Ridley which she believes that she killed a short while ago. Thats at least how I interpreted it anyway. I did find this battle with Ridley a lot more intimidating than other previous battles. Mainly because this time there was a bit more emotion involved. A lot of the time it was "another boss" but you felt there was a bit more at stake this time. Nah, I don't play that stuff. I'm honestly basing my views on the Metroid series alone. I don't agree that Samus has ever been particularly cold-blooded, for instance - I identify with her more because she's caring - but we've seen her deal with bosses so many times. Courage is not the absence of fear, but overcoming your fear (or something like that). I can understand that Samus is intimidated, but so much so that she can't fight? Again, this really comes back to whether games are something we control, or watch... There's nothing else Ripley can do at that moment, though. Samus is fully capable of fighting back. Samus does fight back, though. She is only momentarily frozen by her fear, which is the same fear that she remembers as a child, hence the flashback. Also, Ripley is momentarily frozen as well, but she eventually overcomes her fear and fights back. Hence the heroic scene in Aliens where she goes into the Hive to rescue Newt. There are parallels there.
or else you will DIE Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) Similarly, isn't the Metroid Prime series set before Other M? By that token, she's defeated a version of Ridley at least four times. If we can understand that this is sci-fi and all the monsters are always going to be revived, why can't Samus? Prime games = Not canon with the main series. It's a universe that exists within it's own. Sure, Prime makes references to events of the first game, but as far as the main series goes, the events of Prime never happened. Main series: Metroid (Zero Mission) Metroid II: Return of Samus Super Metroid Metroid: Other M Metroid Fusion Samus has battled the real Ridley twice (ZM & Super), a clone (Other M) and then an X mimicking him (Fusion). ~ ~ ~ I finished the game yesterday and have now saved to go back to look for upgrades and stuff. I found the battle against SPOILRZ a bit confusing at first but once I knew what to do it was a doddle. Those fucking SPOILEZ kept jumping onto me, though, which made it annoying the first few times. Man I envy you, playing it for the first time. You're gonna love the epilogue I just completed it again too. Those credits are something else, man. The music, the imagery. It's beautiful. Edited January 15, 2011 by or else you will DIE Automerged Doublepost
Grazza Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 I just completed it again too. Those credits are something else, man. The music, the imagery. It's beautiful. I agree, very "space opera". Despite what I've said, I really did enjoy this game quite a lot. One thing I forgot to mention was how much easier the bomb jump is in this than the Prime games. I have to conclude that Team Ninja have more mastery of controls than Retro Studios.
EEVILMURRAY Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 A bit of an odd question, but at the start of the game when Samus says, "Babies cry...it was though it was crying specifically for me" just as the "Metroid" title pieces together, does anyone else get massive shivers down their spine? I personally gagged wondering when the action was going to start. Again, where did you get this idea that Samus is a cold and merciless person? It's just the idea that you and many others seem to have made up in your head based on what, a few lines of dialogue in ZM, Super and Fusion? It's just that I'm yet to encounter a "nice" bounty hunter.
D_prOdigy Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 She's not really 'bounty hunter' as we know it though. I believe the original developers get quite baffled when westerners describe what she'd do as hunting for money. It seems 'bounty hunter' was quite an inaccurate translation of what the original designers had in mind, although it's obviously stuck with the western fanbase, despite her never actually doing any bounty hunting ever.
Ganepark32 Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 Prime games = Not canon with the main series. It's a universe that exists within it's own. Sure, Prime makes references to events of the first game, but as far as the main series goes, the events of Prime never happened. Main series: Metroid (Zero Mission) Metroid II: Return of Samus Super Metroid Metroid: Other M Metroid Fusion Samus has battled the real Ridley twice (ZM & Super), a clone (Other M) and then an X mimicking him (Fusion). Bolded bit is incorrect. The Prime games are considered canon within the series. The reason why they aren't mentioned or referred to in any other of the Metroid games is that the majority of them came out before the Prime games and that Prime was essentially an encapsulated story arc within the larger series, not a separate universe. Nintendo have said as such, as I'm sure I remember reading someone from Nintendo saying as such as well as seeing an official timeline which included them.
