The Bard Posted May 29, 2007 Posted May 29, 2007 You're making it sound as if we were the people that were complaining about Wind Waker, or at the very least lumping us into the same category. I never complained about it, I thought it looked awesome from the day it was announced. Twiliight Princess was a great game, but to be honest, it's my least favourite Zelda. 8.8.
Hellfire Posted May 29, 2007 Posted May 29, 2007 The Bard said: You're making it sound as if we were the people that were complaining about Wind Waker, or at the very least lumping us into the same category. I never complained about it, I thought it looked awesome from the day it was announced. Twiliight Princess was a great game, but to be honest, it's my least favourite Zelda. 8.8. I don't know if you said that or not, but most people did. When WW came outeveryone said it sucked and so on, now that TP came out WW was brilliant. Which it was. The rest is just subjective, to each one his own.
Shino Posted May 29, 2007 Posted May 29, 2007 I'm with Bard on this one, completely agree. And what happened to sneaking in TP? I remember seeing him sneak around, behind some rocks, to steal a sword.
Coolness Bears Posted May 29, 2007 Posted May 29, 2007 Shino said: I'm with Bard on this one, completely agree. And what happened to sneaking in TP? I remember seeing him sneak around, behind some rocks, to steal a sword. They probably changed it to the part where you sneak around as the wolf in your home town, trying to get the sword from the house that had the woman and the baby outside and husband with flame torch.
Hellfire Posted May 29, 2007 Posted May 29, 2007 Coolness Bears said: They probably changed it to the part where you sneak around as the wolf in your home town, trying to get the sword from the house that had the woman and the baby outside and husband with flame torch. That part was awesome. Also, you accuse TP of being a copy of OoT and you want sneaking in it, which has been made in all the recent 3D Zeldas?
Coolness Bears Posted May 29, 2007 Posted May 29, 2007 Hellfire said: That part was awesome. Also, you accuse TP of being a copy of OoT and you want sneaking in it, which has been made in all the recent 3D Zeldas? The whole game so far for me has been awesome. I'm not very far (I'm at the lake bed temple) got distracted for a while at lake hyrule which is a beautiful place. I haven't played since christmas though. Not because it's boring but revising got more intense and serious, so i'll pick it up again after my exams are over.
Coolness Bears Posted May 29, 2007 Posted May 29, 2007 Zell said: Wind Waker Sidequests >>>>> TP Sidequests I agree, there was more of them to do and they were more fun. Thats not to say i prefer the game over all. I can't say yet as i have barely scratched the surface of Twilight Princess. They are both excellent games and unfortunately live in the shadows of ocarina of time. Wind Waker has more charm to it however and is a lot different to previous Zelda games. Twilight princess feels to much like Ocarina of Time even though it's completely different. Both suffer from bosses being to easy.Twilight Princess has brilliant moments as well though and great level design.
motion Posted May 29, 2007 Posted May 29, 2007 Zell said: Wind Waker Sidequests >>>>> TP Sidequests I'm glad you agree. Hellfire said: Fishing and rollgoal are awesome. And you have the star thing, hearding buffaloos, sumo (shame you can't do it more), carrying the water, getting the magic armor and finishing the cave of ordeals. If that 'list' of sidequests is supposed to impress anyone then there's no point in arguing. The star thing which gets boring after 1 go, herding buffalos which gets boring after 0 goes, sumo? that's a sidequest is it?, carrying the water? wow. Magic armour... hardly a sidequest. The cave of ordeals was cool though so I'll give you that one. Even though the idea was ripped off of WW. So no points for originality there. Hellfire said: And what do you mean EVEN MM beats it. You talk like MM is some crappy game. Not at all, I find MM to be an amazing game with much more character and depth than TP. I said 'even' because MM is 8 years old! You'd expect games (and in this case sidequests) to get better, but with TP obviously not. Hellfire said: Well, that's a matter of taste, and I don't get why people say it's trying to be OoT, it's totally different.I mean, turning into a wolf, seeing spirits, using your senses, going into the twilight realm, the game is totally different from any other Zelda. MM = very different to OOT WW = even more different to OOT TP = OOT 2006, done badly. Coolness Bears said: Twilight Princess has brilliant moments as well though and great level design. Definately agree with that. TP did have some amazing bits but the overall game came up short to the other 3 3D Zeldas. 