Anolis E Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 - The only skill needed is sight. Ie, find the next hookshot grab. Conveniently placed ones I might add. The Ooccoo of course use clawshots all the time. But yeah, that's pretty much all you have to do throughout the entire temple.- Big but not particularly interesting, every room being similar to the last. - Horrible horrible "music" - We're supposed to believe that that's a city for the Ooccoo? - Bit of a let down, item wise. Just dull and badly thought out really. When I found out there was to be a sky temple I got all excited and ended up being let down with the actual dungeon when I got there. Only memorable bit was the final boss which was fantastic. That's all in my opinion. Call me crazy, but at the very least I did rather like the music myself. The whole architecture of the dungeon was indeed not very reminiscent of a city. A much better job was done there with the ice palace, which fitted quite well with it's supposed function in terms of it's architecture. Nonetheless, I didn't have the idea that all the rooms of the sky city were the same. There was enough variation to be found there.
Coolness Bears Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 Wind Wakers graphics are as fresh and exciting today as they were in 2003. I thought Twilight Princesses graphics were excellent as well and still managed to take my breath away. I also prefer the fighting sysem in Twilight Princess. The added controls of the wiimote helped the Zelda series stay alive. The gamecube version probably feels too much like Ocarina of Time. The music is excellent in both but i feel Wind Waker has the edge there as it has more memorable tunes.
Slaggis Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 windwakers graphics were awesome. Twighlight princesses thouugh, I really dis-like them, their blurry quite alot of the time aswell. But then again i really like the style of windwaker as a whole, and as such enjoyed the game much more.
motion Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 Amazing how many people have been saying they prefer WW to TP lately. Still, I completely agree. As Goron_3 says, WW made you feel like a hero. TP made you feel like a lone soldier that no one really knows about saving a land that supposedly is in danger even though none of the inhabitants actually know it.
The Bard Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 ^ That's actually pretty spot on. There was no real character involvement of any depth in TP, I thought, in WW, from the first moment when that intro music plays, it gets you in the mood, and the atmosphere is there, and you feel like you have a real purpose. Still, Nintendo said that TP is the last Zelda of it's kind, which really makes me concerned for the series considering the direction Nintendo have been taking lately. Maybe the next one will be worse than TP.
McMad Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 All we can know for sure is that the sequel is probably gonna be delayed like hell if it's changing the series, like Ocarina and Prime. Expect it at the end of 2009 if we're lucky.
Atomic Boo Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 I thought TP had a great starting atmosphere, things moved on quite slowly, and the dungeons were quite fun and unique. I loved the Goron dungeons. However as it has been said, the game is rushed at the end. In fact I found myself racing to finish the single player because somehow the game seems to urge you through it. There weren't enough sidequests to do and Hyrule town was shocking, hardly anyone you could talk to and the 'shops' were rubbish. In OOT there were lots of minigames and bars and people to listen to but in TP it was all forgotten about. And I agree that the sky temple was a 'find the next clawshot target' dungeon. Oh yeah does anyone have any techniques for RollGoal or do you just have to have supreme skill? How do you get to the Chest just to the west (may not be west, not sure) of Hyrule? Its near the stairs and there's usually a woman planting flowers. I guess for me the Zelda gameplay got too repetitive for me. The dungeons were always the same but just looked slightly different. Basically a collectathon in a dungeon. Collect the monkeys Collect the magic orbs Find the 3 Goron people Kill the 4 Poes etc. What else did you have to collect in the other dungeons? Cant remember now, but you can see my point though. The main thing I was disappointed about was that Sarias song wasnt played much, if the Sacred Grove was a bigger dungeoney area and the song wasnt messed about with too much I would've been very happy. I know its not a huge point to most of you but i love the tune.
Coolness Bears Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 *Cough* I FINISHED ZELDA It was good. CONGRATULATIONS!!!! I haven't finished Zelda yet probably one of the only people left to do so.
Mikey Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 Finally bought a Wii and TP today. It's coming tomorrow in the post. Can't fucking wait!
Atomic Boo Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 Finally bought a Wii and TP today. It's coming tomorrow in the post. Can't fucking wait! word of advice: dont rush through the game, complete the sidequests and the secret items and do a lot of fishing before you wizz through the game. I find once you complete it you're less inclined to do the sidequests. Things like the hawkeye make the game a lot more fun.
