Left 4 Dead 2

[LegoMan1031]

Just watched the finale http://xbox360.qj.net/Left-4-Dead-2-Finale-gameplay-video-no-crossover-between-L4D-1-and-2-says-Lombardi/pg/49/aid/132723 it looks pretty good. Though the charger looks a bit crappy but then again so are all the others when they're out in the open. It's probably more of a close quarters special infected. Apparently there are going to be at least 3 or 4 more. Maybe the Screamer will come back in a different form.

 

Videos wont play for me, how annoying. I shall prob look on youtube for them.

 

I'll be getting the 2nd game as the 1st one was awesome. Havn't done any levels on expert yet me an 2 mates getting our arses wipped

 

I haven't managed to complete any on expert either and trust me, i have tried!

[Dyson]

Yes we have - that was a hilarious yet frustrating sessions Mike!

[LegoMan1031]

Yes we have - that was a hilarious yet frustrating sessions Mike!

 

Haha, oh yes it defo was!

 

We should defo have another session on it sometime!

[Dyson]

Absolutely. It's a rental for me so it'll e sent back soon but would like to scrub a few more achievements off of it before I send it back!

[Hero-of-Time]

Chet Faliszek has said that Valve was baffled by complaints on the Houston Chronicle website recently about "racist undertones" in Left 4 Dead 2.

 

In a blog earlier this month, Chronicle writer Willie Jefferson said that L4D2 was "already causing an uproar" - maybe true, but not for the reason Jefferson suggested, at least as far as we've seen.

 

"Set in New Orleans, players will have to fight their way through hordes of zombies - with several of them who appear to be African-Americans. When I saw the first trailer for the game, all I could think about was Hurricane Katrina and the aftermath," he wrote.

 

"Setting the game in a city that was scene of dead, bloated bodies floating by so soon afterward was a bad call, IMHO. The city has had enough to deal with - Valve, you should have spared them, even if it's just a video game."

 

Faliszek, speaking to Destructoid, described the piece as "utter insanity".

 

"There are mixed races of zombies, there are all different races of zombies that you shoot, and since we placed it in New Orleans, that makes it racist?" he responded.

 

"I honestly re-read the paragraph about five times ... but when two of the characters in your game are African-American, it's a weird thing to be accused of. We're like, 'how does this work'?"

 

Indeed, said Faliszek, Valve was treating the city with the "utmost respect", and deied the company was trying to make a statement. "We would not cheapen it," he said. "I love that city."

 

This whole racism is videogames debate is just getting stupid now.

[LegoMan1031]

This whole racism is videogames debate is just getting stupid now.

 

Totally, it pisses me off so much. Ive fented my frustrations about this to my girlfriend before now.

 

Its only a video game! Its like Res 5 being set in Africa and oh shock it had black zombies in it! Oh Resident evil 4 is racist! Your killing spanish ppl! Resident Evil 0,1,2,3 there racist! Your killing white americans!!

 

You could be so picky with almost everygame if u wanted 2.

 

[Dan_Dare]

What a bunch of shit.

 

also: what the fuck kind of 'journalist' uses the term 'IMHO'!? Hack assholes, that's who.

[Tellyn]

If I remember correctly, N'gai kicked off this whole "black zombies are racist" thing when he commented on Resi 5.

[Dan_Dare]

I think he went on to discuss it better in Edge though.

 

I liked that guy. shame he left journalism for a real job

[nightwolf]

I don't know why people are complaining about a new game, I mean yes it's going to cost the full amount, but honestly, its a year! A year is quick and thats awesome and whats to stop you still playing L4D1?

 

I don't know, I'd definately get both, I do for alot of series of games, its never been an issue before.

 

*shrugs*

 

The racism gig = bullshit, as mentioned. There's always going to be somebody who is unhappy, let them be I like it.

[Cube]

The people complaining are the real racists.

 

(About the zombies, not the game existing)

[Daft]

Its like Res 5 being set in Africa and oh shock it had black zombies in it!

 

I think Yatzee summed it up in his review best;

 

"But let’s close this review with a revisit of that lovely matter of racism that’s been hanging around like a bad smell. RE5 actually does a lot to defer that accusation. Your partner is black (a bit), quite a few whiteys are scattered throughout the early hordes, and real effort has been put into a somewhat realistic and sympathetic depiction of modern Africa. And then... Halfway through the game, we suddenly find ourselves in a succession of mud hut villages fighting crowds of jabbering black people in loincloths and war paint, chucking spears. Oh, dears. Talk about sidestepping a pothole only to fall off a bridge."

 

This stuff about L4D2 however, seems absurd.

[Shino]

I think Yatzee summed it up in his review best;

 

"But let’s close this review with a revisit of that lovely matter of racism that’s been hanging around like a bad smell. RE5 actually does a lot to defer that accusation. Your partner is black (a bit), quite a few whiteys are scattered throughout the early hordes, and real effort has been put into a somewhat realistic and sympathetic depiction of modern Africa. And then... Halfway through the game, we suddenly find ourselves in a succession of mud hut villages fighting crowds of jabbering black people in loincloths and war paint, chucking spears. Oh, dears. Talk about sidestepping a pothole only to fall off a bridge."

 

This stuff about L4D2 however, seems absurd.

 

What's the problem with that?

[Daft]

What's the problem with that?

 

I started typing a response but if I have to explain it then I'm probably wasting my time. I don't want to get dragged into defending what I'm saying with more specific example that I can't supply off the top of my head. I'm not that bothered. The game a lot of loaded imagery though, and it doesn't have to be intentional to be problematic.

