McPhee Posted May 16, 2008 Posted May 16, 2008 I don't see it catching on. It'll highlight the bad games, causing their sales to drop. Publishers ain't gonna like that at all... Obviously im quite a cynical person though. I actually do hope it works and i applaud you guys for trying Good luck!
LazyBoy Posted May 17, 2008 Author Posted May 17, 2008 Well here is somewhat of a preliminary plan. 1. We need to set up a small website or area where we can discuss (I don't want to be bombing N-Europe) 2. Those here who want to help will verify a plan on those forums 3. We certify the criteria for the award 4. We set a structure. We'll need the members of the board, forums moderators, people to go around forums spreading the word and bringing people in. People to contact media like IGN (some will eat it up I think), people to get in contact with publishers and developers. Spread the word. 5. Insert into our signatures a small thing about the award so people know we listen to it. 6. Begin the process 7.??? 8. Profit So the first thing we need to know is where can we set up camp?
Marshmellow Posted May 17, 2008 Posted May 17, 2008 Well you need some members that are good with making a site look attractive, and the site needs to be constantly updated, too many good ideas just dwindle away on the internet from lack of time put into them. I'll help in anyway possible, but I'm shit when it comes to website design.
wildo Posted May 17, 2008 Posted May 17, 2008 Ok dude this is a fantasic idea, I can see this working but it will need a lot of effort and time to be pored into this. I have me quite a few links within the world of gaming (kinda have to if your the PR guy) which will help this cuase out. I shall add you msn and talk over a few things with ya.
Deathjam Posted May 17, 2008 Posted May 17, 2008 Didn't expect it to have such a grand scope, but I think it's fantastic if it has such an aim. I think shino brought up the idea of when the seal's would be put on. I mean, if we are to play a game, how do we forecast that it won't sell? Just because it's a certain type of game? And then when do they get put on? Before the games are in the shops? Or afterwards, when the number of their sales are in? Also, the seal will need an incredible amount of credibilty or backing behind it, before it will get placed on games. All that said count me in. Got too much time on my hands now.
LazyBoy Posted May 17, 2008 Author Posted May 17, 2008 Didn't expect it to have such a grand scope, but I think it's fantastic if it has such an aim. I think shino brought up the idea of when the seal's would be put on. I mean, if we are to play a game, how do we forecast that it won't sell? Just because it's a certain type of game? And then when do they get put on? Before the games are in the shops? Or afterwards, when the number of their sales are in?Also, the seal will need an incredible amount of credibilty or backing behind it, before it will get placed on games. All that said count me in. Got too much time on my hands now. All these are things that we would have to talk over. At the moment i'm actually thinking it would be put on every game that qualifies, regardless of sales. We would give the seal as the games goes Gold. Now the problem is, how do we know it is good? Well one of the most important things isn't how brilliant the game is, but the effort put into it. An original risky 80% game is more worthy than a 90% FPS sequel. An effort is something we can see without playing the game. Credibility. I reckon if you go around gaming websites, the media, and developers and tell them our cause, they'll want to help. Remember Cassamassinia's (?) pleas for people play Zack and Wiki? Now why wouldn't he want to help for the same reasons. It can work, but it'll require some effort. Right now I need to talk to some people who have experience with websites (making for them, paying for them). Please drop me a PM if you don't mind helping.
Emasher Posted May 17, 2008 Posted May 17, 2008 Someone should set up and xsorbit forum right away. They are free.
Charlie Posted May 17, 2008 Posted May 17, 2008 Someone should set up and xsorbit forum right away. They are free. They're free for a reason... Lazyboy, you Sir, have yourself a PM.
spirited away Posted May 17, 2008 Posted May 17, 2008 I'm in. It's an issue that we all recognise and it would be good to try and do something about it. I have a freind that has designed a few websites. He's not a professional or anything but he's been working on photoshop for 3/4 years and gets the odd job.
The fish Posted May 17, 2008 Posted May 17, 2008 Once I've finished my exams, I can considerably increase my dedication. This is a very, very good idea.
Deathjam Posted May 17, 2008 Posted May 17, 2008 Im more of a person who can think up an escuse for anything, and a problem to go with it. So i think my pessimistic thinking could be handy
Vicar Posted May 17, 2008 Posted May 17, 2008 Well I can help with getting news I´m always on the hunt for new updates on any gaming website but I have no skills in making a website plus when (and if) this comes togeather I could send an E-mail to and video game show here on Iceland and ask them to tell people about it, it would probably make people look at the site at least once :P
Maiky-NiSuTe Posted May 17, 2008 Posted May 17, 2008 i can give you a closed section on my site's forum. (trust me nisute isnt a thred to n-europe)
LazyBoy Posted May 18, 2008 Author Posted May 18, 2008 Well here's the deal I have very kindly got an offer for us to set up a secure area over at NiSuTe. I'll PM all those who have shown interest so they can get in and we can then start the organization. Thanks again everyone. Edit: We now have a temporary base set up over at the NiSuTe forums. So as not to mess up the N-Europe space I ask that anyone interested in being part of the project sign up over there and start posting.
