The smoking topic.

[Dyson]

My dad actually said that he wished I still smoked weed and gave up tobacco

 

 

 

Haha, my Dad says the same thing.

[The Bard]

Weed made your hair fall out?! Dewd. Srsly? Man. Well Weed's how I took up smoking in the first place; walking home at 3am from a mate's house after a hefty blaze, needing to inhale something to fit the routine. I started smoking weed more and more, thus needing the schedule-filler more and more... then I gave up weed! My dad actually said that he wished I still smoked weed and gave up tobacco - but personally I'd rather have my mind than my body.

 

Yeah man, I was already anaemic for a while due to ridiculous weight loss, and weed cuts off circulation to your scalp, hence hair loss. That's my theory anyway, maybe I should light up a blunt, see if it holds water, still got about an eighth lying around somewhere. Also: agreed, I don't want my reactions shot for the rest of my life.

 

Pot isn't addictive though, so how come you got hooked? Or did you just stuff it full o baccy? Personally I used to use this really slow burning pipe tobacco, mellow Virginia or something, which was cool, had a fruity flavour. I'm not the biggest fan of inhaling burning vegetation though, so I think I'll try something else...

[jayseven]

 

Yeah man, I was already anaemic for a while due to ridiculous weight loss, and weed cuts off circulation to your scalp, hence hair loss. That's my theory any, maybe I should light up a blunt, see if it holds water, still got about an eighth lying around somewhere. Also: agreed, I don't want my reactions shot for the rest of my life.

 

Pot isn't addictive though, so how come you got hooked? Or did you just stuff it full o baccy? Personally I used to use this really slow burning pipe tobacco, mellow Virginia or something, which was cool, had a fruity flavour. I'm not the biggest fan of inhaling burning vegetation though, so I think I'll try something else...

 

I wasn't physically addicted, of course. Just me and two pals got into the routine of smoking far too much money's worth, and far too often... I was smoking on the way to college, at break, on the way home, on the way to mate's house, at mate's house, on way home, just before bed... Used to roll two parts weed one part 'baccy for a "nice" spliff, or 3:1 for an "extra nice" one.

[Twozzok]

The Psychological addiction is a lot worse then the physical side.

[Daft]

I think its most important to stop kids from smoking. After that though, if you want to smoke, why the hell not!?

 

Even though I don't smoke I get invited out on the smoking breaks at Square (Sorry, I love saying I work at Square). I have an apple while everyone else smokes, its a bit surreal. Its awesome fun and a big part of socialization within the workplace.

 

In the great words of Radiohead, "you do it to yourself"!

[jayseven]

Well I'm a living example that it's really quite easy to stop smoking; the 'psychological' reasons for why it's tricky aren't necessarily 'addiction'; it's also the social behaviour you're used to, in a sense the "peer pressure" of still hanging out with your mates as they get stoned, or the 'habit' of smoking something at a certain time of the day, in the sense of getting out of the house or whatever.

 

I do think I miss feeling like I was being part of an 'underworld'; feeling more righteous than the law and being around others who felt the same.

[killthenet]

As I am a huge fan of the films of Jean Luc Godard, it seemed inevitable that I would take up smoking. It's a classy hobby to have, and I don't see myself smoking all of my life. Sure there are bad things about it, and sometimes my throat can feel like a bitch. Most of the time though it's a relaxing, sociable way to pass the time and is a good stress reliever in certain situations.

[ipaul]

so ipaul; should we move the debate towards drugs, in general? Because I can tell you people high on all sorts of drugs can show you a hell of a conversation.

 

Personally I think banning things is silly, that instead people should be so damn well educated (or does this lead to dangers of propagation? is that even a word? I do not know) that they choose to do as they please.

 

So what would the penalty be, in your eyes, for smoking? A year in prison? 30 days community service? Do you think we should outlaw suicide as well? :P Or people who refuse to have a bath and smell loads and are generally a nuisance to society? At what point do you distinguish between the 'good for society' and 'freedom'?

