Chris the great Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 i gotta start playing again, ive just been hammering resi 5 and lBp latly though. maybe have a blast tommorow.
Choze Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) Yeah sorry i missed today was abit occupied. Testing motion resolution with RR7. edit: argue about the cover system here. Edited May 13, 2009 by Choze
dwarf Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 (edited) Dwarf confirmed he is using an odd control scheme that does not work well with any KZ2 specific actions not just cover. Daft is using the same as well. Which invalidates many of their points because most people stick to the standard choices which work very well. The alternate controls are essentially pulled from other games. They were universally discouraged. How can you play in a control scheme that also makes crouching and melee usage poor. Yeah its similar to any other game where you use cover. Moving up if for poking up and out though. Left and right moves you along till the edge where you will poke out. Hardly cumbersome. The same as Gears or Uncharted. Even if you dont like it(subjective). Its new, its different from other fps. One problem with a Nintendo forum is how many gamers here are not familiar with fps much at all aside from afew games. I've gamed on fps since Wolfenstein on all sorts of systems especially pc. Its amusing hearing some of the comments here. Especially about whats new. As i have said carry on in the other thread but since people are carrying on here lets carry on... Well why did they include those options in the game then? Clearly me and Daft used the different set, as did someone else on the forum. Alt 2 was generally seen as the best option here. But they've based the controls around the rubbish method which is ridiculous. No-one has complained about controls in other games either because they make a good choice or because it lets you customize it yourself. I bet you don't use the same control set for online play. Bullshit again. Alt 2 is pretty much the standard but for this game they made it so it didn't work because of the cover system which should have just been one tap of the button. That's what every other game does and it works, but this you have to hold L2 down and use the left analogue simultaneously, which ruins alt 2... And how does it make melee or crouching poor? You only crouch every so often. You turned Deathjamms post there into it sounding like he thought the cover system was the same as the other games. It clearly isn't, even if you swap to the main controls you have to think about what you are doing all the time, again because of the L2 holding. They included the tap/hold aim function so why not the cover? Well as someone pointed out Rainbow Six had this option, and to be honest I wouldn't have given a damn if it wasn't included. It slowed the game down and made it difficult to take down enemies because of it combining badly with accelerated aiming. Oh and can I point out it is annoying you when you use smilies when people are arguing with you. It makes you seem flustered. Edited May 13, 2009 by dwarf
MATtheHAT Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 Nice use of colour there, 10/10 for effort. Just to try and make this post less spam-like, I.....um.....don't think cover systems work in an FPS, Quantum of Solace is probably the closest an FPS has come to a good cover system. Gears of War.......now thats how to do a cover system. Buts its 3rd person.
dwarf Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 I haven't re-read it but maybe I subconsciously wanted to drill it into Chozes inpenetrably stubborn head.
Choze Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 Well why did they include those options in the game then? Clearly me and Daft used the different set, as did someone else on the forum. Alt 2 was generally seen as the best option here. But they've based the controls around the rubbish method which is ridiculous. No-one has complained about controls in other games either because they make a good choice or because it lets you customize it yourself. I bet you don't use the same control set for online play. Bullshit again. Alt 2 is pretty much the standard but for this game they made it so it didn't work because of the cover system which should have just been one tap of the button. That's what every other game does and it works, but this you have to hold L2 down and use the left analogue simultaneously, which ruins alt 2... You turned Deathjamms post there into it sounding like he thought the cover system was the same as the other games. It clearly isn't, even if you swap to the main controls you have to think about what you are doing all the time, again because of the L2 holding. They included the tap/hold aim function so why not the cover? Well as someone pointed out Rainbow Six had this option, and to be honest I wouldn't have given a damn if it wasn't included. It slowed the game down and made it difficult to take down enemies because of it combining accelerated aiming. Oh and can I point out it is annoying you when you use smilies when people are arguing with you. It makes you seem flustered. lol. I'll reply to it later. But you might want to fact check abit