Charlie Posted May 18, 2008 Posted May 18, 2008 Tried signing up there but get an error... Anyone else getting this error? General Error Failed sending email :: PHP :: DEBUG MODE Line : 234 File : emailer.php
LazyBoy Posted May 18, 2008 Author Posted May 18, 2008 Bottom of the forum index, organisation thread, my name is just 'Boy' over there. Charlie, don't know what to tell you there, keep trying or contact Maiky.
Roostophe Posted May 18, 2008 Posted May 18, 2008 I've signed up. Trying to look for the thread thing, though.
LazyBoy Posted May 18, 2008 Author Posted May 18, 2008 Ha sorry about the confusion lads, apparently Maiky had them hidden. PM him telling him you want in and he'll let you.
Gizmo Posted May 18, 2008 Posted May 18, 2008 I really don't see this working, at all. Nice idea in theory, a title for lesser known games to be given by the gamers to increase sales and therefore encourage more games like that. But do you really think that games journalists aren't gamers? Why would anyone be a games journalist if they weren't? Suddenly because they judge games as a career, they can no longer judge games? You think average-joe casual gamer knows/cares wtf happens at Gamespot.com? And why would a publisher put an acolade from a group of non-professionals on their adverts and boxarts, when they have review scores from people who do it for a living? This isn't going to help sales of stuff like Zack and Wiki and No More Heroes. Look at how crazy IGN went for Z&W. Games that are good will be praised as good online, the thing is the people who you are targeting for this idea to generate sales for underappreciated games wouldn't know about this/pay attention to it any more than they would a "90% IGN.com!" badge. How will this idea help? It's basically aimed at the same group of games that websites will try and hype, except this is an "amateur" version. If anything, that has less sway with the public. Also, who decides who decides? Are people going to be elected like a governmental style organisation, with regular elections to change the representatives? If not, will it not surely just become an elitist group decided on their own opinions? Won't this just become an inside group of people who decide on it, with people on the outside laughing at your futile efforts? And again, why would publishers respect this at all? Sorry, but this just will not work, and even if it did, wouldn't have any sway at all.
blender Posted May 18, 2008 Posted May 18, 2008 how are "gamers" going to agree on anything ? that is why we have reviews, forums etc. DOomed PS I hated the metroid series. it got the sales it deserved
LazyBoy Posted May 18, 2008 Author Posted May 18, 2008 I really don't see this working, at all. Nice idea in theory, a title for lesser known games to be given by the gamers to increase sales and therefore encourage more games like that. But do you really think that games journalists aren't gamers? Why would anyone be a games journalist if they weren't? Suddenly because they judge games as a career, they can no longer judge games? You think average-joe casual gamer knows/cares wtf happens at Gamespot.com? And why would a publisher put an acolade from a group of non-professionals on their adverts and boxarts, when they have review scores from people who do it for a living? This isn't going to help sales of stuff like Zack and Wiki and No More Heroes. Look at how crazy IGN went for Z&W. Games that are good will be praised as good online, the thing is the people who you are targeting for this idea to generate sales for underappreciated games wouldn't know about this/pay attention to it any more than they would a "90% IGN.com!" badge. How will this idea help? It's basically aimed at the same group of games that websites will try and hype, except this is an "amateur" version. If anything, that has less sway with the public. Also, who decides who decides? Are people going to be elected like a governmental style organisation, with regular elections to change the representatives? If not, will it not surely just become an elitist group decided on their own opinions? Won't this just become an inside group of people who decide on it, with people on the outside laughing at your futile efforts? And again, why would publishers respect this at all? Sorry, but this just will not work, and even if it did, wouldn't have any sway at all. 1. The difference between this and a games journalist/reviewer, is its authority. A review of a game is one person, one expert granted, but just one person. This would be the choice of the community itself. It would be a consensus, and it is because it is that it carries more weight. 2. Developers will put it on their boxes, eventually. For the same reason as above. Plus it would be more eye-catching to the mother buying the game for her son. They don't know what an IGN is but a gamer's seal of approval? It's self-explanatory really. And when someone is scared about sales then they'll put it on. And once one person puts it on, everyone will want it. 3. Ask a person in the general public what IGN is - nothing. The seal would be simple to understand for those who see the advert on TV or on a box. It would be universal, so people could become familiar with with. 4. The idea at the moment is too have a board, maybe 6 people who make the final decision. However the bulk of their decision will be made the forum goers, so unless the forum is split down the middle on whether to award it or not, the board really has no power. 5. Publishers don't have to respect it. They need it. If you have a game like NMH, low forcast sales, 80%, then putting the thing on the box will be no big thing. Once one person puts it on, people start looking for it, then the publishers start asking why they haven't got one. When it finally comes to when they do get one in order to not feel left out they put it on. Simple as.