LazyBoy Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 Wow, a lot has changed since I been in here. Wierdest thing is all this loving on Wind Waker, which is wierd considering it was getting this kind ripping on these boards when it first came out. I think some are looking at it through rose tinted glasses. Don't get me wrong it was a great game, but its story was inferior to Twilight Princesses, it had half as many dungeons, and it was far to short (though granted it was more sidequest based). I think the Sky Temple was great. Yes the Occoco couldn't live there, but the moon can't have an expression as well. Use your imagination. And yeah it was a little clawshot to clawshot, but I thought it was cool to have a little platforming to break up all the action, and the double clawshot made for a great final boss. As for being rushed at the end, yes it was a little. But so was OoT. The Shadow and Spirit temples were very rushed. And Wind Waker had you fighting all the same bosses at the end. Total cop-out.
Fierce_LiNk Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 Wow, a lot has changed since I been in here. Wierdest thing is all this loving on Wind Waker, which is wierd considering it was getting this kind ripping on these boards when it first came out. I think some are looking at it through rose tinted glasses. Agreed. The game was getting hugely criticised when we got our hands on it. We heard of "too easy" "too short" "too boring (triforce hunt" and "too cutesy." I liked the game, but I think I fell in love with TP more. It actually felt like there were problems in the land. Yeah, people in Castle Town didn't really have an idea what was going on, but don't you kinda think that adds to the atmosphere? Link is fighting a cause that very few acknowledge. It made him an un-sung hero.
LazyBoy Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 Flinky, when'd you get back. Missed you man. And I agree with the unsung hero thing. Link has always been the modest type.
McMad Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 I liked the game, but I think I fell in love with TP more. It actually felt like there were problems in the land. Yeah, people in Castle Town didn't really have an idea what was going on, but don't you kinda think that adds to the atmosphere? Link is fighting a cause that very few acknowledge. It made him an un-sung hero. That would make sense and would explain why there's nothing about this Link in Wind Waker other than the obvious fact that TP hadn't been thought of yet when WW was made.
Mikey Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 My copy came today, but I'm still waiting for my Wii to come. Think that'll be here tomorrow or something.
Gizmo Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 I would have preffered Wind Waker, but the sailing got me so impatient that I never finished it. I got to the section where I had to retrieve the triforce from each different corner of the ****ing map and gave up on the game. Twilight Princess never had one of those moments, so I would say I prefered it. If it wasn't for that Triforce quest though, WW would be my choice.
motion Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 Wow, a lot has changed since I been in here. Wierdest thing is all this loving on Wind Waker, which is wierd considering it was getting this kind ripping on these boards when it first came out. I think some are looking at it through rose tinted glasses. Don't get me wrong it was a great game, but its story was inferior to Twilight Princesses, it had half as many dungeons, and it was far to short (though granted it was more sidequest based). Or... now that the inferior TP has been released, it's making a lot of people realise how much better and more 'Zelda' WW was. TP had no story, and what story it did have was cobbled together and made no sense. I think the Sky Temple was great. Yes the Occoco couldn't live there, but the moon can't have an expression as well. Use your imagination. And yeah it was a little clawshot to clawshot, but I thought it was cool to have a little platforming to break up all the action, and the double clawshot made for a great final boss. If you enjoyed the Sky temple then cool, I'm pleased. I still see it as bland, frustrating and soul-less. As for being rushed at the end, yes it was a little. But so was OoT. The Shadow and Spirit temples were very rushed. And Wind Waker had you fighting all the same bosses at the end. Total cop-out. Are you kidding? The Shadow temple was the most elaborate and biggest temple in OOT, followed closely by the Spirit temple. What a concept, dungeons that get bigger, better and harder as you go along. A concept lost on TP. Agreed. The game was getting hugely criticised when we got our hands on it. We heard of "too easy" "too short" "too boring (triforce hunt" and "too cutesy." Again, I feel that people are starting to realise how good WW is, now that the dust has settled and they can look and analyse both games properly. I liked the game, but I think I fell in love with TP more. It actually felt like there were problems in the land. Yeah, people in Castle Town didn't really have an idea what was going on, but don't you kinda think that adds to the atmosphere? Link is fighting a cause that very few acknowledge. It made him an un-sung hero. If the story actually illustrated that Link was an un-sung hero then fine but it didn't. Personally I like a sense of doom, foreboding and knowing that Hyrule is depending on you. That would make sense and would explain why there's nothing about this Link in Wind Waker other than the obvious fact that TP hadn't been thought of yet when WW was made. TP takes place in the child OOT timeline, after Majora's Mask. Hence why Ganon has no knowledge of Link or the Master Sword. Wind Waker takes place in the adult OOT timeline, before Phantom Hourglass. I would have preffered Wind Waker, but the sailing got me so impatient that I never finished it. I got to the section where I had to retrieve the triforce from each different corner of the ****ing map and gave up on the game. Twilight Princess never had one of those moments, so I would say I prefered it. If it wasn't for that Triforce quest though, WW would be my choice. So because TP didn't have something hugely crap and frustrating (to you), you prefer it? Even though the game is dull, soul-less and makes you feel less like a hero, compared to WW? Fair enough if that's your opinion. Personally I did the triforce hunt DURING my quest to the Earth and Wind temples rather than all at once at the end. Much more enjoyable that way.
