The fish Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 I'm an athiest, but can still get some of what the bible is trying to say. On thing that has to be said is that Jesus, or the author who created the character of Jesus, was almost 2000 years ahead of his time...
Supergrunch Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 On thing that has to be said is that Jesus, or the author who created the character of Jesus, was almost 2000 years ahead of his time... I think Jesus almost certainly existed in some way or other, given all the different sources describing him. However, it's quite possible that he was simply a conman or agitator of some sort.
Slaggis Posted September 22, 2007 Author Posted September 22, 2007 I think Jesus almost certainly existed in some way or other, given all the different sources describing him. However, it's quite possible that he was simply a conman or agitator of some sort. I'd love someone to say that to the pope, just too see his reaction. But yeah, he most certainly existed in some form, with all the things written about him there's no chance he didn't. What form he existed in is the question though, like you say, maybe a conman etc.
Mr-Paul Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 Even if you aren't a Christian, I feel that the Bible has some good stories that ecourage a good way of life. it is no way all fact as it was written based on people's own experiences and has been translated a million times, which means it has probably been altered ever so slightly each time, but has some good moral stories which encourage a good way of life, whether you believe in God or not.
UK Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 Some theorists believe that the Biblical Jesus, and the historical Jesus, are two different things. The Biblical Jesus may of got confused with the life of another Jesus who lived in Jerusalem, 30 years afetr the Biblical account. The historical evidence shows that this Jesus what a devoted Jew.
Slaggis Posted September 22, 2007 Author Posted September 22, 2007 Some theorists believe that the Biblical Jesus, and the historical Jesus, are two different things. The Biblical Jesus may of got confused with the life of another Jesus who lived in Jerusalem, 30 years afetr the Biblical account. The historical evidence shows that this Jesus what a devoted Jew. Apparently he was about 70-80 when he died (from what we know), whereas most movies etc seem to portray him as a young man when he was alledgedly crucified. Why?
UK Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 Apparently he was about 70-80 when he died (from what we know), whereas most movies etc seem to portray him as a young man when he was alledgedly crucified. Why? Where did you get that from? Although the Bible is very vague when it brings up Jesus' personal life, I would've thought he was in his early thirties. Also, another gospel account of Jesus' childhood, straight from the infancy gospel of Thomas: [(1) The son of Annas the scribe was standing there with Jesus. Taking a branch from a willow tree, he dispersed the waters which Jesus had gathered. (2) When Jesus saw what had happened, he became angry and said to him, "You godless, brainless moron, what did the ponds and waters do to you? Watch this now: you are going to dry up like a tree and you will never produce leaves or roots or fruit." (3) And immediately, this child withered up completely. Then, Jesus departed and returned to Joseph's house. (4) The parents of the one who had been withered up, however, wailed for their young child as they took his remains away. Then, they went to Joseph and accused him, "You are responsible for the child who did this." Chapter 4 (1) Next, he was going through the village again and a running child bumped his shoulder. Becoming bitter, Jesus said to him, "You will not complete your journey." (2) Immediately, he fell down and died. (3) Then, some of the people who had seen what had happened said, "Where has this child come from so that his every word is a completed deed?" (4) And going to Joseph, the parents of the one who had died found fault with him. They said, "Because you have such a child, you are not allowed to live with us in the village, or at least teach him to bless and not curse. For our children are dead!" Chapter 5 (1) And taking his child aside, he warned him, saying, "Why are you doing these things? These people are suffering and they hate us and cause trouble for us." (2) Then, Jesus said, "I know that the words I speak are not mine. Nevertheless, I will be silent for your sake, but these people will bear their punishment." And immediately his accusers became blind. /QUOTE]
Slaggis Posted September 22, 2007 Author Posted September 22, 2007 Where did you get that from? Although the Bible is very vague when it brings up Jesus' personal life, I would've thought he was in his early thirties. Also, another gospel account of Jesus' childhood, straight from the infancy gospel of Thomas: Our philosophy teacher, it's from writings specifying when he was born and when he died or something. I don't know lol.
Oxigen_Waste Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 Fuck the bible. All it teaches you is how to mask your instincts. It's only function is to oppress all manner of free thinking. =)
Sanchez Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 Even if you aren't a Christian, I feel that the Bible has some good stories that ecourage a good way of life. it is no way all fact as it was written based on people's own experiences and has been translated a million times, which means it has probably been altered ever so slightly each time, but has some good moral stories which encourage a good way of life, whether you believe in God or not. It also has plenty of bad stories. We would have these morals bible or not, they're ingrained in our blood.
Cube Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 A Christian's aim is not to believe the Bible- its too follow it's meaning. Laws now replace the bible's meaning of "Be good or be punished".
Haver Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 And who would want to hear its twisted messages? Who, pray tell, would willingly be surveyed by a mean, vengeful Man In The Sky, who knows your every thought, and does not think twice about committing mass genocide (i.e. Killing every human on earth) as punishment? Fuck that.
Mr-Paul Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 It also has plenty of bad stories. We would have these morals bible or not, they're ingrained in our blood. Not necessarily. If we all had these morals anyway, why do people do things that are morally wrong, such as crime?
Slaggis Posted September 22, 2007 Author Posted September 22, 2007 does not think twice about committing mass genocide (i.e. Killing every human on earth) as punishment? Fuck that. I've never got that story. I mean, drowning everyone on earth because it was full of sin or whatever? I mean what is this supposed gods problem? I have a question! (It's philosophy homework) Would we have morals as people if it wasn't for religion?
