Muhammad Teddy Bear

[Haden]

Unfortunately with such things like the Bible, probably the Koran too...the fact that it cannot be taken too literally means you get people taking home 'their own message' from the texts, which is no doubt what extremists have done. That, and adding their own spin to it. I'm not saying the creator's of religions intended for such views to be held, but at the heart of extremists views is the very thought that they are acting under the name of 'god'.

 

My point? I just think that atheist extremist bombers would be hard to come by since it really does appear that the only way someone would do something so absolutely mental as explode themselves is if they truly believed this would guarantee them a place in 'paradise'.

 

But really most of my dislike for religion is just that it's believed even though most of it is nonsenscial, and would you find anything else in life so contrived you'd deem it to be merely a 'story' or a work of fiction. Something to think about. : peace:

 

Athiest extreme bombers maybe not. Atheist killers? Yes and by that I mean killers whose motive is athiesm above any religion the soviet union and china is a prime example of this. To be fair at least they were equality based they killed christians muslims and confucanism followers. I think in the bible their is a clear message and it isnt followed by most people even the diciples stuggled at times.

 

I understand were you are coming from and have verdged towards being an atheist at many points in my life even though the fish may find taht hard to believe :p but I think christanity illumantes the human condition like nothing else.

 

Nope, not at all, I was brought up as a Christian, but I avoid ignorance and read up on things I'm not familiar with.

 

Btw, great posts by the pair of you.

 

 

Ah good news this is the way to go study everything and make your own mind up. Are you a christian still or not?

 

I ask you these questions about islam because frankly all we here is this divide of extreme and normal muslims that the press and governments feeds us. And people say these things but dont reference the koran at all so I want someone who has read it to make these claims and back them up.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

 

Ah good news this is the way to go study everything and make your own mind up. Are you a christian still or not?

 

 

Agreed! No, I won't consider myself a Christian since I stopped going to church since when I was about 12 lol, but I do believe in God...Just not in a religious way if you can understand. I could believe that this world/universe was a creation formed from a thinking mind.

[Haden]

Agreed! No, I won't consider myself a Christian since I stopped going to church since when I was about 12 lol, but I do believe in God...Just not in a religious way if you can understand. I could believe that this world/universe was a creation formed from a thinking mind.

 

Ah ok do you have msn PM me your msn if you do would be nice to talk to you outside this forum topic.

[The fish]

Athiest extreme bombers maybe not. Atheist killers? Yes and by that I mean killers whose motive is athiesm above any religion the soviet union and china is a prime example of this.

 

A couple of things - most of the things that were done in China, Cambodia, and the USSR were not done in the name of atheism, just by people who happened to be atheists. The point of the religious killings, well, it's most likely that they were done to people who could not be converted to atheism (a nasty phrase, by the way) - this was probably due to the necessity of installing atheist views into people in order to make them look for something else to guide them (these are mainly poorly educated peasants, remember), and the murderers paymasters could provide this new icon - the country, and it's leader.

[Sheikah]

What about for king and country? Japanese society on a how is not really religious, yet Japanese Kamikaze bombers were all too willing to kill themselves in service of their country during WWII...This is where Haden's point shines through; there would still be war without religion. The mere fact that the human race is divided into so many countries is a form of 'pack' mentality.

 

With that one example, I doubt much today if you go to Japan you'd find people willing to do that, and it would surprise me if back in WWII that Japan had already become secular ahead of pretty much the rest of the world. Also the number of people doing this for the sake of a god is far higher than people doing it for anyone else, so I definitely wouldn't say his point 'shines through'.

 

I'm not saying there wouldn't be war without religion, but there would be less pointless war (people fighting because they think some mythical being disapproves of something). Moreover, many wars don't really actually affect me, but it seems extremists acting in the name of 'god' will actually bring their argument to people who have nothing to do with any war which is particularly disgusting.

 

Put it like this, it would take something very special for Muslim extremists to blow up the twin towers had they been brought up in a secular household and had no influence/little to sway them in the way of God. They may be radicals and not reflective of Islam, but Islam is still the building block and without it they couldn't have become extremists. Humans would still fight? Let them. At least with religion gone it would be one less thing to fight about, and any future fights probably wouldn't be randomly directed against innocent people doing nothing more than working in their job or travelling on the tube, rather directed at whatever country they have a problem with, like the good old days.

[Haden]

A couple of things - most of the things that were done in China, Cambodia, and the USSR were not done in the name of atheism, just by people who happened to be atheists. The point of the religious killings, well, it's most likely that they were done to people who could not be converted to atheism (a nasty phrase, by the way) - this was probably due to the necessity of installing atheist views into people in order to make them look for something else to guide them (these are mainly poorly educated peasants, remember), and the murderers paymasters could provide this new icon - the country, and it's leader.

 

Hmm I dont understand your point. You say it wasnt done in the name of atheism just by people who happened to be athiests. But then you go on to admit that athiesm was the dominant view that was being installed into people. They happened to be athiests becuase if they were the ones in power with the agenda and stuff like this happened.

