High Definition War

[RoadKill]

Some of the things Choze says are fair enough, some of them make my head hurt, and show lack of research

[Marshmellow]

So I am thinking of picking up Planet Earth in HD.

 

I have both a PS3 and the 360 HD DVD Drive. Now should I pick it up on HD DVD or Blu-Ray? Please back up your answer with good, solid facts.

 

Atm I'm thinking HD DVD, because in the 10 or so movies I've watched HD DVD audio > Blu-Ray audio.

[Jasper]

Blu ray is also a data disk. Extra's on HDDVD are in SD instead of HD often because of lack of space. Its cheaper for smaller companies to use single layer disks instead of double. HDDVD is ill equiped here. Way to go ignoring scratch resistance. Its an extremely nice feature.

 

I honestly don't think that Toshiba would release HD DVD if it isn't the slightest scratch resistant.

 

I think the specs speak for themselves. :awesome:

 

The specs are equal! They both output HD visual and audio, so the soecs ARE the same.

 

Well you certainly cant discredit the PS3. One of the main reasons for buying into HD is quality. Blu ray wins on that front and PS3 wins on the player front. It even easily bests Pioneer's £1000 effort.

 

It's not because it's a PS3 that all of a sudden your movies will be 2140p, you will have the same quality of movie like on any Blu-Ray player. The PS3 is an dishonnest exaloke because the PS3 can do loads of other things, too. You could say the Xbox 360 can do all that too, and still people discredit the 360 anyways.

 

On paper the movies should be fairly similar but when you take into account the movies and players its a different story and one where PS3 will give you the best result.

 

Again, if mt movie runs in 1080p at 60 fps with Dolby Digital Audio, than it can't be better on PS3 than it is on any standalone player.

 

It does, it has most of the industry behind it and a better product to sell.

 

That's not marketing. Marketing means getting your name out there, being known, and being known for what you do. BluRay is better marketed as an HD format than HD DVD. Again, you have reduced marketing to something it totally isn't is. Marketing isn't getting as much companies behind you - that's just strategy. Marketing is getting people to know your product and love it. Maybe a MacBook isn't so good of a computer at all, but Apple's marketing still makes a big fuzz around it and people want it. That's marketing.

 

Not really. But they are Blu ray if you needed to know.

 

I know that, but that doesn't mean they'll only support it. There are some rumors that Apple is working on a hybrid drive for it's computers, to give that possibility to professionals. I would understand why Apple would want to stay clear of choice.

 

Apple are a great company and deserve many props. I salute them. But you know where they are going. Lets not act surprised when the anouncements come.

 

I'm not going to act surprised, and yes, Apple is probably supporting your overloved Blu-Ray format, but if Hybrid drives are announced, I will personally see to it that you het laughed in the face. Deal?

 

But the cards are officialy dealed. Toshiba is in huge trouble and is looking into how it can ever defeat Blu-Ray if even it's major contributor, Warner,has given up on them. Toshiba cancelled their HD DVD conference on sunday and seems very sad about Warner leaving the game.

 

The war, my friends, is almost over.

[Domstercool]

Official statement: Warner Bros to back Blu-ray DVD format exclusively

 

CES HD DVD Event canceled due to Warner announcement

 

HD-DVD isn't going to overtake. It's getting weaker as the months go by.

 

Space seems to be a problem too. As the Transformer directed even stated, hell the HD-DVD didn't have a enough space for true HD-Audio. That 20GB extra really does come in handy. At the moment in time on the market, HD-DVD dual layers are 30GB and Blu-Rays are 50GB.

 

Just face it, especially all those Sony hates. The best format is going to win and all it needs is the time to hurry up. HD-DVD is going to the grave.

[fex]

Hopefully the price of Blu-ray players will continue to fall even though the competition is getting weaker. And the prices of 1080p HDTV's are still stupidly high, definitely not mass market.

 

 

Oh, BTW did that OLED television get released in japan in december?

[That Guy]

This Warner announcement has made me extremely happy to have bought a PS3 now. I was reading more and more about HD DVD going down the pan and though now was the time to stop buying those titles that are on both Blu Ray and HD DVD for my HD DVD 360 drive.

 

I have 10 HD DVD films so it'll be annoying if eventually I have nothing to play them on. Hopefully the 360 will be around for a few years yet.

 

Now I own both I'm just glad that one is being chosen. I just wish they'd give up on HD DVD altogether now so we can all just get on with buying Blu Ray.

[Choze]

Its always been a losing affair for Toshiba. Inferior format, lack of support. Its not easy to market an inferior product. If people are going to spend so much on a player ofcourse they would want to spend abit extra and get a bigger jump.

 

Warner even cite the PS3 as a reason. Which is the best player. No fuss using it and the fact its the highest qality does more justice to the format. Then we have the content companies. More content for Blu ray. Pc users value space over everything hence Blu ray.

[Jasper]

The war is over.

 

Let's just hope Dreamworks can manage to get out of their exclusivity deal, or they'll be in one messy situation.

[DCK]

Just face it, especially all those Sony hates. The best format is going to win and all it needs is the time to hurry up. HD-DVD is going to the grave.

