High Definition War

[AshMat]

Choze supporting Blu, who woulda thought it?

[Will]

Personally I hope Blu-Ray wins. The only reason being that my HD-DVD player (360) is far too noisy to watch a film on and my Blu-Ray player (PS3) is completely silent and most suitable for films. I'm not going to buy another player so for me that will work out best.

 

The big problem with the whole thing is that they didn't come to an arrangement before release and get one format out there. People didn't just upgrade to DVD because it was better quality - they upgraded because they had to due to everything being on DVD and not much being on video. With Blu-Ray/HD-DVD everyone still has to release everything on DVD while the two HD formats battle it out for a winner. Once this happens I'd say the transition to HD players and movies will start moving along much faster.

[Jasper]

Its just a better product as well which the early adopters prefer. Blu Ray also has stuff like more space, scratch resistance, variety of players being made by every company outside of Toshiba. With hddvd you only really have Toshiba as your choice and a spec thats below Blu ray.

 

It also helps that the PS3 is the best HD player on the market by far. It just works effortlessly and gives the best Picture. Not to mention future compatible.

 

You know, all your arguments are so easy to take down. "It's just a better product" - keep youyr personal taste on the side. "Blu-Ray has stuff like more space, scratch resistance" - more space, yes, if you're talking data, not if you're talking movie. The compression is better on HD DVD. "A spec below Blu Ray" - honestly, again that's your opinion. The specs are equally good, movies run fine on it. That the PS3 is the most powerfull player out there, much more powerfull than any HD DVD player except Xbox, is not a valid argument. "It also helps that the PS3 is the best HD player on the market by far." - Again, that's you personal opiinion. It's not the best HD Player, because it's not actually an HD player. If you take all the other functionality out of the PS3, then it's just another player. It's dishonnest saying thatBluRay wins because of the PS3 being the best player. "It just works effortlessly and gives the best Picture. " - I think that, if I read this thread and some arguments posted, that Blu-Ray and HD DVD give the same quality picture and sound. So all your 'just better' arguments are worthless now.

 

Don't twist my words - I'm only speaking from the marketing side. And for marketing, Blu-Ray has huge advantages.

 

I personally think that this war will be won by the choice that Apple makes. Call me a fanboy, but all those USB ports you're using wouldn't be there if Apple didn't put them on their iMacs. All those iPods out there - even the fake ones - wouldn't have been a huge market like it is now without Apple. And the computer industry as a whole wouldn't have been anything without Apple's early computers and GUI. Don't forget, Bill Gates used Macs as inspiration (wich isn't an accusation, I don't want to start that again, but every gets influenced and inspired by what happens around them - watch 'Pirates of Silicon Valley' for more background on that). So if Apple decides to go only for Blu-Ray, than it's HD DVD that's in trouble. I know Apple is in the Blu-Ray alliance, but that doesn't mean they'll have to choose.

[RoadKill]

I personally think that this war will be won by the choice that Apple makes. Call me a fanboy, but all those USB ports you're using wouldn't be there if Apple didn't put them on their iMacs.

 

USB was initially an Intel standard, and if Apple had their way, you'd be seeing a lot more FireWire; which to be honest I support for anything that requires the speed, but for everyday low speed devices, USB is cheaper and perfectly acceptable.

[Guest Jordan]

USB was initially an Intel standard, and if Apple had their way, you'd be seeing a lot more FireWire; which to be honest I support for anything that requires the speed, but for everyday low speed devices, USB is cheaper and perfectly acceptable.

 

Thats actually true facts.

Apple love Firewire... shame basically nothing outside cameras and old MP3 players use it.

 

Bring on USB 3.0...

[Jasper]

USB was initially an Intel standard, and if Apple had their way, you'd be seeing a lot more FireWire; which to be honest I support for anything that requires the speed, but for everyday low speed devices, USB is cheaper and perfectly acceptable.

 

Apple introduced USB to the iMacs, and from there it's popularity grew. Apple would have had their way nif they didn't charge that much, wich was the downfall of FireWire. Apple's own properties never really take off because of High pricing.

 

But that's a little off topic, so let's go back to HD DVD vs. Blu Ray.

[RoadKill]

FireWire is more expensive to implement from a technical standpoint, not just a marketing standpoint, it is a superior standard in all respects, but it's more than you need for most devices, hence cheap USB.

[Jasper]

Nope. It's licensing cost was way to high. Apple asked $1.50 per port, while USB only asked for a licensing fee of 25 cents.

 

And, no offense, but the 'too much for most devices' is bullshit. Why is USB 3 going to be that fast, than? I doubt they won't adopt the USB 3 standard just because most mice don't need the speed.

 

But back on topic.

[RoadKill]

Nope. It's licensing cost was way to high. Apple asked $1.50 per port, while USB only asked for a licensing fee of 25 cents.

 

And, no offense, but the 'too much for most devices' is bullshit. Why is USB 3 going to be that fast, than? I doubt they won't adopt the USB 3 standard just because most mice don't need the speed.