Eddage Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 Just started playing it, pretty good so far. My only gripe so far is Samus' voice, is there a reason she's so monotonous or is it just a bad voice actor?! Need to play it for a bit longer before a make a proper judgement though.
or else you will DIE Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 (edited) Bolded bit is incorrect. The Prime games are considered canon within the series. I wasn't very clear. I know they are suppose to take place between II & Super, but as far as the main series goes, they are non existant. And when I said another universe, I just meant that it exists within itself. It's its own series. "Almost everybody asks me about the Prime series, and they put it on the same line, but they are different." This is the (recent) official retrospective of the main series. There is no acknowledgement of the Prime events/games. 3 games in the main series came out before Prime, 1 came out at the same time and 2 came out after. None of the latter three have any mention to Prime either. Plus, Samus says in Other M that it was her first time working with the Galactic Federation since becoming a freelance bounty hunter. So going by this, all that stuff with her working with the GF in Corruption never happened. Edited January 16, 2011 by or else you will DIE
James McGeachie Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 (edited) Sakamoto blatantly doesn't know enough about the Prime games to know where Retro tried to fit it in and how it doesn't in ANY WAY violate any canon. It has no reason to be an alternative timetable except him trying to shun it for a reason like "Nah I wasn't involved enough in this". Zero Mission made that obvious. It was like he paid no attention at all that they started Metroid Prime making it seem like she had similar equipment/ship to the end of Metroid 1. There wasn't much of a real reason at all to have her fly out in another ship. The only other reason to shun the Prime timeline is like he deliberately didn't want Samus to seem like she had...I dunno....large amounts of strong experience. To be fair it does somewhat crush the realisticness of making Samus act like a baby in Other M, so it's not surprising he doesnt want to acknowledge it. Edited January 16, 2011 by James McGeachie
LostOverThere Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 Sakamoto blatantly doesn't know enough about the Prime games to know where Retro tried to fit it in and how it doesn't in ANY WAY violate any canon. It has no reason to be an alternative timetable except him trying to shun it for a reason like "Nah I wasn't involved enough in this". Considering he was a supervisor for the entire Metroid Prime series, I sure hope he knew that kind of stuff about the Prime series. :p
Cube Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 Plus, Samus says in Other M that it was her first time working with the Galactic Federation since becoming a freelance bounty hunter. So going by this, all that stuff with her working with the GF in Corruption never happened. That argument is a complete bull. Samus says that she hasn't been working as part of a Galactic Federation squad since becoming a freelance bounty hunter. In Metroid, Metroid 2: Return of Samus and Metroid Prime 3: Corruption she was hired by the Galactic Federation as a bounty hunter.
or else you will DIE Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 (edited) "It was the first joint mission I'd been apart of since becoming a freelance bounty hunter. And of course, it was the first time since my federation days that I found myself taking orders from a commanding officer." The original point still stands. Hired or not, she still says it was her first joint mission with the GF since leaving. Like you said, In Metroid and RoS, she was simply given jobs to do by the GF. Corruption has her actually working for, taking orders from and battling along side them at the end. There would be so many things in the main story that wouldn't make sense if the Prime games were part of it. Ridley, Un-freezable Metroids, Extinction of the Metroids and Space Pirates. Sakamoto said that he knows the Prime games were meant to take place in between I & II. I just don't think he includes them within *his* story. Edited January 16, 2011 by or else you will DIE
Eddage Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 Just started playing it, pretty good so far. My only gripe so far is Samus' voice, is there a reason she's so monotonous or is it just a bad voice actor?! Need to play it for a bit longer before a make a proper judgement though. Played it some more and... not really liking it very much. I mean it's pretty good - for a Wii game. Now I'm not saying that just to try and stir shit, the fact of the matter is most of the Wii games I've played have given me far less enjoyment than most of the 360 and PS3 games I've played. The obvious exception being both Mario Galaxy games. I find the controls to be awkward, first of all using the d-pad in a 3d environment is a nightmare, why the hell couldn't they have included the nunchuck. It's fine in the corridors, but when you're out in an open area trying to fight tougher enemies it's annoying as hell. I'm trying to think what advantage the Wii remote controls add over a standard controller and can't really think of any, perhaps the FPS bits, but even then switching between the two can sometimes be a nightmare, especially having to do it quickly. I'll play it some more to see if it grows on me but I can tell you know, I'm pleased I payed less than a tenner for this (although at the moment even that seems a bit too pricy...)!