[Shino]

People are digging problems were there isn't any.

[Daft]

People are digging problems were there aren't any.

 

The problem is the other way around. People, explicitly gamers in this case, form opinions that aren't informed. Do you really know the issues that underline racism, for example what 'whiteness' is? And how it developed over the past hundreds of year? And again how that has evolved through globalisation and interpretations in the media? I've only been studying the issue for a year and I still don't fully grasp it.

 

Gamers who comment on the issue seem to have become armchair anthropological experts and the subject might seem arcane and theoretical to them but to others it is real and lethal. Ignorance is bliss, though.

[Shino]

 

The problem is the other way around. People, explicitly gamers in this case, form opinions that aren't informed. Do you really know the issues that underline racism, for example what 'whiteness' is? And how it developed over the past hundreds of year? And again how that has evolved through globalisation and interpretations in the media? I've only been studying the issue for a year and I still don't fully grasp it.

 

Gamers who comment on the issue seem to have become armchair anthropological experts and the subject might seem arcane and theoretical to them but to others it is real and lethal. Ignorance is bliss, though.

 

So you're saying that those scenes in RE5 will harm anyone? I don't pretend to be an expert on anything but I believe that people reading to much into this stuff is what turns it worse and creates actual censorship due to political correctness, anything could be offensive if you real want to.

 

I really don't see how what is described in the game could have any real impact in anyone's life.

 

Edit: DeathJam, since you're thanking every post from Daft and knowing that you're black, can you give me a hand too?

[Daft]

So you're saying that those scenes in RE5 will harm anyone? I don't pretend to be an expert on anything but I believe that people reading to much into this stuff is what turns it worse and creates actual censorship due to political correctness, anything could be offensive if you real want to.

 

I really don't see how what is described in the game could have any real impact in anyone's life.

 

Edit: DeathJam, since you're thanking every post from Daft and knowing that you're black, can you give me a hand too?

 

Explicitly harming anyone? That's unlikely. It's about acceptability and norms. For example the word "gay" is a label referring to one's sexuality. The pejorative use of that word, even though it may have nothing whatsoever to do with some's sexuality, has negative implications for the label. Taking that example of sexuality even further, the general consensus may be that we live in a pretty tolerant society, and that being homosexual is accepted, but we still live in an explicitly heteronormative society which can be very alienating.

 

RE5 isn't racist propaganda. It's just ignorant and ignoring the implicit messages, and like I said whether it is intended or not and I very much doubt it is, is a very dangerous thing.

 

You simply cannot underestimate the power of media. The most powerful person in Hollywood, according to the Hollywood Reporter (I think it was), is Rupert Murdoch. Steven Spielberg, at number 3, was the only director in the top 10. I'm rambling now, and that is a completely half made point there, but I'm just trying to get across that people learn by living and video games, just like films, just like newspapers and so on have as much chance, maybe even more, of influencing you as any realised, conscious decision.

 

 

---

It's a very interesting topic and one I could go on and on about (and be revising idea all the time, apologies for the pretty lame post above). It isn't as simple as saying people read too much into it, though. Not many things are that simple, certainly not the subject of racism.

[Deathjam]

So you're saying that those scenes in RE5 will harm anyone? I don't pretend to be an expert on anything but I believe that people reading to much into this stuff is what turns it worse and creates actual censorship due to political correctness, anything could be offensive if you real want to.

 

I really don't see how what is described in the game could have any real impact in anyone's life.

 

Edit: DeathJam, since you're thanking every post from Daft and knowing that you're black, can you give me a hand too?

 

He spoke sense so I thanked him. He is one of the few that doesn't just look at the material and make a snap judgement, like the people who accused the game of racism, or the gamer's who denounced any inclination of said issue in it's defence. It's not racist, but some things in the game are clearly insensitive and stereotypical. Luckily, the people who were crying racist didn't get to see the mudhut level.

 

EDIT: went a bit overboard on the thanks. Only one is necessary.

Edited August 2, 2009 by Deathjam

[dwarf]

Everyone makes mis-informed decisions about everything and it's forgiveable.

 

However I think after the recent conflicts involving racism it seems a lot of people started to get annoyed with it, almost angry that everything had become 'racist' when really it's just a matter of remaining sensitive on the topic and trying to avoid more unwanted attention on the matter.

 

I think people may be too quick to dismiss racism ideologies, there are a lot of tricky areas to the whole shebang. Yes it can seem like a lot of fuss is kicked up over nothing but there are issues with Resi 5 that are worth bringing up, and when a black man says that they don't take offense to the game it doesn't excuse the problem.

[LegoMan1031]

I can see your point there Daft, i never really looked at it from that point of view before. Thank you for widening my eyes and pointing that out.

 

(incase anyone is wondering if that comment was sarcastic then i can tell you no it's not.)

[Daft]

It's not a simple subject, hence the "people read too much into it" answer really not being adequate, and there are so many things to consider it is tempting to just be flippant about it.

 

I think it's quite sad that it is the norm to let something like RE5 accepted so readily. What it should do is open up a dialogue, which to some degree it has. There is still a long way to go.

 

 

As Jiddu Krishnamurti said; “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.”

[nightwolf]

Leaked video.

 

I'm looking forward to playing this at leeds.

 

[Cube]

The demo is out on the 27th for Pre-orderers, and a week later for Gold members.

 

I still play the first quite often, even if the DLC was weak.

[McPhee]

Is that the PC demo? Might have to pop in an order Putting out the 360 demo on Modern Warfare 2 launch day seems like a dumb move...