Reggie says: Hardcore Gamers are "Insatiable"

[Grazza]

I've got mixed feelings about this. First of all, the conference was pretty good and I didn't realise there had been a negative reaction to it. There was Sin & Punishment 2 (a series which only enthusiasts would know about), as well as a faithful looking continuation of Punch Out and also the much desired "new IP" like Dynamic Slash.

 

However, if Nintendo really thought any one of those games was as exciting as a Mario or Zelda, they wouldn't have shown so many at once.

 

There are enough games, but my instinct is that people want a game to really get excited about and look forward to. Arguably, Nintendo has not yet fully laid the foundations for this console. Going by quantity and apparent simplicity of the games, this conference felt like it was much later in the Wii's lifespan than it should be.

 

No one can seriously want a new Mario, but where is Zelda? OK, I'm beginning to accept that Twilight Princess might be all we get on Wii, but it isn't truly Zelda Wii. Personally, the very best thing about any new Nintendo console is seeing Mario and Zelda updated.

 

Also, there were none of the games people really want like (as well as Zelda) Kid Icarus, Star Fox etc.

 

I'm not trying to say the conference was in any way disappointing, but nor are fans insatiable. When they know the important games are all on their way and have not been forgotten, they will literally be satisfied. After all, I don't remember this kind of attitude from the fans during the GameCube era. There was always something really good to look forward to, that was the difference.

[Helmsly]

Why do Nintendo keep saying that everyone's asking for a new Zelda and Mario? I've never seen anyone demanding new Mario or Zelda titles in the past six months, as we realise they take time to make. I want a new F-Zero, or a Starfox, or a Pikmin, but apart from the latter, Nintendo seems to want us forget they exist.

 

Yeah I was going to post just this. I don't remember anyone asking where is the new Mario or Zelda, it was the titles you mentioned that people where expecting, or somthing new.

 

But overall, I'm not complaing about what they done for the past year, its just that at the end of this year...I'm really not sure there's anything I'll be buying for the Wii by Nintendo.

[Jonnas]

yeah Fire Emblem rocks. Too bad no shops near me stocked it and they just reused the GC engine. Hmm FE actually has loads of untapped potential imo, spice it up a bit and it could be awesomely epic yet keep the same old formula.

 

Does anyone know how it sold? I mean, I know it's not that popular and it's for a niche crowd but i was just wondering how it did..?

 

That's what they've been doing with each iteration of the series:

 

-FE1 introduced the mechanics;

-FE2 changed a lot of things, and made it more similar to an RPG;

-FE4 introduced skills and had a lot of stuff that aren't in most recent FEs;

-FE6 introduced support conversations;

-FE8 mixed a few ideas from previous iterations;

-FE11 introduces online

 

And the games keep feeling different to each other.

Also, FE10 is huge, isn't it?

 

As for the sales, I have no idea.

 

But on the Wii there aren't enough shooters or epic games. You will never see a game such as Metal Gear or Fallout on the Wii because A) it physically isn't possible and B) nobody thinks it's worth making. Sure the first party games are great, but there must be more than that, and some of these 'core' games you are talking about really aren't deserved of the title. Yes, Boom blox may require some skill but it isn't a core game.

 

See, I hate shooters. And I'm sure I would love Boom Blox. I also dislike Fallout. Does that make me a "casual"?

 

That's why people can't be labeled as easily as you might think.

[Tellyn]

Well I think efforts like Metroid are great wii core games because they've not been dumbed down for the Wii's new audience.

 

My defintion is a game that is challenging and requires skill to do. Nothing that as Goron said, has been dumbed down to make it appeal more to the casual gamer.

 

I'm still not seeing how Mario Kart and Smash were seen as dumbed down to be honest.

 

But on the Wii there aren't enough shooters or epic games. You will never see a game such as Metal Gear or Fallout on the Wii because A) it physically isn't possible and B) nobody thinks it's worth making. Sure the first party games are great, but there must be more than that, and some of these 'core' games you are talking about really aren't deserved of the title. Yes, Boom blox may require some skill but it isn't a core game.

 

So? Why does a console need "shooters and epic games" to be great? I don't even know where you're going with this to be honest, I don't see why people can't appreciate the console for what it is without wanting the world. I also don't see why you're dubbing games as hardcore and casual, it doesn't matter.