 

But back on topic.

 

Backwards compatibility; mice still use the lowest signalling speed, same with keyboards. However devices such as video cameras and external hard drives will want all the extra speed. You can put the highest end chipset you want in the host machine, but still run USB low speed devices on that very bus.

 

I'm not contesting the royalty charges though (other than your incorrect pricing):-

 

"the royalty which Apple Inc. and other patent holders have initially demanded from users of FireWire (US$0.25 per end-user system) and the more expensive hardware needed to implement it (US$1–$2) has prevented FireWire from displacing USB in low-end mass-market computer peripherals, where cost of product is a major constraint." citation: teener.com

 

"One reason USB supplanted Firewire, and became far more widespread, is cost; firewire is considerably more expensive to implement, producing more expensive hardware."

 

A reason for USB3's creation, beyond bandwidth concerns, is power and CPU resource saving:

 

"Since all communication is initiated by a USB host, the host must periodically poll all those USB devices that can provide data at unexpected intervals, such as network cards and keyboards. This consumes unnecessary resources when the devices are idle. These issues are being addressed by the forthcoming USB 3.0 specification..."

 

Which is something that as far as I'm aware, FireWire does already because as far as I'm aware, each FireWire device is more intelligent than a USB device controller

[Jasper]

Yeha okay... But honestly, this is really getting off topic now. USB has barely anything to do with HD video formats, now does it?

 

I just said that chances are that the market will mimic Apple's move. Don't forget that laptops are all mimicking Apple's original PowerBook laptops. And that Apple's iMac is being copied all over the place (I'm looking at you, Dell). And that the iBook was the first laptop to come with WiFi, is an all-copied fact nowadays. Apple is a trendsetter (again i'm not starting the discussion, it's just fact - Apple has such a legacy, that every other company follows to stay with the front-end).

[Emasher]

Yeha okay... But honestly, this is really getting off topic now. USB has barely anything to do with HD video formats, now does it?

 

I just said that chances are that the market will mimic Apple's move. Don't forget that laptops are all mimicking Apple's original PowerBook laptops. And that Apple's iMac is being copied all over the place (I'm looking at you, Dell). And that the iBook was the first laptop to come with WiFi, is an all-copied fact nowadays. Apple is a trendsetter (again i'm not starting the discussion, it's just fact - Apple has such a legacy, that every other company follows to stay with the front-end).

 

Don't forget those new phones that look almost exactly like iPhones.

 

I thought Apple was involved with both formats.

[RoadKill]

Yeha okay... But honestly, this is really getting off topic now. USB has barely anything to do with HD video formats, now does it?

 

I just said that chances are that the market will mimic Apple's move. Don't forget that laptops are all mimicking Apple's original PowerBook laptops. And that Apple's iMac is being copied all over the place (I'm looking at you, Dell). And that the iBook was the first laptop to come with WiFi, is an all-copied fact nowadays. Apple is a trendsetter (again i'm not starting the discussion, it's just fact - Apple has such a legacy, that every other company follows to stay with the front-end).

 

No contesting that, Apple is fucking cool, and companies want to emulate their success.

 

I do think that if Apple start shipping blu-ray drives with their machines it will start tipping it further in blu-ray's favour by quite a lot - especially seeing as Apple Macs are associated with video editing and production anyway.

[fex]

No contesting that, Apple is fucking cool, and companies want to emulate their success.

 

I do think that if Apple start shipping blu-ray drives with their machines it will start tipping it further in blu-ray's favour by quite a lot - especially seeing as Apple Macs are associated with video editing and production anyway.

 

You nailed it, a large proportion of the media industry use Mac's and if apple start placing Blu-ray drives in their machines then alot of 'indie' film makers will go blu, which will push the format futher.

 

 

THE BIGGEST BLOW FOR HD-DVD

 

Warner Bro's have just annouced they are backing Blu-ray. I think that pretty much confirms it that Blu-ray is the next thing to succeed DVD. I can't see HD-DVD pulling any ground back, which is unfortunate.

 

Proof

[Emasher]

Just heard about WB, No way HD-DVD will win now.

[Caris]

Well, i don't agree with what Jordan and Nintenchirs say.

 

WB (Warner Bros) are going to take a side in early 08, they don't want to be neutral anymore. If they go Blu, Blu-ray will have nearly 75% of all the movie companys on there side which means that HD-DVD will be pretty much dead. If they go Red it's gonna be pretty much a stalemate again. Most people are saying WB are waiting to see what the sales are like over the Holiday Season then there gonna make there move, there also saying that it will more likely be Blu.

 

He was right!

 

This is amazing new's for Blu-ray and the PS3.

 

There's rumors floating about that Apple will be including blu-ray players in there computers at Macworld this month. It would be the icing on the cake if that happened.

[Daft]

At the moment I just want one of the formats to keel over and die so I can commit. Looks like its going BluRay so I may pick up a PS3 by the end of the year.