 

http://www.ibiblio.org/expo/soviet.exhibit/anti_rel.html

[Haver]

Fundamentalist Islam and Islamism (often one and the same) are particularly violent, murderous, misogynistic, homophobic and irrational forms of religious extremism.

 

This is what happens when you live by holy books: teachers in jail over teddy bears and cartoonists and authors and filmmakers dead or threatened with death.

 

Hitch link:

[The fish]

Hmm I dont understand your point. You say it wasnt done in the name of atheism just by people who happened to be athiests. But then you go on to admit that athiesm was the dominant view that was being installed into people.

 

What I mean is they were killed because it was thought that atheists would be easier to manipulate, as they would look to the country's leader as a figure to follow.

The killings did not take place "in the name of atheism", or to spread it, or because the victims believed a different thing to the killers (note that many atheists died in Cambodia, China, and the USSR).

For the most part, religious people in these countries were killed because they were in the way of politics, as were many atheists.

Religion conflicted with the politics, so these people had (in the minds of the country's leaders) had to be gotten rid of.

[Haden]

What I mean is they were killed because it was thought that atheists would be easier to manipulate, as they would look to the country's leader as a figure to follow.

The killings did not take place "in the name of atheism", or to spread it, or because the victims believed a different thing to the killers (note that many atheists died in Cambodia, China, and the USSR).

For the most part, religious people in these countries were killed because they were in the way of politics, as were many atheists.

Religion conflicted with the politics, so these people had (in the minds of the country's leaders) had to be gotten rid of.

 

Oh I see where you are getting at maybe but its kind of word games in a sense althouh maybe your right about the governments objectives. However im willing to bet in fact I would say its just plain facts voilence and murder was commited during this period becasue someone was an athiest against a religious person.

 

Now this may have been an excuse becuase they didnt like them say like the witch accusations of the middle ages or it may have genunally been because of ideological belief and a group purification mentality that is what lies at the root of religous voilence not religious teaching (at least I can say that in the case of christianity I know the teaching doesnt justify killing people because they disagree with you).

[The fish]

(at least I can say that in the case of christianity I know the teaching doesnt justify killing people because they disagree with you).

 

The Crusades, anyone?

 

You can only speak for your own, personal interpretation of Christianity (and, in this case, Quakers).

[Haden]

The Crusades, anyone?

 

You can only speak for your own, personal interpretation of Christianity (and, in this case, Quakers).

 

Huh?

 

The crusades are christian nationalism. Where in the new testement which is christainity does it say take back the holy lands rape women kill people etc. It isnt about personal interpritation.

 

There are two commandments love god and love your neighbour. Which will lead you to say oh love god means you can to what you want. Well gods nature in the new testement is completley against say the crusades. I mean look at when a disciple struck a roman soldier who was arresting jesus. jesus repmeranded the disciple and healed the soldier!

 

The good samaritin the dont cast the first stone its not interpritation its clearly pointint towards what christianity is. And I will argue this as strongly with any christian who kills people outside abortion clinics as I am with you.

 

Wheras athiesm has no moral common ideology everything is up for grabs.

[Paj!]

This whole thing, coupled with my schools sudden relgious turn, and some programs I've been watching just make me dislike religion even more.

 

I hate pointless rules that promote hate.

[Brian Mcoy]

Mcoy misses his teddy bears

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

This whole thing, coupled with my schools sudden relgious turn, and some programs I've been watching just make me dislike religion even more.

 

I hate pointless rules that promote hate.

 

'Pointless rules that promote hate'? ...What are you talking about? Have you not learned anything from this thread?

 

Where does "Thou shall not kill" promote hate? Or "Thou shall not commit adultery"? Its the PEOPLE! In theory religion is just perfect.

 

Don't be a tool. Those 'programs' you watch are psychologically attaching puppet strings to your head.

[Iun]

In theory religion is just perfect.

 

 

Unless it's all lies.

[Sheikah]

Where does "Thou shall not kill" promote hate? Or "Thou shall not commit adultery"? Its the PEOPLE! In theory religion is just perfect.

 

Apart from it telling you the world is here because of a floating head.

[The fish]

Unless it's all lies.

 

QFT

 

Exhibit A: Scientology.

[khilafah]

there is no such thing as Moderate Islam and extreme Islam. If you follow Islam you are a Muslim. The media want to portray anyone who wants an Islamic Government with sharia law etc etc as some kind of crazy extremist. It is time for the Western World to accept that political islam is on the rise and the masses now want a caliphate.

 

This teddy bear example had nothing to do with Islam as she done nothing wrong. the Sudanese government used this for political reasons. The British government can not lecture any country about this considering they lock people up for writing poems. detained people without charge and shoot people at in dawn raids.

 

Oh and nice too see the they are still sending in their 'house negroes' to solve their problems..

 

I, for one, have no problem with Muslims, or at least, most of them.

I do, however, have an issue with the ones who want Sharia law, or try to push religious views into society.

If you don't want to integrate into our secular society, and want Islamic rule, then go to Arabia.

 

What about Muslims who want sharia law in the Muslim world. majority of Muslims have no problem living here. doesn't mean we all have to embrace the secular ideology. If we are good citizens, obey the law etc what is the problem?

