Dante Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 One of Spore's developers rants about Nintendo's "two GameCubes stuck together with duct tape." During a session at GDC this morning titled 'Burning Mad - Game Publishers Rant,' time was taken about half way through to allow developers a chance to spew their own rants. One speaker, Chris Hecker, currently working on Spore at Maxis, took the opportunity to call out Nintendo for not taken games seriously. "The Wii is a piece of shit!" Hecker began his talk, which was called "Fear of a Wii Planet." He blasted a few bars of Public Enemy to set the tone. Hecker said the Wii is nothing more than two GameCubes stuck together with duct tape, and that the console isn't powerful enough to provide the next-gen experience he has been waiting for. Although he stated the system is "severely underpowered," Hecker noted that he wasn't simply referring to the Wii's graphical capabilities. He wants to spend a console's CPU making games more intelligent, and he has found the Wii doesn't have the power to process things like complicated AI. Hecker also took Nintendo to task for not taking games seriously enough. "It's not clear to me that Nintendo gives a shit about games as an art form," he said. To illustrate his point, he searched for references to games as art on all three console manufacturers web sites. While he found numerous such references on both the official PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 sites, Wii.com had none at all. He then shared quotes from executives at Sony and Microsoft talking about games as a serious artistic medium, and then a quote from a Nintendo executive saying the company only wanted to make "fun" games. Hecker ended his spirited rant with two demands for Nintendo: First, recognize and push games as serious art. And two, "make a console that doesn't suck ass." IGN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowV7 Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Wow,what can I say.... Wonder why he really hates it,just cause they aren't talking things seriously and underpowered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fierce_LiNk Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Haha, classic. Nintendo don't take games seriously? Indeed, they've only been in the business for God know's how long? Just shows how ignorant some people are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blender Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I would be frustrated if I had loads of awesome ideas but was limited by shitty old hardware limitations. So fair enough. I guess you need to keep awesome ideas within the limitations of the hardware. Its the same kind of frustration when you get a project you love cut short for financial consideration etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaggle64 Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Yes yes yes, but Will Wright likes Nintendo, and there's a version of Spore coming to DS as result, so everyone just relax. Move along people, nothing to see here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fierce_LiNk Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I would be frustrated if I had loads of awesome ideas but was limited by shitty old hardware limitations. So fair enough. I guess you need to keep awesome ideas within the limitations of the hardware. Its the same kind of frustration when you get a project you love cut short for financial consideration etc. If the guy is really such a talented developer, he should be able to be creative with what he's got. Sorry, but you can't always work with the best tools, the best team, the biggest budget and a time frame that lasts and eternity. If he can't work with what he's got, then maybe he isn't as talented as he thinks he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted March 7, 2007 Author Share Posted March 7, 2007 On Wiki about him is this: "In 2004, he took a job with Maxis, working with Will Wright on Spore. It is interesting to note that though Hecker is respected within the game industry, as of 2005 he still has not shipped a single game (this will likely change when Spore is released)." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaijin von Snikbah Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Wow, that sounds exactly like what some 10 year old would say. I suppose it makes more sense when you addd words like shit and duct tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeldaFreak Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Haha, classic. Nintendo don't take games seriously? Indeed, they've only been in the business for God know's how long? Just shows how ignorant some people are. Your misinterrupting what the guy is saying. He doesn't say Nintendo doesn't take gaming seriously. He says Nintendo does not take games as an ART form seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emasher Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 what the heck is wrong with developers these days first ea and now this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted March 7, 2007 Author Share Posted March 7, 2007 Your misinterrupting what the guy is saying. He doesn't say Nintendo doesn't take gaming seriously. He says Nintendo does not take games as an ART form seriously. To illustrate his point, he searched for references to games as art on all three console manufacturers web sites. While he found numerous such references on both the official PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 sites, Wii.com had none at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fierce_LiNk Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Your misinterrupting what the guy is saying. He doesn't say Nintendo doesn't take gaming seriously. He says Nintendo does not take games as an ART form seriously. And what does he mean by that exactly? Out of the big 3, I'd say it was Nintendo who were the most serious when it came to games as an art form. I think the guy's just being an arse, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMad Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 When's Miyamoto's speech? In British time please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 And two, "make a console that doesn't suck ass." Some one put this guy in touch with Sony, as they will show him a console that "sucks ass". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeldaFreak Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 If the guy is really such a talented developer, he should be able to be creative with what he's got. Sorry, but you can't always work with the best tools, the best team, the biggest budget and a time frame that lasts and eternity. If he can't work with what he's got, then maybe he isn't as talented as he thinks he is. Good games are created when you have the best tools. Just think of it this way you have a square mile of land that needs to be replanted. You are offered a trowl or a spade. Which one would you pick. Plus developers that don't use good tools, have a good game, or a good game idea - are hurt by the contraints of the system. Whilst crap developers who create shit like zorro they actually benefit because the can just say use the hardware limitations as an excuse for not create good looking, good playing, intelligent games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted March 7, 2007 Author Share Posted March 7, 2007 More Nintendo Rants. Usually it's the developers who get a chance to vent at GDC, but this time the publishers gave their two cents. Greg Costikyan, who ranted last year as a developer, spoke again at this session, this time on the publishers' side of things. "The console manufacturers have a choke hold on the industry, for which you may blame Nintendo." Costikyan called listeners' attention back to 1985 when Nintendo began its deliciously evil scheme of making publishers pay royalties for a game at its manufacture, regardless of sales. But Costikyan wasn't the only one who had beef with the Mario Mafia. GDC mainstay and developer Chris Hecker was given a chance to speak on the developers' behalf during the session. His complaints in previous rants had been directed at Microsoft and Sony for making multi-core monsters that tout graphics over smart game design. This time, Hecker had a little something to say about everyone's favorite console. "The way you manufacture a Wii is you take two GameCubes and duct tape." Not really surprising, but Hecker doesn't like that Nintendo's newest console is ridiculously underpowered, among other complaints. He also made some tongue-in-cheek comments about Nintendo's stance on games as a medium. "It's not clear to me that Nintendo gives a shit about gaming as an art form." I also liked the anecdote Lee Jacobson of Midway gave about working with a supposedly multi-team game developer. He said he met with team 1 of the unnamed developer, went to lunch, and then came back and met team 2. It didn't take him long to realize many members of the second team were repeats from the first, only with different clothes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaggle64 Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Keep in mind we're talking about a section of the conference called "developers rants". I'm not sure diplomatic language was expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeldaFreak Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 And what does he mean by that exactly? Out of the big 3, I'd say it was Nintendo who were the most serious when it came to games as an art form. I think the guy's just being an arse, to be honest. See I would disagree I would maybe say xbox 360 and ps3 are taking games seriously as an art form. As could Nintendo make a pixar like movie. PS3 and 360 would be able to. @Dante: you kinda just proved my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blender Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 "The console manufacturers have a choke hold on the industry, for which you may blame Nintendo." Costikyan called listeners' attention back to 1985 when Nintendo began its deliciously evil scheme of making publishers pay royalties for a game at its manufacture, regardless of sales. worse than that... they initiailly did not let 3rd parties make games. I tihnk they had to be taken to court to break the monopoly. There is a nice bbc documentary on the evil nintendo of the 1980/90s. Look on google vidoes or youtube. Probably more historically accurate than my recollection. But main point is that Nintendo are not the good guys and never have been. If you have been in the industry like these developers, I imagine its right to be cynical. They also hate nintendo for making better games and making their creations look a bit shit i guess. Back in the day of the cassete tapes.. developers would create and publish games independtly and hapilly. Then the big nasties came along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shino Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I understand his point, but he should calm down in a public speech. Its obvious Nintendo lost a lot of great games because of the direction it choose for the Wii. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fierce_LiNk Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Good games are created when you have the best tools. Just think of it this way you have a square mile of land that needs to be replanted. You are offered a trowl or a spade. Which one would you pick. Plus developers that don't use good tools, have a good game, or a good game idea - are hurt by the contraints of the system. Whilst crap developers who create shit like zorro they actually benefit because the can just say use the hardware limitations as an excuse for not create good looking, good playing, intelligent games. The system is underpowered, yes. But, look at Okami for example. It's created for the PS2, which is not state of the art hardware anymore, and less powerful than both the Gamecube and the Wii. The guy is talking bollocks. It may be underpowered, but if he's really that creative he can pull something off. Yeah, it's always nicer to have a more powerful system, but I think a lot of developers are getting lazy these days. Nobody has really pushed the DS to the brink, and I don't think they ever will. It's a great system, it has potential, so why don't developers actually dive into it and see what tricks they can pull off? Same with the Wii. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeldaFreak Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 When's Miyamoto's speech? In British time please. Its 18.30 to 19.30 GMT. He'll just talk about how as designer touch generation games has made loads of dosh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fierce_LiNk Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 See I would disagree I would maybe say xbox 360 and ps3 are taking games seriously as an art form. As could Nintendo make a pixar like movie. PS3 and 360 would be able to. @Dante: you kinda just proved my point. It's going to differ from person to person, but I guess it also depends on what he means as an art form. Going to the Wii website and looking at references isn't the right way to go about it, imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teppo Holmqvist Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 B]Greg Costikyan, who ranted last year as a developer, spoke again at this session, this time on the publishers' side of things. Costikyan... I know this guy from my other hobby, and though he is talented dude, he is also complete ass. He has been trying to push indie games for quite long time now, and is pretty pissed because nobody takes him seriously. If he would be less pretentious and actually have, y'know, good products, maybe then someone would take him seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shino Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Good games are created when you have the best tools. Just think of it this way you have a square mile of land that needs to be replanted. You are offered a trowl or a spade. Which one would you pick. Plus developers that don't use good tools, have a good game, or a good game idea - are hurt by the contraints of the system. Whilst crap developers who create shit like zorro they actually benefit because the can just say use the hardware limitations as an excuse for not create good looking, good playing, intelligent games. The way I see it, the Wii is the square mile of land while its development kit and IDE are the tools, which they say are very easy to work with. So while the land isn't great, with the right tools and hardwork it should prove fruitful. (no more analogies) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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