The Economics of Happiness

[Daft]

I know this looks like a daunting read but I guarantee you it'll at least be an interesting one hopefully with people providing a few of their own thoughts on the matter.

 

There is a new school of economic thought, one that errs away from the age old assumption "the more you consume, the better off you are", starting to ask "What factors make people happy?"

 

Consider this: once people have an annual income of about $10,000 per capita, further income does little to promote happiness. Worse yet, economic growth growth in most industrial nations, which has tripled or quadrupled our wealth since 1970, hasn't made us noticeably happier. In some countries, despite all this vast increase in wealth and consumption, folks are less happy than they were a generation ago.

 

Rafael Di Tella, an Argentinean economist at the Harvard Business School explains, "Some of the very basic things we assumed in economics are not consistent with the evidence. This idea that income is so important to happiness is not correct. All the evidence seems to be pointing in the direction that we are working too much. In fact, we're happy if we work less. We are spending too much time on work and too little time with friends and family. So there is a mistake in the economic model that suggests happiness will come from more income."

 

"One of the keys to achieving happiness is to live appreciating what one has, rather than wanting more. It is important that we not be totally focused on wanting something that we don't have - that makes for unhappy people.

So it's not at all healthy for children to be bombarded with stories on the box that make them feel that they have to have this particular brand of clothing or this particular toy or train or whatever it is, as if they can't be a decent human being without it."

 

What is more interesting is the focus on the gap between rich and poor, "It's a very simple fact that an extra dollar is worth more in terms of happiness to a poor person than to a rich person."

 

INDIA, Mumbai (Bombay), A woman uses a hose in a narrow residential alley in Dharavi, one of Mumbai's biggest and longest standing slums. Home to between 600,000 and one million people, it is a behive of recycling and manufacturing industries.

 

UNITED STATES, Chicago.

 

 

"We have all the riches, all the wealth, but do we have human warmth? Just below our mesmerizing surfaces lies a psychic mist of anxiety, guilt and depression so heavy that it can no longer be relieved by another purchase."

 

We are used to thinking of the suburbs as happy places and the slums of the world as hellholes where people live shortm brutal lives. But look again. Where do the juices of life flow? Where do families hang together and vibrant communities throb with energy? Where do people really live?

 

I guess I'm trying to ask something along the lines of where are people happiest and why? Are we being sterilized money and our desires for it?

 

I've borrowed heavily from Adbusters, but I thought this would make a good discussion, failing that, at least a good read and a recommendation to pick up this fantastic magazine if you can.

[MoogleViper]

Well that was pretty obvious. You give a deprived child a toy then they will love and cherish it. You give a spoilt child a toy then they will just throw it with the rest of their toys. We are spoilt with money. But it's the way our society works. It's the way our lives work. Very few people could change.

[Daft]

Very few people could change.

 

Why do you think that is?

[Kirkatronics]

Those pictures are biased.

A picture of people shopping but not smiling.

VS

A picture of people in poverty smiling.

It could easily be reversed..

[Brian Mcoy]

Well that was pretty obvious. You give a deprived child a toy then they will love and cherish it. You give a spoilt child a toy then they will just throw it with the rest of their toys. We are spoilt with money. But it's the way our society works. It's the way our lives work. Very few people could change.

 

Mcoy knows we can do this because we are winners

[JoeTrumpet]

Thanks for the good read. I'd like to see where the scholars take this next.

[Pit-Jr]

When i first got a job i spent every dollar i made, usually running out of money before my next paycheck.

 

Its taken me a while, but ive discovered the less material clutter i own, the better off i am.

[Ashley]

Its an interesting concept, although one that doesn't seem so new....the old 'money can't buy you true happiness' thing. But yeah the pictures are biased (and the Chicago one is creepy).

 

But personally its something I keep thinking lately about where to draw the line between wanting money to feel secure (ie not have to worry "oh noes I have no money!") but also feeling happy.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Good thread, dude.

 

Just out of curiosity, when did the idea of money or value come into existence? I've been wondering about that for a long time.

 

I think it's very hard to find a middle ground. One person living in slums is on one end of the scale, and another person shopping in a supermarket is another end, both are extremes (ok, maybe if the person was filthy rich and the market was...waitrose). Where's the middle ground?

 

I think it's important to have money, so that you're not struggling with these troubles. At the moment, I'm struggling to pay rent and bills, and it really gets me down. So, the lack of money is causing me stress and unhappiness. I think once you have enough to get by comfortably, and then maybe a tiny bit extra for security, then that's important.

 

I think the idea of safety and security is more important than having loads of money itself. If you have enough money to comfortably pay rent, eat decent food, pay bills, and a little bit extra in case of emergencies, and then maybe a little bit for going out, meals with friends, then you can't really go wrong. Once you have financial safety, you've pretty much got a solid platform to stand on then. It makes things a whole lot easier, such as starting families.