 

And let me tell everyone on here that there is not one country in the world that is an Islamic State.

[Gizmo]

Is it wrong that one of my friends at school, previously nick-named "Teddy" is now being called "Muhammed"?

[The fish]

The British government can not lecture any country about this considering they lock people up for writing poems. detained people without charge and shoot people at in dawn raids.

 

Oh and nice too see the they are still sending in their 'house negroes' to solve their problems..

 

What about Muslims who want sharia law in the Muslim world. majority of Muslims have no problem living here. doesn't mean we all have to embrace the secular ideology. If we are good citizens, obey the law etc what is the problem?

 

And let me tell everyone on here that there is not one country in the world that is an Islamic State.

 

Shooting people because they are, as far as the police know, armed terrorists, is preferable to killing women for being raped (Pakistan) or placing a death sentence on the head of a man for converting from one bat-shit crazy faith to another (Afghanistan).

 

The peers who went to the Sudan went of their own accord - they were not representative (officially, anyway) of the government.

 

Muslims who want Sharia law in the Islamic world are arrogant, small minded fools - you are never going to be popular with the people if you ban them from drinking, and punish rape victims.

 

If there are no countries that are Islamic states, then someone might want to get in touch with their local Iranian, Afghani, Pakistani, or Mauritanian embassy: they'd probably like to know they are no longer an country...

[MoogleViper]

Is it wrong that one of my friends at school, previously nick-named "Teddy" is now being called "Muhammed"?

 

Nope that's funny.

 

I would contribute to this thread but I get sick of arguing against religions. All of the "we should respect their beliefs" and "it's what I believe so you can't go against it" is just a get out of jail free card..

[khilafah]

Shooting people because they are, as far as the police know, armed terrorists, is preferable to killing women for being raped (Pakistan) or placing a death sentence on the head of a man for converting from one bat-shit crazy faith to another (Afghanistan).

 

The peers who went to the Sudan went of their own accord - they were not representative (officially, anyway) of the government.

 

Muslims who want Sharia law in the Islamic world are arrogant, small minded fools - you are never going to be popular with the people if you ban them from drinking, and punish rape victims.

 

If there are no countries that are Islamic states, then someone might want to get in touch with their local Iranian, Afghani, Pakistani, or Mauritanian embassy: they'd probably like to know they are no longer an country...

 

 

See this is where people get confused and it is very annoying. They see a Woman killed in Pakistan because she was raped and think this is Islamic. In Islam the woman would not receive any punishment as she has done no harm.

 

Islam forbids alcohol so why shouldn't the Islamic state ban this. In Islam there are certain laws which are not up for debate. alcohol is one of them.

 

Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan are all Muslim countries but not Islamic states. an Islamic State has not existed since the fall of the Ottoman Caliphate in 1924. An Islamic State is when the state is ruled under Islam in all matters. Social, Economic and political systems all should be islamic.

 

Most Muslim countries are ruled by dictators who are supported by the west. They only use the sharia when it suites them.

[The fish]

"it's what I believe so you can't go against it" is just a get out of jail free card..

 

If this is brought up, ask them what they think the moon is made of. If they say rock, tell them it's made of cheese because you believe it is, so it must be.

 

Islam forbids alcohol so why shouldn't the Islamic state ban this. In Islam there are certain laws which are not up for debate. alcohol is one of them.

 

Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan are all Muslim countries but not Islamic states. an Islamic State has not existed since the fall of the Ottoman Caliphate in 1924. An Islamic State is when the state is ruled under Islam in all matters. Social, Economic and political systems all should be islamic.

 

Most Muslim countries are ruled by dictators who are supported by the west. They only use the sharia when it suites them.

 

Why should we do anything a religion tells us to, especially a notoriously evil, medieval, backward one? Stopping from people from enjoying a nice cold beer while watching someone get stoned for adultery is just stupid.

 

Iran, Mauritania, Afghanistan, and Pakistan are all Islamic republics, and Arabia is a country in which the official religion is Islam, ergo they are Islamic states. If you want to say "Britain and Denmark have Christianity as an official religion", than don't - the UK and Denmark are both secular, something you most definitely cannot say about Arabia, Afghanistan, etc.

 

The faster the US gets rid of it's nasty oil addiction, the better, as Arabia can revert to being a backward, medieval, ineffective nowhere which is a favorite target for Amnesty campaigns.

[MoogleViper]

If this is brought up, ask them what they think the moon is made of. If they say rock, tell them it's made of cheese because you believe it is, so it must be.

 

One time a christian told me I was stupid for believing in ghosts. Hypocritical much?

 

I then even told this to my RE teacher and she said, "I see what you mean but there's a difference." How is there? Just because I don't claim mine to be the be all and end all of the universe. And there are far more eyewitnesses of ghosts than jesus, god, angels or any other religous creature.

[The fish]

One time a christian told me I was stupid for believing in ghosts. Hypocritical much?

 

When the revolution comes, he shall be first up against the wall.

 

Bloodshed is fun!