To be frank, HD DVD's triple layer would solve all these issues and be compatible with all the old players (opposed to, apparently, Bluray's old players' firmware updates), whilst being a cheaper medium, a more logical continuation of the DVD standard, and having cheaper players. All advantages BD has is the disk space (the scratch protection is more than fine on HD DVD) and that has been resolved. I feel the early adopters, the HD purists, have been overwhelmed with the sheer disc size of the Bluray disc, when it isn't that advantageous at all, and HD DVD has more advantages over Bluray.

 

Personally, as a computer science student, I think that Bluray has too much of a degree of propietariness (not a word). Sony is such a bitch about their formats, and I hate to see them winning and making their strategy of being a total ass about their formats pay off. Bluray is a great standard, but HD DVD is more sensible, and would've been better.

 

In retrospect, I'm dissappointed that Microsoft didn't postpone the 360 launch by about six months and included a HD DVD player in it (as well as implementing 65 nm hardware and DirectX 10), because the Playstation 3 has made Bluray win, despite horrible sales as a video game console. The 360 would've easily added another 10 million HD DVD players to the tally, despite being later and possibly more expensive.

[Jasper]

But here's the good news: in the next generation of consoles, Nintendo will probably go for HD DVD. It's made by Toshiba, and nobody's using it, so there's little chance of piracy.

 

And DCK, yes - HD DVD beats Blu-Rays ass anytime. The only problem is, Blu-Ray has got a name. He's like the weak, but cool kid in the neughbourhood. He can't defeat the big guy, but he's smart enough to convince everyone to protect him.

 

In these days it's witts, not power that wins. Another obvious example: Apple. Apple is winning market share not because of powerfull computers, but because of smart marketing.

 

Marketing makes or breaks your product, and the marketing for HD DVD is broken.

[DCK]

Is there much marketing though? The way I see it's just a lot of people staring blind at the Bluray's capacity whilst forgetting the things that really matter.

[AshMat]

Well 'grats to blu-ray. The winner's been chozen now (eh, eh, get it?)

[Guest Jordan]

That joke was so bad i almost died inside.

[Caris]

Is there much marketing though? The way I see it's just a lot of people staring blind at the Bluray's capacity whilst forgetting the things that really matter.

 

Yeah like how much Sony suck and everything.

[DCK]

Yeah like how much Sony suck and everything.

Of course, when you can't think of a proper argument, you can always blame it on the fanboys.

 

Truth is HD DVD is pioneer in new compression technologies like H.264 and Dolby TrueHD, and is a cheaper medium. There's a lot of innovation in the format, instead of the mere promises of Bluray, like the 200 GB BD-ROM. HD DVD players are also more easily compatible with DVD (very important for the average consumer) and cheaper in general.

 

About Sony, regardless what my opinion is about Sony Computer Entertainment, I don't like their general approach of using their fame to force consumers to use their formats. They have a way of exploiting the consumer more than any other electronics company out there.

 

Lastly, I think it's a bad idea to have an 'owner' of a format. Bluray has a very strong consortium physically owning it, this is only true to a lesser extent for HD DVD, which is a more open format.

 

There is truly no advantage BD has over HD DVD except for single layer storage capacity, and maybe the high-quality scratch protection that only matters when you go snowboarding with it.

[Jasper]

Is there much marketing though? The way I see it's just a lot of people staring blind at the Bluray's capacity whilst forgetting the things that really matter.

 

Sony knows what they should let people stare at. That's why the front of their players look much better than their back.

 

That's marketing, pals. Sony is great at it (except playstations PR team, wich should be sacked and the people that sacked the people who were sacked should be sacked, too). They know how to market something. THey know the attractive name, and they know how to name their disadvantages actual advantages. The focus on capacity is what Sony made important back in the DVD era, so people are assuming that more capacity is better...

[Caris]

Of course, when you can't think of a proper argument, you can always blame it on the fanboys.

 

Truth is HD DVD is pioneer in new compression technologies like H.264 and Dolby TrueHD, and is a cheaper medium. There's a lot of innovation in the format, instead of the mere promises of Bluray, like the 200 GB BD-ROM. HD DVD players are also more easily compatible with DVD (very important for the average consumer) and cheaper in general.

 

About Sony, regardless what my opinion is about Sony Computer Entertainment, I don't like their general approach of using their fame to force consumers to use their formats. They have a way of exploiting the consumer more than any other electronics company out there.

 

Lastly, I think it's a bad idea to have an 'owner' of a format. Bluray has a very strong consortium physically owning it, this is only true to a lesser extent for HD DVD, which is a more open format.

 

There is truly no advantage BD has over HD DVD except for single layer storage capacity, and maybe the high-quality scratch protection that only matters when you go snowboarding with it.

 

I don't have one that's why. There both so similar i would never notice the difference. All i want to do is to go the a shop, buy a disk and watch it. I'm not arsed about copying it or anything like that. I wasn't bothered what format won i just wanted one to do it soon. I guess if i had to pick it would be blu-ray just so it helps the PS3 which i think it a underrated console.

[fex]

PS3 which i think it a underrated console.