8.8/10 is about right. Where was the magic of infiltrating the Gerudo fortress, gaining their trust, finding the carpenters, doing a bit of horseback artchery before braving the Haunted Wasteland using the lens of truth to find the ghost. What about finding the Desert Collosus, getting into the Spirit temple only to find that you have to get an item as a child, then go back as an adult to proceed? Climbing on the outside of the temple to get the Mirror Shield then facing Twinrova? PURE GENIUS. And that was the storyline for just ONE of the temples!! Compare that to the storyline for the Temple of Time in TP, waltz into the Sacred Meddow, find the Skull kid and fight him again, then get into the temple of time after a quick puzzle. And then when you get to the temple, it's pretty much a case of walk straight, and do one room at a time, get an item, then go backwards to the entrance. Rubbish. The Bard said: WW was just a better game, it had charm, it was unique and beautiful to look at, it had fun elements like the sneaking stuff, and it had the best music in any Zelda game. Exactly. WW had way more charm, character than TP. More thought went into making WW and there were far more fun elements in WW. Not to mention the beautiful visuals. Add in those couple of missing temples + tweak the triforce collecting thing and the game would have been a masterpiece.
Eddage Posted May 29, 2007 Posted May 29, 2007 I'd agree that Wind Waker's side quests are better than Twilight Princess's, however I find TP's main quest a hell of a lot better than WW's and because of this I'd say that TP is the better game. For me the sailing just got annoying and that damn Trifoce hunt practically killed the game for me, in fact it did kill the game for me - I stopped playing it and never went back to it!
darksnowman Posted May 29, 2007 Posted May 29, 2007 I take it no one else thinks Ocarina of Time is put on a bit too high of a pedestel?? I mean, great for its time and all - but it had its boring parts, lets face it. I disliked that extra trekking that you had to do in that Temple mentioned - going and doing something as a child was just blatantly stretching the game... and as a wee teenager myself, I could even see that was what they were doing. It doesnt matter that Majora's Mask is so "old." I mean, we still hark back to Mario 64 and GoldenEye, heck even the 2D Marios are apparently yet to be surpassed depending on who you listen to. So theres little point in saying that because time has passed, games are automatically better. Twilight Princess was, and is, a great game. More than 8.8 Great. It too has its short comings - the biggest of which is the very existence of OoT. But thats exactly what the game aspired to be - a classic Zelda adventure, and you cant argue that all the typical Zelda elements are present and correct. If you're looking for a reinvention of the series, then just wait for the next game, isnt it promised to be just that? And one more thing, there was absolute outrage about Wind Waker being cartoony, so Nintendo set about making Twilight Princess the game it is. They took a step back towards an OoT style game to appease the fans that moaned and yapped about WW. But hey, the grass is always greener eh.
That Guy Posted May 29, 2007 Posted May 29, 2007 Finished the Sky temple now. Was annoying in parts but was still quite good. Tomorrow I will finally finish this game. At 39 hours right now.
Mr_Aonuma Posted May 29, 2007 Posted May 29, 2007 i dont know what it is about TP that i dont like to be honnest, it is abit boring in some stages of the game, but its more than that. I think just the thought of having to sail open and uncharted seas not knowing what ull discover at sea or on the tiny islands is somehow more rewarding than running around hyrule on a horse. The whole adventure aspect in WW is so much more refined than Tp imo, and yet remains very suttle.
Anolis E Posted May 29, 2007 Posted May 29, 2007 motion2000 said: I'm exactly the same. Wind Waker I couldn't put down and there was lots of things to do side-quest wise. I can't understand how people spend any more than 40 hours on this game, unless they like walking around Hyrule aimlessly. There just isn't anything to do! Played around 97 hours before I finished it and I've even recently started over again... I felt there was enough to do in those 97 hours. motion2000 said: Yes, rollgoal and fishing are unbelievably exciting. What else... umm, struggling to find anything apart from bugs/poe collecting. There was snowboarding (which was pretty awesome in my opinion), this flight game at lake hylia and fishing was indeed quite cool (spent quite some time with that).