dwarf Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 Why don't you bumlick Ridge Racer for a bit seeing as it's an exclusive? Christ I didn't realise you could be so annoying. And that wink had better been a joke. I'm certainly not winking and you're shitting yourself because you have to think about a way to get out of this argument, which is why you're answering later. hope he takes last bit seriously
Choze Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 Why don't you bumlick Ridge Racer for a bit seeing as it's an exclusive? Christ I didn't realise you could be so annoying.And that wink had better been a joke. I'm certainly not winking and you're shitting yourself because you have to think about a way to get out of this argument, which is why you're answering later. hope he takes last bit seriously lol take it easy. Well as someone pointed out Rainbow Six had this option, and to be honest I wouldn't have given a damn if it wasn't included. It slowed the game down and made it difficult to take down enemies because of it combining accelerated aiming. and that person was confused as R6 used a 3rd person cover system. As far as i am aware KZ2 is the first to be seamless 1st person. But people seem to have serious issues accepting that little fact. Why all trhis fuss. even if you swap to the main controls you have to think about what you are doing all the time, again because of the L2 holding. They included the tap/hold aim function so why not the cover? L2 holding is easy, its doing anything else with the button held in your scheme. In your scheme you have L1 for aim though... that alone is odd to use at the same time. In cover its impossible. Melee click to r3 stick for the same as looking is really hard as there is no auto aim in this game for that. Plus you need two hits at least most of the time. Its making things more difficult than they should be. Your scheme i guess works fine enough online minus alot of melee and crouching. But for story the cover button ruins it. My scheme is r3 click for zoomed aiming. toggle. So obviously cake for me when i use cover. I can melee with L2. Hence i can manage many melee kills a match. I can crouch and zoom in no problem. My scheme kills yours.
dwarf Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 I see what you're saying about the melee thing now, as in you can't turn that easily whilst pressing R3. Okay fair enough. As for the moment of discomfort holding L2 to crouch, it doesn't actually affect me playing like this, it's just a trade off for more comfortable controls elsewhere, like when standing normally it is so much better holding L1 to aim. If you look at our sigs our K : D is hardly different anyway. *Just realised that it is. Not intending to be smug*
Choze Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 I see what you're saying about the melee thing now, as in you can't turn that easily whilst pressing R3. Okay fair enough. As for the moment of discomfort holding L2 to crouch, it doesn't actually affect me playing like this, it's just a trade off for more comfortable controls elsewhere, like when standing normally it is so much better holding L1 to aim. If you look at our sigs our K : D is hardly different anyway. *Just realised that it is. Not intending to be smug* hehe. I wouldnt place too much weight on just K/D, depends on your playstyle. Scout players have insane K/D for example. Your melee stats are probably lacking compared to mine though. The fact you killed me afew times that way is wrong... Now i know to have full energy and run into you. Killzone 2 is shit. *Waits for Choze to implode* Luckily for me all i have to do is just type 'killzone 2'. and you will explode.
dwarf Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 Oh wait you've pulled it out of the hat and made a decent comment, thank God. I will make you admit you are wrong one day though. And I rarely see the point of meleeing. Not because of the controls but because of the fact it is so easy to kill people quicker from intensely close range, like popping around a corner and somehow ending up getting a headshot after being inside someone's body whilst firing. It's a big part of Resistance, great for finishing someone off after leading them up. I'll teach you in R3 Choze.
Nolan Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 Wait wait wait, people don't use the defualt controls? Now I just feel weird. The only change I made was Aim Toggle On. Holding down L2 and then trying to do anything else is ungodly hard for me to do on the Dualshock. Since the inception of the DS, I have never been comfortable while using any combination of shoulder buttons.
dwarf Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 Yeah, which is why it should be like 3rd person where you can toggle it.
