Daft Posted January 6, 2010 Posted January 6, 2010 I'm not sure Nintendo have been good at adapting. Being ahead of the curve, yes. Adapting, not so much, I think. I also think the traditional console leap isn't going to happen this time. Neither of the HD consoles are lacking power and are selling steadily and the Wii is selling furiously on a crowd that is unlikely to want to upgrade that much.
dazzybee Posted January 6, 2010 Posted January 6, 2010 If you look at the fact that the PS3 and the 360 offer pretty much the same thing, you'll see that the combined userbase is about 12 million more than that of the Wii. You might think combining the PS3 and 360 is a bit silly but people only really talk about having a Wii60 or a PSWii. You've got a clear segmentation of the console market; the family friendly Wii and the HD entertainment centres of the 360/PS3. (Bar the few exclusives they have exactly the same games and they make up the vast majority of the games for the systems.) The Wii is clearly built on fair weather gamers. The unrelenting sales of games like Wii Fit and Mario Kart, combined with continued under performance of 'core' games, show this. These people are not going to flock to a WiiHD of Wii 2 - no chance. They aren't gamers for the most part and they're having enough fun with the Wii. On top of that, why on Earth would Nintendo want to release a new console so soon?! It's a ludicrous idea. The PS2 hit well over 100 million units sold before the PS3 came out and the Wii is selling faster. Not to mention, Nintendo are making a killing. Yes, third parties aren't, but why does Nintendo care? On top of this, do you think now that Nintendo have exposed this idea of accessibility (I do NOT mean specifically motion controls) that Microsoft and Sony aren't going to, and have been, pouring millions into R&D? The one thing I'm sure Nintendo are praying for is that Microsoft (and I guess Sony, but I doubt it) don't try and match them on price point next generation because both companies are gunning for the Wii crowd and both have shown that the can adapt and improve a lot better than Nintendo. First of, I said it was my opinion. Secondly, I get games on any system if they appeal to me (actually I rent most of the time so it's never like I can't afford it). I haven't bought a Wii game this year because nothing interested me (I have rented a couple), I do plan on getting Red Steel 2 next year, and Zelda and the like. When I talk about Online I'm talking about the whole structure the friend's list, the DLC and most importantly the online ID. I don't see why it's unfair to compare games on one system to another. People do it all the time on the Wii boards in regards to the controls being much better. Games should be reviewed within the expanse of the medium - you pay pretty much the same money. I don't know how to segment post...sorry... (someone tell me) - It'll be MUCH MUCH easier for Nintendo to match Sony and MS then it will be for Sony and MS to match Nintendo. It's not even close. MS simply don't have a chance with natal; Sony have it better but it's going to be too expensive - First Party Games... Nintendo ABSOLUTELY dominate this, it's not even close. Obviously it's a matter of opinion, but the sheer breath, variety and quality of Nintendos games is unbelievable. However innovative LBP is, it's not close to playing like NSMB; MS or Sony don't have anything like Mario Galaxy blah blah blah - Your point about people only going on one HD console I think is completely unfounded. I own them all. Loads of people on here own them all. Loads of my mates own them all. Other than at the very beginning, I've seen no evidence to suggest Wii60 or PSwii; in fact I'd say it's the opposite; people who had 360's and wii's sold their wiis and bought PS3's. - You sort of contradict yourself, but only so slightly. You mention that it won't play out like last generationl but then use last generation of an example of why Nintendo won't release HD (your Sony and PS2 point) - The general public, casual, gamer mums, "fair weather gamers" WILL upgrade... have you seen the DS model? Nintendo should (and probably will) follow it PS I may be wrong, but I really don't think you play many Wii games! Disclaimer: In My Opinion
Fierce_LiNk Posted January 6, 2010 Posted January 6, 2010 I don't know how to segment post...sorry... (someone tell me) It's easy, sucker. All you need to do is put the quote tags around each part you need to segment. For example, I'll take the first three paragraphs of Daft's. If you look at the fact that the PS3 and the 360 offer pretty much the same thing, you'll see that the combined userbase is about 12 million more than that of the Wii. You might think combining the PS3 and 360 is a bit silly but people only really talk about having a Wii60 or a PSWii. You've got a clear segmentation of the console market; the family friendly Wii and the HD entertainment centres of the 360/PS3. (Bar the few exclusives they have exactly the same games and they make up the vast majority of the games for the systems.) The Wii is clearly built on fair weather gamers. The unrelenting sales of