Grazza Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 In fact, as it's S-E, not being able to realize their "vision" properly due to lacking processing power is most likely the least of their problems. That's the difference between publishers and developers. Developers are still capable of creating great games, but the publishers limit what they can achieve (by putting the games on weaker consoles, for instance, or making them MMOs). If it helps them to get away from horribly overused cliches, hair-raisingly over-engineered stories, random battles and androgynous characters in their early teens with eyes like ponds, they can make it into a text adventure for all I care. It doesn't sound like you've played Dragon Quest VIII. If you think the characters are androgynous, you haven't seen Jessica do a Puff-Puff!
Burny Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 It doesn't sound like you've played Dragon Quest VIII. If you think the characters are androgynous, you haven't seen Jessica do a Puff-Puff! I'm fine with Dragon Quest's style. There's ample supply of other JRPGs though that are horrible in this respect (Tales *cough*). As for DQVIII: I watched some gameplay footage and I have no more patience for random battles and even less for watching turn based fights in 3D games with lavishly animated attacks. I couldn't stand through ten minutes of it. If you want a really good JRPG, you should get Xenoblade.
Debug Mode Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Someone was bored today. Dragon Quest III screenshots... Awww Ah well, would have mostly been a gimmick if it did turn out to be true.
Grazza Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 If you want a really good JRPG, you should get Xenoblade. I've got it. I don't like it.
Sheikah Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 As an investor, I'd probably want S-E to announce that henceforth Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy main series entries are to be iPhone exclusives. Because I wouldn't have the slightest idea about video games. As me, I don't care in the slightest. I see nothing where JRPGs on so called "high-def" systems have evolved beyond anything that was doable last generation. In fact, as it's S-E, not being able to realize their "vision" properly due to lacking processing power is most likely the least of their problems. Not making the game shit seems to be a far more pressing problem for them and going by their track record on "HD"-systems, that's rather unrelated to the platform their games are on. No, I don't care about the resolution, lack of AA, advanced shaders and the likes. We're talking about DQ here, the series that is so polished and unchanging (apart from now, it seems) that it prints money.The comparisons to non DQ SE titles on HD consoles are really farfetched, as FF has blown big time for reasons completely different to 'graphics'. Given how polished DQVIII was, to really improve this they could have gone to town on it and produced a HD iteration a la Ni No Kuni. Honestly, I find it pretty unbeliable that anyone wouldn't prefer the game to look like the latter screenshot than the former: I know the game will probably be good, I just don't like the fact that it's limited by the hardware it's on. I should also add that - after playing through IV - I don't care much for Dragon Quest to begin with. I liked the style, how the story is rather down to earth for JRPGs and the simple battle system. I strongly disliked the amount of grinding I had to do and the random battles could drive me up a wall. On the other hand, I'm loving Xenoblade and while I might consider an HD-remake of that for the WiiU I wouldn't enjoy the game any more or less for it. It's funny you should say that, Xenoblade is easily going to equal the 100+ hours I spent on DQVIII! Whether it's grinding or menial fetch quests, they all take time, but oddly have their charms.
flameboy Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 So it's going to be kinda like DQIX? Sweeet! Subscription fee's? Whuuuuhh. Although it's an ORPG (Like Phantasy Star), I really hope the gameplay online is smooth because games like Brawl have been terrible online. I'm so glad I repurchased a Wii yesterday. Dunno if this has been posted: http://www.destructoid.com/dragon-quest-x-must-be-played-online-will-have-usage-fee-210698.phtml But yeah...although Monster Hunter did have subscription fees in Japan 800 points for 30 days and it didn't here or US so we may get away with it where it is not as regulary accepted that we would pay for such things... Can't help but think with Square-Enix's past of MMO's and Nintendo's lack of online credentials making this game exclusively online is a bit worrying for fans of the series. I'm still yet to pick up the most recent one but enjoyed Chapters of Chosen and Joker (yeah not technically a proper DQ game)
Pit-Jr Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Ni No Kuni is a great example of what DQ will eventually look like. It would be great if the Wii U version approached that level of visual excellence. Luckily graphics have always taken a backseat in the Dragon Quest series yet the games are always consistently solid. Even the original NES game is still bearable to look at.
darksnowman Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 So we're all cool that its an MMO, its just the fact that its not on either the PS3 or 360 thats the issue? I thought everyone had come to terms with that since DQ X was initially announced for Wii and then reconfirmed for it.
