One of Spores developers says "The Wii is a Piece of Sh*t!"

[Dante]

You also laughing at Aimless because he isn't immpressive with PS Home.

[Konfucius]

His complaints in previous rants had been directed at Microsoft and Sony for making multi-core monsters that tout graphics over smart game design. This time, Hecker had a little something to say about everyone's favorite console.

 

"The way you manufacture a Wii is you take two GameCubes and duct tape."

 

What does this guy actually want? A remote controlled monkey?

I mean the Wii is too weak, the others are too powerful so he only likes the PC or what?

 

And about that art thing. I think Nintendo doesn't see a need to talk about it as they are very Japan centered where videogames are more accepted as a form of entertainment than here. So a common excuse to make them more acceptable is to call them art.

But I don't think most games are art. They are like films. I'd hardly call most of the Arnie films art. However there are films like Hero which deserve to be called art.

I think a stupid ego-shooter is a form of entertainment but not of art. After all most them simply try to recreate the real world as accurately as possible. In that case earth would be art as well.

But then there are titles like Zelda WW, killer7, Super Mario... I wouldn't call TimeSplitters 3 a piece of art though, that simply has a nice art direction but doesn't bring any revolutionary elements with it that actually influence culture or provoke.

 

However I must admit he's got some point when he says that more powerful hardware can offer more possibilities but then there's also the question of how you put them to use. For instance lazy coding or over-complex routines in AIs take lots of resources although those could be used for other things if more effort was put into it.

[Aimless]

Yes it did have good AI for the time. But AI has come along in leaps and bounds since then.

I'm sure it has, but how many recent games have AI better than Halo's? Let's see you have F.E.A.R. and... oh, that's right we're still shooting cardboard cutouts in the majority of games, and driving amidst virtual drivers that follow their lines and don't give a crap about us.

 

No I'm saying the style, becuase if they did the entire thing in any other stye it wouldn't work as well as the water brush style. And your second point their makes no sense about 360.

My point was that the 360 is a lot more powerful than the Wii, yet how many of the games utilise this power for anything more than applying Next-Gen Sheen?

 

Very few people ever make full use of a system before the next iteration comes around, and it's very hard to get to grips to the ins-an-outs of a machine before the next generational leap. Nintendo's focus was on new ways to play games, and for others to share this vision it's far easier for them to be working on a system similar to that which they have been working on over the last 5 years. It makes perfect sense for the Wii to be 'underpowered' because it isn't trying to be a multi-core behemoth.

 

There is so much more to be gotten out of the 'last generation' consoles, and similarly there is so much more to be gotten from the Wii — the same is true of the 360 and PS3. I think games as a whole would be better if people stopped crying out for more power and instead wanted developers to truly master the systems they work on. Shadow of the Colossus, Okami, Final Fantasy XII, Metal Gear Solid 3, Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, Mario Sunshine, Resident Evil 4, Halo 2, Fable. All of those games tried to push the systems they were made for and, hey, they turned out pretty good.

[Cube]

He's making spore, and he's moaing about art.

 

Somoene please tell him that 3D landscapes look artisticly better without reams of butt-ugly 2D Clumps of grass covering them. And is probably why Nintendo didn't bother with them in Zelda. Because they care about art.

[4q2]

What a strange person this Hecker is.

 

When he joined Maxis, was it based on the fact that the Sims are up there in the category of games that are an art form ?

Is he some alien force that is trying to take over the world with a console army that uses really complex AI routines ?

 

This guys logic is lost on me......20+ years of gaming and I simply dont see what he is saying.....

Entertaining and fun software can be considered an artform, something which Nintendo have as much if not more discipline in than most.

If we are talking good games that can seriously fall into the 'art form' category that have appeared over the years I could count those titles on one hand. Which leads to the question:

- Would this guy argue that pencil and paper is an inferior medium at the side of digital production mediums ?

[SimonM7]

Art isn't art because somebody says so. Art just IS.

 

 

If this guy truly believes videogames are art (and he should!) then a word on a website is completely and utterly without significance.

[ZeldaFreak]

Ironically, HF2 was doable on Xbox.

 

Yes well then yes, but although it was good it had both graphics and ai altered for the xbox version though.

 

A games developer says something about Nintendo. A bunch of fans with no experience say another.

I know who i'm going to listen to.

 

Yeah I know what you mean - everytime someone says someone about sony/microsoft its just LOL, but when its nintendo its oh well hes crap he knows nothing. If you can make a game which shows how much of a liar he is go ahead. But he has experience in the games industry alot more than any of the guys on these forums has.

 

I'm sure it has, but how many recent games have AI better than Halo's? Let's see you have F.E.A.R. and... oh, that's right we're still shooting cardboard cutouts in the majority of games, and driving amidst virtual drivers that follow their lines and don't give a crap about us.