games like Wii Fit and Mario Kart, combined with continued under performance of 'core' games, show this. These people are not going to flock to a WiiHD of Wii 2 - no chance. They aren't gamers for the most part and they're having enough fun with the Wii. On top of that, why on Earth would Nintendo want to release a new console so soon?! It's a ludicrous idea. The PS2 hit well over 100 million units sold before the PS3 came out and the Wii is selling faster. Not to mention, Nintendo are making a killing. Yes, third parties aren't, but why does Nintendo care? Now, what you do is put the quote tags around each paragraph. You can do this by just highlighting each paragraph and then clicking that quote button. This one: So, select that first paragraph of Daft's and hit the quote button: If you look at the fact that the PS3 and the 360 offer pretty much the same thing, you'll see that the combined userbase is about 12 million more than that of the Wii. You might think combining the PS3 and 360 is a bit silly but people only really talk about having a Wii60 or a PSWii. You've got a clear segmentation of the console market; the family friendly Wii and the HD entertainment centres of the 360/PS3. (Bar the few exclusives they have exactly the same games and they make up the vast majority of the games for the systems.) The Wii is clearly built on fair weather gamers. The unrelenting sales of games like Wii Fit and Mario Kart, combined with continued under performance of 'core' games, show this. These people are not going to flock to a WiiHD of Wii 2 - no chance. They aren't gamers for the most part and they're having enough fun with the Wii. On top of that, why on Earth would Nintendo want to release a new console so soon?! It's a ludicrous idea. The PS2 hit well over 100 million units sold before the PS3 came out and the Wii is selling faster. Not to mention, Nintendo are making a killing. Yes, third parties aren't, but why does Nintendo care? Ta-daaa. Also, you can just do eet manually. Type in at the start of the bit you want to quote and then [/quote*] at the end, minus the *'s, and there you have eet. So, you can put a around the first paragraph, and then the [/quote*] at the end of the third paragraph, if you want to. Once you've got the quote stuff inserted, then it's simply a case of adding your text inbetween. If you look at the fact that the PS3 and the 360 offer pretty much the same thing, you'll see that the combined userbase is about 12 million more than that of the Wii. You might think combining the PS3 and 360 is a bit silly but people only really talk about having a Wii60 or a PSWii. You've got a clear segmentation of the console market; the family friendly Wii and the HD entertainment centres of the 360/PS3. (Bar the few exclusives they have exactly the same games and they make up the vast majority of the games for the systems.)[/quote*] Then put your reply here. The Wii is clearly built on fair weather gamers. The unrelenting sales of games like Wii Fit and Mario Kart, combined with continued under performance of 'core' games, show this. These people are not going to flock to a WiiHD of Wii 2 - no chance. They aren't gamers for the most part and they're having enough fun with the Wii.[/quote*] Reply here On top of that, why on Earth would Nintendo want to release a new console so soon?! It's a ludicrous idea. The PS2 hit well over 100 million units sold before the PS3 came out and the Wii is selling faster. Not to mention, Nintendo are making a killing. Yes, third parties aren't, but why does Nintendo care?[/quote*] reply here If you do that (sans stars/*'s) then you'll end up with this. If you look at the fact that the PS3 and the 360 offer pretty much the same thing, you'll see that the combined userbase is about 12 million more than that of the Wii. You might think combining the PS3 and 360 is a bit silly but people only really talk about having a Wii60 or a PSWii. You've got a clear segmentation of the console market; the family friendly Wii and the HD entertainment centres of the 360/PS3. (Bar the few exclusives they have exactly the same games and they make up the vast majority of the games for the systems.) Then put your reply here. The Wii is clearly built on fair weather gamers. The unrelenting sales of games like Wii Fit and Mario Kart, combined with continued under performance of 'core' games, show this. These people are not going to flock to a WiiHD of Wii 2 - no chance. They aren't gamers for the most part and they're having enough fun with the Wii. Reply here On top of that, why on Earth would Nintendo want to release a new console so soon?! It's a ludicrous idea. The PS2 hit well over 100 million units sold before the PS3 came out and the Wii is selling faster. Not to mention, Nintendo are making a killing. Yes, third parties aren't, but why does Nintendo care? reply here Ta-daa. So, put the quote tags around the bits you want to segment, then just leave a line or two, and insert your stuffs.
dazzybee Posted January 6, 2010 Posted January 6, 2010 Ah, so you have to reply to the whole post to begin with, and then edit within it? Awesome, cheers Fierce!