 

Yeah I was going to post just this. I don't remember anyone asking where is the new Mario or Zelda, it was the titles you mentioned that people where expecting, or somthing new.

 

But overall, I'm not complaing about what they done for the past year, its just that at the end of this year...I'm really not sure there's anything I'll be buying for the Wii by Nintendo.

 

If I recall, the only reason this came about was because of Geoff Keighley questioning Reggie after E3. "HAIZ WARE WUZ ZELDA N MARIO"

[mcj metroid]

He's right though. "Core gamers" are never content with the present, they are always anticipating the next big thing.

 

his is true but they made a very large mistake at e3.. and gamers had every right to complain... Im not sure what they were trying to do.. in the last week they have proved they do have games for us as some of us suspected but why didnt they show them at e3 like they ALWAYS do .

 

people had doubts and were excpecting something big to make up for everything..

 

i do however hate people who were expecting a new mario or zelda... i mean sigh

[Shino]

But on the Wii there aren't enough shooters or epic games. You will never see a game such as Metal Gear or Fallout on the Wii because A) it physically isn't possible and B) nobody thinks it's worth making. Sure the first party games are great, but there must be more than that, and some of these 'core' games you are talking about really aren't deserved of the title. Yes, Boom blox may require some skill but it isn't a core game.

 

You know what PS3/360 are missing? Mario, Zelda, Metroid and Smash. You'll never see a game such as these on those console because A) they ain't Nintendo B) it is legally impossible. Sure they have many great games such as LBP, MGS4 and Fallout, but there must be more than that, otherwise how can I enjoy a console for what it is.

[Hellfire]

his is true but they made a very large mistake at e3.. and gamers had every right to complain... Im not sure what they were trying to do.. in the last week they have proved they do have games for us as some of us suspected but why didnt they show them at e3 like they ALWAYS do .

 

people had doubts and were excpecting something big to make up for everything..

 

i do however hate people who were expecting a new mario or zelda... i mean sigh

First of all, yeah, people have a right to complain, but they also need to stop overreacting and understand what a certain company sells and does instead of wanting it to do what others do.

Second, they don't always do that E3, Nintendo has always, ALWAYS been very very secretive and showing things when least expected. not showing certain things at E3 was not weird and not surprising, which is why lots of people predicted it would happen. They could have chosen to reveal motion+ at the conference and people would go HOLEE SHIT MEGATON, but they didn't. Why? Because it doesn't matter what a bunch of geeks and otakus (lol) post on forums or think of some conferences and speeches, what matters is that games come out and sell.

 

You know what I read at neogaf earlier and it's so simple, yet so right: a real hardcore gamer should like to try out a bit of everything. That's the opposite of what most hardcores out there are doing.

[steggy]

I think the problem lies with the changes in definitions of "core" and "casual" games.

 

With the exception of Zelda and Metriod, Nintendo's franchises have always been a little casual. If you really think about it, can you tell me any other Nintendo created games for the N64 & GC that you would consider "Epic." I'm thinking hard here and I'm coming up empty.

 

Yes there's been a gap of Nintendo high budget games, probably due to rushing to get all the big hitters we've had during the last couple of years out the door. But I'm seeing a quite a few 3rd party games I'm interested in, and a few lower budget Nintendo games.

 

If this latest conference is anything to go by we just have to be patient, yes E3 was lame for people like us. But E3 is the only time Nintendo have the ear of all of the casual press.

 

But please don't sit around waiting for Nintendo to create these "Epic" games you so want, they're not Nintendo's forte and never really have been. I know the reason I got a Wii was for the pick up and play games that nintendo has been known for, for the last 20 years (plus some 3rd party goodness too, I'm looking at you de Blob).

[Choze]

In a way Reggie is very right. Though I disagree with Nintendo's overall efforts personally, they have to do what they have to do.

 

Quite frankly Nintendo do not need us(we would make them less successful) and we have to accept that gaming is becoming more diverse. I own a PS3 for most of my gaming for example. Wii is lovely though for what it is. But its certainly not going to make up for games like GT5 or LBP. I want more cutting edge stuff interms of game design and PS3 gets me that sort of stuff. LBP for example is what we will see more of in the future. I do not think it will be huge now but its a great big step.

