Nice

[ReZourceman]

Wow, Aimless what a fucking amazing post.

 

I like to think Im fairly nice aswell, but its completely true you do pretty much not get anywhere or anything from being nice. If anything you get screwed*

 

*See my recent work troubles.

[Paj!]

I consider myself nice, too. And to be honest, one of the most fair and considerate minded people I know.

 

I hate when you feel people walk all over you though..

[Daft]

This isn't a new realisation. I came to the same conclusion many years ago and nothing has changed. Why? Because despite all odds and reason, despite the glaringly obvious fact that this strategy simply isn't working, I don't want to change. I'm broken, flawed and set on a course of self-destruction, but... I like who I am.

 

I really don't get what the problem is.

 

I might be being thick, but would you elaborate?

[Aimless]

I really don't get what the problem is.

 

I might be being thick, but would you elaborate?

I like who I am, as in the thought of deliberately not being nice just seems wrong to me. But if I take a step back and look at the big picture, I can appreciate that being the way I am hasn't done me any favours — quite the opposite, in fact.

 

Analogy time: you're about to take part in a race and it's become obvious that all your competitors are using performance enhancers. You know that to stand any real chance of winning you would have to follow suite, but the very idea goes against your love of the sport. You decide to stay true to yourself and your principles, even though you know you're racing to lose.

 

I'm not after answers or a leg up to some high horse, this thread was just for people to share their views on being nice as it was something I was thinking about at the time.

[Coolness Bears]

I think I'm a nice person...

 

I certainly try to help other people as much as I can and I love to do so. I don't mind people not thanking me or whatever just knowing that I helped is good enough. People have different natures and so some may be wishing to say thank you to you but physically unable to as they are shy or taken back by your kindness as they might not have recieved a kind gesture before.

 

Today was good because I was sitting on my own eating Lunch and someone came over and kept me company. It was a bit awkward and we did not really talk but the fact that they came over was great. It took me all lunch to gather up enough courage to thank this person for keeping me company but I was glad I did as they were pleased by me saying so.

 

Anyway I've lost my trail of thought now....

 

Sometimes what gets in the way and conflicts with my "niceness" is my shyness when this happens I look like a total heartless monster as if I don't care about other people when I do but just do not have the courage to say something. (like earlier today)

 

another example is when:

 

When someone says "Hello how are you?" in a friendly way what I say in my head is "Hello *insert name* I'm feeling great thanks how are you doing? *BIG SMILE* but in reality what happens is I look at them confused and either walk on or mumble hello. I hate when I do this. >_____<

 

I always map out what I'm going to say out in my head but it always ends up coming out wrong. This being said, I'm happy and wouldn't change who I am at all, I like going unnoticed doing nice things and when you do get that occasional thank you it makes feel what you do to try and make the world a bit better to live in worth it.

 

 

I hope to get more confidence so I can help more people and smile at people at people who help me. (rather than looking like a confused sour grape! :p)

 

I cannot say no to people and often end up doing things I do not particularly want to do but if it helps someone else out and makes their day more enjoyale then I'm willing to give up my time and do it. I'd say no if it messed with my morals or something I'm not that much of a pushover.

 

Through kindness you are more secetible to be being used but I do not in anyway let people walk over me and although I look like a weak person (well phyiscally I am ) I'm quite a strong person mentally.

 

"Nice guys finish last" I believe that phrase holds true but I do not want to change who I am to get somewhere in first place as then I would not be happy at all!!!

[Daft]

I like who I am, as in the thought of deliberately not being nice just seems wrong to me. But if I take a step back and look at the big picture, I can appreciate that being the way I am hasn't done me any favours — quite the opposite, in fact.

 

Analogy time: you're about to take part in a race and it's become obvious that all your competitors are using performance enhancers. You know that to stand any real chance of winning you would have to follow suite, but the very idea goes against your love of the sport. You decide to stay true to yourself and your principles, even though you know you're racing to lose.

 

I'm not after answers or a leg up to some high horse, this thread was just for people to share their views on being nice as it was something I was thinking about at the time.

 

That analogy doesn't really clear things up. How has being nice caused problems for you? I'm damn nice, although my posts in this thread might suggest otherwise (I'm really just trying to understand), and like you I think not being nice feels wrong (it's more trouble to not be nice to be honest). However, I've never had a problem with people pushing me around. I'm nice, but I'm not a doormat.

 

I'm not having a go or anything (it's an interesting thread afterall), but it just seems like your talking without really saying anything. Sorry, if you think that is an unfair criticisim.