Fierce_LiNk Posted January 6, 2010 Posted January 6, 2010 (edited) Ah, so you have to reply to the whole post to begin with, and then edit within it? Awesome, cheers Fierce! That's only if you want to have the "Originally posted by Dazzy/someone" bit at the top of your post. So, if you see somebody's post and think "I want to quote that", then you click that , which then takes you to the posting editing stuff. If you don't want that, you could just select a quote tag first or type in the tags manually. Then, beneath this post where it has all the other stuff posted by other people (the topic review), just copy and paste the stuff you want to quote and insert that into the middle of the tags. So... <insert copied and pasted stuff you want to quote.[*/QUOTE]. For example, I'll nick that first line of your last post and then the first line of my other one: Ah, so you have to reply to the whole post to begin with, and then edit within it? Reply to that It's easy, sucker. All you need to do is put the quote tags around each part you need to segment. Reply to that, too. Edited January 6, 2010 by Fierce_LiNk
Daft Posted January 6, 2010 Posted January 6, 2010 Just to point out, I don't won't to get into some aggressive argument, not that you are being aggressive or will , but I'll give my thoughts. I don't know how to segment post...sorry... (someone tell me) - It'll be MUCH MUCH easier for Nintendo to match Sony and MS then it will be for Sony and MS to match Nintendo. It's not even close. MS simply don't have a chance with natal; Sony have it better but it's going to be too expensive Not really sure how you can justify this when both Microsoft and Sony will have their working answers to buy next year. I'm not talking about adoption rates, we'll have to wait for next generation for them to really have the impact, I'm talking about the fact that both machines will have accessible motion controls this time next year however the Wii will still have significantly less power and weaker infrastructure. - First Party Games... Nintendo ABSOLUTELY dominate this, it's not even close. Obviously it's a matter of opinion, but the sheer breath, variety and quality of Nintendos games is unbelievable. However innovative LBP is, it's not close to playing like NSMB; MS or Sony don't have anything like Mario Galaxy blah blah blah Well here are a few notable games from last year and a few for the coming year. Sony IPs this year; God of War Heavy Rain ModNation Racers Resistance 3 The Last Guardian MAG Gran Turismo 5 (3 New IPs there) Last year; KillZone 2 Uncharted 2 Infamous LittleBigPlanet WipeOut HD Ratchet & Clank (2 New IPs there) And there really are more like Demon's Souls, The Agency and DC Universe Online. The variety, quality and quantity of Sony's games in these couple years has really put everyone else to shame. Not to mention we've known about all the games coming up for at least a year - you can bet others are in the works like the rumoured StarHawk and Twisted Metal. I can't really see how anyone can argue against that. That's one highly enjoyable game every two months. - Your point about people only going on one HD console I think is completely unfounded. I own them all. Loads of people on here own them all. Loads of my mates own them all. Other than at the very beginning, I've seen no evidence to suggest Wii60 or PSwii; in fact I'd say it's the opposite; people who had 360's and wii's sold their wiis and bought PS3's. I think you overestimate the number of 'hardcore' gamers. Of course a lot of people here own them all, this is an internet gaming forum. Either way, say for example 20 million or so 360 owners also had PS3s (Not a chance in Hell it's that high), then you have a combined 40 million or so HD consoles agains the Wii's 50 million or so. I suspect the gap is much much closer. - You sort of contradict yourself, but only so slightly. You mention that it won't play out like last generationl but then use last generation of an example of why Nintendo won't release HD (your Sony and PS2 point) I was using last generation's example of market saturation which, if Nintendo are to believed, should be much higher this generation. More potential customers means there is less need to release a new console. - The general public, casual, gamer mums, "fair weather gamers" WILL upgrade... have you seen the DS model? Nintendo should (and probably will) follow it PS I may be wrong, but I really don't think you play many Wii games! Disclaimer: In My Opinion The DS model? The one where families have multiple units? The one where every iteration of the DS can play games from every other version, bar the online DSi games? I don't think you'll be able to play Wii 2/HD games on the Wii. That's called cannibalising your own market.
david.dakota Posted January 6, 2010 Posted January 6, 2010 Disclaimer: In My Opinion Burn the fucker. He has an opinion, burn him alive I tell you.
The Lillster Posted January 6, 2010 Posted January 6, 2010 Burn the fucker. He has an opinion, burn him alive I tell you. Might as well burn everyone else, as well.
Kav Posted January 7, 2010 Posted January 7, 2010 Don't burn me, I don't have an opinion of my own, I just agree with all of you lot! I find I contradict myself many times in doing so but I don't have an opinion on me doing that either!
Pit-Jr Posted January 7, 2010 Posted January 7, 2010 The variety, quality and quantity of Sony's games in these couple years has really put everyone else to shame. Not to mention we've known about all the games coming up for at least a year - you can bet others are in the works like the rumoured StarHawk and Twisted Metal. I can't really see how anyone can argue against that. That's one highly enjoyable game every two months. Agree. Im perpetually amazed that the company in the worst financial shape can maintain such a killer release schedule. Especially when they dont sell anywhere close to the amount that Nintendo's comparatively frugal 1st party efforts do.