 

I am slightly exagerating certain points that I'm arguing, but I think in essence, there is truth in what I say.

 

I get what you are saying, but I still think smoking should be banned really. Perhaps this is due to my own failure of seeing how it brings any benefit to anyone. I can even see why people use drugs like LSD, but ciggarettes..... they just confuse me Stress reliever? Something to take away our social inhibitions? meh.... Obviously having said that, if LSD or heroine was as popular as smoking, it would be bad times all round but I just fail to see any benefit to smoking. Hopefully, we shouldn't have to ban it all, that people will just choose not to smoke and selling ciggarettes will become unprofitable and a thing of yesteryear. Just about everyone knows the dangers of smoking, I just think generally it is a stupid thing people do for idiotic social reasons. On the subject, social smokers are the worst, smoking because other people around you at the time are....just no. I just think smoking is a choice people could do without, though with enough restriction in other forms there might not be the need for a ban. The best thing for smoking would be for it to burn out naturally.

[rokhed00]

I could kill for a smoke.

[jayseven]

Smoking is a stress reliever; it does relax muscles. Mostly it relieves stress for us because our brains rely on the nicotine now. As for social inhibiter.. well it doesn't do anything in the same vein as alcohol, but as I say, it serves as a shared experience between one person and another immediately, and thus you don't feel so weird talking to a random person as you already know you have something in common.

 

But comparing tobacco to LSD is a bit barmy :P saying you can see why someone takes an illegal substance but not why they might do something perfectly legal either takes the argument out of the 'law' territory and into personal preferences/choices/opinions, or brings it towards a discussion of how silly or unnecessary laws are.

[Bren]

I only smoke the green stuff, and thats mixed with tobacco, so could say i smoke 1 - 2 ciggy's most days, and they're roached not filtered, so i get all the bad stuff :/

 

But i don't smoke em on their own anymore, if im drunk i always tend to have 1 or 2 when im hammered, and its funny talkin to other drunks, and you can actually hear them outside of a club when you smoke. Good times id say

 

And i know the risks, but it doesn't bother me, sorry.

 

And so do the other people smoking them, and being told day in day out is changing it, its working for lots, but still, if they don't want to quit yet, theirs no way of forcin em. So leave em to it, they'll give it up eventually.

[ipaul]

But comparing tobacco to LSD is a bit barmy :P saying you can see why someone takes an illegal substance but not why they might do something perfectly legal either takes the argument out of the 'law' territory and into personal preferences/choices/opinions, or brings it towards a discussion of how silly or unnecessary laws are.

 

That one. Yeah it is daft, but I'm just saying there would appear to be more immediate benefit (though eventually much MUCH more damage) for the individual. Just I can see why people are curious of drugs and try them, for the experience and so on, but ciggarettes confuse me as to why anyone would start doing it now. Surely people could find other methods of stress relief. Like I say, everyone knows the dangers, so what reason is there to try ciggarettes?

 

Fair enough if you have done it once, everyone tries it and I'm sure everyone hates it on the first go. If you have been smoking all your life since before the full dangers were brought to light then fair enough, but why start smoking now? Question to smokers who are addicted: If you could have it as if you had never smoked all your life, would you? (if you get what I mean...)

[Sheikah]

I really dislike smoking, and I actually feel quite sorry for smokers. I work part time in Tesco bakery and the guy who works with me nips out every hour or so to smoke, and he has a young daughter. He's a nice bloke and his child must be under 10, and he smokes that much. I think smoking will probably cap his life, there's no doubt smoking makes you unhealthy as well as posing risks like increased cancer susceptibility.

 

The best way to stop smokers is to stop people starting, as then there is no addiction to tackle, just idiot schoolchildren pressurising others into smoking.

 

I have no doubt in the future cigarettes will be banned completely...but that is a far cry from where we are now.