Burny Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 (edited) I find the controls to be awkward, first of all using the d-pad in a 3d environment is a nightmare, That's the complaint about Other M I can understand the least. I've played third person adventure type of games with analog stick controls and I could still practically play Other M in my sleep. What's the issue with the d-pad? It's not like you have to sneak diagonally anywhere in the game. The way the controls are handled with the d-pad and fixed camera angles is still what I consider the most impressive part of the game. Edited January 16, 2011 by Burny
Cube Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 The D-Pad controls in this are a massive step up from Team Ninja's usual standard. General walking/jumping is a colossal pain in the Ninja Gaiden games (although the combat is wonderful to control).
Eddage Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 That's the complaint about Other M I can understand the least. I've played third person adventure type of games with analog stick controls and I could still practically play Other M in my sleep. What's the issue with the d-pad? It's not like you have to sneak diagonally anywhere in the game. The way the controls are handled with the d-pad and fixed camera angles is still what I consider the most impressive part of the game. The main one is that it's more awkward having to constantly hold a button down rather than move a joystick around, it just doesn't feel right at all. Also, it may not be a necessity to have full 360 movement but I don't see how using the d-pad adds anything! Like I said, why couldn't they have incorporated the nunchuck?
or else you will DIE Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 The main one is that it's more awkward having to constantly hold a button down rather than move a joystick around, it just doesn't feel right at all. Also, it may not be a necessity to have full 360 movement but I don't see how using the d-pad adds anything! Like I said, why couldn't they have incorporated the nunchuck? Cuz they wanted it to feel like old school Metroid with the use and simplicity of a few buttons and a D pad. And it worked. Very well so.
D_prOdigy Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 Plus, I think just having the one controller really makes the 1st/3rd person alternating feel really good. I know a lot of people dislike that about the game, but I think it lends itself to the more skilled player. Dodging a shot, transferring straight into 1st person, firing a missile, dodging another shot and reverting straight back into first person to fire again feels really great if you can pull it off.
Burny Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 (edited) The main one is that it's more awkward having to constantly hold a button down rather than move a joystick around, it just doesn't feel right at all. Also, it may not be a necessity to have full 360 movement but I don't see how using the d-pad adds anything! Like I said, why couldn't they have incorporated the nunchuck? If you consider it awkward to hold a direction button down instead of constantly pushing a joystick in one direction, the only advise you can get is: Get over it. Any gamer with average motor skills should be able to handle this naturally within minutes. Also, the question isn't why they couldn't have used the nunchuck, but why they didn't want to, as the whole game is build around the wiimote without the nunchuck. Using the d-pad doesn't add anything. In the contrary, it takes away the smoothness of movement you get with joysticks. It makes movement in Other M extremely sharp. Samus either stands still or she flies through the levels. Cuz they wanted it to feel like old school Metroid with the use and simplicity of a few buttons and a D pad. And it worked. Very well so. I'd say it worked a lot better than in Super Metroid or Fusion (didn't play the other 2d ones). Using different shoulder buttons to aim diagonally up or down and having to cycle through weapons with Select was replaced with mechanics, that just seemed to better fit into the whole flow of the game. The main "quest" just went a bit too linear in comparison to Super Metroid... Edited January 16, 2011 by Burny
Eddage Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 If you consider it awkward to hold a direction button down instead of constantly pushing a joystick in one direction, the only advise you can get is: Get over it. Any gamer with average motor skills should be able to handle this naturally within minutes. Also, the question isn't why they couldn't have used the nunchuck, but why they didn't want to, as the whole game is build around the wiimote without the nunchuck. Using the d-pad doesn't add anything. In the contrary, it takes away the smoothness of movement you get with joysticks. It makes movement in Other M extremely sharp. Samus either stands still or she flies through the levels. I'd say it worked a lot better than in Super Metroid or Fusion (didn't play the other 2d ones). Using different shoulder buttons to aim diagonally up or down and having to cycle through weapons with Select was replaced with mechanics, that just seemed to better fit into the whole flow of the game. The main "quest" just went a bit too linear in comparison to Super Metroid... I can handle using the d-pad just fine, doesn't stop it being worse than an analogue stick though.