dazzybee Posted January 7, 2010 Posted January 7, 2010 Just to point out, I don't won't to get into some aggressive argument, not that you are being aggressive or will , but I'll give my thoughts. Promise it/I won't Not really sure how you can justify this when both Microsoft and Sony will have their working answers to buy next year. I'm not talking about adoption rates, we'll have to wait for next generation for them to really have the impact, I'm talking about the fact that both machines will have accessible motion controls this time next year however the Wii will still have significantly less power and weaker infrastructure. But it's all about the software. The WIi Fit board is a freak of nature, but adding in peripherals in the middle of a life cycle never works. I really don't think it'll take off. I personally think Sonys effort will be very very good, technically; but I just don't think it'll have the software. I personally think Natal is a borderline disaster for software; it will be very interesting as an interface, but pure gimmick in software. It simply won't work for most games. So ultimately, although they'll release them, it won't have the effect they desire. But if Nintendo released a Wii HD; I think people would take notice and pretty much eradicate the biggest problem "next gen" gamers have with the Wii (presuming they sort online out) Well here are a few notable games from last year and a few for the coming year. Sony IPs this year; God of War Heavy Rain ModNation Racers Resistance 3 The Last Guardian MAG Gran Turismo 5 (3 New IPs there) Last year; KillZone 2 Uncharted 2 Infamous LittleBigPlanet WipeOut HD Ratchet & Clank (2 New IPs there) I can't really see how anyone can argue against that. That's one highly enjoyable game every two months. It's good. But I really don't think they can compete with Nintendo, I really don't. And are they all first/second party games? Say this year, Nintendo DO release Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid and Zelda...do you really think this DOESN'T wipe the floor with the others? If not, then I guess it really is just a subjective stance. I do love Nintendo games, even their lesser titles - this years Punch Out!!, Excitbots for example. So maybe they just appeal to me more than most. The DS model? The one where families have multiple units? The one where every iteration of the DS can play games from every other version, bar the online DSi games? I don't think you'll be able to play Wii 2/HD games on the Wii. That's called cannibalising your own market. Exactly, the DSi is still insanely popular. If the Wii HD is a souped up Wii which plays all Wii games (maybe even upscales) but enhanced features that games CAN take advantage of (like Motion plus games do, and balance board etc) then I think it would be incredibly successful. If they did this, then they'd keep printing money until Sony and MS did something drastic...
The Lillster Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 I don't mind people disliking Nintendo games, but some times it seems, some people do their best to find faults with them. That's not directed at you Daft, by the way.
Daft Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 Promise it/I won't But it's all about the software. The WIi Fit board is a freak of nature, but adding in peripherals in the middle of a life cycle never works. I really don't think it'll take off. I personally think Sonys effort will be very very good, technically; but I just don't think it'll have the software. I personally think Natal is a borderline disaster for software; it will be very interesting as an interface, but pure gimmick in software. It simply won't work for most games. So ultimately, although they'll release them, it won't have the effect they desire. But if Nintendo released a Wii HD; I think people would take notice and pretty much eradicate the biggest problem "next gen" gamers have with the Wii (presuming they sort online out) Like I said, I'm not talking about the adoption rate. For the point of future proofing, that's what the 360 will be for the next couple years and that's especially what the PS3 is. The PS3 especially, with every new wave of games it looks better and better. They've just upped the disk space of blu-rays simply through a firmware update, and the console will be updated to pump out games in sterioscopic 3D. Both consoles are completely adaptable and if you look at what they offered at their release compared to what they offer now, there have been massive changes and advancements. It's a lot easier to sate people's desires by releasing a peripheral than to release a whole new console, especially when - as much as it may not look like it - the 360 aand PS3 are sitting pretty and selling consistently. Those two consoles can dig in for the long run, no problem - especially if Microsoft relaunch the 360 with Natal. So, and this links in with what I'm about to say, why would anyone jump the gun and launch a new console? I suspect we are about half way through this generation, there's still a long way to go. It's good. But I really don't think they can compete with Nintendo, I really don't. And are they all first/second party games? Say this year, Nintendo DO release Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid and Zelda...do you really think this DOESN'T wipe the floor with the others? If not, then I guess it really is just a subjective stance. I do love Nintendo games, even their lesser titles - this years Punch Out!!, Excitbots for example. So maybe they just appeal to me more than most. Do I think those three games wipe the floor with the quantity and quality of those games? (And yes they are all first and second party titles apart from Demons Souls) Like I said, a game like those every other month? Easily. And then the not 1st/2nd party exclusives on top of that (Yakuza/Agent/White Knight Chronicles), and finally the multiplatform games... Exactly, the DSi is still insanely popular. If the Wii HD is a souped up Wii which plays all Wii games (maybe even upscales) but enhanced features that games CAN take advantage of (like Motion plus games do, and balance board etc) then I think it would be incredibly successful. If they did this, then they'd keep printing money until Sony and MS did something drastic... I think you're getting a bit carried away. They'd be segmenting the market. Owners of the Wii wouldn't be able to play the upgraded version's games. Not to mention, and this really is the obvious point, why would you abandon a 50 million + user base when your console is still selling, when you games are still selling? (Seriously, answer that.) I don't mind people disliking Nintendo games, but some times it seems, some people do their best to find faults with them. That's not directed at you Daft, by the way. I like to think I try and find faults with any game (for example, Assassin's Creed II is appalling).
