G20 - Meltdown in the City

[rizz]

Well I don't believe in killing innocent people.

 

I don't think it's right or wrong to kill yourself for a cause. Rather stupid perhaps. At least I admire they have the conviction in their beliefs to do such a thing. Say if you were gonna starve yourself to death to make a point Fierce, I may not believe in your cause and I wouldn't want you to die, but it would be bravo for taking such a firm stand in what you believe in.

[LazyBoy]

 

That's lucky for you because the big marches are on the Wednesday.

 

http://www.g-20meltdown.org/node/1

 

Ha, Chinese language test on the Wednesday. Nice to know someone whos going. Give those corrupt bastards hell for me.

[Goafer]

Well I don't believe in killing innocent people.

 

I don't think it's right or wrong to kill yourself for a cause. Rather stupid perhaps. At least I admire they have the conviction in their beliefs to do such a thing. Say if you were gonna starve yourself to death to make a point Fierce, I may not believe in your cause and I wouldn't want you to die, but it would be bravo for taking such a firm stand in what you believe in.

 

This still goes down as the most amazing thing I have ever seen:

 

 

"As he burned he never moved a muscle, never uttered a sound, his outward composure in sharp contrast to the wailing people around him." David Halberstam.

 

 

Random trivia: Even after a proper cremation, his heart still didn't burn and is now considered holy. It is in a glass chalice at Xa Loi Pagoda.

 

 

 

And ReZ still won't burn his sock for the sake of our amusement...

Edited March 31, 2009 by Goafer

[Fierce_LiNk]

Well I don't believe in killing innocent people.

 

I don't think it's right or wrong to kill yourself for a cause. Rather stupid perhaps. At least I admire they have the conviction in their beliefs to do such a thing. Say if you were gonna starve yourself to death to make a point Fierce, I may not believe in your cause and I wouldn't want you to die, but it would be bravo for taking such a firm stand in what you believe in.

 

It is such a firm stance to take, and it is very extreme. But, what about those who lose sight of what the cause is, or fight or kill or destroy because of mob mentality? Yeah, a peaceful protest and a violent protest both do achieve certain results, but part of me (well, a lot of me) thinks that violent protesting just sends out a wrong message. In a way, I think it's very similar to bullying. However, if the aim is to catch the attention of others, then there is little better than this.

 

The problem I think is with leadership. More cares needs to be placed into bringing these people into power, and that way leaders are chosen with the confidence of the public behind them. Although, it might be pretty unattainable, as you can't please everyone.

[Pookiablo]

I got invited to the demo, not really one to protest though, more an observer. I think one leaflet said, "abolish all the nukes". Personally, there's more chance of getting a whale up your ass.

[rizz]

In a way, I think it's very similar to bullying.

 

See I am looking at it from the opposite angle, to me, it is fighting back against the bully!

[Daft]

Ha, Chinese language test on the Wednesday. Nice to know someone whos going. Give those corrupt bastards hell for me.

 

Fair enough. It's quite commitment if you aren't in London. I don't particularly want to go on my own so I'm going to try drag some friends with me.

 

This still goes down as the most amazing thing I have ever seen:

 

I did a presentation on the Vietnam War. The images that came out of that war are just amazing and harrowing.

 

It is such a firm stance to take, and it is very extreme. But, what about those who lose sight of what the cause is, or fight or kill or destroy because of mob mentality? Yeah, a peaceful protest and a violent protest both do achieve certain results, but part of me (well, a lot of me) thinks that violent protesting just sends out a wrong message. In a way, I think it's very similar to bullying. However, if the aim is to catch the attention of others, then there is little better than this.

 

If ordinary people, say if everyone on Wednesday went ape shit insane and burnt down the city, that surely that is hinting at a pretty massive problem. If normal people are prepared to resort to violence and destruction, what does that say?

 

The problem I think is with leadership. More cares needs to be placed into bringing these people into power, and that way leaders are chosen with the confidence of the public behind them. Although, it might be pretty unattainable, as you can't please everyone.

 

What do you propose? What do you think is wrong with the current system?

 

I got invited to the demo, not really one to protest though, more an observer.

 

How come? Why even observe?

[Daft]

I thought I'd post some pictures I took at the G20 protest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And just when you thought you were going to manage to avoid a picture of me, BAM! (Not sure what's going on with the hair tbh...)

 

 

And the RBS carnage,

 

 

 

 

Great weather. Fun day. I managed to bump into about eight different people I knew from university, which was pretty cool.