McMad Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 TP takes place in the child OOT timeline, after Majora's Mask. Hence why Ganon has no knowledge of Link or the Master Sword. Wind Waker takes place in the adult OOT timeline, before Phantom Hourglass. Fine if you think your right and I'm wrong where does TP take place in that Timeline then?
LazyBoy Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 Or... now that the inferior TP has been released, it's making a lot of people realise how much better and more 'Zelda' WW was. Nope, I like my explanation. You weren't around the boards back when WW came out (or at least under that name) so you wouldn't remember, but it's quite funny see how similar these two situations are. People would keep refering back to Majoras mask and saying WW was inferioir, even though i'm sure the same thing happened when that came out (I haven't been on these boards THAT long). It's just natural revisionist criticism after all the immediate post release hype. TP had no story, and what story it did have was cobbled together and made no sense. If that's you're opinion then okay, but personally I thought it was an epic story told with a beautiful subtilty. Sure it didn't have that chaos that MM had, but I prefer the less frantic nature of TP. It allows you to take your time more, something I felt you couldn't do in MM. Are you kidding? The Shadow temple was the most elaborate and biggest temple in OOT, followed closely by the Spirit temple. What a concept, dungeons that get bigger, better and harder as you go along. A concept lost on TP. I'm not arguing the dungeon itself wasn't good, it was the way you were rushed between the two. That felt like it was a cop-out. Personally I did the triforce hunt DURING my quest to the Earth and Wind temples rather than all at once at the end. Much more enjoyable that way. I'm sorry, but no sane person on these boards is going to call the triforce hunt enjoyable. Now don't get me wrong, I freaking loved WW, but that was a poor low of the Zelda series.
motion Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 Fine if you think your right and I'm wrong where does TP take place in that Timeline then? Here you go:
motion Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 Nope, I like my explanation. You weren't around the boards back when WW came out (or at least under that name) so you wouldn't remember, but it's quite funny see how similar these two situations are. People would keep refering back to Majoras mask and saying WW was inferioir, even though i'm sure the same thing happened when that came out (I haven't been on these boards THAT long). It's just natural revisionist criticism after all the immediate post release hype. Exactly. Post release hype for TP had everyone going on about how amazing it was. Now that the dust has settled and we can examine each Zelda title side by side, most people (at least most on this topic) seem to agree that WW is better than TP, or at least they prefered WW as it was more fun. If that's you're opinion then okay, but personally I thought it was an epic story told with a beautiful subtilty. Sure it didn't have that chaos that MM had, but I prefer the less frantic nature of TP. It allows you to take your time more, something I felt you couldn't do in MM. It did have a great story, right until Link got rid of the last bit of Twilight sweeping through Hyrule. All of a sudden we were on a quest to find a mirror... meanwhile Zant was doing pretty much nothing, just sitting on his arse in the twilight realm. Ganondorf, suddenly appears in the story, again no explanation, and we go through half the game finding mirror pieces, while he, yep, sits on his arse in Hyrule Castle. We have no idea what he wants, and there's no evidence of his taking over Hyrule (except that big diamond over Hyrule castle. He didn't attack anyone. It was as if Ganon was thrown into the game at the last minute, just to make the game seem more epic. As I said, TP had a great story going, right until the end of Arbiter's Grounds, when it disappeared. Replaced with a quest to hunt down 3 mirror pieces, and kill the two bad guys doing not very much to Hyrule. I'm not arguing the dungeon itself wasn't good, it was the way you were rushed between the two. That felt like it was a cop-out. How can you talk