[Mike]

With the exception of Zelda and Metriod, Nintendo's franchises have always been a little casual. If you really think about it, can you tell me any other Nintendo created games for the N64 & GC that you would consider "Epic." I'm thinking hard here and I'm coming up empty.

 

F-Zero GX was certainly not 'casual'; neither was Pikmin 2 in my opinion.

[Ganepark32]

I don't understand why people are moaning about there not being a new F Zero game. F Zero GX is THE definitive futuristic racing game. The track design is brilliant, the music is great, it's got good controls and presents a healthy challenge. I think that adding online to it would ruin it. You'd either be playing online with 4 others or waiting for ages to get a full 30 grid. And the lag would be huge, worse than Smash Bros.

[steggy]

F-Zero GX was certainly not 'casual'; neither was Pikmin 2 in my opinion.

 

I don't think F-Zero GX was developed by Nintendo, it was Sega wasn't it? But yes F-Zero is probably one of there least casual franchises, but when Wipeout was released it did make futuristic racers fit into the "main stream" slot.

 

Pikmin 2 yes I myself would consider that a "core" game, but can you see how that type of game would be thought of as "casual" by some of the people that call themselves "hard core" gamers.

[Patch]

You can please some of the people all of the time.

You can please all of the people some of the time.

You can please a Nintendo fan once in a blue moon.

 

Just kidding, of course. I'm surprised Reggie felt the need to defend Nintendo after the conference. I thought the reaction was mostly positive.

 

I don't understand why people are moaning about there not being a new F Zero game. F Zero GX is THE definitive futuristic racing game. The track design is brilliant, the music is great, it's got good controls and presents a healthy challenge. I think that adding online to it would ruin it. You'd either be playing online with 4 others or waiting for ages to get a full 30 grid. And the lag would be huge, worse than Smash Bros.

 

I agree. It is one of my favourite games of all time - close to perfect. But surely you're not suggesting they need never make another one because of that? Should they stop making Mario games after Super Mario Galaxy?

[Ganepark32]

I'm not saying they shouldn't make another one but really F Zero GX is as close to perfect as they'll get. I'm sure it'll be one of the games re-released on the Wii and it'd be cool for some new tracks and stuff but I pretty happy with GX. I don't really care if they don't make another one for years because GX is just so good.

 

And Super Mario Galaxy is far from perfect but that's a different story and argument not for here. It is still a very good game though so don't start getting all pissy and angry at what I said.

[Patch]

I'm not saying they shouldn't make another one but really F Zero GX is as close to perfect as they'll get. I'm sure it'll be one of the games re-released on the Wii and it'd be cool for some new tracks and stuff but I pretty happy with GX. I don't really care if they don't make another one for years because GX is just so good.

 

Fair enough, good argument.

 

I honestly wouldn't mind if they released a new F-Zero game with exactly the same physics and gameplay of F-Zero GX but with new courses/vehicles/missions. I agree the gameplay is nearly perfect as it is. It's hard to imagine it being as good with motion controls built in.

 

[super Mario Galaxy] is still a very good game though so don't start getting all pissy and angry at what I said.

 

?? Why would I do that?

[Dazkarieh]

I completely agree with Reggie. The only reason I don't like Wii's upcoming titles because I can't buy all I want

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

I've got mixed feelings about this. First of all, the conference was pretty good and I didn't realise there had been a negative reaction to it. There was Sin & Punishment 2 (a series which only enthusiasts would know about), as well as a faithful looking continuation of Punch Out and also the much desired "new IP" like Dynamic Slash.

 

However, if Nintendo really thought any one of those games was as exciting as a Mario or Zelda, they wouldn't have shown so many at once.

 

There are enough games, but my instinct is that people want a game to really get excited about and look forward to. Arguably, Nintendo has not yet fully laid the foundations for this console. Going by quantity and apparent simplicity of the games, this conference felt like it was much later in the Wii's lifespan than it should be.

 

No one can seriously want a new Mario, but where is Zelda? OK, I'm beginning to accept that Twilight Princess might be all we get on Wii, but it isn't truly Zelda Wii. Personally, the very best thing about any new Nintendo console is seeing Mario and Zelda updated.

 

Also, there were none of the games people really want like (as well as Zelda) Kid Icarus, Star Fox etc.

