Anime and manga discussion

[Beardy Man]

wtf?! get a life! why waste time with "internet arguments"? he didn't enjoy it as much, didn't embraced the whole "savoir-faire"...less good for him. don't bother others with this shit...

[Mundi]

He can't. If you say you you think something isn't that wonderful, he will keep telling you it is until you share his opinion. Apparently I'm not allowed to say it's watchable even if I don't think it's a masterpiece.

 

Don't you love being told your opinion is wrong.

 

He´s not saying your opinion is wrong, just what you say about the quality of the show is wrong.

 

And I'm still waiting to hear what "real works of television and film" I need to watch.

 

I´m curious about that.

[Sheikah]

He´s not saying your opinion is wrong, just what you say about the quality of the show is wrong.

Actually, he is. How much someone enjoys a show is down to someone's opinion. If I thought it was good enough to say it's quite watchable I shouldn't be subjected to someone telling me I am wrong because he knows more than me. That is incredibly demeaning.

 

What is painstakingly obvious is that you did not understand it. Taking into consideration your enfatuation with Bleach, I'd say it's immaturity.

 

Side with those people, and they will bring you down with them. :p Let's not fuel the trolls.

[Oxigen_Waste]

OW, I'd like to see you make one argument that doesn't involve ad homimnems and/or "it's better because I say it is and I know what I'm talking about".

 

Pretty much, yeah. It's all about dettaching yourself from your opinion and observing things neutrally. You see, as much as I hate Lone Wolf & Cub, it is indeed a fucking masterpiece, magnum opus, visionary work and so on and so on. I don't like it, but I can acknowledge it's worth. That's what I'm all about, inherent quality, not opinions.

And grunchie, god damnit, no matter how much you like Beyblade, there is no opinion that can change the fact that it's a bad anime. You can enjoy it all you want, it's still bad. The same can be said for Monster, or Mushishi... no matter how much you may hate it or not like it, it doesn't change the fact that it's good. Monster is better than Beyblade. That is a fact. No opinion in the world can change that. Ever. Opinion doesn't count for shit except personal enjoyment. Now, I don't want him to say that he liked Monster, I just want him to admit that it's that good. Because it is.

 

He can't. If you say you you think something isn't that wonderful, he will keep telling you it is until you share his opinion. Apparently I'm not allowed to say it's watchable even if I don't think it's a masterpiece.

 

Don't you love being told your opinion is wrong.

 

Yeah, that's my thing. It's annoying, I know... but at least I answer constructively and I have a point to make. I don't moan. And when I make a claim, I explain it... wich, as Mundi pointed out so very well, you don't do. I'm still waiting for an answer that actually has something to say, as opposed to "itsmyopinionitsmyopinionitsmyopinionitsmyopinionitsmyopinion".

 

wtf?! get a life! why waste time with "internet arguments"? he didn't enjoy it as much, didn't embraced the whole "savoir-faire"...less good for him. don't bother others with this shit...

 

This is what the Don meant when he said I tend to be an asshole in the forums.

 

Actually, he is. How much someone enjoys a show is down to someone's opinion. If I thought it was good enough to say it's quite watchable I shouldn't be subjected to someone telling me I am wrong because he knows more than me. That is incredibly demeaning.

 

It's also quite demeaning to see art savaged by the culturally ignorant. You can have your opinion all you want... but if you're gonna say something, be prepared to back it up. Anyway, this is a forum... if you're not expecting to get a reply, why post at all?

 

 

Side with those people, and they will bring you down with them. :p Let's not fuel the trolls.

 

Oh my god!!! He called me a troll!!! Grunchie, give him an inffraction for insulting me!

 

Sheikah fainted!

7421 exp. points! Level up!

Sheikah dropped Headinbutt +7.

 

I is win teh argument!!!!111

 

[Sheikah]

Truly astounding...

 

You obviously have no value for other people's opinions, unless they are the same as your own. You will keep arguing on and on until you feel like you have 'won'.

 

I will say that it is quite disgusting for you to claim I am immature and culturally ignorant solely from saying I don't find Monster a masterpiece.

[EchoDesiato]

A masterpiece? You need to watch some real works of television and film. :p It's good but definitely not the best.

 

I like the overall theme and the way it is presented, but undoubtedly some of the characters are not that interesting, and the story can be a bit on and off. At times it is quite slow paced and dull, even if there are some very good parts.

 

This post dissappoints me almost as much as the delay of No More Heroes.

[Sheikah]

Yeh, it's definitely an anime that some like more than others. Not something that everyone will think is the best thing ever (Oxigen_Waste).

[Oxigen_Waste]

Truly astounding...

 

You obviously have no value for other people's opinions, unless they are the same as your own. You will keep arguing on and on until you feel like you have 'won'.

 

I have no value for any opinions, mine included. I'm a sucker for neutral interpretation. I think I'd be a fine critic.

 

I keep on arguing until... nothing. I just keep on doing it. "winning" would mean I feel accomplished... I don't want that... then I'd get cocky. I just like arguing. Is it such a crime??

 

I will say that it is quite disgusting for you to claim I am immature and culturally ignorant solely from saying I don't find Monster a masterpiece.

