Jon Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 God help us all if England win, we'll never hear the end of it. I'd be suprised if they did like, consider the last drubbing they got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaggle64 Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 God help us all if England win, we'll never hear the end of it. I'd be suprised if they did like, consider the last drubbing they got. One penny. Just one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 If England win on Saturday I may have to kill someone. The press will be unbearable. They won't shut up about winning it twice in a row for years. God help us all if England win, we'll never hear the end of it. I'd be suprised if they did like, consider the last drubbing they got. I'm with these guys. Have another penny. Every 2 years, when a World Cup or European Championship comes up, its "Can England match 66?" then cue a 4 minute montage of footage from 66 and interviews from the players. Have your front page hysteria the next day, your parade in trafalgar square a week later, but for the love of god 40 years on nobody gives a shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaggle64 Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 I just don't get it. After the last Rugby World Cup, England's win received ne'r a single comment after about a week, while in Scottish media even the mightiest English victory is generally relegated to a small column alongside the golf results. The constant referencing to 66 does get a bit annoying, but the only person who ever does that is John Motson during England footie matches. Thank god for optional Radio 5 commentary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 I hear what you're saying but to us Scots, the jealous neighbours who are too small a country to ever win anything, it's bloody annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conzer16 Posted October 15, 2007 Author Share Posted October 15, 2007 As happy as I am for England to get to the Final, I will be ecstatic if they lose. (sorry...) I honestly feel, however that SA will be too good for ye. Your backs will be the key to your successs, let's hope for a good game, and Monty doing a Jonny on ye! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 I hear what you're saying but to us Scots, the jealous neighbours who are too small a country to ever win anything, it's bloody annoying. And that's the attitude which makes the statement true. What position are we in our Euro 2008 qualifying group again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motion Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 As happy as I am for England to get to the Final, I will be ecstatic if they lose. (sorry...) I honestly feel, however that SA will be too good for ye. Your backs will be the key to your successs, let's hope for a good game, and Monty doing a Jonny on ye! Please keep the slating coming, that's all everyon's been doing since the Tonga game. People didn't think we'd win that, then they thought Aus would destroy us, then they thought France would 'be too good for us'. Bet the England lads are ecstatic to be written off again, just how they like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaggle64 Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 It's not like Scotland doesn't produce it's fair share of sporting heroes though, especially given its' relative size. The Scottish rugby & football teams remain highly competitive, produced at least one F1 champion and one American Indy Car Champion, a number of Olympic medallists, top tier golfers, and Britain's best chance for a tennis grand slam is himself Scottish. For a nation of no more then about five million people that's a mighty impressive sporting lineage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 And that's the attitude which makes the statement true. What position are we in our Euro 2008 qualifying group again? Exactly. As a nation, we persistantly overachieve in sport, really. When you look at it, we have a population of what, 5million? And Ukraine is something more like 60million I think I heard? We convincingly beat them. Not just a hard working, outstanding result like France, but a convincing win that we could pull out regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 As some above have said, my beef comes with the constant whittering about the past. It doesn't help when you hear Motson almost ejaculating on air when England score any goal. Our victory over france was nothing short of amazing, yet every englishman was like "blah blah", yet they expect us to write speeches about their succusses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaggle64 Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Well I don't think you can expect English sports fans to run around throwing parades for the success of other teams. If Scotland does well, any subsequent celebrations are generally a Scottish prerogative. Nor will you find English sports fans tuning in to Scottish matches to support the other guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Well I don't think you can expect English sports fans to run around throwing parades for the success of other teams. If Scotland does well, any subsequent celebrations are generally a Scottish prerogative. Nor will you find English sports fans tuning in to Scottish matches to support the other guy. Difference is Scotland coverage is mainly reserved for Scottish programs. Local news, etc. We get all the English crap other than the more specifically local stuff, while England get hardly any of the Scottish. That description came out really wrong but I can't think right now of how to word it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motion Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Oh dear, enough with the bitterness please and can you all take the giant bags of King Edwards off your shoulders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conzer16 Posted October 15, 2007 Author Share Posted October 15, 2007 It's not bitterness by any means motion. I for one am happy for England to have gotten as far as they have. They have stunned the world with their performance as of late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Oh dear, enough with the bitterness please and can you all take the giant bags of King Edwards off your shoulders Bitterness, I honestly have don't care who wins, I have no time for egg chasing whatsoever. Remind me, who is top of our euro 2008 group? I'm just so bitter about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motion Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 I really don't give a fuck about wanky football so no idea who is top of whatever group nor do I care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 I guess now that Hobbz and Ant are gone we need another pair of people to argue in a sports thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr-Paul Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 What's wrong with the English being happy if they win something? And why isn't the press allowed to be happy too? I'm sure if Scotland won something there would be lots of celebration aswell, I wouldnt complain at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conzer16 Posted October 16, 2007 Author Share Posted October 16, 2007 Fantatic editorial in today's Irish Independent: Time to show our English neighbours deserved respect England have made the most of their limited creative talent to make it once again to the final stage of a Rugby World Cup. The squad and management should be given due regard for their ability to perform beyond expectations in the knock-out stages. By Tony Ward Tuesday October 16 2007 Begrudgery has long been our national disease. If