 

I'm not trying to say the conference was in any way disappointing, but nor are fans insatiable. When they know the important games are all on their way and have not been forgotten, they will literally be satisfied. After all, I don't remember this kind of attitude from the fans during the GameCube era. There was always something really good to look forward to, that was the difference.

 

Yes, I agree with this.

 

If Reggie and co truly can't see why some faithful Wii fans may be disappointed, then I believe this is proof of Nintendo losing foresight. In fact, his attitude damn right pisses me off. The fact that he feels he can openly criticize Nintendo's OWN core fanbase just goes to show how much they really don't give a rat's ass about what they - the core - want.

 

I mean, who does that? Insult their own loyal following? XD

 

Nintendo are just obviously out of touch. What makes them think i am going to buy a slew of relatively unknown/risque/probably mediocre games over one game whos quality is true and tested? I wasn't really excited about that show reel of games because it featured games which IMO do not have a great enough foundation which warrants me to go ape-mad in excitement. I hate to compare, but none of those games are up there with the likes of; Resident Evil 5, Street Fighter 4, Final Fantasy 13 - not even Grand Theft Auto 4, Soul calibur 4, MGS4 or a downloadable game like Wipeout HD. Of course this is subjective, but none of those games showed are on par with the games that other consoles will be getting and I base that on what they have given in the past. All they had to do for me (and most others) was show Pikmin 3 and I would have been thumbs up.

 

This new Nintendo arrogance is just annoying me. Maybe I'm taking this the wrong way but this is just incredible. ROFL. I'm losing faith in these guys.

[Patch]

I mean, who does that? Insult their own loyal following?

 

Perhaps, while standing knee-deep in mud, they thought they'd sling some back?

[Jonnas]

F-Zero GX doesn't need a sequel, definately.

My only complaint about the game is that we can't have a multiplayer race with 2 Humans and 28 CPUs. And that's something they can add in a Wiimake. No need to make a sequel.

 

If Reggie and co truly can't see why some faithful Wii fans may be disappointed, then I believe this is proof of Nintendo losing foresight. In fact, his attitude damn right pisses me off. The fact that he feels he can openly criticize Nintendo's OWN core fanbase just goes to show how much they really don't give a rat's ass about what they - the core - want.

 

I mean, who does that? Insult their own loyal following? XD

 

I prefer the term "criticism".

And they have the right to do it, considering the "loyal" following keeps badmouthing them a lot more, no matter what they do.

 

Nintendo are just obviously out of touch. What makes them think i am going to buy a slew of relatively unknown/risque/probably mediocre games over one game whos quality is true and tested? I wasn't really excited about that show reel of games because it featured games which IMO do not have a great enough foundation which warrants me to go ape-mad in excitement. I hate to compare, but none of those games are up there with the likes of; Resident Evil 5, Street Fighter 4, Final Fantasy 13 - not even Grand Theft Auto 4, Soul calibur 4, MGS4 or a downloadable game like Wipeout HD. Of course this is subjective, but none of those games showed are on par with the games that other consoles will be getting and I base that on what they have given in the past.

 

This new Nintendo arrogance is just annoying me. Maybe I'm taking this the wrong way but this is just incredible. ROFL. I'm losing faith in these guys.

 

I know you have a negative attitude by nature, but this is a bunch of bollocks.

 

Those games you listed? 3rd party efforts. There are also some on the Wii. And some of them may eventually come to the Wii, knowing Capcom .

 

If you only care about known franchises with lots of hype, instead of the lesser known gems with more substance, then I don't know what more I can say, honestly.

 

All they had to do for me (and most others) was show Pikmin 3 and I would have been thumbs up.

 

Apparently, it's the only thing they could've shown to make you happy.

 

My point is, Nintendo isn't neglecting or insulting anyone. The gaming options are there.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

F-Zero GX doesn't need a sequel, definately.

My only complaint about the game is that we can't have a multiplayer race with 2 Humans and 28 CPUs. And that's something they can add in a Wiimake. No need to make a sequel.

 

 

 

I prefer the term "criticism".

And they have the right to do it, considering the "loyal" following keeps badmouthing them a lot more, no matter what they do.

 

 

 

I know you have a negative attitude by nature, but this is a bunch of bollocks.

 

Those games you listed? 3rd party efforts. There are also some on the Wii. And some of them may eventually come to the Wii, knowing Capcom .