[LazyBoy]

Nice going lad, looks like a lot of fun, still annoyed I missed it.

[Ramar]

So what was the hoo har all about?.. How the banks have fucked us over? Or was it general bash the government stuff.

 

I've tried to ignore it, because protests happen so often now I don't take notice.

[Shino]

Seems like an awesome party.

[Dyson]

 

Ugh, V/anon, really?

[Daft]

Nice going lad, looks like a lot of fun, still annoyed I missed it.

 

We've always got May Day.

 

So what was the hoo har all about?.. How the banks have fucked us over? Or was it general bash the government stuff.

 

I've tried to ignore it, because protests happen so often now I don't take notice.

 

Different people were protesting for different reasons. There were four big marches. One about finance, which I was apart of. One about the environment. The 'Stop the War' march. And a fourth one that I have no idea what it was about. We all marched into the city.

 

I've already been on a protest with Stop the War and one on global warming last year so I thought I'd go with the zeitgeist march.

 

There were also other events taking place.

 

Seems like an awesome party.

 

It was very fun. Had a carnival feel. (When it wasn't kicking off.)

 

Ugh, V/anon, really?

 

There's always one! (Or 3, from what I saw.)

[weeyellowbloke]

Man, I wish I'd gone down. I was considering making a Father Ted style "Down with this sort of thing" banner so I would fit in with any march. The fourth march was against land enclosures and poverty by the way.

 

Anyway, I'm definately want to make my way down to some more of the protests this summer. I think it's sad though that it feels like there is a mood of desperation surrounding these protests. It's like this is the only way left to attempt to get our views heard even though the likelihood is that it'll get drowned out by cynasim and ignored by those in power. Still we can but try.

[Fierce_LiNk]

I haven't had time to properly reply to this...until now!

 

See I am looking at it from the opposite angle, to me, it is fighting back against the bully!

 

Ahh, so I think it does depend on the angle you look from. Right now, I'm thinking so many things around the subject but I can't quite place them into words, or audible grunts. For some reason, the saying "Two wrong's don't make a right" just sprang to mind. It does and doesn't apply, depending on which way you look at it.

 

If ordinary people, say if everyone on Wednesday went ape shit insane and burnt down the city, that surely that is hinting at a pretty massive problem. If normal people are prepared to resort to violence and destruction, what does that say?

 

I think I answered that in the next part of that post. The problem is that they're not happy with the decisions being made, the leadership involved, and just the way that the situation is panning out. There's just a lack of confidence between the public the people out there aiming to serve the public. The public have a right to be angry.

 

 

What do you propose? What do you think is wrong with the current system?

 

Well, I think the problem is that sometimes the leadership just doesn't seem to be...there. I don't think the media has/have helped, as a lot of the time it almost tries too hard to strike fear into the heart of the public. People want reassurance, and they want to be told that the situation is being dealt with confidently, and in the most responsible way. They haven't been told that, and it's no wonder that it has turned to rioting.

 

What would I do to resolve the situation? In all honesty, I don't know. But, I'm a 22year old Welsh trainee teacher, and a few days ago I ate 17p pineapple from a tin as my dinner. I haven't got the training, the experience, or the knowledge of where to begin to resolve a situation such as this. But, as an observer, I would want somebody who had all of those qualities to take a hold of this situation. I think that's what most people want.

[Daft]

I think it's sad though that it feels like there is a mood of desperation surrounding these protests. It's like this is the only way left to attempt to get our views heard even though the likelihood is that it'll get drowned out by cynasim and ignored by those in power. Still we can but try.

 

I totally agree.

 

I think I answered that in the next part of that post. The problem is that they're not happy with the decisions being made, the leadership involved, and just the way that the situation is panning out. There's just a lack of confidence between the public the people out there aiming to serve the public. The public have a right to be angry.

 

The problem is that no one is trying to serve the public. The whole political sector is rife with self interest. It's like what Charlie Brooker said on NewsWipe, being a politician isn't about serving your country any more.

 

 

Well, I think the problem is that sometimes the leadership just doesn't seem to be...there. I don't think the media has/have helped, as a lot of the time it almost tries too hard to strike fear into the heart of the public. People want reassurance, and they want to be told that the situation is being dealt with confidently, and in the most responsible way. They haven't been told that, and it's no wonder that it has turned to rioting.

 

The media is a form of social control. The church, schooling, the media, forms of popular culture, all play a part their part to instil subservience in society. People vary rarely question these institutions that are key to their interpretation of the world and all none of them are a product of the people. Bar possibly the church, they are all motivated by capitalism and the drive to make money. The media are part of the problem but people eat their shit up constantly.