motion Posted May 29, 2007 Posted May 29, 2007 Snowboarding? Boring course, same old same old each time. Cool the first time but apart from that. Flight game was ok but again, it doesn't have much replay value Fishing? zzzzzzzzzzz Anolis E said: Played around 97 hours before I finished it and I've even recently started over again... I felt there was enough to do in those 97 hours. 97 hours?? There's enough to do in TP for 97 hours?? Yeah if you spend 20 of those hours fishing, 30 collecting hearts and 7 playing rollgoal. Or walk at slugs pace. That Guy said: Finished the Sky temple now. Was annoying in parts but was still quite good. Tomorrow I will finally finish this game. At 39 hours right now. The sky temple was crap I found. A filler temple, which is a shame because the build up to it was quite good. The one after the sky temple is far better, if way too short. Raw said: I'd agree that Wind Waker's side quests are better than Twilight Princess's, however I find TP's main quest a hell of a lot better than WW's and because of this I'd say that TP is the better game. I disagree personally. I found TP's story one giant mess. The final boss seemed to be an afterthought, thrown in with no real purpose. The sub boss was ok until you got to his character development in the penultimate temple. There was no sense of danger in the entire game once the Twilight had left Hyrule, and after the half way point in the game, it all went downhill. Raw said: For me the sailing just got annoying and that damn Trifoce hunt practically killed the game for me, in fact it did kill the game for me - I stopped playing it and never went back to it! It's a shame because the final dungeon and end sequence after the Triforce collecting is awesome. Another point that WW has on TP, the final dungeon in WW is breathtakingly done. The final dungeon in TP was similar to the rest of the game, rushed. darksnowman said: I take it no one else thinks Ocarina of Time is put on a bit too high of a pedestel?? I mean, great for its time and all - but it had its boring parts, lets face it. I disliked that extra trekking that you had to do in that Temple mentioned - going and doing something as a child was just blatantly stretching the game... and as a wee teenager myself, I could even see that was what they were doing. I just found the story was a lot more exciting, Hyrule itself was nicer. Zora's Domain and Death Mountain had character. They were actually domains, as opposed to a waterfall and royal chamber and a room where they wrestle as in TP. Songs were a stroke of genius. Characters were better. The temples were more fun. The game was as long as TP, if not longer. There was more magic... darksnowman said: It doesnt matter that Majora's Mask is so "old." I mean, we still hark back to Mario 64 and GoldenEye, heck even the 2D Marios are apparently yet to be surpassed depending on who you listen to. So theres little point in saying that because time has passed, games are automatically better. I didn't mean a newer game is automatically better. I mean the number of features (in this case side-quests), you would expect to go up as a new game in the series is released. TP is the second game after Majora's Mask yet has half the number of sidequests (a feature that's always been key to Zelda's success) darksnowman said: Twilight Princess was, and is, a great game. More than 8.8 Great. It too has its short comings - the biggest of which is the very existence of OoT. But thats exactly what the game aspired to be - a classic Zelda adventure, and you cant argue that all the typical Zelda elements are present and correct. I would give TP a 10/10 as a standalone game. But as a Zelda game, 8.8, no higher. darksnowman said: And one more thing, there was absolute outrage about Wind Waker being cartoony, so Nintendo set about making Twilight Princess the game it is. They took a step back towards an OoT style game to appease the fans that moaned and yapped about WW. But hey, the grass is always greener eh. I agree with this, I was outraged by the way WW was revealed at first, but once I played it, I fell in love. I think TP's visuals are very bland to be honest. Compare the Forest Haven in WW to the Forest Temple in TP. Hell even the Forest Temple in OOT looked fresher than the dullness of the TP version.