dazzybee Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 Re: Motion Controls But what I'm saying is developers and consumers simply won't take it up to any level that would be of a threat. It needs to be integrated in from the get-go (hence new hardware); and repackaging 360 won't be enough. Yes they'll have it, but they won't get the software or the consumers. It's a desperate attempt to copy the Wii Re: Games We'll most definitely have to agree to disagree as I prefer Nintendo games by a stretch. generally, I even prefer the Wii exclusives to the biggest of multi-platform games on HD Re: Wii HD Red Steel 2, Wii Sports Resort and Zelda Wii have already abandoned the 50 million Wii owners, it won't do them any hard. Releasing Wii HD is not abadonding the Wii owners. Most games will still be for the Wii, which will also play on the Wii HD - exactly the same as the DS model; there will be 'select' games which are purely for HD - in the same way there are games purely on DSi Ware, or that take advantage of DSi extra capabilities, or just use the balance board or just use WM+. If the WIi HD is a bluray player and/or upscales Wii games then even better. You don't have to upgrade, but if you do you get a better machine with come extra stuff. PERFECT!!
Daft Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 Re: Motion Controls But what I'm saying is developers and consumers simply won't take it up to any level that would be of a threat. It needs to be integrated in from the get-go (hence new hardware); and repackaging 360 won't be enough. Yes they'll have it, but they won't get the software or the consumers. It's a desperate attempt to copy the Wii Hold on, you say this, Re: Wii HD Red Steel 2, Wii Sports Resort and Zelda Wii have already abandoned the 50 million Wii owners, it won't do them any hard. Releasing Wii HD is not abadonding the Wii owners. Most games will still be for the Wii, which will also play on the Wii HD - exactly the same as the DS model; there will be 'select' games which are purely for HD - in the same way there are games purely on DSi Ware, or that take advantage of DSi extra capabilities, or just use the balance board or just use WM+. If the WIi HD is a bluray player and/or upscales Wii games then even better. You don't have to upgrade, but if you do you get a better machine with come extra stuff. PERFECT!! First, the select games that only play on the DSi are cheap to make downloadable game. What you are proposing is that developers make a more expensive HD version of a game for a limited amount of people who will upgrade...even though if graphics where you main concern, you probably wouldn't have stuck just with the Wii? Secondly, and I'm not sure why you think your proposal makes more sense than Microsoft's, you are still segmenting the market. There's a reason the 360 and PS3 cut down on different SKUs, it's confusing to the consumer - and in those cases whatever SKU you bought you could play every game. Microsoft are "treating [Natal] like the launch of a new console" so not only are they effectively (re)launching a console, but the 35 million or so owners of the current 360 can just buy a peripheral and have access to this new set of games (so you've already got a very strong link to a large consumer base). You're pretty much proposing the opposite and beyond you wanting it to work, there is absolutely no indication that it will. You say support will be lacking but Fable III will support it, that's a massive (and amazingly crap) game. UbiSoft are planning 10 games for Natal next year. "]Rare are working on it. Even Epic are supporting it. Not to mention Natal goes beyond games and you can use it on PCs (How many more gamers does that add?). Also, and I don't think you answered this the first time, why would Nintendo do this? The Wii is still selling well. Their games are still selling well. There is no need for them at all. This point is key. Re: Games We'll most definitely have to agree to disagree as I prefer Nintendo games by a stretch. generally, I even prefer the Wii exclusives to the biggest of multi-platform games on HD I'm not really sure how you can, but fine.
Pit-Jr Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 If the WIi HD is a bluray player and/or upscales Wii games then even better. You don't have to upgrade, but if you do you get a better machine with come extra stuff. PERFECT!! Are your expectations really that low? Why not just enjoy the current Wii for what it is and wait for the real Wii replacement. Id much rather Nintendo focus on its next console than simply upgrading the current one to what it should have been in the first place
James McGeachie Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=110180 Just read this. Didn't want to bump the Z&W thread for a sales story. In the over 2 years since release, Zack and Wiki has sold 126,000 units. I'm not sure if this is worldwide or just US though (although I'm positive the Japanese sales will be EXTREMELY low and the European ones not much better/worse). That might've seemed decent if it was sales for a few months or something but over 2 years and that's it...pretty damn poor. Some titles sell that amount in a few hours. I can count myself of one of those few that own the game. Definitely one of the most well executed original concepts on Wii.