 

When did people know what was good for them? They shouldn't have the situation sugar coated. What good does it serve except stopping people from thinking for themselves?

 

Just for the record, this isn't rioting.

 

What would I do to resolve the situation? In all honesty, I don't know. But, I'm a 22year old Welsh trainee teacher, and a few days ago I ate 17p pineapple from a tin as my dinner. I haven't got the training, the experience, or the knowledge of where to begin to resolve a situation such as this. But, as an observer, I would want somebody who had all of those qualities to take a hold of this situation. I think that's what most people want.

 

That is a crap answer. What kind of stupid excuse is that? You're not even trying. You're accepting, for some reason, that someone else is going to do the work for you.

 

You don't have a lot of money? And because of this you can't think for yourself? You haven't got experience? How? You live, don't you? You know what life is like. Are you just going to just sit there happy munching your 17p dinner while Jacqui Smith's husband can use your taxes to jack off? Or that other MP who has two houses for no reason?

 

You're an observer? An observer of what? Life? You are not an observer. You take part in society. You are part of the world. We all shape the world we live in, but since so many people have forgone their responsibility, as a society, we've lost this ability.

 

One man cannot change the world. Everyone has their part to play and it's this utterly stupid, ignorant, pathetic, "I would want somebody who had all of those qualities to take a hold of this situation"-"MEH" mentality that is totally unconstructive and self-destructive. You are undermining yourself so much. It's tragic.

 

It's infuriating because I'm pretty sure you are not stupid.

 

I'm sorry, I'm angry.

[EEVILMURRAY]

Daft, you mention that those things Flink have said doesn't excuse him. But I find myself in a similar position, what do you recommend for us pr0 low class to do? Except to stand around like sheep because it's bullshit.

 

Those who got violent at the protests = pricks.

 

Although I never see the point of protests on a whole to be honest. They rarely work and the big ones involve masses of students who really don't have a clue why they're there.

Edited April 2, 2009 by EEVILMURRAY

[Fierce_LiNk]

 

 

The problem is that no one is trying to serve the public. The whole political sector is rife with self interest. It's like what Charlie Brooker said on NewsWipe, being a politician isn't about serving your country any more.

 

Sometimes, I wonder why politicians become politicians. Maybe it is just a power or self-indulgent thing, but really it shouldn't be about that.

 

 

 

 

Just for the record, this isn't rioting.

 

I mainly just wanted to focus on this part of that section of your post. What exactly would need to happen to turn this into "rioting"? Yes, it was a very heated protest by the looks of things, but I'd personally class it as rioting.

 

 

 

That is a crap answer. What kind of stupid excuse is that? You're not even trying. You're accepting, for some reason, that someone else is going to do the work for you.

 

Just out of curiosity, have you looked back through the trail of posts that led to that response? At no point did I state that I was or ever had the intention of being a politician.

 

You don't have a lot of money? And because of this you can't think for yourself? You haven't got experience? How? You live, don't you? You know what life is like. Are you just going to just sit there happy munching your 17p dinner while Jacqui Smith's husband can use your taxes to jack off? Or that other MP who has two houses for no reason?

 

Personally, I think you've gone a bit too far and you might have lost sight of what my original point was.

 

I'll put it as simply as I can. I wouldn't expect Gordan Brown to stand infront of a room of year 6 pupils and expect him to teach a lesson on coastlines. Likewise, I have not had the necessary training or experience to do his job. My point merely pointed out that I have spent the last couple of years training to be a teacher, I've taken that path in life. That is my job. That is what I am best at doing. If I were to become a music technician, I would do a piss poor job, because I do not have the first clue about what this job entails. Just like I would not have the first clue about what it is like to be an accountant, a politician, a formula one driver, or a prime minister.

 

You asked me what would I propose to do, and I gave you my answer. Or, who you rather I just gave an ill-informed response?

 

You're an observer? An observer of what? Life? You are not an observer. You take part in society. You are part of the world. We all shape the world we live in, but since so many people have forgone their responsibility, as a society, we've lost this ability.

 

The paragraph before my post was refering to the fact that the public wanted reassurance. As an observer, meaning as a part of that public, of that society. That society looking towards a leadership or direction.

 

One man cannot change the world. Everyone has their part to play and it's this utterly stupid, ignorant, pathetic, "I would want somebody who had all of those qualities to take a hold of this situation"-"MEH" mentality that is totally unconstructive and self-destructive. You are undermining yourself so much. It's tragic.