 

I can't wait for the day when I have a steady income in my chosen profession. Then all this ducking and diving will hopefully be less of a problem.

[gaggle64]

Good thread, dude.

Just out of curiosity, when did the idea of money or value come into existence? I've been wondering about that for a long time.

 

There are a number of theories, the most popular one being that in ancient times (about 650bc some reckon) people would trade produce and services and whatnot with others, eg, I might help a shepard fix up his shed if he was willing to give me one of his lambs for lunch. Of course people started to realise that hauling 6 cows down to the pub to exchange them for some geese and a live beehive wasn't the most practical way to go about things, and that's when metal tokens of a certain value were introduced for an easier form of exchange. Just imagine payday at the call centre with everyone wandering around carrying orange trees and live cattle.

[Daft]

Those pictures are biased.

A picture of people shopping but not smiling.

VS

A picture of people in poverty smiling.

It could easily be reversed..

 

The photos really aren't meant to be taken as an end all. They're selected to show the difference between our quick-fix one-hour-photo society and an essentially more natural way of life.

 

People in the West have lost the desire to be active participants in their own lives. For example, take type 2 diabetes. It is often brought on by obesity but if a sufferer loses 10% of his or her body weight, the effects of the disease can be minimized, even eradicated. However people will generally find surgery more appealing than working towards their own health, essentially saying "It's my life, but I'd rather yo do the work."

 

I think the idea of safety and security is more important than having loads of money itself. If you have enough money to comfortably pay rent, eat decent food, pay bills, and a little bit extra in case of emergencies, and then maybe a little bit for going out, meals with friends, then you can't really go wrong. Once you have financial safety, you've pretty much got a solid platform to stand on then. It makes things a whole lot easier, such as starting families.

 

But thats the thing, after you have enough money to pay the rent, eat decent food, pay bills and have a little extra, how much time do you have? Are you (I don't mean you specifically ) really that happy or just content?

 

I'm glad people are liking this discussion!

[MoogleViper]

Why do you think that is?

 

Just a general feeling I have about people. They only truly appreciate something when it's gone. But taking something away from somebody doesn't make them appreciate the things they do have.

 

Some people can change and some people have. But as a general population I'd say most can't. The only way is forward.

 

Mcoy knows we can do this because we are winners

 

Obviously Mcoy can change. But can he change into first person?

[Fierce_LiNk]

There are a number of theories, the most popular one being that in ancient times (about 650bc some reckon) people would trade produce and services and whatnot with others, eg, I might help a shepard fix up his shed if he was willing to give me one of his lambs for lunch. Of course people started to realise that hauling 6 cows down to the pub to exchange them for some geese and a live beehive wasn't the most practical way to go about things, and that's when metal tokens of a certain value were introduced for an easier form of exchange. Just imagine payday at the call centre with everyone wandering around carrying orange trees and live cattle.

 

That's pretty interesting, cheers for that.

 

I once devised a system with a friend where you would pay using stones. Pebbles, the smaller ones, would be of a small value, but then big fuck-off rocks would be worth a lot.

 

We thought it would be good for communism, because rocks and pebbles ain't that hard to come by. But then, he figured that some countries have 'easier' access to stones. Such as war-torn countries. So we threw that idea out the window.

 

Wow, did I just talk about stones?

 

But thats the thing, after you have enough money to pay the rent, eat decent food, pay bills and have a little extra, how much time do you have? Are you (I don't mean you specifically ) really that happy or just content?

 

I'm glad people are liking this discussion!

 

But then, you're never going to be happy 100% of the time, and sometimes you're happy and you just don't know it! You can never be all that happy with your financial situation, because usually it's something you worry about. It's never something you're over the moon with...unless you won the lottery or something.

 

I think the feeling of being content needs to come first before being happy. If you're content with you're living arrangements, your family life and other things, then you're in a good situation. There's always room for improvement, but the main thing is being "ok" first. With football, you need to achieve mediocrity before you can become a superstar. It's progression. Happiness can come from different things, but if you have the right foundation, a stable platform to build off, then you're in the driving seat.

[MoogleViper]

I once devised a system with a friend where you would pay using stones. Pebbles, the smaller ones, would be of a small value, but then big fuck-off rocks would be worth a lot.

 

We thought it would be good for communism, because rocks and pebbles ain't that hard to come by. But then, he figured that some countries have 'easier' access to stones. Such as war-torn countries. So we threw that idea out the window.

 

But stones are plentiful so therefore there would be so many that they would lose all value.

[Will]

It's an interesting subject, and I saw a chart just a few days ago which would have been perfect if I could find it. Basically I think if you earn less than the cost of decent living then happiness goes up a great deal as you earn more money. Once you have enough to live comfortably extra money doesn't particularly make a massive difference although more always allows you greater freedoms.