[Aimless]

I'm not having a go or anything (it's an interesting thread afterall), but it just seems like your talking without really saying anything. Sorry, if you think that is an unfair criticisim.

I'm talking in generalities, but I don't think that equates to not saying anything at all. Still, I'll try to be more specific, albeit with frivolous examples:

 

You're put in a group to work on some kind of project. You offer to write up the findings over the weekend so long as everyone sends you their notes. Sunday comes around and, naturally, you're left to pick up the slack when others take advantage of your generosity. Outcome: other members receive credit for work they had no part in, you have a rubbish weekend.

 

A friend asks to borrow £20, money you know you won't see again but will allow said friend to go a trip with someone else. Outcome: they have a great time with other people, you lose money.

 

You're on the brink of being late for work but decide to give way to an oncoming car. Four more cars decide to take advantage and barrel towards you before you get the chance to pull out. Outcome: those five cars get to wherever they're headed 30 seconds faster, you're late for work.

 

A sibling asks for a lift into town. You want to watch a film on TV but it's only a 10 minute drive so you agree. Halfway through the journey your passenger springs a list of people you need to pick up on the way, detours which will add a good 30 minutes there and back. Outcome: sibling and their friends get a free taxi ride, you miss a good half of the film you wanted to watch and lose out on petrol money.

 

These are all little things — my inspiration is running a little dry at the moment — but the negatives add up. And which way are the positives headed? Away from you.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Alright, I'm going to make a more sober post today.

 

Don't change who you are. In this day and age, I think it's very important for people to be polite and courteous to each other. It pisses me off to no end when people are rude or ignore each other, or interrupt what other people might be saying in conversations.

 

You have humanity. What makes us different from cavemen is intelligence, but also the fact that we have evolved in our attitudes. It doesn't hurt to be a civilised person and ask a friend or somebody else "how are you? Are you ok?" It's free, it doesn't count you a single thing to be nice to somebody, and I don't understand why a lot of the people can't make more effort a lot of the time.

 

If people take advantage of you, then politely tell them that you're not having any of it. You can make a negative comment and it can still come out in the right way. Negativity doesn't always have to be fire and brimstone and burning down buildings. You just politely tell them that you would rather utilise your time on somebody who would find it more beneficial and would appreciate you for doing it.

 

Nice guys don't have to finish last. There are nice people out there, other nice people, of all ages and genders and races. It is merely a case of you deciding who to be nicest to the most. If you open a door for somebody and they don't say thank you, then that's their problem. You did the courteous thing, you did the nice gesture. So, you have nothing to worry about. Continue what you're doing, and eventually you'll find that person who smiles back at you and acknowledges you. The world isn't full of arseholes, although it may seem like it sometimes!

 

What you can do is use your time to be extremely nice to those people who matter to you the most. Keep making the effort, and people will respect you for it. Keep treating your friends the same way in which you would want them to treat you, and they'll either get it or they won't. If they don't get it, then it's them who needs the wake up call, and not you.

 

Don't change who you are. You are who you are. You're a nice person, and you're all the better for it.

[Aimless]

If that was directed at me then I can assure you I'm unable to change even if I wanted to.

 

What I do want is to reiterate that I don't see myself as some virtuous crusader battling the selfish horde. I'm not a great person, I just try to be conscientious of those around me. My point was that being nice is often to one's detriment and yet it's like a habit you can't break out of; it's almost out of your control.

 

Do I think people should stop being nice? Of course not. Do I think that being nice puts people at a disadvantage? Yes. But winning isn't everything. Sometimes you just have to race as best you can.

 

Anyway, I've replied to this thread far too many times. Baton, anyone?

[Daft]

There is nice, and there is being stupid (this might get slightly offensive but I mean it with the best intentions) or a doormat.

 

I'm talking in generalities, but I don't think that equates to not saying anything at all. Still, I'll try to be more specific, albeit with frivolous examples:

 

You're put in a group to work on some kind of project. You offer to write up the findings over the weekend so long as everyone sends you their notes. Sunday comes around and, naturally, you're left to pick up the slack when others take advantage of your generosity. Outcome: other members receive credit for work they had no part in, you have a rubbish weekend.

 

Point out to whoever you're giving this project to, just how unhelpful your group has been. You aren't lying. You requested that they help and they didn't. People don't learn if you hold their hand. They have to experience the consequences of their inactions. In the long term, you will be doing them a favor.

 

A friend asks to borrow £20, money you know you won't see again but will allow said friend to go a trip with someone else. Outcome: they have a great time with other people, you lose money.