[fex]

I now feel I could happily spend £300 on a PS3 and buy Blu-ray movies risk free now.

 

Sad day for HD-DVD, great day for consumers (apart from those who bought into HD-DVD).

 

 

R.I.P HD-DVD

[DCK]

Damn, that sucks. HD DVD was the more sensible format.

 

Meh, can't say it really matters. Hope the Bluray disk prices go down though. And I hope Sony won't be such a bitch about this (although they probably will be).

[Hero-of-Time]

Great news for movie lovers like myself who have been sitting on the fence, time to start buying me some Blu-Ray.

[fex]

I will hate buying my PS3 and first few blu-ray movies, funding sony's awful recent reputation. I'm sure time will pass, and when im watching Die Hard, 300 and planet earth in HD then all will be forgotten.

[Mr_Odwin]

This is on the front page of doom9; it sums up how I feel:

 

Buying into any format that could reliably prevent you from ever making a backup copy goes against everything this site has ever stood for - so if you care at all for what you can do with movies you pay good money for, you should stay away from Blu-ray just as any music buyer should stay away from DRM infected online music. And just so that it is said again: Blu-ray champion Sony has single-handedly killed RipIt4Me, is behind ArCCoS, has infected millions of PCs with a rootkit and has been peddling proprietary formats over standards for decades (MiniDisc, ATRAC, MemoryStick and UMD are just a few examples leading up to Blu-ray).

[Choze]

Get real there's a difference between backup and pirating. 99% of dvd movie backups arent really backups. Also its not like Blu ray will be copy free for long

 

 

The people saying HDDVd is going to die dont understand that HDDVD will die when Toshiba decide. hddvd could have 1% of sales but its up to toshiba when to pull it.

[Mr_Odwin]

Get real there's a difference between backup and pirating. 99% of dvd movie backups arent really backups. Also its not like Blu ray will be copy free for long

 

You know more than doom9 about BD copy protection? Interesting.

[Choze]

You know, all your arguments are so easy to take down. "It's just a better product" - keep youyr personal taste on the side. "Blu-Ray has stuff like more space, scratch resistance" - more space, yes, if you're talking data, not if you're talking movie.

 

Blu ray is also a data disk. Extra's on HDDVD are in SD instead of HD often because of lack of space. Its cheaper for smaller companies to use single layer disks instead of double. HDDVD is ill equiped here. Way to go ignoring scratch resistance. Its an extremely nice feature.

 

The compression is better on HD DVD.

 

No its the same.

 

"A spec below Blu Ray" - honestly, again that's your opinion. The specs are equally good, movies run fine on it.

 

I think the specs speak for themselves. :awesome:

 

That the PS3 is the most powerfull player out there, much more powerfull than any HD DVD player except Xbox, is not a valid argument. "It also helps that the PS3 is the best HD player on the market by far." - Again, that's you personal opiinion. It's not the best HD Player, because it's not actually an HD player. If you take all the other functionality out of the PS3, then it's just another player.

 

Well you certainly cant discredit the PS3. One of the main reasons for buying into HD is quality. Blu ray wins on that front and PS3 wins on the player front. It even easily bests Pioneer's £1000 effort.

 

It's dishonnest saying thatBluRay wins because of the PS3 being the best player. "It just works effortlessly and gives the best Picture. " - I think that, if I read this thread and some arguments posted, that Blu-Ray and HD DVD give the same quality picture and sound. So all your 'just better' arguments are worthless now.

 

On paper the movies should be fairly similar but when you take into account the movies and players its a different story and one where PS3 will give you the best result.

 

Don't twist my words - I'm only speaking from the marketing side. And for marketing, Blu-Ray has huge advantages.

 

It does, it has most of the industry behind it and a better product to sell.

 

I personally think that this war will be won by the choice that Apple makes.

 

Not really. But they are Blu ray if you needed to know.

 

Call me a fanboy, but all those USB ports you're using wouldn't be there if Apple didn't put them on their iMacs. All those iPods out there - even the fake ones - wouldn't have been a huge market like it is now without Apple. And the computer industry as a whole wouldn't have been anything without Apple's early computers and GUI. Don't forget, Bill Gates used Macs as inspiration (wich isn't an accusation, I don't want to start that again, but every gets influenced and inspired by what happens around them - watch 'Pirates of Silicon Valley' for more background on that). So if Apple decides to go only for Blu-Ray, than it's HD DVD that's in trouble. I know Apple is in the Blu-Ray alliance, but that doesn't mean they'll have to choose.

 

Apple are a great company and deserve many props. I salute them. But you know where they are going. Lets not act surprised when the anouncements come.

 

You know more than doom9 about BD copy protection? Interesting.

 

IF history has taught us anything. Its that everything can be backed up

[fex]

The people saying HDDVd is going to die dont understand that HDDVD will die when Toshiba decide. hddvd could have 1% of sales but its up to toshiba when to pull it.

 

If HD-DVD ever had 1% of sales I would be considered dead whether toshiba pull it or not