 

Alot of titles have more advanced ai than halo's you know, most games on the 360 have better ai than Halo's ai you know.

 

 

My point was that the 360 is a lot more powerful than the Wii, yet how many of the games utilise this power for anything more than applying Next-Gen Sheen?

 

Nearly every game on 360 uses the power for cleaning up the graphics and adding decent ai and physics as well.

 

Very few people ever make full use of a system before the next iteration comes around, and it's very hard to get to grips to the ins-an-outs of a machine before the next generational leap. Nintendo's focus was on new ways to play games, and for others to share this vision it's far easier for them to be working on a system similar to that which they have been working on over the last 5 years. It makes perfect sense for the Wii to be 'underpowered' because it isn't trying to be a multi-core behemoth.

 

There is so much more to be gotten out of the 'last generation' consoles, and similarly there is so much more to be gotten from the Wii — the same is true of the 360 and PS3. I think games as a whole would be better if people stopped crying out for more power and instead wanted developers to truly master the systems they work on. Shadow of the Colossus, Okami, Final Fantasy XII, Metal Gear Solid 3, Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, Mario Sunshine, Resident Evil 4, Halo 2, Fable. All of those games tried to push the systems they were made for and, hey, they turned out pretty good.

 

So what your effectivly saying is while 360 and ps3 will be alive and kicking still in 10 years after they have launched, the wii will be 6ft under while Nintendo is releasing a new console? Yep that somes up how I feel as well

[Guest Jordan]

 

Alot of titles have more advanced ai than halo's you know, most games on the 360 have better ai than Halo's ai you know.

 

That sir, is basically bull shit.

No game but F.E.A.R on the PC (the 360/PS3 versions have had alot of the AI code stripped due to porting problems) has touched Halo 1's AI.

[4q2]

Yeah I know what you mean - everytime someone says someone about sony/microsoft its just LOL, but when its nintendo its oh well hes crap he knows nothing. If you can make a game which shows how much of a liar he is go ahead. But he has experience in the games industry alot more than any of the guys on these forums has.

 

Having industry experience means nothing in terms of the big picture of production. That comment is the same as saying you would listen to any comment Girls Aloud make about studio technology and production methods whereas anyone else outside of the industry knows squat about good music.

 

Complex AI isnt something that most games require and graphics are as good as the artist trying to convey their vision (ie. photorealism can be nice but there are plenty of ways of showing the same thing to a satisfactory level where it will not have a negative effect on the experience), and as SimonM7 says "art just is" (argue that Picasso produced a lot of shite in his time with a bunch of art critics and see how far you get).

 

In gaming as in all media, the audience is paramount, and from my pov because this guy simply cant make his vision come true on the Wii means he is incompetent with his creativity on an artistic level....

[ZeldaFreak]

That sir, is basically bull shit.

No game but F.E.A.R on the PC (the 360/PS3 versions have had alot of the AI code stripped due to porting problems) has touched Halo 1's AI.

 

No sir you speak bullshit Halo's ai was good at the time. You may wish to believe this but its not the case quite simply Elder Scrolls AI was indeeed far more advanced than Halos AI.

 

Infact thinking back to it Halo when you went up to an enemy they would just stand their do nothing and wait to be shot.

 

So in that regard everygame has better AI than that of Halos

[SimonM7]

That's 'cause you were playing on easy.

[Guest Jordan]

That's 'cause you were playing on easy.

 

Uhuh.

Legendary or even Hard mode on Halo is just insane.

[Fierce_LiNk]

 

 

Yeah I know what you mean - everytime someone says someone about sony/microsoft its just LOL, but when its nintendo its oh well hes crap he knows nothing. If you can make a game which shows how much of a liar he is go ahead. But he has experience in the games industry alot more than any of the guys on these forums has.

 

 

 

 

He may have more experience than you or I, but the door swings both ways, kiddo. Don't you think it's slightly wrong of him to basically flame the shit out of Nintendo in the manner that he does? You talk about experience, this guy is openly having a pop at Nintendo...he's small fry.

 

Aw well, I think he's just trying to make a name for himself, to be perfectly honest. There will also be someone else who questions Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft, and they will do it in worse ways than the previous guy. That's the way I see it.

[ZeldaFreak]

Artistic creation is limited to the hardware, better the hardware more potential there is.

 

Thats how I feel

[Shino]

Infact thinking back to it Halo when you went up to an enemy they would just stand their do nothing and wait to be shot.

 

Like most games, yup. The only one that really impressed me on that department was F.E.A.R.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Artistic creation is limited to the hardware, better the hardware more potential there is.

 

Thats how I feel

 

It's obvious to say that.

 

But, what I also feel is that not enough developers or teams are reaching their potential, or the potential for the machines. In a kind of sadistic way, forcing them to make do with weaker hardware is like saying "alright, you're going to have to work harder to get something out of this."