 

Don't give them the money. It is pretty logical. If they aren't reliable, tell them. Explain to them why they don't deserve to be lent the money. If they are irrationally angry with you for not lending them money they won't pay back, they can't be that good a friend. And if they are they have to learn, friend ship is a two way thing, something they aren't going to learn if you fold to their every whim.

 

You're on the brink of being late for work but decide to give way to an oncoming car. Four more cars decide to take advantage and barrel towards you before you get the chance to pull out. Outcome: those five cars get to wherever they're headed 30 seconds faster, you're late for work.

 

Well the net result of that is you are a couple minutes late. It isn't a disaster, and if it is, just don't do it. It isn't that you are not being nice, it is simply a logical decision that you need to get somewhere.

 

If this always happens, leave earlier.

 

A sibling asks for a lift into town. You want to watch a film on TV but it's only a 10 minute drive so you agree. Halfway through the journey your passenger springs a list of people you need to pick up on the way, detours which will add a good 30 minutes there and back. Outcome: sibling and their friends get a free taxi ride, you miss a good half of the film you wanted to watch and lose out on petrol money.

 

If it is a 10 minute drive, they can walk. If you still want to take them, and then they pull out their friends list, just drop them off. Unless you're a registered taxi, it isn't your job to ferry people around. If they don't understand that, don;t give them the lift in the first place. Stand up for yourself.

 

These are all little things — my inspiration is running a little dry at the moment — but the negatives add up. And which way are the positives headed? Away from you.

 

You can be nice without compromising yourself. I'm going to be a c*nt now but I've got to be cruel to be kind, you just sound like you can't say "no". It isn't an issue of being nice, it sounds like people are walking over you because you are letting them.

[Aimless]

I just checked in a mirror and I don't have "Welcome" plastered across my face.

 

If you want to view me as a stupid doormat then go right ahead, but to base that upon a handful of hypothetical situations might be a bit... over zealous.

[Daft]

I just checked in a mirror and I don't have "Welcome" plastered across my face.

 

If you want to view me as a stupid doormat then go right ahead, but to base that upon a handful of hypothetical situations might be a bit... over zealous.

 

You're right, it wasn't my place. Sorry.

[Aimless]

You're right, it wasn't my place. Sorry.

I've no issue with you trying to call me out, just bear in mind that I'm more than the sum of my posts on this forum. I try to be as honest as possible, but I probably come across as more maladjusted than I actually am.

 

I always try to 'help' people on here when they really don't need it, so I appreciate where you're coming from. Sure I'm not problem-free, but there is a strange sense of confidence that comes with accepting one's mediocrity.

 

I'm actually a rather stubborn and principled person, so whilst I do take a few hits to make life in general a bit easier I'm in no danger of following people off any cliffs. Perhaps I give too much and let people take advantage, you're probably right about that, but... well, that's just me. Life would be very boring if we were all the same.

[Daft]

I try to be as honest as possible, but I probably come across as more maladjusted than I actually am.

 

That's funny. I probably come across maladjusted in general on these forums, but I'm definitely worse in real life.

 

I think essentially it is easier for people to not bother being nice and other people, I think they just don't consider it.

[Jonnas]

If other people take advantage of me, I usually just remind them everyday of what they did. At least until I'm no longer mad, so it kinda works.

 

A friend asks to borrow £20, money you know you won't see again but will allow said friend to go a trip with someone else. Outcome: they have a great time with other people, you lose money.

 

Remind him everytime you meet him about that money. If the 20 quid are that important, you should have no trouble doing it. If the 20 don't matter, you don't get mad in the first place.

 

A sibling asks for a lift into town. You want to watch a film on TV but it's only a 10 minute drive so you agree. Halfway through the journey your passenger springs a list of people you need to pick up on the way, detours which will add a good 30 minutes there and back. Outcome: sibling and their friends get a free taxi ride, you miss a good half of the film you wanted to watch and lose out on petrol money.

 

A sibling is someone you see many times. If you lost time and money because they told you something at the last second, start acting like they're always hiding something and like you never fully trust them (and, of course, make it clear it was because of that incident). They'll certainly get the point.

 

The same thing can be done about the workmates that fail to keep their promises.

 

These are all little things — my inspiration is running a little dry at the moment — but the negatives add up. And which way are the positives headed? Away from you.

 

You feel better about helping someone, and the negatives don't exactly add up because most of them are short lived. It's not like your life has become worse because of your nice personality.