 

If you only care about known franchises with lots of hype, instead of the lesser known gems with more substance, then I don't know what more I can say, honestly.

 

 

 

Apparently, it's the only thing they could've shown to make you happy.

 

My point is, Nintendo isn't neglecting or insulting anyone. The gaming options are there.

 

We can only hope and pray (as usual). But its clearly obvious Wii owners do not get 3rd party games with neither the depth OR substance as their counterparts. I'm not particularly happy with RE4 REMAKE, Okami REMAKE, RE0 REMAKE, RE1 REMAKE. How can I be as a Nintendo fan when other consoles are getting 100% original content? Even in the GC era, Capcom did better and even their most low rated game (product Number 03), I was able to see its inner beauty and love.

 

No, I never said I didn't care about the lesser known games, did I? What i did say is you can't just pile a bunch of relatively unknown games into a 2 minute video and expect gamers to be over the moon. If they did that with the franchises that has PROVEN themselves as great, THEN yes, I will be in a goo of moisture. The fact that I love PN03 shows that i am open to perculiar titles, but if I don't know what they are, I can't really calculate a degree of hype towards them because their not really on the "radar"... Which isn't a bad thing but Mr Reggie here can't surely expect Nintendo fans to be doing a jig of joy just of the mere fact that there are games hitting the console. THATS WHAT YOU'RE MEANT TO DO; MAKE GAMES!

[ShadowV7]

We can only hope and pray (as usual). But its clearly obvious Wii owners do not get 3rd party games with neither the depth OR substance as their counterparts. I'm not particularly happy with RE4 REMAKE, Okami REMAKE, RE0 REMAKE, RE1 REMAKE. How can I be as a Nintendo fan when other consoles are getting 100% original content? Even in the GC era, Capcom did better and even their most low rated game (product Number 03), I was able to see its inner beauty and love.

 

No, I never said I didn't care about the lesser known games, did I? What i did say is you can't just pile a bunch of relatively unknown games into a 2 minute video and expect gamers to be over the moon. If they did that with the franchises that has PROVEN themselves as great, THEN yes, I will be in a goo of moisture. The fact that I love PN03 shows that i am open to perculiar titles, but if I don't know what they are, I can't really calculate a degree of hype towards them because their not really on the "radar"... Which isn't a bad thing but Mr Reggie here can't surely expect Nintendo fans to be doing a jig of joy just of the mere fact that there are games hitting the console. THATS WHAT YOU'RE MEANT TO DO; MAKE GAMES!

 

Actually I beg to differ about the 3rd parties. There's a crap load of 3rd party games I want from now till next year, majority being Wii exclusive and not a remake. I can think of many folk who can agree with me here.

 

Also about the lesser known games, there's a bunch of games that aren't big or the name is known to folk, but is shaping up to be a great game by various screenshots and news every so often, which is what pretty much all devs do and not make a '2 min' video of there game and hope for the best. No-one can expect that to happen ever. There's plenty of 3rd and 1st party games that i'm personally wanting. So much that I don't even want to make a list since it'll show me roughly how much i'll need to spend.

 

Also for the lesser known games, it's important to keep an eye on them for updates to build up hype instead of boycotting threads which some folk seem to do.

[Hellfire]

Yeah King, they should make games! I mean not only have they delivered games at a slower rate than before, published at a slower rate than before, they were usually very very fast at making games! Oh wait...

 

And although I dislike Capcom's port attitude, Z&W is marvelous, Okami Wii was more than deserved, RE4 is awesome, Dead Rising is basically a new game and SPyborgs is made by a very talented team. The problem is your definition of depth and substance, just face it, the kind of games you define as having depth and substance are not the kind of games prone to come on Wii, since Wii is in various aspects, experimental, while the others are the same as before, so you get PC games and pretty graphics basically. Which is OK, obviously. Just like I don't expect games with Nintendo-like polish for example coming to 360, but I know what I bought it for

 