 

Plus, you won't admit to Bleach's obvious faults. That makes two strikes.

 

And if it disgusts you so much, well then, show me I'm wrong.

 

 

ALSO:

 

I'm still waiting for that pretty little list of "real works of television and film" that I should watch, amigo.

[Mundi]

Truly astounding...

 

You obviously have no value for other people's opinions, unless they are the same as your own. You will keep arguing on and on until you feel like you have 'won'.

 

I will say that it is quite disgusting for you to claim I am immature and culturally ignorant solely from saying I don't find Monster a masterpiece.

 

Stop victimizing yourself... you can´t expect that when you say Monster is watchable right after a couple of people call it a masterpiece that your not gonna get negative replies.

If you don´t like people challenging your posts either skip the post or ignore the person answering you.

[Meta_Omega]

a masterpiece of contemporary modernism

 

Because art is perfectly objective, right?

 

Don't worry, I'm also of the opinion that there's a difference between things that are good and things that one likes, it's just that some things are harder to define as good than others. Like art. Which movies, and therefore anime, are.

[Oxigen_Waste]

Yeh, it's definitely an anime that some like more than others. Not something that everyone will think is the best thing ever (Oxigen_Waste).

 

Oh fucking hell... I don't think it's the best thing ever. But the fact is... it's up there on the top 5. On my book, it'd be ranked 8. But it IS top 5. What you apparently don't get is that opinion is completely unrelated to that. I don't care about your "opinion", nor do I care about mine, that's something that will only influentiate my personal enjoyment. Quality is not related to opinion. Now get of your low horse and if you're gonna answer, at least come up with some substance for your replies! Why do you think it's watchable? Give me proper discussion, I don't want to keep hearing that my arguing sucks every post you make... STATE YOUR POINT! Make some kind of elaborate or constructive response!

[Sheikah]

Sorry about the long post guys, but here goes:

Stop victimizing yourself... you can´t expect that when you say Monster is watchable right after a couple of people call it a masterpiece that your not gonna get negative replies.

If you don´t like people challenging your posts either skip the post or ignore the person answering you.

 

For a start, no one had said it was a masterpiece before my initial post.

 

Right, it's obvious you are clearly sticking up for Oxigen_Waste or just for other reasons have some grudge against me. Everyone else here has sussed that O_W is being arrogant and not understanding that any anime is interpreted differently by people - it is not wrong to say an anime is quite watchable if that is what I genuinely believed, as well as the word 'masterpiece' being ultimately an opinion. It is not a factual term like "liquid" or "gas"; it is a term used to describe something that you believe. If something could be definitively categorised as a masterpiece, Monster doesn't even seem to have that many 'awards' (2 displayed on Wikipedia, and one of the awards has even given first place one year to Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles >_>).

 

Please do not try and piss me off Mundi, O_W is clearly just trying to rattle people's cages by deliberately calling them on anything he disagrees with. Why the hell can't people have different views about things? He is an unbelievable fascist.

 

To be told by someone that I am wrong about how I feel is ridiculous. Why? Because that person cannot speak for everyone. If I watch it, and I find it 'quite watchable', then it is absolutely 100% wrong to say that it is any more than that for me. "Quite watchable" was my evaluation after watching it - my evaluation. I'm pretty annoyed that someone would tell me that I am wrong about my own feelings.

 

Oh fucking hell... I don't think it's the best thing ever. But the fact is... it's up there on the top 5.

 

Top 5 of what?

 

Blast...

[Oxigen_Waste]

Because art is perfectly objective, right?

 

Don't worry, I'm also of the opinion that there's a difference between things that are good and things that one likes, it's just that some things are harder to define as good than others. Like art. Which movies, and therefore anime, are.

 

Right you are, my friend, right you are. That would be because of art's freedom of interpretation. Still, I stand by my point.

[Guest Stefkov]

Hang on. Who hates Mushishi?

[EchoDesiato]

Sheikah is wrong, in my opinion. See what I did there?

[Sheikah]

Sheikah is wrong, in my opinion. See what I did there?

So what do you propose, we all agree that Monster is the best anime ever, a masterpiece; ie. all share the opinion of Oxigen_Waste? Or are people allowed to think differently?

 

Edit: You will notice I have said that I like Monster a lot, and I said "quite watchable" as a compliment. Would you say a rubbish anime is quite watchable? This is all about not thinking it is the best thing since sliced bread.

[Oxigen_Waste]

Sorry about the long post guys, but here goes:

 

 

For a start, no one had said it was a masterpiece before my initial post.

 

Right, it's obvious you are clearly sticking up for Oxigen_Waste or just for other reasons have some grudge against me. Everyone else here has sussed that O_W is being arrogant and not understanding that any anime is interpreted differently by people - it is not wrong to say an anime is quite watchable if that is what I genuinely believed, as well as the word 'masterpiece' being ultimately an opinion. It is not a factual term like "liquid" or "gas"; it is a term used to describe something that you believe. If something could be definitively categorised as a masterpiece, Monster doesn't even seem to have that many 'awards' (2 displayed on Wikipedia, and one of the awards has even given first place one year to Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles >_>).