 

It reminds me of a drum kit, for example. Like, instead of having a massive set with 10 or 12 cymbals, you reduce it to a small sized kit with 1 or 2. I do it to myself sometimes, by forcing myself to think creatively with what I've got. It's kinda stupid really, but you get some interesting effects.

[Cube]

At least we don't get lumbered with unrealistic amounts of specular, gloss and bloom effects...

[SimonM7]

It reminds me of a drum kit, for example. Like, instead of having a massive set with 10 or 12 cymbals, you reduce it to a small sized kit with 1 or 2. I do it to myself sometimes, by forcing myself to think creatively with what I've got. It's kinda stupid really, but you get some interesting effects.

 

Just wanted to underline this. Best analogy I've read in ages and worthy of applause.

[ZeldaFreak]

creativity can be created on the next gen consoles to you know,just look at media molecules game for the ps3, looks more fun and just overall better than most stuff on the wii.

[Fierce_LiNk]

creativity can be created on the next gen consoles to you know,just look at media molecules game for the ps3, looks more fun and just overall better than most stuff on the wii.

 

Creativity is something that applies to most, if not all, consoles.

 

There will be games on each of the systems that will seem more fun than games on other systems. Each of the consoles are going to have their own little corner of awesome games, it's what's naturally expected.

[ZeldaFreak]

Can't wait though 5 years nintendo brings out a new console. 10 years time microsoft and sony bring out a new console.

[pedrocasilva]

Artistic creation is limited to the hardware, better the hardware more potential there is.

 

Thats how I feel

Wii's controller is hardware too, and I haven't seen nothing in the last and current gen that comes close when it comes to creating new stuff and potential.

 

Hardware power was more important in the past than it is today, there's no such diference between last gen and this one as there was for... for example PSone to PStwo.

 

That said, sure PS2 is really unpowered, but Wii isn't a PS2 by any means.

 

Today it's really a matter of time, attention to detail and artistic direction. And that's more important than putting 20.000 polygons on a character on-screen.

 

Wii needs to sell well though, since Epic is refusing to port it's engine and all, we need developers willing to invest on it.

Can't wait though 5 years nintendo brings out a new console. 10 years time Microsoft and sony bring out a new console.

You don't really believe that right?

 

PS2 was the weakest and the only last gen console that still lives, and DS is still alive and kicking, PSP might die before it.

 

Besides, if any of those brands are not getting the success they want no doubt they'll just make a newer console instead of prolonging it's life cycle. Look at Microsoft it had the fame of being the most powerful console and still it was the one who launched it's next gen attemp first.

 

Why? because they were not comfortable with those results.

[Cube]

Can't wait though 5 years nintendo brings out a new console. 10 years time microsoft and sony bring out a new console.

 

Can't wait though 5 years microsoft and sony brings out a new console thats affordable and fun. 10 years time nintendo bring out a new console.

 

Both are just as likely.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Can't wait though 5 years nintendo brings out a new console. 10 years time microsoft and sony bring out a new console.

 

Personally, I think it'll be a lot earlier than 10 years from now when MS and Sony bring out their new consoles. Can't see them sticking with the same machines as at their forepoint for 10 years, to be honest. They may and probably will continue supporting the machines when the new systems come around, but 10 years as their main systems doesn't seem like it's going to happen, to me.

 

Who knows, though.

 

Pedro: The Wii needs as much support as it can get. If the systems do continue to sell like hotcakes, others will want a piece of the pie and hop on board. I'm kinda hoping that games like Scarface and Sonic sell well, as third parties need to really consider the Wii and be positive towards it.

[pedrocasilva]

Pedro: The Wii needs as much support as it can get. If the systems do continue to sell like hotcakes, others will want a piece of the pie and hop on board. I'm kinda hoping that games like Scarface and Sonic sell well, as third parties need to really consider the Wii and be positive towards it.

100% agreed, Nintendo has the problem of making consoles to themselves and people buying them for their games, so it's been pretty difficult to sell third party games there since they lost their monopoly since we don't have much "general public".

 

If Nintendo was to make a next gen power centered game console it would just be "another nintendo console" thus the outcome and aproach to Nintendo consoles by the industry would not change.

 

Looking at what kinds of public are buying a Wii I'd say Nintendo did the best bet they could to get a new public, now we just need these games, even if crappy to sell, they sold on PS2; because it had public for them.

 

That or at least selling as well as their other consoles counterparts, as it's cheaper to develop for in the first place, it could make wonders for support.

 

 

About Sonic... I think Nintendo Wii will have no problems selling better than Xbox 360/PS3 did... Since they only sold about 200.000 copies for X360 in US.

 

But that wasn't Sega's goal, that's for sure.