[jayseven]

But the thing is nicotine and alcohol are surely the two most well known 'recreational' drugs, in terms of knowledge of the good and the bad sides. Would you still say that you understand why people try other drugs if everyone knew all of the pros and all of the cons? Maybe you're just saying you can understand people taking LSD because you don't know about the 'dangers' of 'flashbacks', and the general effect of causing cracks in reality? Maybe you're saying you think it's ok because you acknowlege that drugs like LSD cause a more obvious diversion from the 'sober' perception of reality. Is damaging reality really worse than a drug that does such a minute alteration of brain-stuff?

 

As I said, physical harm is different to mental harm. Mental harm is invisable, others can only see what the injuries you have psychologically if you transcend into the physical world with them, socially or individually. Physical harm... well to me, we're all going to die eventually. I have other things going on physically which affect my day-to-day life as an individual and how I interact with society far more than anything smoking can cause. But with the psychological; well there's no way of telling if what you're imagining, if the reality you're perceiving is the same as everyone elses. It's scary... hence I'd prefer physical injury to mental.

 

I feel like I'm losing track of coherancy, so I'll stop now :P

[ipaul]

Maybe you're saying you think it's ok because you acknowlege that drugs like LSD cause a more obvious diversion from the 'sober' perception of reality. Is damaging reality really worse than a drug that does such a minute alteration of brain-stuff?

 

Ah yes, thats the point I was going for. You make a good argument but I feel I was maybe misinterpreted, I think in the long run ciggarettes are infinitely better than LSD/heroine or any other 'hard' (for want of a better word) drugs. Just simply, it's always more clear to me as to why people now start to do drugs rather than simply ciggarettes. Admittedly my drug knowledge is rather limited (though I do know of these 'flashbacks') but I generally accept that with they are much worse both for the individual and society than a regular packet of ciggarettes.

 

Edit -

But with the psychological; well there's no way of telling if what you're imagining, if the reality you're perceiving is the same as everyone elses. It's scary... hence I'd prefer physical injury to mental.

 

With you all the way on that one.

[Daniel]

as if this topic was revived today! this is day 1 of a smokefree dan!

[ipaul]

as if this topic was revived today! this is day 1 of a smokefree dan!

 

High five brother! xD Good luck, hope you manage to quit

[jayseven]

Aight, cool Just to let you know, my personal stance on drugs is that if you educate and control them enough, there's no reason why people can't have a laugh with them from time to time.

 

Ok, this thread has made me realise how much of a hippie I am, goddammit!

 

aight. Now, I think with the smoking ban, I have my own little annoyances - referring back to the train stations earlier. Y'see, stations had put up "no smokking" signs all over the place a few months before the ban came into place - yet they didn't mind if you had a fag discreetly - and by that, I mean out of the way of others -- at the very end of the platform, with nobody around you, open to the air.

 

The second the ban passes, even this is a crime, and this clearly touches a few nerves with me :P Y'see, to me a crime isn't something where you do wrong against what a piece of paper says, but where you actually do wrong against another individual, or society. There I was, standing over 25 metres away from the nearest person, breaking the law. But as soon as it became law, people overlook why it's a law and just see it as LAW that they must OBEY regardless of reason or ration or sense. What I was doing on that platform harmed absolutely nobody. The guy who came all the way over to me to tell me I was breaking the law did so of his own accord - he chose to waste moments of his life to tell me I was smoking and it was wrong, just as I chose to smoke and waste seconds and minutes of my life - except his wasting of life was deemed FINE because he spotted a law-breaker, while mine was deemed wrong, despite doing no harm to others, because of some stupid black-and-white law.

 

Ok, so this one occasion pissed me off greatly, and it;s clear that I have issues with how we, as a nation, follow laws blindly without actually questioning them against our own morality (unlike italy and australia, where you can smoke in a 'no smoking' area absolutely fine, if you're being a considerate smoker), and I guess the smoking debate is the freshest one to serve as an example to how we will behave completely differently depending on what our superiors say.

 

[/rant]

[Sheikah]

Trust me any ban is doing you a favour. The less chance you get to inhale toxic fumes the better for your own life. Laws aren't just passed to protect other people, they care about you too you know!