Pit-Jr Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 No i think the MMO / subscription thing is an unnecessary barrier. I was fine with it being a Wii/U title
Sheikah Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 So we're all cool that its an MMO, its just the fact that its not on either the PS3 or 360 thats the issue? I thought everyone had come to terms with that since DQ X was initially announced for Wii and then reconfirmed for it. After Phantasy Star Online and Demon's Souls I don't mind the idea of playing the game with other people. What would be an issue is if the online was handled really badly, but time will tell. And yeah, the visuals are pretty poor by today's standards.
Patch Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Instead, I will buy a PS3 + Ni No Kuni and and just dream about what DQX could have been, hoping that Square Enix see sense and get Level 5 to make Dragon Quest XI for the PS4. One day, I may finally play a game that enchants me as much as DQ VIII, but I fear that will be decades away. Spoken from a broken heart. Cheer up Grazza! Why is needing an internet connection a problem, assuming you have one? You didn't mention the fees, so it's probably not that. Luckily graphics have always taken a backseat in the Dragon Quest series yet the games are always consistently solid. Even the original NES game is still bearable to look at. Yes. I have limited experience with DQ games, but the objective with the graphics has always seemed to be one of making them pleasing to the eye rather than pushing the envelope. The likeable charm, the epic scale, the traditional gameplay, the side-quests, the after-game quests, the rousing orchestral soundtrack, the occasional moments of hilarity and surrealness - these are what made DQVIII so memorable to me and there's no reason they can't do all of that in DQX. The MMO aspect may well turn out to be the greatest addition to DQ and could very well catapult the game into meteoric sales (in the West) if done well. I'm excited at the possibilities and looking forward to seeing more of the game. It's early days yet. When the game comes out and I manage to convince you it's 'just like Landstalker', you'll buy it, love it and we'll have a laugh re-reading that post of yours.
killer kirby Posted September 6, 2011 Author Posted September 6, 2011 Luckily graphics have always taken a backseat in the Dragon Quest series yet the games are always consistently solid. Even the original NES game is still bearable to look at. It's fun looking back into the history of DQ and seeing what it became. DQI DQII DQIII DQIV DQV DQVI DQVII DQVIII DQIX It's one of the reasons why I love the series, it never was about the graphics, but was more about the charm, it's perhaps the one of the few 3rd party games you could be fooled into thinking it was a game made by Nintendo. Each game tries to out perform the one before it and tries to bring new features into each game, as well as usually pushing the limit of not only the system but the genre itself. It was thanks to DQIX that my standards for RPG's on handheld have risen so high.
Burny Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 (edited) Honestly, I find it pretty unbeliable that anyone wouldn't prefer the game to look like the latter screenshot than the former: You'll probably have a hard time finding anyone who would say no to a technically better version of the games they like. It's just downright silly complaining that the Wii will hamper this particular game beyond visuals though. Mechanics in JRPGs haven't gone anywhere where devs cannot follow with the Wii - least of all in Dragon Quest, as you say yourself. If Xenoblade is anything to go by, given the right dev it's much less the case of following, but rather of charging ahead. So its chances of being good will only hampered by S-E, rather than the Wii. It's funny you should say that, Xenoblade is easily going to equal the 100+ hours I spent on DQVIII! Whether it's grinding or menial fetch quests, they all take time, but oddly have their charms. The length is definitely not the issue. The way it flows is the issue for me. if I spend 100+ hours on a game choosing when to tackle monsters or simply ignoring them if I don't feel like it or if I spend that time interrupted every 30-40 seconds on the field - if it even is that long - by a random combat, makes a huge difference for me. It's also a huge difference what the motivation behind the grind is and how much grind there is in relation to story content. Newer DQs might be much better, but DQIV had too little story and too much grind for me. On the other hand, I spent a fair amount of time grinding in Infinite Space - even with random battles, but in relation to the amount of story progression, it wasn't actually that much and random battles happened rather infrequently. And whenever Xenoblade tasks you with doing "grindy" stuff, which is mostly optional, it has the grace to give you an incentive for it - often some progressive side story. I've got it. I don't like it. Knew these people existed somewhere. I would very much like to know what you don't like, because you've been far too vocal about wanting stuff like an open world Zelda to just "not like" Xenoblade, just because. Might be just a bit too far off topic for this thread. Edited September 6, 2011 by Burny