Hellfire Posted May 29, 2007 Posted May 29, 2007 Yeah, cause sailing around in WW looking for maps was incredibely exciting and always different. Bah, I'm out it's useless arguing with you.
triforce_keeper Posted May 29, 2007 Posted May 29, 2007 Here is my opinion.... I agree with motion on some parts. OOT had magic, so much magic. It made the game in my opinion, the scale of the game was massive, the music, the fighting, the temples, even the god damn beautiful characters were so magical! In my eyes there is still a game yet to overcome that feeling of playing OOT. While playing TP, I didn't get much of the same feeling, the part which nearly made me cry with happiness was the bit Reveal hidden contents when you go into Hyrule Castle (the end) and that music plays from OOT now THAT was magical! It sent so many memories rushing back from when I was first playing OOT, it was just amazing. As for the game itself, it is a brilliant game, one of the best games I have ever played. But I did feel the last half of the game was rushed. Temples got shorter, game play was rushed. Ruined it alot. Also in the game, it felt like you couldn't explore the vast world much, it seemed like you were being forced forward, too carry on with the game, which didn't appeal to me very much. Now onto WW, one word springs to mind, Fresh. It was so Fresh, a superb new look on a Zelda game, looked fantastic! Also with the great music it had, the magic was there. But not all through, the sailing was great for the first hour or so, then after that it became quite boring. Although discovering new islands and towns was fantastic! It was just so different, that it worked. So in all I think OOT comes out on top, purely because it has magic right the way through. Then WW for its fresh take and nice to look at. Then finally TP, I know it is a superb game, but to be a true Zelda game it needs that Zelda magic, that feel, I didn't get this, although this game comes very high on my favourite games of all time.
Zell Posted May 29, 2007 Posted May 29, 2007 I'd say that the things that TP beats WW on are: a) The dungeons - WW dungeons were far too easy, TP were more challenging and were much more imaginative. b) Sword Fighting - the combat in WW was piss easy, just wait for that next parry. TP had a few harder enemies and ou had to actually fight them. c) Main quest - nice and lengthy in TP, pretty short in wind waker.
motion Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 Hellfire said: Yeah, cause sailing around in WW looking for maps was incredibely exciting and always different.Bah, I'm out it's useless arguing with you. Sailing was annoying, that's why they included the warp system. Still, there was something to do on every island. Better than f-ing rollgoal. triforce_keeper said: I agree with motion on some parts. OOT had magic, so much magic. It made the game in my opinion, the scale of the game was massive, the music, the fighting, the temples, even the god damn beautiful characters were so magical! Well said. triforce_keeper said: While playing TP, I didn't get much of the same feeling, the part which nearly made me cry with happiness was the bit Reveal hidden contents when you go into Hyrule Castle (the end) and that music plays from OOT now THAT was magical! It sent so many memories rushing back from when I was first playing OOT, it was just amazing. Ironic how one of the most magical bits in TP was because it reminded people of OOT. triforce_keeper said: As for the game itself, it is a brilliant game, one of the best games I have ever played. But I did feel the last half of the game was rushed. Temples got shorter, game play was rushed. Ruined it alot. I've been saying the second half of the game was rushed for months mate. You just get laughed at for saying that by most people, even though it's blatantly true. triforce_keeper said: Now onto WW, one word springs to mind, Fresh. It was so Fresh, a superb new look on a Zelda game, looked fantastic! Also with the great music it had, the magic was there. But not all through, the sailing was great for the first hour or so, then after that it became quite boring. Although discovering new islands and towns was fantastic! It was just so different, that it worked. Exactly. Just like MM. WW was very 'fresh'. Exactly what the Zelda series needed. TP tried to mask it's blandness and tired dynamic with realistic visuals and a new plot device, but at it's core, it's Ocarina of Time Lite. triforce_keeper said: So in all I think OOT comes out on top, purely because it has magic right the way through. Then WW for its fresh take and nice to look at. Then finally TP, I know it is a superb game, but to be a true Zelda game it needs that Zelda magic, that feel, I didn't get this, although this game comes very high on my favourite games of all time. Agree with this as well, though would put MM on level pegging with OOT. TP was a great game don't get me wrong, just WAAAYY too over-hyped and as a hardcore Zelda fan, a huge disappointment. Lacking in magic, character, music, structure and 'Zelda-ness'. Shame because Midna was superb. Zell said: I'd say that the things that TP beats WW on are: a) The dungeons - WW dungeons were far too easy, TP were more challenging and were much more imaginative. I sort of disagree