 

I do think there's too much emphasis on having as much money as possible, but lets face it, in our society you pretty much have to have some to get by.

 

Personally I earn enough to pay all my rent and bills and do pretty much whatever I want within my day to day life. I'd like to earn 10k or so more just to open up a few things I'd like to be able to do but can't quite on my current income. After that I think I'd be quite content, more would always be good but I think after that point its a bonus rather than something I'd work myself into the ground for.

[Daft]

Just a general feeling I have about people. They only truly appreciate something when it's gone. But taking something away from somebody doesn't make them appreciate the things they do have.

 

Some people can change and some people have. But as a general population I'd say most can't. The only way is forward.

 

I completely agree. Personally I'm amazed at the amount of people who read newspapers and accept what they are told no questions asked and the regurgitate said information ad nauseam. However I'm still not sure where this idea of money equating happiness comes from and why most of us are raised with that idea.

 

But then, you're never going to be happy 100% of the time, and sometimes you're happy and you just don't know it! You can never be all that happy with your financial situation, because usually it's something you worry about. It's never something you're over the moon with...unless you won the lottery or something.

 

I think the feeling of being content needs to come first before being happy. If you're content with you're living arrangements, your family life and other things, then you're in a good situation. There's always room for improvement, but the main thing is being "ok" first. With football, you need to achieve mediocrity before you can become a superstar. It's progression. Happiness can come from different things, but if you have the right foundation, a stable platform to build off, then you're in the driving seat.

 

Well of course, with the exception of psychotropic drugs being pumped into the atmosphere, not everyone is going to be 100% happy all of the time. The feeling is though that society today is geared towards the mechanical efficiency of keeping people content yet productive. There is always the illusion that happiness is something you build on, like you said, but what if it was a lot easier than that. What if this is just a system put in place to keep everyone "content".

 

If you look at the graph below it shows that consumption spreads faster today but it hasn't made people much happier, in fact the opposite seems more true.

 

 

It just seems to me, the more you consume the less you live.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Well of course, with the exception of psychotropic drugs being pumped into the atmosphere, not everyone is going to be 100% happy all of the time. The feeling is though that society today is geared towards the mechanical efficiency of keeping people content yet productive.

 

I do agree with that, it does seem very mechanical, and I think these days there's a huge divide amongst young people, between those who have responsibilities and those who don't. On one hand, you've got people working whilst in education or supporting families, scraping by. On the other hand, you've got people claiming on benefits.

 

I think society will always be geared towards productivity, for the simple fact that if we didn't, nothing would ever get bluddy done! Again, there's separation, because some people are working in the areas they want to work in, whilst some are stuck in dead end jobs which they don't want to be a part of. Just the other day, I was shopping in a supermarket, and the cashier was one of the grumpiest I had ever met. Well, good forbid me coming into your store, paying for items, and causing you to work for your money!

 

It's always been the same though. There's only a few ways you can come by money; thievery, drug-dealing, or getting a job. It's pretty much the same now as it was 10/20 years ago, and probably will be in 20 years after this thread. People need money to get by, and the easiest way to do that is to work. The choice, however, is where you decide to work. I think there is choice there. Of course, where you are depends on the choices available to you...but then that's a different argument?

 

 

There is always the illusion that happiness is something you build on, like you said, but what if it was a lot easier than that. What if this is just a system put in place to keep everyone "content".

 

If you look at the graph below it shows that consumption spreads faster today but it hasn't made people much happier, in fact the opposite seems more true.

 

It just seems to me, the more you consume the less you live.

 

I've read something, not so long ago, about electronics and devices. The article stated that teenagers who used mobile phones were also the most anxious. I'd like to know how many people actually carry phones with them, just for shock value.

 

For me, using a mobile phone is a means of communication. I can still keep in contact with family when I'm far away, and friends, too. But, other people get stressed using these things, especially when they don't work, malfunction. It's damn well annoying and that affects their attitude. Having a job where you have to use these all day must piss you off.

 

But then, what makes you happy? How does a person obtain happiness? I think there's more than just one set way you can do this, and there's more than one form of happiness. How exactly do you know what happiness is, and how is it that different than feeling content?

 

To me, happiness would be spending some time with friends, having fun. Somebody else might define it in a different way. Maybe that's the question: what is being happy all about?

 

(I'm sorry if a lot of this doesn't make sense or seems way-ward. My sister has just come over with her kids, and they're running around causing havoc. I'll refine my ideas later!)

[MoogleViper]

However I'm still not sure where this idea of money equating happiness comes from and why most of us are raised with that idea.

 

"You've got to do well in school and get a good job."

"If you don't get good grades you'll never have any money."

"If you don't go to university you'll never have a good job."

 

That and the fact that every games console, toy, TV, PC etc. that you ever wanted has cost money. Moe money = more toys. More toys = more fun/happiness. Or so most people think anyway.