Gizmo Posted May 18, 2008 Posted May 18, 2008 1. The difference between this and a games journalist/reviewer, is its authority. A review of a game is one person, one expert granted, but just one person. This would be the choice of the community itself. It would be a consensus, and it is because it is that it carries more weight. A consensus of who? Any old GameFAQs user who decides to sign up to your message board? Or a stringently maintained "elite" group of people that are chosen to do it themselves? How does a "consensus" make any difference, compared to a group of reviews by professionals? People aren't going to notice that one reviewer gave it a 5 instead of a 9 (see;Gamespot on Lost Winds) because the game makers won't put it on the box (yes Lost Winds is a downloadable game but you get the point) in the same way that the minority disagreeing with giving the award are ignored because you either give it or don't. I don't see what the difference is, other than that the reviewers are professionals who have been given their status due to their expertise in the area, rather than a bunch of random people who have signed up to a message board. You said yourself later in the post, the board effectively has no power. Are you going to go nazi on who you let sign up? Perhaps an IQ test during the sign up process, as well as a "Fanboyism" test, to ensure nobody comes along to diss MGS4 just because its a PS3 exclusive? 2. Developers will put it on their boxes, eventually. For the same reason as above. Plus it would be more eye-catching to the mother buying the game for her son. They don't know what an IGN is but a gamer's seal of approval? It's self-explanatory really. And when someone is scared about sales then they'll put it on. And once one person puts it on, everyone will want it. They don't know what a "Gamers Seal Of Approval" warrants either. How do they know the process which the game has gone through to get this award rather than any other review score? Are you going to do a nationwide advertising campaign to raise awareness? Because otherwise your point is completely moot. 3. Ask a person in the general public what IGN is - nothing. The seal would be simple to understand for those who see the advert on TV or on a box. It would be universal, so people could become familiar with with. In the same way that an IGN score is universal? "oh, there was 90% IGN on the front of Zelda, and theres a 90% IGN on the front of this. I liked Zelda, this must be good too". Conversely if you don't like that argument it works completely against you in the other way. "Gamers seal of approval? Where does this come from?" What makes anybody in the general public think that is any more valuable than an IGN score? 4. The idea at the moment is too have a board, maybe 6 people who make the final decision. However the bulk of their decision will be made the forum goers, so unless the forum is split down the middle on whether to award it or not, the board really has no power. See point 1. You're either going to have a load of idiots in the voting process, GameFAQs style, or you're going to be completely nazi about it and be a laughing stock for anyone outside the circle. It will be impossible to find a middle ground to that. It will also be completely impossible to avoid fanboyism and people ruining it for the sake of ruining it. This is a 4chan raid waiting to happen - whether its because its so easy to sign up, and they attack from the front, or because it's so difficult and they decide to ruin it out of spite from the back door. 5. Publishers don't have to respect it. They need it. If you have a game like NMH, low forcast sales, 80%, then putting the thing on the box will be no big thing. Once one person puts it on, people start looking for it, then the publishers start asking why they haven't got one. When it finally comes to when they do get one in order to not feel left out they put it on. Simple as. I don't see you getting to that stage at all. You will be laughed at. You won't get that first person including it. It will not explode onto every second box art like you predict. The publishers will see it and think; how silly. And proceed to continue with their boxart with the high IGN score that the game deserves, which as yet has had little effect on sales. I refer you again to Zack and Wiki, which IGN absolutely went nuts for prior to release. They had a "Buy Zack and Wiki" campaign. Yet the game still did not sell millions. In fact, I just checked my Zack and Wiki box and they haven't even got anything from that IGN campaign on the boxart. Do you not think if that would have had any chance of spurring sales it would have gone on the box? Thinking about it now, that says to me that the publishers don't even particularly see much sway on this thing at all; you're award is even more worthless than that. If Capcom (who published Z&W, correct?) didn't include any info about IGN's campaign, why would they pay attention to your approval? You just haven't thought this through at all. It will NOT work. If this works, and in the next 5 years this "seal of approval" appears on a boxart, I will personally Paypal you £100. If you went onto Dragons Den with this idea you'd be laughed at and told to go away. (I realise this isn't a profit making idea and that the DD comparison is really quite irrelevant but I think you understand what I mean when I say it).