about rushing between dungeons when this is even more prominent in TP?? The amount of time between Lakebed and Arbiter's Grounds was about 10 minutes. Snowpeak and Temple of Time is about 10 minutes. City in the Sky and Palace of Twilight, about 5 minutes. Palace of Twilight and Hyrule Castle, 2 minutes. THAT my friend is a cop out. You question the length of time between Shadow and Spirit... infiltrating the Gerudo fortress, gaining their trust, finding the carpenters, doing a bit of horseback artchery before braving the Haunted Wasteland using the lens of truth to find the ghost. What about finding the Desert Collosus, getting into the Spirit temple only to find that you have to get an item as a child, then go back as an adult to proceed? Climbing on the outside of the temple to get the Mirror Shield then facing Twinrova? THAT is epic. And bear in mind, OOT is 9 years old. Games are supposed to get more epic as you go along, and they had been, till TP came about. What about the rest of the games. That's all that is 100% correct for now. I haven't thought about the others yet... Explanation to this: - Majora's Mask takes place in the child timeline for obvious reasons. Link looks for Navi as a child at the end of OOT, the setting for the beginning of MM. - Twilight Princess follows MM and is about a different Link. The scene in TP where Ganon is about to be executed by the sages happens after child Link goes back in time (end of OOT) and warns the Princess/King about Ganondorf. As told in TP, he escapes and spends time stuck in the Twilight Realm, till many years later when Zant comes around. This explains why TP Ganon has no knowledge of Link or the Master sword as to him, he hasn't fought Link yet (child Link warns the king/queen before the events of OOT play out) - The Wind Waker is in the Adult timeline because it speaks of the OOT legend + the fact that Link never returned to triumph eveil... because he'd been sent back in time by Zelda at the end of OOT. - Phantom Hourglass comes after WW for obvious reasons again.
LazyBoy Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 Exactly. Post release hype for TP had everyone going on about how amazing it was. Now that the dust has settled and we can examine each Zelda title side by side, most people (at least most on this topic) seem to agree that WW is better than TP, or at least they prefered WW as it was more fun. I feel a poll coming on. It did have a great story, right until Link got rid of the last bit of Twilight sweeping through Hyrule. All of a sudden we were on a quest to find a mirror... meanwhile Zant was doing pretty much nothing, just sitting on his arse in the twilight realm. Ganondorf, suddenly appears in the story, again no explanation, and we go through half the game finding mirror pieces, while he, yep, sits on his arse in Hyrule Castle. We have no idea what he wants, and there's no evidence of his taking over Hyrule (except that big diamond over Hyrule castle. He didn't attack anyone. It was as if Ganon was thrown into the game at the last minute, just to make the game seem more epic. As I said, TP had a great story going, right until the end of Arbiter's Grounds, when it disappeared. Replaced with a quest to hunt down 3 mirror pieces, and kill the two bad guys doing not very much to Hyrule. Okay we have to put this one down to opinion. Personally I think the game left you alone, like Zelda games are supoosed to. It ain't final fantasy thank you very much, and that's the way I want it to stay. How can you talk about rushing between dungeons when this is even more prominent in TP?? The amount of time between Lakebed and Arbiter's Grounds was about 10 minutes. Snowpeak and Temple of Time is about 10 minutes. City in the Sky and Palace of Twilight, about 5 minutes. Palace of Twilight and Hyrule Castle, 2 minutes. THAT my friend is a cop out. Ha, okay mate you've lost yourself here, I was giving OoT as an example of how it did it as well. Actually I admit TP was a little rushed just a page back. Go on, take a look. And bear in mind, OOT is 9 years old. Games are supposed to get more epic as you go along, and they had been, till TP came about. Dunno where you get that idea from. I feel games should be always striving to focus on gameplay instead of story.
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