Sheikah Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 (edited) It's one of the reasons why I love the series, it never was about the graphics, but was more about the charm, it's perhaps the one of the few 3rd party games you could be fooled into thinking it was a game made by Nintendo. Each game tries to out perform the one before it and tries to bring new features into each game, as well as usually pushing the limit of not only the system but the genre itself. It was thanks to DQIX that my standards for RPG's on handheld have risen so high. If you look at that picture of DQVIII it was indeed quite groundbreaking for the time, and as you say they have previously tried to push the system to the limits. Basically, if the screenshot of DQX we have seen is also how it will look on the Wii U then they're not pushing the system anymore, unfortunately. Ni No Kuni has 10 times more charm than DQX from what little we've seen so far, might I add! You'll probably have a hard time finding anyone who would say no to a technically better version of the games they like. It's just downright silly complaining that the Wii will hamper this particular game beyond visuals though. Mechanics in JRPGs haven't gone anywhere where devs cannot follow with the Wii - least of all in Dragon Quest, as you say yourself. If Xenoblade is anything to go by, given the right dev it's much less the case of following, but rather of charging ahead. So its chances of being good will only hampered by S-E, rather than the Wii. It would be downright silly, hence I never complained about anything other than visuals. Which for many, particularly those with HDTVs, means something. I get quite fed up of the associated stigma with wanting better graphics - I just prefer games to not be limited by hardware (then you can at least criticise the developer), or look blurry on my TV and a decade old. DQVIII blew me away at the time in more ways than one, what's the harm with wanting that again? By releasing games on better hardware you can have everything it would have had gameplay-wise plus more. Hence it's really quite obvious why I'd prefer if one version wasn't come to Wii. Edited September 6, 2011 by Sheikah
Burny Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 DQVIII blew me away at the time in more ways than one, what's the harm with wanting that again? Outlandish expectations - that's wrong with that. Are you blown away by Ni no kuni? I'd be surprised, as it doesn't seem to go technically beyond anything that has been done so far. It's just a well used and striking visual style. And as you are merely talking about the visuals, there is even less left to be blown away by now. Shooters take the crown for visual fidelity and huge RPGs - open world or not - have been and can be done on practically all platforms by now. All that's left to blow us away is making the game especially good. Unless the same game with better visuals makes the difference between being good and being blown away for you. It doesn't for me. Basically saying you don't want Wii-only players to have the game because you don't like the way Wii games look on your TV is also rather selfish. If it appeases you: Given the game is different enough from past DQs for me, I would take the WiiU version over the Wii version any day - for my modern TV, you know.
darksnowman Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Are you blown away by Ni no kuni? I'd be surprised, as it doesn't seem to go technically beyond anything that has been done so far. It's just a well used and striking visual style. And as you are merely talking about the visuals, there is even less left to be blown away by now. Shooters take the crown for visual fidelity and huge RPGs - open world or not - have been and can be done on practically all platforms by now. The Mario Galaxies blew me away. Right now, the Bionis Leg area in Xenoblade is blowing me away. Yes, I lead a sheltered gaming life.
Hero-of-Time Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 The Mario Galaxies blew me away. Right now, the Bionis Leg area in Xenoblade is blowing me away. Indeed. I will also add that both Uncharted games blew me away.
Sheikah Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Outlandish expectations - that's wrong with that. Yeah, crazy, ridiculous expectations, seeing that DQVIII already did. It really did look quite special for the time. Given they've done it before, there's nothing really outlandish about my expectations at all. Are you blown away by Ni no kuni? I'd be surprised, as it doesn't seem to go technically beyond anything that has been done so far. And why is that? Do you know anything about the game other than the screenshot? And yes, the style is amazing, while I know nothing of the mechanics of the game I'd be willing to try it out. Good developers involved at least. Basically saying you don't want Wii-only players to have the game because you don't like the way Wii games look on your TV is also rather selfish. No. I'm saying it's a shame that they opted to release it on a console that has limited the potential of the game. Nothing about wanting to take the game away from anyone at all!
Grazza Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Spoken from a broken heart. Cheer up Grazza! Why is needing an internet connection a problem, assuming you have one? You didn't mention the fees, so it's probably not that. I've got a constant Ethernet connection, but not somewhere I could play the Wii. I just don't fancy/can't imagine playing a whole game over Wi-Fi. Without getting into too many details, if I am to play this, I'll have to make a few changes to my Wi-Fi set-up, or (ideally) get a 2nd Ethernet/Fibre-Optic port (which is something I hope the Wii U can connect to, incidentally). I sure hope it's worth it! It's early days yet. When the game comes out and I manage to convince you it's 'just like Landstalker', you'll buy it, love it and we'll have a laugh re-reading that post of yours. Thanks for cheering me up.
killer kirby Posted September 6, 2011 Author Posted September 6, 2011 Basically, if the screenshot of DQX we have seen is also how it will look on the Wii U then they're not pushing the system anymore, unfortunately. Ni No Kuni has 10 times more charm than DQX from what little we've seen so far, might I add! See saying that is not fair, Ni No Kuni has been shown countless times and was announced a fair while ago, DQX just got announced and only really one official pic has been shown. Also charm doesn't go through graphics alone, DQIII, DQV and DQVII had more charm then DQVIII. As someone on another forum said VIII still looks great. Have you seen it upscaled through emulation. Looks better than most of this so-called "next-gen" roid rage Madden and shooter bullshit. You don't always need the latest and greatest hardware to achieve your art direction goals. Sometimes it doesn't matter if you use Photoshop 5 or CS 5 as long as you've got the skills. The game has months, it's going to be polished and it's going to be presented as a God tier for Wii games.