[Shotgun2k]

What you can do is use your time to be extremely nice to those people who matter to you the most. Keep making the effort, and people will respect you for it. Keep treating your friends the same way in which you would want them to treat you, and they'll either get it or they won't. If they don't get it, then it's them who needs the wake up call, and not you.

 

Don't change who you are. You are who you are. You're a nice person, and you're all the better for it.

 

Completely agree.

 

'Being nice' can have a range of effects: for me, the intent and belief you have in your actions can be crucial. When niceness is delivered as a result of fear, whether it is to seek reward or gain approval, people can sense weakness. Much of F_L's post reflects the need for confidence in yourself; people will more likely "get it" when the niceness is put accross in an assured and confident way.

 

Most importantly, being good to others is inspirational, and whether you notice it or not, it helps us become better people.

[Rummy]

You know, I'm hardly surprised that half the replies to this thread are from nice people, it's probably why these forums rock so much.

 

Myself? I can say I agree to an extent. I try to be 'nice', more in the respect of being honest and not lying, and not letting people down(especially if I say I'll do something, or arrange something, I'll endeavour to arrive before anyone else). Why though? I could call it selflessness, but I'm driven by a selfish desire for people to be like that to me, I'm nice because I wish other people were and they're not, some people just do not see situations from the other point of view, and when they're in it from that point of view they don't realise it's the same situation. Someone did call me 'nice' recently, I put it like that because I think it's an overused and kind of non-word these days, but she said it described me perfectly. I disagreed though. I mean, I do TRY to be nice in some respects, but I'm also incredibly rude and short tempered/lacking patience. I will be nice, but not forever, I give most people a few chances, but I won't put up with it if they mug me off or take advantage of that fact. Well, in the majority of cases anyway, I'm a sucker for a few certain people. In fact, I've been in a bit of a shitty situation lately thats putting a real downer on me at times, and I think it's all due to my niceness, but I can't bring myself to stop being nice and get out of it! It just feels so cold and selfish like.

And you know what? Despite this, I spent my time wish I could be nicer. Then again, I'm also pretty happy with who I am, on the whole, so...I dunno.

 

I think there's a reason why the phrase "Nice guys/gals come last" actually exists and that has been pointed out several times in this thread. It's people as a collective. I'm sure Derren Brown did a study on people on this exact topic. He got a group of people and put them in a scenario where they had to help someone/do something good, and no-one did because they were waiting for someone else to react. It's this so called 'Sheep mentality'.

 

I've been in scenarios where I have acted, and some where I haven't. I try to be as nice and friendly as I can to people and I don't expect anything in return. It does make me wonder do we subconsciously look to a 'leader figure' within the group when said scenarios happen? Someone else to make the tough decision for us? I know I've fallen for this at times, mainly when I don't know the solution. I guess it really depends on situation you're in. I've slightly strayed from the original topic of individuals being nice. What I'm trying to say is even though I am a nice person I will look for other nice people to do the deed for me.

 

I'll agree with this, sometimes I think I should or would do something, and I don't. I don't know if I could attribute it to a shared responsibility thing, I've never taken much note of it conciously(in line with the derren brown thing, I remember hearing during my degree about a famous murder case where lots of people could see and intervene, but no one did because no one else did).

 

I do sometimes just leave it, and let someone else do the nice thing. Sometimes, it's just too much effort being nice! Like being nice all the time, it can be so draining when you never get it in return. It can make you bitter too, or so I've found. Sometimes I wonder why I even bother, why I shouldn't just be as selfish as some of the rest of the world. Though the feeling you get when someone does you a nice deed...it's rather nice!

[jayseven]

Don't know why I haven't seen this post before now! Well the main thing I picked up on, Aimless, was your use of the word "principled"; that right there is your/our downfall. Society has spawned many a doomed fellow like us who adhere to the notion that there is in fact some sort of morality and rightousness to be found in everyone. That we have the ability to be conscious of right and wrong is often deemed to be the purest, most human trait that defines our species.

 

The whole idea of vices and virtues, of honour and politeness is derived from an era where there was a reason to behave suchly -- the idea of some sort of reward for being a 'good' person at the end of it all. While during the first half of our 'modern' world these maxims held truer due to the overpowering philosophy of deism. But nowadays, everyone believes that they deserve something from life, and will gladly take anything 'free' feeling they are owed it for this reason or that; be it bad acne during adolescence, or finding a scratch on your car we all have 'reasonable' explanations for why we should feel entitled to some sort of benefit or other.