[The Bard]

I'm not entirely sure that someone on the verge of suicide is really going to pay much consideration to the law, unless it's regarding ways to avoid it.

 

Anyway, I think it's entirely a facade. Most people don't give two shits about you. They don't. The only reason most people would tell you to stop smoking is probably due to some overwhelming sense of self righteousness, and so if something does happen to you, they can shake their collective heads in mock pity. My dad is the heaviest smoker I know, he (in a somewhat ironic display of injustice) is perfectly healthy. Sure, I worry sometimes, but unless you're closely related to the person, I just think you should drop the pretense.

 

Non smokers die...Every. Day. Whoops, it slipped.

[Twozzok]

Trust me any ban is doing you a favour. The less chance you get to inhale toxic fumes the better for your own life. Laws aren't just passed to protect other people, they care about you too you know!

 

I for one don't want to live in a nanny state that doesn't let me choose what I can or cannot consume.

 

It's like saying they should ban video games because they keep some people indoors instead of getting outside and doing something.

 

I like having the freedom of choice of what I do with my body, as long as I'm not harming other people why should they care what I do to me?

[ipaul]

Anyway, I think it's entirely a facade. Most people don't give two shits about you. They don't. The only reason most people would tell you to stop smoking is probably due to some overwhelming sense of self righteousness, and so if something does happen to you, they can shake their collective heads in mock pity.

 

I think this is a very good point, I think it is even more apparent where obesity is concerned. People who say they are genuinely concerned about the health of society, where the matter is really about something else for the mockers, like oh say, snobbery. Admittedly I'm probably guilty of this as well sometimes, but I would think the vast majority of people also are. I'd like to think I genuinely care as much as someone can about the negative effects of smoking on society and I can't help but feel a smidge of sadness and anger when I see anyone light up.

[Sheikah]

My dad is the heaviest smoker I know, he (in a somewhat ironic display of injustice) is perfectly healthy.

 

Very, very unlikely, he may appear healthy but smoking damages the lungs progressively in every smoker, there's no way he would be as healthy as another version of himself who never smoked. He is much more likely to encounter problems as he gets older too.

 

At the end of the day you can go "nanny state", but whatever the motivation, the ban has been shown to increase the number quitting which means better health for them. Sod the reasoning behind people agreeing with the ban, if it results in people stopping it's no bad thing.

 

The problem with obesity is that it is much harder to control; you can't ban people from buying lots of food, then eating it. You could possibly ban cigarettes, or at least partially like they have done, and also increase the age (which they've done again).

 

But what annoys me the most is when people try to justify a bad thing as OK by relating to something else like obesity or alcohol. Yes alcohol can damage you too, but that doesn't mean in the interest of fairness we should either ban all of it or ban none of it at all. I think it's common sense to limit smoking - like I say, it all works out for the best in the end.

[Twozzok]

Ok, let's ban McDonalds and other similar fast food restaurants, lets ban video games. Actually, let's just follow a pre-determined day-to-day itinerary that the goverment gives us, because it's going to be good for us, and make not following it illegal.

[Sheikah]

That's quite funny, it's like you just took the last part of my post and ignored it completely. :p

 

What I said is to not try justify the banning down of cigarettes by saying we should ban everything else deemed unhealthy. It's like saying

 

"Men, we're currently being shot at by 3 groups of troops. Now we can negotiate with one group of troops and they'll probably stop firing, resulting in less casualties amongst our men."

 

"But sir, that's not fair, the other troops still get to fire at us!"

 

"Well in that case, we'll not call off that one group! If all 3 cannot be stopped at once, in the interest of fairness, let all 3 carry on!"

 

It seems as if smokers try to justify carrying on with a bad habit by highlighting that other bad habbits are allowed. If life-endangering habbits can go, let them. I realise other things like McDonalds still are allowed, and I believe food like that will change in time too. But at the moment change is directed at cigarettes.

 

And why should people concern theirselves with other people's health? Ok, if you don't believe people care about others, at least realise that smoking affects loved ones (if you don't smoke around them, it could well affect them still if you get an illness).