here. I think the imagination behind a few of the TP dungeons (Arbiter's Ground, Snowpeak Mansion and Palace of Twilight) was spot on but the execution was lacking. City in the Sky could have been renamed 'Find the next clawshot symbol'. Temple of time was just too linear and easy. Forest Temple was dull. Lakebed temple was dull. Palace of Twilight was short and repetitive. Contrast that with the Forest Haven in WW, floating everywhere using the leaf, destroying the seeds on the doors, using the leaf to blow wind onto the proppeler thing to move ahead... Or how about the Wind Temple, using Medlii to fly accross rooms and bounce light around the temple. City of the Gods, using the Command melody to get further and ahead and be 'tested' by the gods. The awesomeness of Dragon Roost, where you could actually feel the heat wherever you went. Using the iron boots in the Earth temple, not to mention using the fire and ice arrows to get in. I think the idea behind the TP temples is fantastic, but the execution just isn't there. How magic did all those temples feel in WW, compared to the simple, room by room nature of TP. Yes the WW ones were easier, but they were more fun. Zell said: b) Sword Fighting - the combat in WW was piss easy, just wait for that next parry. TP had a few harder enemies and ou had to actually fight them. Agree here, but a lot of the controls (climbing/running) were very buggy in TP. Not to mention the camera. But sword fighting in TP + hidden skills were awesome. Zell said: c) Main quest - nice and lengthy in TP, pretty short in wind waker. Meh, length wise I would have said they were the same. WW had more structure, a better story, felt less rushed. Just thinking back to sneaking into the bomb shop to listen in on the pirates and find out the password. Brilliant! That's what made WW so special. Nowt like that in TP.
triforce_keeper Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 Quote Agree with this as well, though would put MM on level pegging with OOT. TP was a great game don't get me wrong, just WAAAYY too over-hyped and as a hardcore Zelda fan, a huge disappointment. Lacking in magic, character, music, structure and 'Zelda-ness'. Shame because Midna was superb. I didn't really like MM that much, the time system was stupid in my opinion, never completed it, but would really like to, might boot it up sometime this week. I agree about TP there, they just seemed to miss the small but big impacts in the game, and yeah Midna was great, she was way better than Navi in my opinion. Quote City in the Sky could have been renamed 'Find the next clawshot symbol'. Temple of time was just too linear and easy. Forest Temple was dull. Lakebed temple was dull. Palace of Twilight was short and repetitive. Contrast that with the Forest Haven in WW, floating everywhere using the leaf, destroying the seeds on the doors, using the leaf to blow wind onto the proppeler thing to move ahead... Or how about the Wind Temple, using Medlii to fly accross rooms and bounce light around the temple. City of the Gods, using the Command melody to get further and ahead and be 'tested' by the gods. The awesomeness of Dragon Roost, where you could actually feel the heat wherever you went. Using the iron boots in the Earth temple, not to mention using the fire and ice arrows to get in. I think the idea behind the TP temples is fantastic, but the execution just isn't there. How magic did all those temples feel in WW, compared to the simple, room by room nature of TP. Yes the WW ones were easier, but they were more fun. Althout I did enjoy most of the Temples in TP i think your right, they seem to have missed the whole point of what makes the temples unique to one another, other than using different items in them. Quote Meh, length wise I would have said they were the same. WW had more structure, a better story, felt less rushed. I think if you compared the main stories only then TP would take alot longer to complete than WW, but there is so much freedom in WW that if you compared the full games WW is the longer game, by far.
Anolis E Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 motion2000 said: Snowboarding? Boring course, same old same old each time. Cool the first time but apart from that. It's not like I went snowboarding for 10 hours. It's a *mini* game and quite a good one at that. It's cool enough to come back to again now and then. motion2000 said: 97 hours?? There's enough to do in TP for 97 hours?? Yeah if you spend 20 of those hours fishing, 30 collecting hearts and 7 playing rollgoal. Or walk at slugs pace. I simply *took my time*. I didn't make it into a contest to try and finish the game as quickly as possible. I just wanted to enjoy it. Sometimes I'd just walk around a little to try and find new stuff. And more often than not, I actually did find new things to do. For instance, when I first found out there were special digging spots that led to caves I did another round of Hyrule to try and find all of them. motion2000 said: The sky temple was crap I found. A filler temple, which is a shame because the build up to it was quite good. The one after the sky temple is far better, if way too short. I don't really see what's so bad about it. It was one of the biggest (and hardest, in my opinion) temples of the game.