anything, this era of the Celtic Tiger has made it even more rampant than ever. We truly are a nation of begrudgers. Picture this scene if you will. Ireland has just pulled off its second win in Paris in 33 years. Peter Stringer has started it all off with the classic box chip creating the opportunity for try scorer supreme Denis Hickie to pop over in the corner. The French crowd are stunned, their players even more so. They respond in kind but Ireland's defence is brave to a fault, with second-half replacement Neil Best's hand trip on Vincent Clerc the supreme defensive act in keeping his country's dream alive (think Stringer on Dan Luger at Lansdowne in '03). Into the final quarter and Ireland are just where they want to be: within a Ronan O'Gara kick of taking the lead. ROG duly obliges and tags on the icing in terms of a last minute drop goal thereby ensuring the classic World Cup smash and grab. The country is in ecstasy. A place in the World Cup final against all known odds and pre-match prediction now beckons. We have never known a feeling like it. But, hold fire, across the water our nearest neighbours are slating us . . . xenophobia beyond any extreme of reasoned rationality. What Brian Ashton, Mike Forde, Phil Vickery, Martin Corry and every one of the English heroes have achieved at this World Cup is truly extraordinary. To come back from a 36-point pasting to South Africa in the pool and win through on merit to the World Cup Final in a matter of weeks is an unbelievable achievement and should be acknowledged as such. Here we have an English squad on the rack, being slated from all quarters, so what do they do? They cut their cloth and their rugby ambition to suit the limited creative talent at their disposal. It is called tactical appreciation. Since being annihilated by the 'Boks they have dug deep, stuck to clearly defined if limited rugby principles and, if that means they have reverted to type, then what would we give to be where Ashton and his incredibly courageous team are right now? Surely we've lost the run of ourselves when we no longer have the good grace to acknowledge the achievement of a squad humiliated at Croke Park (43-13) and more recently by South Africa at this World Cup. Think of the humility of Ashton, Corry and this English team in defeat at Croker back in February and compare it with our begrudging reaction now. In my view England are short in two distinct areas. They lack creativity in midfield and, despite the back row heroics, a dynamic ball carrier in the last line of the scrum. Beyond that they have in place the prototype competitive team to which we all aspire i.e. a ball-winning physically engaging pack allied to game running halves one of whom happens to be the most potent match winner in world rugby. It is, too, a squad imbued with the principle of honesty for which former Irish Coach Ashton should take the lions' share of the credit. In the wider channels, too, they are hugely underrated. With due respect to the differing combinations used to fill the Irish back three at this World Cup, give me the Jason Robinson, Paul Sackey, Josh Lewsey trio anytime. This has been a global tournament in which defences have again dominated. It was never going to be any other way. England have been pragmatically sensible since losing to South Africa albeit with Jonny Wilkinson back on board. With Wilkinson in situ they are a different team entirely and their rugby has been tailored to win knock-out cup matches in the only way they know how. It is the essence of good team management; maximising limited resources, playing to your strengths and as much as possible plastering over the glaringly obvious weaknesses -- specifically in midfield. Why can't we, particularly given our own hugely disappointing effort, acknowledge this English achievement for what it undoubtedly is. Funny but I can't recall too much flowing rugby at the real business end of the competition from any of the four previous winners in their time. Winning cup competitions is about minimising mistakes, pressurising the opposition and capitalising upon the limited number of opportunities you manage to create. This English side has, since losing to South Africa and against mighty physical opposition in all four games, managed to tick those three relevant boxes admirably. Not for a minute am I suggesting it is pretty but it is winning rugby and mighty effective at that. Mind you, just as Bernard Laporte was dubbed a tactical genius for his second-half impact substitution of Freddie Michalak for Lionel Beauxis in Cardiff, this time it backfired badly and in my view handed the tactical initiative to the English given Michalak's proven inability to close a game out. Unfortunately for England they are coming up now against the side best equipped to outmuscle and out manoeuvre them at their own pragmatic and, yes, limited game. The 'Boks, as they showed without ever hitting top gear, have the ability to hit on the counter and, even more tellingly, attack convincingly running varied lines down all three midfield channels. Against the Pumas they won pulling up. The Argentinian plan, equally limited though hugely effective against us and the French in the pool stages, ran out of steam and ingenuity. Their force was met with equal force for the first time around the fringes while the pressure 'Bok defence, resulting in two clean intercepts, led directly to three of the four tries. Ominously for England the final score-line on Sunday was fully reflective of the game and from a highly motivated South African team clearly with a lot more in the tank. That said, England will be unrecognisable from the Stade de France when last the sides met. I too am a great romantic. Irrespective of who wins I would love next Saturday's final to be rugby's equivalent of Brazil's soccer success over Italy in Mexico in 1970. Were it to be England I doubt our ability or humility to grant them even a modicum of the credit they would deserve and that bothers me greatly. We as a nation signed up to the 21st century when, courtesy of the GAA, we invited English rugby and everything it stands for into Croke Park back in February. The Irish performance was the icing on a day when the real victory was in the unqualified respect for our neighbours we showed the watching world despite our bitter and subdued past. I thought that day, Saturday February 24, to be the line in the sand. Based on our grudging reaction to this momentous victory for English rugby -- arguably their greatest ever -- I am beginning to wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motion Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Very good piece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firthy1991 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 me thinks we need to brake habana's legs in a horrible yet subtle accident Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motion Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Not to mention Percy's, as well as Du Preez's hands and Steyn's drop goal kicking foot. Minor accidents that will only keep them out of action for about 6 days though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I'm sorry, but its times like this being English feels sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 me thinks we need to brake habana's legs in a horrible yet subtle accident I suggest that we send a subtle tip off to the relevant authorities to the effect that the entire South Africa team get placed in quarantine for some horrible (and possibly non-existent ) disease. We need something of that scale to be able to win without a hell of a lot of luck. South Africa are infinitely better than us, I'm afraid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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