dazzybee Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 First, the select games that only play on the DSi are cheap to make downloadable game. What you are proposing is that developers make a more expensive HD version of a game for a limited amount of people who will upgrade...even though if graphics where you main concern, you probably wouldn't have stuck just with the Wii? Not true, full retail games are doing it too. Plus games that have 'extra' features for DSi (Jam Sessions 2 for e.g.). The thing is, I think a WiiHD would be THAT successful, that it wouldn't be for a limited audience. Similar to how WIiMotionPlus only has an install base of...what...15m MAX If that to be honest, but Red Steel 2 and Zelda are going 'ONLY FOR' M+. So making a game 'ONLY FOR' Wii HD wouldn't be a problem, especially as they could easily be ports of 360/PS3 games; with better controls And the thing is, there are alot of people (yourself included) who can't take the Wii seriousy because it's NOT HD, read the OTHER BOARDS, the comment gets thrown around a lot. People want HD. People will want HD even more by the day. The Wii NEEDS to keep up. Secondly, and I'm not sure why you think your proposal makes more sense than Microsoft's, you are still segmenting the market. There's a reason the 360 and PS3 cut down on different SKUs, it's confusing to the consumer - and in those cases whatever SKU you bought you could play every game. Microsoft are "treating [Natal] like the launch of a new console" so not only are they effectively (re)launching a console, but the 35 million or so owners of the current 360 can just buy a peripheral and have access to this new set of games (so you've already got a very strong link to a large consumer base). You're pretty much proposing the opposite and beyond you wanting it to work, there is absolutely no indication that it will. I know they CAN. I just don't think they will. Other than with the Wii, what other peripherals have been successful? I just don't think people will go for it. It takes time for tech to work with games, they won't nail it straight away, people won't buy it, developers will stop developing. It will be a great way to navigate, that's all. Also, and I don't think you answered this the first time, why would Nintendo do this? The Wii is still selling well. Their games are still selling well. There is no need for them at all. This point is key. I didn't answer it. I thought thoroughly. I think I've already answered it in this post. Why would they do it? Because they NEED to. They have lost the "hardcore" gamer and they need them, they want everyone; to get everyone they need to go HD. They don't want to kill off the Wii so will run it as an extra, like the DSi (sorry to keep saying). But it will be so cheap, everyone WILL upgrade; like I said before, throw in them extras (upscaling, DVD, bluray) then people will really push it. That coupled with an improved online infrastructure and really pushing on with their "channels"... they have to do because everything is going HD. They have to do it because Sony and MS have matched them with motion, so they need to match the other consoles. That's why. Are your expectations really that low? Why not just enjoy the current Wii for what it is and wait for the real Wii replacement. Id much rather Nintendo focus on its next console than simply upgrading the current one to what it should have been in the first place I'm sorry, but what are expectations got to do with what I am talking about. I don't get it.
Daft Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 (edited) Not true, full retail games are doing it too. Plus games that have 'extra' features for DSi (Jam Sessions 2 for e.g.). The thing is, I think a WiiHD would be THAT successful, that it wouldn't be for a limited audience. Similar to how WIiMotionPlus only has an install base of...what...15m MAX If that to be honest, but Red Steel 2 and Zelda are going 'ONLY FOR' M+. So making a game 'ONLY FOR' Wii HD wouldn't be a problem, especially as they could easily be ports of 360/PS3 games; with better controls And the thing is, there are alot of people (yourself included) who can't take the Wii seriousy because it's NOT HD, read the OTHER BOARDS, the comment gets thrown around a lot. People want HD. People will want HD even more by the day. The Wii NEEDS to keep up. It makes no business sense. Nintendo don't need the hardcore. Say they did release a Wii HD, what would happen next? It would sell, but probably not like the Wii. I'd assume it would cost more than the Wii. How much? As much as a PS3? The 360 is already much cheaper than the Wii. Who exactly is going to buy it? I can tell you now I wouldn't. I have a Wii and if I want added extras I've got two other consoles that are leagues ahead in every other area. What happens when Microsoft launch their next console? I really think you are confusing what you want to happen with what makes most sense for Nintendo. They don't need to do anything. I know they CAN. I just don't think they will. Other than with the Wii, what other peripherals have been successful? I just don't think people will go for it. It takes time for tech to work with games, they won't nail it straight away, people won't buy it, developers will stop developing. It will be a great way to navigate, that's all. You must have seen the reaction on the internet. E3 last year, everyone went crazy for Natal. It was like the second coming - it's had so much coverage, and not just in the games industry. It got in the list of TIME's best innovations for the year and that's all Natal needs; hype. Natal has the hype, it has the initial games (that would have been in development for at least two years by the time it arrives), it will be launching with a big media push and you would be silly to think that people wouldn't buy it. Hell, they had Burnout Paradise working with it last E3. Not just that, but it was working well and that was not the final Natal product. Yesterday they announced they've removed the chip in the camera so it will probably be quite