motion Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 Anolis E said: I don't really see what's so bad about it. It was one of the biggest (and hardest, in my opinion) temples of the game. - The only skill needed is sight. Ie, find the next hookshot grab. Conveniently placed ones I might add. The Ooccoo of course use clawshots all the time. But yeah, that's pretty much all you have to do throughout the entire temple. - Big but not particularly interesting, every room being similar to the last. - Horrible horrible "music" - We're supposed to believe that that's a city for the Ooccoo? - Bit of a let down, item wise. Just dull and badly thought out really. When I found out there was to be a sky temple I got all excited and ended up being let down with the actual dungeon when I got there. Only memorable bit was the final boss which was fantastic. That's all in my opinion.
Zell Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 motion2000 said: - The only skill needed is sight. Ie, find the next hookshot grab. Conveniently placed ones I might add. The Ooccoo of course use clawshots all the time. But yeah, that's pretty much all you have to do throughout the entire temple.- Big but not particularly interesting, every room being similar to the last. - Horrible horrible "music" - We're supposed to believe that that's a city for the Ooccoo? - Bit of a let down, item wise. Just dull and badly thought out really. When I found out there was to be a sky temple I got all excited and ended up being let down with the actual dungeon when I got there. Only memorable bit was the final boss which was fantastic. That's all in my opinion. I only remember one room where it was "find the next clawshot point" as you bluntly put it. The first half of the temple was mainly wind puzzles, you didn't even get the double clawshots till about two thirds of the way through. My memory is pretty hazy but I don't remember a plain dungeon where every room was the same. Your four points are pretty weak - horrible music, what we're supposed to think and a "bit of a let down item wise" hardly determines the worth of the dungeon. I personally thought it was the best dungeon, although it's quite clear that you and I have different ideas of what is a good dungeon.
Goron_3 Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 I haven't completed TP but I got to the Ice dungeon, and imo WW is a far better game (despite being shorter). The music and atmosphere in TP was poor, in comparism to the Wind Waker which had so much charm and really made you feel like a hero. Whether it was leaving Outset island for the first time and waving goodbye to granny (dear god how sad was that ) or sailing around during a storm; i always felt like I was on an adventure. I felt that I was the one who had to save Hyrule. yes, I got this feeling with TP, but it kinda felt like a poorer version of OoT. Next up, the graphics. TP looks alright (Goron mines looks cool) but tbh...MEH! I'd seen a lot better on other consoles at that point so i wasn't visually impressed. Wind Waker was just so much fresher; it was new and looked beautiful. it was one of those games who's graphics and music you look back on and have to say 'wow i underrated that'. Wind Waker had one fault; it was too easy. The dungeons were massive but too easy; I never really felt threatened. I didn't mind the triforce quest but come on, a final dungeon never harmed anyone....
UziT Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 Goron_3 said: I haven't completed TP but I got to the Ice dungeon, and imo WW is a far better game (despite being shorter). The music and atmosphere in TP was poor, in comparism to the Wind Waker which had so much charm and really made you feel like a hero. Whether it was leaving Outset island for the first time and waving goodbye to granny (dear god how sad was that ) or sailing around during a storm; i always felt like I was on an adventure. I felt that I was the one who had to save Hyrule. yes, I got this feeling with TP, but it kinda felt like a poorer version of OoT. Next up, the graphics. TP looks alright (Goron mines looks cool) but tbh...MEH! I'd seen a lot better on other consoles at that point so i wasn't visually impressed. Wind Waker was just so much fresher; it was new and looked beautiful. it was one of those games who's graphics and music you look back on and have to say 'wow i underrated that'. Wind Waker had one fault; it was too easy. The dungeons were massive but too easy; I never really felt threatened. I didn't mind the triforce quest but come on, a final dungeon never harmed anyone.... True man, WW had me wanting to play more, even if I was stuck on some part in a dungeon. TP I got to Zora's Domain and i aint playe ut for two weeks now...
Recommended Posts