LazyBoy Posted May 19, 2008 Author Posted May 19, 2008 A consensus of who? Any old GameFAQs user who decides to sign up to your message board? Or a stringently maintained "elite" group of people that are chosen to do it themselves? How does a "consensus" make any difference, compared to a group of reviews by professionals? People aren't going to notice that one reviewer gave it a 5 instead of a 9 (see;Gamespot on Lost Winds) because the game makers won't put it on the box (yes Lost Winds is a downloadable game but you get the point) in the same way that the minority disagreeing with giving the award are ignored because you either give it or don't. I don't see what the difference is, other than that the reviewers are professionals who have been given their status due to their expertise in the area, rather than a bunch of random people who have signed up to a message board. You said yourself later in the post, the board effectively has no power. Are you going to go nazi on who you let sign up? Perhaps an IQ test during the sign up process, as well as a "Fanboyism" test, to ensure nobody comes along to diss MGS4 just because its a PS3 exclusive? They don't know what a "Gamers Seal Of Approval" warrants either. How do they know the process which the game has gone through to get this award rather than any other review score? Are you going to do a nationwide advertising campaign to raise awareness? Because otherwise your point is completely moot. In the same way that an IGN score is universal? "oh, there was 90% IGN on the front of Zelda, and theres a 90% IGN on the front of this. I liked Zelda, this must be good too". Conversely if you don't like that argument it works completely against you in the other way. "Gamers seal of approval? Where does this come from?" What makes anybody in the general public think that is any more valuable than an IGN score? See point 1. You're either going to have a load of idiots in the voting process, GameFAQs style, or you're going to be completely nazi about it and be a laughing stock for anyone outside the circle. It will be impossible to find a middle ground to that. It will also be completely impossible to avoid fanboyism and people ruining it for the sake of ruining it. This is a 4chan raid waiting to happen - whether its because its so easy to sign up, and they attack from the front, or because it's so difficult and they decide to ruin it out of spite from the back door. I don't see you getting to that stage at all. You will be laughed at. You won't get that first person including it. It will not explode onto every second box art like you predict. The publishers will see it and think; how silly. And proceed to continue with their boxart with the high IGN score that the game deserves, which as yet has had little effect on sales. I refer you again to Zack and Wiki, which IGN absolutely went nuts for prior to release. They had a "Buy Zack and Wiki" campaign. Yet the game still did not sell millions. In fact, I just checked my Zack and Wiki box and they haven't even got anything from that IGN campaign on the boxart. Do you not think if that would have had any chance of spurring sales it would have gone on the box? Thinking about it now, that says to me that the publishers don't even particularly see much sway on this thing at all; you're award is even more worthless than that. If Capcom (who published Z&W, correct?) didn't include any info about IGN's campaign, why would they pay attention to your approval? You just haven't thought this through at all. It will NOT work. If this works, and in the next 5 years this "seal of approval" appears on a boxart, I will personally Paypal you £100. If you went onto Dragons Den with this idea you'd be laughed at and told to go away. (I realise this isn't a profit making idea and that the DD comparison is really quite irrelevant but I think you understand what I mean when I say it). 1. Anyone would be allowed to join, but it would be a place for reasoned argument and debate. Comments of fanboyism would be ignored. 2. Gamer's Seal of Approval, not a final name but you get the idea. A mother walking past the box sees this, is she more likely to buy it? I think so. 3. With any percentage score. Casuals aren't going to distinguish between reviewers, they figure they are all the same. This would be simple and straightforward. If it has the seal, it is worth your money. 4. Say you nothing about the Oscars, never heard of it, but you see a movie that won best film. Are you going to question it, or are you going to accept the fact that somewhere this is regarded as best film of the year, and even if you disagree with them it's gotta be worth a watch since someone put their neck on the line to rate this movie. 5. Let them come. We have a cause, they'll be hurdles. At least we're trying. 6. We start with the small developers, the ones that need the help. If they get it included the big guys will look around and ask why they aren't getting it. We plan on building a community of gamers that will write e-mails and articles about how this is important to them, and that they regard the seal a important. 7. I've thought it through plenty. I know there's a chance it might fail, but i'm willing to try. The industry is hurting and I'd rather put my neck out there and give it a chance than me pessimistic and accept it is the way it is, insulting and condescending those who actually want to make a difference. Keep your money.
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