 

Sorry, what? Again, going back to previous posts, we were talking about leadership. I gave you (some of) the qualities of what I thought a good leader needed to have in this situation.

 

It's infuriating because I'm pretty sure you are not stupid.

 

 

Again: What?

 

Honestly can't believe I wasted my time replying to this. You may be angry, but I genuinely found a lot of that post disrespectful. So, keep your apology.

[Daft]

Daft, you mention that those things Flink have said doesn't excuse him. But I find myself in a similar position, what do you recommend for us pr0 low class to do? Except to stand around like sheep because it's bullshit.

 

As opposed to the alternative of doing what you're doing now? Living like a mindless zombie? Your attitude is self destructive. If as many people who had this pessimistic view actually did something, protested, the numbers would have been in the millions.

 

I'd like to see the government ignore that quite so successfully.

 

It's your life, though. If you don't give a shit, then you don't give a shit.

 

Those who got violent at the protests = pricks.

 

Although I never see the point of protests on a whole to be honest. They rarely work and the big ones involve masses of students who really don't have a clue why they're there.

 

Very few protesters got violent. Of the people who got arrested, I assure you, most of them are anarchists.

 

keep your apology.

 

No problem.

[EEVILMURRAY]

As opposed to the alternative of doing what you're doing now? Living like a mindless zombie? Your attitude is self destructive. If as many people who had this pessimistic view actually did something, protested, the numbers would have been in the millions.

Yes, as opposed to what I'm doing now.

 

Mainly because of this:

That is a crap answer. What kind of stupid excuse is that? You're not even trying. You're accepting, for some reason, that someone else is going to do the work for you.

I have glanced earlier posts, so I don't know what the excuse is being used for. But I'm going to use something similar. I scrape about £100 a week, then home expenses on top. I know I'm not going to make fuck all of a difference, and I don't want to try at the moment... I can't even seem to get the US Embassy to give me a fucking visa, so if you think I'm going to waste money going to London to stand around outside the Bank of England with my thumb up my arse hoping it would make a difference then you're sadly mistaken. I don't care how many others there may be.

[Daft]

I have glanced earlier posts, so I don't know what the excuse is being used for. But I'm going to use something similar. I scrape about £100 a week, then home expenses on top. I know I'm not going to make fuck all of a difference, and I don't want to try at the moment... I can't even seem to get the US Embassy to give me a fucking visa, so if you think I'm going to waste money going to London to stand around outside the Bank of England with my thumb up my arse hoping it would make a difference then you're sadly mistaken. I don't care how many others there may be.

 

You're right. It is a bit of a commitment to travel to London just for this. I guess I'm more annoyed at this pretty common idea that everything is futile. It may be in the end, but if we have that attitude then there really is no chance to change, at all.

[Paj!]

I believe in the power of love.

[Molly]

What would I do to resolve the situation? In all honesty, I don't know.

You're accepting, for some reason, that someone else is going to do the work for you.

At no point did I state that I was or ever had the intention of being a politician.

 

Just picked out one example of where I think the point has been missed. I don't think Daft is suggesting you should be a politician or should have all the answers, just that by caring and actually standing up for what you believe in can make a difference. If we all have an attitude of indifference and don't question the people who govern our country, what's the point in democracy? Anyway, I like the idea of peaceful protest and I think the attitude of ''What can one person really do'' is just depressing beyond belief.

[Paj!]

Just picked out one example of where I think the point has been missed. I don't think Daft is suggesting you should be a politician or should have all the answers, just that by caring and actually standing up for what you believe in can make a difference. If we all have an attitude of indifference and don't question the people who govern our country, what's the point in democracy? Anyway, I like the idea of peaceful protest and I think the attitude of ''What can one person really do'' is just depressing beyond belief.

 

I have the overwhelming urge to sing Circle Of Life now. Not the shit Elton John version, the Carmen Twilie/Lebo.M classic.

[Choze]

Seems like the protesters are being demonised.

 

I believe in the power of love.

 

I think the posters here are aiming for a deeper discussion.

 

Abit of an overused line nowadays.

 

You're right. It is a bit of a commitment to travel to London just for this. I guess I'm more annoyed at this pretty common idea that everything is futile. It may be in the end, but if we have that attitude then there really is no chance to change, at all.

 

Precisely. People simply are not active enough. People are too cynical, lethargic and pessimistic that they dont care.

 

Checks and balances. If people dont stand up then expect others to take advantage of those who dont.

Edited April 2, 2009 by Choze
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