 

Unfortunately, there is no heaven, no hell, no reward for being a saint besides your own satisfaction that you are, basically, doing what you wish others would do for you, if/when you ever needed them.

 

Nobody is entitled to anything. But to be honest I'd rather be a decent person in myself and struggle through life than become some sort of corporate puppet, lost in the faux-maze of life that we're told exists.

 

The thing about being a nice guy is precisely what you've said - it's not that people wouldn't do anything for you, it's asking them in the first place. I would reckon that ultimately your problem isn't being a nice guy, just a sort of fear of imposing upon their space/time. In a sense, you don't want to control others. You don't want to make their decisions for them, thus limiting their 'free will'.

 

I was going to give you a most excellent analogy with Wolves and Shadows, but I have a train to catch!

[Patch]

Great thread. Aimless' posts are always good to read.

 

For what little it's worth:

 

I think as a general rule, you have to do what makes you feel happy. I forget who said it*, but in reality there are no selfless deeds. Those who are nice to others do so to make themselves feel good about themselves. But there is a line; a point at which you would refuse to help someone if they asked too much of you. This is the point where either your feeling of indignance at them or the inconvenience to you outweighs the satisfaction of helping them. The point at which you'd be unhappy. We all draw this line somewhere.

 

*I'm sure someone came up with this before Monica and Phoebe.

[Jamba]

Great thread. Aimless' posts are always good to read.

 

For what little it's worth:

 

I think as a general rule, you have to do what makes you feel happy. I forget who said it*, but in reality there are no selfless deeds. Those who are nice to others do so to make themselves feel good about themselves. But there is a line; a point at which you would refuse to help someone if they asked too much of you. This is the point where either your feeling of indignance at them or the inconvenience to you outweighs the satisfaction of helping them. The point at which you'd be unhappy. We all draw this line somewhere.

 

*I'm sure someone came up with this before Monica and Phoebe.

 

I think that most people do things to improve the world around them but everyone has different things that they find more important and so it might seem to you that they are wankers when they aren't.

 

Some people may find that doing the little things like opening doors and being polite help the world go round (for them) but then you may have people who say that that stuff is secondary to say stopping people being unfair.

 

I used to have a reaaaally big chip on my shoulder about unfairness but I found that it was upsetting me so much that I had to let it go. I still get very angry when people who I'd categorise as harmless are left out because they are a bit odd or not funny enough and such crap. Give me a slightly boring yet reliable friend any day over someone who's really funny anytime.

 

For me, I feel duty bound to help people maintain a certain level of "goodness" and I find it hard to like people who go and do something destructive or negative "for the lulz". I would diswade all of my friends from such activities too.

 

On top of this, I would be unhappy with myself if I made anyone's day worse who didn't deserve it. I'm nice to old people for instance because their lives are pretty banal and tedious and I know that they often feel like everyone ignores them. I would be nice to kids and teens if I could do it in a way that didn't make me feel like a pedo.

 

But yeah, I say be nice to strangers (just don't follow them or take sweets form them and so on) cos to me, if we aren't nice to people that we hardly know or are constantly thinking about the worst case scenario then we would never get out of our house.

 

[patrickswayze] Fear! .... Love!.... [/patrickswayze]

[Guest bluey]

But yeah, I say be nice to strangers (just don't follow them or take sweets form them and so on)

your argument is both flawed and ridiculous.

strangers have the best candy. everyone knows that.

[Slaggis]

I generally consider all compliments I receive as sarcastic comments and totally dismiss them.

 

I'm the same as you. I just can't take a compliment, it's like something inside me refuses to accept it.

 

My mate last night said as I was walking her home "Why do you have to be so nice!". I wasn't sure whether that was a compliment or not lol. But great post aimless, when you make a thread you always know it's worth a read.

[Ashley]

"We don't take the compliments but please don't stop." Yup, I have to throw in The Format lyrics when possible.

 

Anywho. I am by and large falsly nice. I smile to people, I ask people I have no interest in how they are and all because its easier, and looks better on me. I can put on charm and politeness. I have to for areas of my life (photography and work) and it seeps across. I know if I charm I am more likely to get what I want. But that's to strangers. To people I know I am a bit more genuinely nice as I do care about some of them.

 

And I did a nice deed yesterday. Was taking photographs for the carnival committee (weird word, lots of double letters) and took a fair few of a local non-profitable dog training school and I offered to send them the photos for their own use (providing its not sold on) free of charge. Shall also, in the email I send, offer my services again if they wish. Of course, it isn't selfless as it provides me with a portfolio.

 

So yeah, suppose im selfishly nice.