 

Underrated? Only if it had some good exclusive games, games didn't cost around £5 extra, and third party games came out on the same day as the 360's version. Then I would call it underrated.

 

I do expect the sales of PS3's to pick up when people realise it's a real attractive price point for a blu-ray player / media hub

[Emasher]

(except playstations PR team, wich should be sacked and the people that sacked the people who were sacked should be sacked, too)

 

They guy responsible already quit.

[Choze]

Of course, when you can't think of a proper argument, you can always blame it on the fanboys.

 

Quite true. Liek the comment you made below.

 

Truth is HD DVD is pioneer in new compression technologies like H.264 and Dolby TrueHD, and is a cheaper medium. There's a lot of innovation in the format, instead of the mere promises of Bluray, like the 200 GB BD-ROM. HD DVD players are also more easily compatible with DVD (very important for the average consumer) and cheaper in general.

 

Blu Ray is the same as HDDVD in those respects. The compression / codecs are the same. Dolby ture HD is a stdard adopted by both. However Blu ray has more space for loseless as well.

 

About Sony, regardless what my opinion is about Sony Computer Entertainment, I don't like their general approach of using their fame to force consumers to use their formats. They have a way of exploiting the consumer more than any other electronics company out there.

 

Not really, they have learnt their lessons and are now one of the most open companies out there. Moreso than Apple, MS, Nintendo, Toshiba etc. Big turnaround here from a stubborn company.

 

Lastly, I think it's a bad idea to have an 'owner' of a format. Bluray has a very strong consortium physically owning it, this is only true to a lesser extent for HD DVD, which is a more open format.

 

HDDVD only has Toshiba pretty much on the hardware side.

 

There is truly no advantage BD has over HD DVD except for single layer storage capacity, and maybe the high-quality scratch protection that only matters when you go snowboarding with it.

 

You cant downplay those points and say you are being impartial. If those arent important then what does HDDVD have? Having better interactive feature for only 3 months isnt going to sway anyone.

 

Here is a diagram of current movie market conditions:

 

 

New Line have also dropped HDDVD

 

http://www.dvdtown.com/news/new-line-drops-hd-dvd-as-well/5066

[Jasper]

They guy responsible already quit.

 

It was a refernces to what you all should consider the best part of your culture: Monthy Python. Thank you for ruining the joke, though. :wink:

 

And here's something to back up my all-follow-Apple argument.

[AshMat]

If everyone copies the Apple style it will get stale, quicker than it would've done originally.

[Jasper]

If everyone copies the Apple style it will get stale, quicker than it would've done originally.

 

I quote:

 

Good artists copy, great artists steal.

 

~Pablo Picasso

 

Nobody ever wondered why Apple is so succesfull right now? iPhone? That just a twenty-year old touch technology with a shiny outside. iMac? It's a laptop, but in desktop model.

 

But companies copying Apple forgot one thing: Apple keeps innovating. Apple knew about a year ago that their original Apple White - shiny white - was going to get stale. Everything was glossy white. So the Apple designer stayed ahead of the competition and launched Matte Steel (how do they call it again?).

 

Or the companies are going to find their own ways, or they stay behind.

 

I know it's completely off-topic, but let me give this last quote as a great way of seeing how Apple works:

 

I want you to build a computer with only a single visible screw!

 

~Not literally, but what he sort-of said, Steve Jobs

 

Now that's the Steve we're talking about. I do advice everyone to see the movie 'Pirates of Silicon Valley'. Great performances, wonderfull story and quite exciting to see. It's when seeing that that you will feel how great the masterminds of Steve Jobs and Bill Gates (yes, he's great at convincing people!) are.

[Caris]

Underrated? Only if it had some good exclusive games, games didn't cost around £5 extra, and third party games came out on the same day as the 360's version. Then I would call it underrated.

 

I do expect the sales of PS3's to pick up when people realise it's a real attractive price point for a blu-ray player / media hub

 

Jesus don't start the PS3 has no exclusive games argument, you will just loose.

[DCK]

Quite true. Liek the comment you made below.

Yeah, my arguments were obviously prejudiced and not well thought out

Blu Ray is the same as HDDVD in those respects. The compression / codecs are the same. Dolby ture HD is a stdard adopted by both. However Blu ray has more space for loseless as well.

I know it's the same. HD DVD was first in adopting the new standards. That's what 'pioneer' means. It made TrueHD mandatory. Also, the disk space argument does not hold any more.

Not really, they have learnt their lessons and are now one of the most open companies out there. Moreso than Apple, MS, Nintendo, Toshiba etc. Big turnaround here from a stubborn company.

Can you give me any evidence for this? PSN is open, true, but that's far from being an open company, that's just economical.

HDDVD only has Toshiba pretty much on the hardware side.

How is that a reaction to me? It only supports the fact that HD DVD isn't pushed as much by companies, which often is a good thing.

You cant downplay those points and say you are being impartial. If those arent important then what does HDDVD have? Having better interactive feature for only 3 months isnt going to sway anyone.

My interpretation of the facts is that HD DVD, as a medium, is better. But that's not because I hate Sony, which is what C-Dawg meant.