cheap. Natal will not fail. I'm not sure you're quite getting Natal either. It doesn't have to be about standing up and waving your arms about. In conjunction with a 360 controller it shows a lot of promise for hardcore gaming - just read what Epic have to say about it. Gran Turismo 5 uses the Playstation Eye to track head movement for the cockpit view - applications like that, non-essential but fun ones, will continue to sell the product to current owners. I didn't answer it. I thought thoroughly. I think I've already answered it in this post. Why would they do it? Because they NEED to. They have lost the "hardcore" gamer and they need them, they want everyone; to get everyone they need to go HD. They don't want to kill off the Wii so will run it as an extra, like the DSi (sorry to keep saying). But it will be so cheap, everyone WILL upgrade; like I said before, throw in them extras (upscaling, DVD, bluray) then people will really push it. That coupled with an improved online infrastructure and really pushing on with their "channels"... they have to do because everything is going HD. They have to do it because Sony and MS have matched them with motion, so they need to match the other consoles. That's why. Nintendo don't need the hardcore. 50 million + sales and still counting fast shows that. Edited January 8, 2010 by Daft
dazzybee Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 It makes no business sense. Nintendo don't need the hardcore. Say they did release a Wii HD, what would happen next? It would sell, but probably not like the Wii. I'd assume it would cost more than the Wii. How much? As much as a PS3? The 360 is already much cheaper than the Wii. Who exactly is going to buy it? I can tell you now I wouldn't. I have a Wii and if I want added extras I've got two other consoles that are leagues ahead in every other area. What happens when Microsoft launch their next console? I really think you are confusing what you want to happen with what makes most sense for Nintendo. They don't need to do anything. Oh lord. You are being so short sighted about it. Nintendo is doing well NOW. But will they into the future? This is the mistake Sony made. Don't ever run a business. Things being good now means shit, you have to sustain it. And you may not, but A LOT of people would play the Wii more if it was HD and had those HD games that the Wii doesn't get. If Modern Warfare 2 was out on the Wii, the same as the HD version, with Wii controls - A LOT of people would buy that version. If Sony and MS are attempting to take away Wiis advantage in terms of what it offers then Nintendo shouldn't sit back and watch, it needs to act fast. You must have seen the reaction on the internet. E3 last year, everyone went crazy for Natal. It was like the second coming - it's had so much coverage, and not just in the games industry. It got in the list of TIME's best innovations for the year and that's all Natal needs; hype. Natal has the hype, it has the initial games (that would have been in development for at least two years by the time it arrives), it will be launching with a big media push and you would be silly to think that people wouldn't buy it. Hell, they had Burnout Paradise working with it last E3. Not just that, but it was working well and that was not the final Natal product. Yesterday they announced they've removed the chip in the camera so it will probably be quite cheap. Natal will not fail. I don't care. I really believe Natal is going to bomb in terms of what MS want it to do. It will be even more gimmicky than the Wii now. It simply will not be a good enough device to play games with. You mention Burnout, but people said it has no detailed control, you pressed gas or you didn't. It will be interesting and will have some fantastic uses, but it won't capture the market MS want and it won't HELP them. I'm not sure you're quite getting Natal either. It doesn't have to be about standing up and waving your arms about. In conjunction with a 360 controller it shows a lot of promise for hardcore gaming - just read what Epic have to say about it. Gran Turismo 5 uses the Playstation Eye to track head movement for the cockpit view - applications like that, non-essential but fun ones, will continue to sell the product to current owners. Yeah, fantastic, I will love it. But it won't do anything, it won't replace the WIi, it won't get the WIi market, developers won't really use it; just small gimicky little additions. Nintendo don't need the hardcore. 50 million + sales and still counting fast shows that. Yes they do. They need everyone. Again, I really believe you are being shortsighted. Success now doesn't mean success in the future.
Daft Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 No, an HD Wii would be short-sighted. It would be a reaction to something you keep saying won't catch on at all. Getting people to upgrade to an HD Wii from a Wii would be harder than convincing people to upgrade to Blu-Ray (and that hasn't gone that well). At a time when families are feeling a lot of financial strain you expect them to upgrade to a slightly better machine? If a Wii HD got released it would only become as dated as the Wii is now when Microsoft launch their next console. As shocking as this might be, a lot of people don't care for the Wii controls. I don't. A lot of hardcore gamers don't. (They care about good online, gamertags, trophies/achievements, DLC, sizeable downloadable games - would they really add that to an HD Wii? It'd be a pretty big 'f*ck you' to current Wii owners. As for Blu-Ray or DVD playback? That's a joke, Nintendo won't even pay for mp3 licensing.) You think Nintendo needs to react to these motion controls, that you say you don't think will catch on, by starting a whole new console cycle? No chance. Really, Natal won't be gimmicky because it already has two or three hardcore titles in which it will be fully integrated. I'm not sure why you have such a problem seeing its potential and I don't need you to capitalise certain words, I can read. Suffice to say, it won't happen.