Sanchez Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 Not necessarily. If we all had these morals anyway, why do people do things that are morally wrong, such as crime? Because they're desperate or they've been brainwashed or deluded into thinking it's necessary. I imagine many criminals feel guilty about what they've done.
Mr-Paul Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 I've never got that story. I mean, drowning everyone on earth because it was full of sin or whatever? I mean what is this supposed gods problem? I have a question! (It's philosophy homework) Would we have morals as people if it wasn't for religion? Yes. (sort of explanation below) Because they're desperate or they've been brainwashed or deluded into thinking it's necessary. I imagine many criminals feel guilty about what they've done. Well I think we aren't born with morals. In my opinion, We learn morals by being taught them as a child, and these are based on what is socially accpetable. Away of teaching morals is through religion and the bible. On the socially accpetable point, in some countries and religions, it is acceptable to have multiple wives, but here, we would say it is morally wrong to have many wives. Therefore, I feel we aren't born with morals, but religion isn't necessary for learning morals, and our morals are based on what is socially acceptable.
Sanchez Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 Then why did I feel bad about killing a hamster when i was a kid when nobody had ever told me "Killing an animal is bad"?
Slaggis Posted September 22, 2007 Author Posted September 22, 2007 Then why did I feel bad about killing a hamster when i was a kid when nobody had ever told me "Killing an animal is bad"? I Think we all have some form of moral code inside us from the moment we are born. It's the enviroment around us that makes us choose whether to go by them or not.
Mr-Paul Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 I Think we all have some form of moral code inside us from the moment we are born. It's the enviroment around us that makes us choose whether to go by them or not. Yeah, thats a very good idea actually. We are born with some sort of innate morals, or an ability to be moral, and these are shaped by the situation we are in.
UK Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 Fuck the bible. All it teaches you is how to mask your instincts. It's only function is to oppress all manner of free thinking. =) How could you say such a thing? Without the Bible, we wouldn't be a monarchy, Europe may now be Muslim, and you may not even of been born. Maybe if you think before saying something powerful like 'fuck the b*ble', it may help.
Supergrunch Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 How could you say such a thing? Without the Bible, we wouldn't be a monarchy, Europe may now be Muslim, and you may not even of been born. Maybe if you think before saying something powerful like 'fuck the b*ble', it may help. Well, what's the problem with Europe being Muslim and there being no monarchy? And the life of a non-influential individual, whoever they may be, is hardly relevant. N.B. I believe the bible is important - for Christians, for a document of historic interest, and for the messages it contains. (I believe the contents is intended to be a collection of parables)
UK Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 Well, what's the problem with Europe being Muslim and there being no monarchy? And the life of a non-influential individual, whoever they may be, is hardly relevant. N.B. I believe the bible is important - for Christians, for a document of historic interest, and for the messages it contains. (I believe the contents is intended to be a collection of parables) So you agree with me that saying what he said was unacceptable? And I never said not having a monarchy etc was wrong, just that the Bible has everything to do with him
Supergrunch Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 So you agree with me that saying what he said was unacceptable? And I never said not having a monarchy etc was wrong, just that the Bible has everything to do with him Not unacceptable as such, just narrow minded.
Zell Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 How could you say such a thing? Without the Bible, we wouldn't be a monarchy, Europe may now be Muslim, and you may not even of been born. Maybe if you think before saying something powerful like 'fuck the b*ble', it may help. A lot of Islam was derived from Christianity (Jesus is actually a prophet in Islam). So without the bible, I don't think Islam would exist.
Oxigen_Waste Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 How could you say such a thing? Without the Bible, we wouldn't be a monarchy, Europe may now be Muslim, and you may not even of been born. Maybe if you think before saying something powerful like 'fuck the b*ble', it may help. Avoiding monarchy would've been a blessing. And what's wring with being Muslim??? So what if I wasn't born? I'm talking about greater good!! And just because you decided to claim that I should think before I speak, I'm gonna show just how much thought I put into it, my dear child. The Holy Bible is, basically, a church approved life guide who claims that every single thing wich is liberating to the human spirit or different in any way is a bad thing and should not be done, if one should want to live purely. At the same time, it's completely fucking discriminating toward those that do not follow it's code. Basically, the holy bible teaches you how to be a good sheep. Well guess what? I'm no sheep! I don't intend on following anyone's rules, let alone those of 2000 year old "virtuosos" who thought that the only solution to life was being as pure as you can get. The bible tells what to think. Allow me to use a slightly altered quotation: "You see, according to the church's plan I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think; I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech and freedom of choice. I'm the kind of guy likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder - "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecued ribs with the side order of gravy fries?" I WANT high cholesterol. I wanna eat bacon and butter and BUCKETS of cheese, okay? I want to smoke Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section. I want to run through the streets naked with green Jell-o all over my body reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly might feel the need to, okay??" Any type of teaching that may in any way limit my freedom, is, as far as I'm concerned, a anti-human manifesto. Oh, and just so you know, I've read through most of the bible, and honeslty, the world would've been 100 times better off without it or any type or religious belief, for that matter. I'm proud to be an atheist! And seriously, kid, name a single advantage that came from the existence of the holy bible? I wonder why you named monarchy as good thing... It's one of the worst things to have befallen mankind. (Oh, and try as you might, you'll never stop me from saying "fuck the bible", that's what I think about it, and you're not one that can change that.) EDIT: Since you're taking forever to reply, I'm off. I'll see your reply later.
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