Deathjam Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 Yeah its similar to any other game where you use cover. Moving up if for poking up and out though. Left and right moves you along till the edge where you will poke out. Hardly cumbersome. The same as Gears or Uncharted. Even if you dont like it(subjective). Its new, its different from other fps. One problem with a Nintendo forum is how many gamers here are not familiar with fps much at all aside from afew games. I've gamed on fps since Wolfenstein on all sorts of systems especially pc. Its amusing hearing some of the comments here. Especially about whats new. As i have said carry on in the other thread but since people are carrying on here lets carry on.. I really can't tell if you have included me in the bold text but to give light to my credentials in my FPS opinions: I have played some sort of FPS on most platforms, ranging from one of 3d realms early shooters (actually they produced/published it) Blake Stone (wolfenstein 3d clone) to stuff like Killzone today. Played well known FPS such as Soldier of Fortune and faily unknown ones like SiN (came out same time as Half Life) and Shogo (same problem). The cover system existed in games such as Soldier of Fortune, but in a less 'hand-holding' way, in that there were buttons that allowed you to lean around the wall to shoot your foes, but you were not stuck to the wall, and the wrong button press, and you were out in the open. Just required a bit of skill to use, but really, it wasn't neccessary. Games like Gears are built around the it in that stray from that cover and you are dead. Killzone, well I wasn't using it really and was still able to game without it. Remember, I played it on hard, not easy. In Gears, i must admit, it felt more natural and fluid. Killzone just felt unnecessarily difficult to use as when I would poke my head out, my foe would have obviously moved, and take much less time to get a bead on my head. Actually, I have been killed when i was in cover. More than a bit annoying. So when people say cover systems are revolutionary blah blah, I just scoff because really, FPS have not changed that much over all these years. Certain things are just dressed up in fancy new clothing and paraded to a new bunch of gamers without the permanently jaded perceptions of this genre. Ah, maybe that's why I play so few shooters these days. Stuff like Rainbow six and Ghost recon bores the hell out of me. In their original guise (where you had to tactically plan your manuevres) I was tempted to play but it looked too complex. Now I wish they would add these complexities to shooters of today.
dwarf Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 My first shooter experience was my Dad playing the original doom (I think, some game where dog meat was health) and my first real experience was Quake III, which wasn't a bad game. That was when FPS was set on the idealogy that power ups and weapon collecting was the only option. For me classes was a major step, but both styles, arcadey and life-like are still good. Timesplitters wouldn't quite be the same. I've played more than enough to judge them though.
Choze Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 I really can't tell if you have included me in the bold text but to give light to my credentials in my FPS opinions: I have played some sort of FPS on most platforms, ranging from one of 3d realms early shooters (actually they produced/published it) Blake Stone (wolfenstein 3d clone) to stuff like Killzone today. Played well known FPS such as Soldier of Fortune and faily unknown ones like SiN (came out same time as Half Life) and Shogo (same problem). I did not imply all There are afew pc gamers here. Someone should post that Stalker 2 will be made on the Cry Engine 3. The cover system existed in games such as Soldier of Fortune, but in a less 'hand-holding' way, in that there were buttons that allowed you to lean around the wall to shoot your foes, but you were not stuck to the wall, and the wrong button press, and you were out in the open. Just required a bit of skill to use, but really, it wasn't neccessary. There were lean buttons in SOF. Yes i have completed the original Soldier of Fortune. Had good gun play and volence back then. Loved using the flash nades. The first proper train level as well. Even Goldeneye had a peak out function that required you to hold R and C left or right to peek out. Hardly anyone used those though. Niether of them are actual cover like Gears today or games before even. I dont think the1st person lean function ever worked out mainly because of extra buttons for left or right lean. Games like Gears are built around the it in that stray from that cover and you are dead. Killzone, well I wasn't using it really and was still able to game without it. Remember, I played it on hard, not easy. In Gears, i must admit, it felt more natural and fluid. Killzone just felt unnecessarily difficult to use as when I would poke my head out, my foe would have obviously moved, and take much less time to get a bead on my head. Actually, I have been killed when i was in cover. More than a bit annoying. Its clearly a bigger part of the game in Gears, infact its what makes it Gears. in KZ2 its not designed as a necessity aside from