And 3rd party is in some ways than before, there are some exceptions, no doubt, but even the great 3rd party games like SCII that came for the GC (which were few and far between) were more of the same or multiplatform titles, which no one could expect Wii to get and even if it does, what now seems like the cool hardcore crowd would get it on another console. On Wii we had Zack & Wiki, De Blob and Boom Blox, marvelous and original games, Scarface and mainly Godfather, PS2 ports yes, but a good showing of what Wii controls can add to "normal" games specially so soon after the launch, Kororinpa and Mercury Meltdown (the kind of game lots like to say have no depth and substance, which I disagree completly), EA Sports has been successful with TW, 09 is the best golf game yet, PES is brilliant, 09 seems even better, No More Heroes despite the flaws is a great game, some cool fighters like Naruto, DBZ and Guilty Gear, etc This is not a list wars, I'm tired of those and someone (cough) always comes picking up the lists and going "lol remake, lol casual, lol toned down", I'm just making a point that there are good 3rd party titles already out, more than I posted and many more with more promise coming out.

 

Some people don't like this, they need their shooters or whatever, that's fine, but some people don't even want to give most games a chance, they just want to keep hating and bashing, while getting wet at the mere sight of, and forgive me for repeating myself and being generic, a space marine.

 

http://wiki.joshuajamesslone.name/tiki-index.php?page=Nintendo+needs+to+make+real+games+on+Wii.&highlight=NBA%20Courtside Damn some people have lots of time on their hands lol

[Jonnas]

We can only hope and pray (as usual). But its clearly obvious Wii owners do not get 3rd party games with neither the depth OR substance as their counterparts. I'm not particularly happy with RE4 REMAKE, Okami REMAKE, RE0 REMAKE, RE1 REMAKE. How can I be as a Nintendo fan when other consoles are getting 100% original content? Even in the GC era, Capcom did better and even their most low rated game (product Number 03), I was able to see its inner beauty and love.

 

I noticed in that Street Fighter IV thread that you kept complaining about SFIV's graphics,

Tatsunoko vs. Capcom is a 100% original game, has graphics more similar to SFIII, and is a Wii exclusive (for now, anyway).

 

Capcom has also released Zack & Wiki, No More Heroes and has announced No More Heroes 2. Many people can see the inner beauty inside those games as well, you know.

 

Honestly, Capcom is treating the Wii better than they treated the Gamecube. Wasn't Capcom the one to release RE2 and RE3 on the Cube, as ports of their PS1 counterparts?

 

My point is: the Wii is getting more 3rd party support than the Cube or N64 ever had.

 

No, I never said I didn't care about the lesser known games, did I? What i did say is you can't just pile a bunch of relatively unknown games into a 2 minute video and expect gamers to be over the moon. If they did that with the franchises that has PROVEN themselves as great, THEN yes, I will be in a goo of moisture. The fact that I love PN03 shows that i am open to perculiar titles, but if I don't know what they are, I can't really calculate a degree of hype towards them because their not really on the "radar"... Which isn't a bad thing but Mr Reggie here can't surely expect Nintendo fans to be doing a jig of joy just of the mere fact that there are games hitting the console. THATS WHAT YOU'RE MEANT TO DO; MAKE GAMES!

 

They're not on the radar because you don't want them to be.

 

What about Wario Land, Mushroom Men, Klonoa, the recently announced Sin & Punishment 2, Boom Blox, Super Paper Mario, Fire Emblem, among others?

They all got (or are getting) their fair share of info and hype before release. Just not the monumental amount of hype games like SSBB, MP3 and Galaxy had.

And quite frankly, you don't need to be part of an established series to generate interest. I was mega-hyped for Tales of Symphonia after watching a couple of trailers, and I didn't even know it was a series. And I'm looking very forward to Mushroom Men as well.

[dwarf]

You know what PS3/360 are missing? Mario, Zelda, Metroid and Smash. You'll never see a game such as these on those console because A) they ain't Nintendo B) it is legally impossible. Sure they have many great games such as LBP, MGS4 and Fallout, but there must be more than that, otherwise how can I enjoy a console for what it is.

Well I'm not missing it because Ive played all of those and I'm not really missing them, other than maybe Smash.

 

I wanted an Xbox 360/PS3 way more over Wii because the Wii can't hold your attention for long enough and there never seemed to be a big game out for it. With these consoles I am always spoilt for choice.

Im just saying, for traditional gamers I think you need something other than the Wii because other than the social games and the occasional first party title there isn't enough.

[Shino]

And why do you assume we're not traditional games? I can understand that you don't like as many games on Wii as you do on PS3, but that's your choice and taste.

 

PS. My other post was sarcastic.