Sheikah Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Again, they can polish it as much as they want but it's still going to be limited by the fact it's on Wii. Nothing more to add here without repeating the same thing over and over.
Burny Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 (edited) And why is that? Do you know anything about the game other than the screenshot? And yes, the style is amazing, while I know nothing of the mechanics of the game I'd be willing to try it out. Good developers involved at least. From the brief trailer linked here, I can already assume that it is technically structured like a traditional JRPG: An overworld to travel (a very charming one at that!), towns and other places of interest seem to be separate from the overworld and are entered through spots on it, the camera in these places seems to be at least partly fixed, fights take place in special "arena levels" and seem to be partly turn based. So yes, technically there is a lot to be seen in that trailer and nothing strikes me as out of the ordinary. I've got a constant Ethernet connection, but not somewhere I could play the Wii. I just don't fancy/can't imagine playing a whole game over Wi-Fi. If it cheers you up anymore, I can tell you that there is nothing wrong with playing over a WiFi connection from my experience. We've got a really slow-ass connection (~45kByte/s down, ~7kByte/s up, latency seems to be decent though) and stuff like Counterstrike and Mario Kart played just fine over Wi-Fi. A Wi-Fi router would be a good investment in any case, if you haven't got one already. You can use it for a Smartphone, for a Laptop, for the Wii and for the PS3 you're about to get (although that has an ethernet port ). Edited September 7, 2011 by Burny
Sheikah Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 (edited) From the brief trailer linked here, I can already assume that it is technically structured like a traditional JRPG: An overworld to travel (a very charming one at that!), towns and other places of interest seem to be separate from the overworld and are entered through spots on it, the camera in these places seems to be at least partly fixed, fights take place in special "arena levels" and seem to be partly turn based. So yes, technically there is a lot to be seen in that trailer and nothing strikes me as out of the ordinary. so from your present tense I take you only just checked whether what you said was BS? I find it odd that you use fixed camera angles as something to slate, as free camera control is also widely used in RPGs. As for seamless overworlds, I sense this is coming from xenoblade. Xenoblade still has fixed areas connected by load screens. And how does it manage to fit a town with some field around it? That's easy, the towns are merely shells with NPCs loitering around. The buildings have next to no detail and you can't go in them (aside from one!). I'm sorry, as much as I love the game, a lot of the mechanics are like those in FFXII (ie non original). Also take into account that games like Eternal Sonata at face value would appear to have an average old tales battle system. Except when you play, you realise it's much more. Although really none of this matters. It still stands to fact that whatever DQX could be made to be on Wii, it could be all that plus more on a better format. Which was the initial point, but some people seem to find this outrageous. Edited September 7, 2011 by Sheikah
Patch Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 I've got a constant Ethernet connection, but not somewhere I could play the Wii. I just don't fancy/can't imagine playing a whole game over Wi-Fi. Without getting into too many details, if I am to play this, I'll have to make a few changes to my Wi-Fi set-up, or (ideally) get a 2nd Ethernet/Fibre-Optic port (which is something I hope the Wii U can connect to, incidentally). I sure hope it's worth it! Like Burny, I play over WiFi (with a wireless router) and while some games perform vastly better than others, it's generally been fine. I've played Mario Kart without a single connection issue so far. Obviously there are many factors to take into account, but I'm pretty confident my router will hold up to the game. Try the WiFi first (no additional cost presumably), and if that fails, try the Ethernet method. If that fails, who knows, perhaps by then the game will feature a limited or non-online mode. Thanks for cheering me up. You're welcome. It's still early days and I have a reasonable amount of confidence that it won't be a total train wreck of a game.
Ike Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 I've got a constant Ethernet connection, but not somewhere I could play the Wii. I just don't fancy/can't imagine playing a whole game over Wi-Fi. Without getting into too many details, if I am to play this, I'll have to make a few changes to my Wi-Fi set-up, or (ideally) get a 2nd Ethernet/Fibre-Optic port (which is something I hope the Wii U can connect to, incidentally). I sure hope it's worth it! Just get a home plug + LAN adapter. I use one and it works great.
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