perhaps 100% completion(elite). I dont think elite would have been possible without cover unless you are masochist! Easy mode i didnt enjoy as much because it wasnt that fresh without cover but in elite you are forced to use it. Made the AI and gameplay more unique. A fresh and more experience for me. Certainly for the sequel they should try to integrate it better all round. So when people say cover systems are revolutionary blah blah, I just scoff because really, FPS have not changed that much over all these years. Certain things are just dressed up in fancy new clothing and paraded to a new bunch of gamers without the permanently jaded perceptions of this genre. Ah, maybe that's why I play so few shooters these days. Stuff like Rainbow six and Ghost recon bores the hell out of me. In their original guise (where you had to tactically plan your manuevres) I was tempted to play but it looked too complex. Now I wish they would add these complexities to shooters of today. I dont think its revolutionary at all(too strong a word) but its certainly a clever idea and mixes up the pacing. Its something 3rd person shooters do well. So why not bring it in this game and make it fully first person. Even QOS uses a 3rd person cover system. This is what games do. They make little steps. Big steps are rare and require an all round effort that likely would include tech and software. Even then games dont recognised till years later for adding ideas(after copying). The original Rainbow six were really good, very niche. You spent ages planning and missions would last like 15 seconds lol. That was insanely cool. People didnt buy those games though. Also piracy didnt help i presume. So certainly i notice different aspects. I do get frustrated when i see games going backwards (battlefield). So any new ideas are welcome. Mirror's Edge for example tried some new things but wasnt quite perfect.
Nolan Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 (edited) My shooter experiences...well when I was real young I started with Wolfenstein 3D, and progressed to Doom (on the SNES, ahem a nintendo system :p) At some point there was also all the Duke Nukem 3D games on PC, never really got much of a chance for the consoles ones on N64/PS1. Goldeneye, Quake,and the Turok series. Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Halo's, Metroid Prime, Firewarrior, Chaser, Red Faction, HL series, Killzone, TFC TF2, L4D, Timesplitters, The Darkness, Ghost Recon/GRAW series, R6V, Bioshock, System Shock 2, Fallout 3, Killzone 2. I think despite being on a Nintendo forum I have adequate enough experience to judge the game. I'm probably missing games(like CoD), and imo TPS, should count since they're essentially a FPS. It's not really that good of a shooter. A shooter needs to have good shooting mechanics Killzone 2 doesn't. Oddly though, despite that it is fun to play. Also, the graphics...they do need work. Mostly they are good, but some parts just....bleh. A few textures, the heal gun using a paper sprite.....Choze, this is not an invitation to post a crap load of screenshots like you do anytime any ever mentions some about KZ2 graphics. The MP is fun, but I still prefer me some good ole TF2. STALKER 2 is on CE3 and has been announced? I don't believe it. They only just announced Call of Pripyat a sequel to SoC. Plus I think they like having the Deferred Rendering that their X-Ray engine provides allowing for what I think is the best lighting in a game period. Crysis may look the best, but I think Stalker has the best lighting. Edited May 13, 2009 by Nolan
dwarf Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 You do change your story here and there Choze. The idea isn't really that good, it is literally just a different camera - seeing as other FPS games have used it in some form it is barely an idea, they just decided to implement it differently. The double jump introduction was a bigger leap (geddit). Oh and Choze I thought about what I said earlier, specifically the part where I mentioned more customizable control layouts - because my overall preference alt 2 which they offered wasn't good in single player - well if they let you change R2 to melee and tap L2 for cover then it would have been OK.
Choze Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 The idea isn't really that good, it is literally just a different camera Well its now first person. Might be crap to you but its different. Still needs work imo but its already good to me. More control options are always nice for people like us. I think developers worry about more casual users though. But we dont care. Lets see what the new patch brings.
Dyson Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 This thread is almost as funny as the MW2 thread. Almost.
Choze Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 Making of videos up on psn. My tv is delayed so i will have to make do without much games for now. Might do afew tounrey games here and there. Another thread made of win Indeed. This thread is almost as funny as the MW2 thread. Almost. Only more entertaining.
Choze Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 http://www.leadinglightdesign.com/projects_killzone.php Massive amount of artwork from the game. Here are some: Stage Hazzards?
Recommended Posts