Grazza Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Completed it 100% (15 hours). It was enormous fun finding all the items (the maps became much more complex) and the post-game boss was the perfect balance of challenge and excitement. Nice reference too to my favourite Metroid, Zero Mission. It was also poignant. I think the whole voice cast acted it very well. I can understand people thinking 3D games should have analogue controls - that's my expectation too - but there comes a point in this game where you're running down corridors at blistering speeds and it's just fitting to keep it to the distinct inputs characteristic of a d-pad. Remember, the Metroid Prime series did not feature the Speed Boost, Shine Spark or the long corridors of the 2D games. Other M, on the other hand, includes everything associated with Metroid, and I would say the controls for the Shine Spark are actually the best yet out of all the Metroids. Frankly, the Prime series takes as much inspiration from the FPS genre as it does Metroid. The last 4 or 5 hours really brought me back on side, and I would say this is easily the most accurate attempt at putting Metroid in 3D yet.
James McGeachie Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Considering he was a supervisor for the entire Metroid Prime series, I sure hope he knew that kind of stuff about the Prime series. :p Supervisor or not (and I was aware of his role), he didn't follow it closely. He kept going on about that in Other M previews, trying to hype Other M by making it clear that he had very little input on the Prime series. In other words, how much of a chance is there he, for example, verified all the plot details in the hundreds of scan entries? Virtually none. It's probably easier for him to just write it out of his canon than bother thinking about what he could possibly contradict in Retro's games.
Captain Falcon Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 Supervisor or not (and I was aware of his role), he didn't follow it closely. He kept going on about that in Other M previews, trying to hype Other M by making it clear that he had very little input on the Prime series. Indeed. I'm not entirely sure on his level of input on those games. He only got listed in the special thanks section instead of getting his own title on the various projects. The fact he was so keen to distance the Prime series from Other M was almost like him admitting he didn't really have much involvement, couldn't say what really went on, but didn't matter either. All the stories you hear concerning NCLs input into Retro's work on the first Prime concern Miyamoto - and he never worked on any of the other games prior. Then with Echoes, it was all about Kensuke Tanabe who had work on A Link to the Past. Sakamoto's name hardly ever comes up.
Eddage Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) Just played it again for the first time since my last post... Just entered sector 3 for the second time, so have now got the speed boost, spineshark and wave beam. Also found out that one of the team is a traitor, think there's only 3 left alive though you didn't see who was thrown into the lava, so it could be Anthony, Adam, K.G. or David Beck... I mean James. Can't see it being Anthony (considering he's a foot taller than everyone else - you would've been able to tell), or Adam so my money is on Becks at the moment. I am starting to enjoy it a bit more, but I'm still finding dome aspects slightly annoying, hopefully it'll continue to get better... Edited January 21, 2011 by Eddage
Kav Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 For anyone that hasn't yet played the game on Hard Mode, go for it! I found it even better on Hard! I just loved the increase in challenge!
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