dazzybee Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 But it's not starting a new cycle, why can't you see what I'm saying. Is the DSi a new cycle? No, it's a continuation. That's what I'm saying. Not abandoning anyone, not starting again. And if "families" can't afford to upgrade, they don't have to; that's the idea; people who do want to upgrade (the same people that have bought DSi and the millions and millions of people who don't own Wiis yet) can, they will get a few extra benefits - like a bluray/dvd player, like some games that are 'only for' Wii HD, possibly upscaled normal games. These are "necessary" but great additions for people who think the upgrade is worth it - people upgraded to a DS lite because the screen was a bit brighter and the thing was a bit smaller!!! The price will be very low still, the normal wii gets a small price cut (and taken out of circulation) and viola. And I'm not saying Nintendo need to do this because of the motion controls; if Nintendo don't so this, they will still be very successful; I'm just saying to really kick on, to not lose any market share, to keep "growing" I believe it's something they need to do. And my post spoke about keeping up with HD; I'm saying it's more a case of people wanting HD more and more by the day; Wii was and is okay, but as time goes on it's going to look more and more dated. And however successful Nintendo are, they need to do something about these poor sales from third party games, getting the big games (rather than on-rail shooters) in HD may be a factor. Because even though Modern Warfare Reflex is pretty successful, people won't buy it because it doesn't look as good as the other versions. Sad fact. Same with some of the hardcore games, there are a lot of very shallow people who refuse to take the Wii seriously because it looks like dog. As for the online infrastructure, this is something that Nintendo can develop for both consoles - one friend code, a better social system, more channels, DLC (something they're already sorting etc), even achievements; Nintendo don't have to wait for a new console for this stuff. I'm just saying it makes sense to time it at the same time, all the current Wii owners can get the benefit of it. As for Natal, I guess we'll see on that one. But a couple of "hardcore" games taking advantage of it means shit to me. I personally think the thing will be pretty good. It just won't "do" anything. PS I capitolise for emphasis. That's like me saying you don't have to write in blue, black's fine....
mcj metroid Posted January 10, 2010 Posted January 10, 2010 Oh lord. You are being so short sighted about it. Nintendo is doing well NOW. But will they into the future? This is the mistake Sony made. Don't ever run a business. Things being good now means shit, you have to sustain it. And you may not, but A LOT of people would play the Wii more if it was HD and had those HD games that the Wii doesn't get. If Modern Warfare 2 was out on the Wii, the same as the HD version, with Wii controls - A LOT of people would buy that version. If Sony and MS are attempting to take away Wiis advantage in terms of what it offers then Nintendo shouldn't sit back and watch, it needs to act fast. I agree with bits of both of you and Daft's posts. Let me attempt to try say my beliefs anyway. I believe you're right in saying that the wii cannot rely only on the casual, it's silly thinking. The wii is do well and look unstoppable now but look what happened to the playstation brand. ANy giant can be toppled with one major mistake. I think the wii is continue selling ok maybe but I worry about the successor. I don't however think HD makes THAT much of a difference. I'm no expert in this department mind you but I believe the wii could hold off it's entire lifetime without HD and things would be ok. It looks bad and they'll get bad press but in the end nintendo made the right choice for them. I don't care. I really believe Natal is going to bomb in terms of what MS want it to do. It will be even more gimmicky than the Wii now. It simply will not be a good enough device to play games with. You mention Burnout, but people said it has no detailed control, you pressed gas or you didn't. It will be interesting and will have some fantastic uses, but it won't capture the market MS want and it won't HELP them. I'll juge natal at e3 when we see ACTUAL games. It was quite annoying people going on about how much better than motionplus it will be. THATS Great but where are the games. That being said I'm sure it will be a big success but I feel it will only be as successful as the eyetoy for ps2. Not a gimmick but not a system essential either. I just don't see the 360 lasting THAT much longer than the wii to matter. With the ps3 though it's hard to tell, I believe we'll be with the ps3 for a LONG time yet. Yeah, fantastic, I will love it. But it won't do anything, it won't replace the WIi, it won't get the WIi market, developers won't really use it; just small gimicky little additions. Devs WILL use it though it's not going to BOMB. Microsoft will market the hell out of it. They need to convince the hardcore though because let's face it the wii did almost everything to put them off.
Dante Posted January 10, 2010 Author Posted January 10, 2010 Japan Hardware 2009 (From 12/29/2008 to 12/27/2009 (52 weeks) by Media Create.) Separated Market Shares DS PSP WII PS3 XBOX360
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