 

Please do not try and piss me off Mundi, O_W is clearly just trying to rattle people's cages by deliberately calling them on anything he disagrees with. Why the hell can't people have different views about things? He is an unbelievable fascist.

 

To be told by someone that I am wrong about how I feel is ridiculous. Why? Because that person cannot speak for everyone. If I watch it, and I find it 'quite watchable', then it is absolutely 100% wrong to say that it is any more than that for me. "Quite watchable" was my evaluation after watching it - my evaluation. I'm pretty annoyed that someone would tell me that I am wrong about my own feelings.

 

Blast...

 

Oh dear god. I'm a fascist?

 

Shows how much you've been paying attention to what I said...

 

You can have your opinion, I have mine. It's fine! It's ok, we can all live the way we want. The thing is, I do not expect you to change your opinion!!! I merely expect you to acknowledge that monster is... indeed... a masterpiece. Let's put it this way:

 

A - Klaxons suck. They're a terrible band.

B - I love them.

 

A - fact

B - opinion

 

I truly do love Klaxons. I really do. That doesn't change the fact that they're an awfull band.

 

Example 2:

 

A - Arcade Fire are one of the best bands of the decade.

B - I hate Arcade fire.

 

I really do hate them. But I know that they're good. That much is fact. And I can see that they're good. I just don't like them.

 

You see... I am, indeed, extremelly liberal. I am of the opinion that anyone can do what they want when they want how they want. However... even if you like eating shit... it's still shit. What I don't like... is when people try to deny fact in order to be comfortable with their own bad taste. Why can't people admit they have a bad taste.

 

So let's look at things now... you won't admit to your own bad taste, nor do you admit that people question your opinion. You refuse to see things for what they are and insist on seeing them from your perspective alone. You cannot detach reality from yourself, and expect people to respect you for ignoring reality. And yet... I'm the one who's a fascist?

Edited December 6, 2013 by Ashley

[EchoDesiato]

So what do you propose, we all agree that Monster is the best anime ever, a masterpiece; ie. all share the opinion of Oxigen_Waste? Or are people allowed to think differently?

 

Edit: You will notice I have said that I like Monster a lot, and I said "quite watchable" as a compliment. Would you say a rubbish anime is quite watchable? This is all about not thinking it is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

I'd say "like it a lot" isn't the same as "quite watchable". If you had said you liked it a lot this arguement probably wouldn't have started. When you say "quite watchable" I feel that you don't acknowledge that Monster is a really good anime.

[Sheikah]

I'd say "like it a lot" isn't the same as "quite watchable". If you had said you liked it a lot this arguement probably wouldn't have started. When you say "quite watchable" I feel that you don't acknowledge that Monster is a really good anime.

 

Would it have been a problem if I hadn't perceived it as quite so great? People judge themselves the greatness of animes, I think it's important that people stop trying to tell each other how good things are. It's like those gimps who go around telling you that ET is the best film ever.

 

FYI this argument is basically O_W saying that I am culturally ignorant and immature because I simply said it's quite watchable, despite several pages back in the topic saying that I was watching Monster and enjoying it a lot. =D

[Oxigen_Waste]

Would it have been a problem if I hadn't perceived it as quite so great? People judge themselves the greatness of animes, I think it's important that people stop trying to tell each other how good things are. It's like those gimps who go around telling you that ET is the best film ever.

 

FYI this argument is basically O_W saying that I am culturally ignorant and immature because I simply said it's quite watchable, despite several pages back in the topic saying that I was watching Monster and enjoying it a lot. =D

 

Just because you seem to have missed it, I'll quote it:

 

Oh dear god. I'm a fascist?

 

Shows how much you've been paying attention to what I said...

 

You can have your opinion, I have mine. It's fine! It's ok, we can all live the way we want. The thing is, I do not expect you to change your opinion!!! I merely expect you to acknowledge that monster is... indeed... a masterpiece. Let's put it this way:

 

A - Klaxons suck. They're a terrible band.

B - I love them.

 

A - fact

B - opinion

 

I truly do love Klaxons. I really do. That doesn't change the fact that they're an awfull band.

 

Example 2:

 

A - Arcade Fire are one of the best bands of the decade.

B - I hate Arcade fire.

 

I really do hate them. But I know that they're good. That much is fact. And I can see that they're good. I just don't like them.

 

You see... I am, indeed, extremelly liberal. I am of the opinion that anyone can do what they want when they want how they want. However... even if you like eating shit... it's still shit. What I don't like... is when people try to deny fact in order to be comfortable with their own bad taste. Why can't people admit they have a bad taste.

 

I have a bad taste. Me, Oxigen_Waste, José Guilherme Rapazote Flores Simões Saraiva, I have a bad taste.

So let's look at things now... you won't admit to your own bad taste, nor do you admit that people question your opinion. You refuse to see things for what they are and insist on seeing them from your perspective alone. You cannot detach reality from yourself, and expect people to respect you for ignoring reality. And yet... I'm the one who's a fascist?

 

 

ALSO:

 

Top 5 of what?

 

Blast...

 

Monster

Death Note

Mushishi

Neon Genesis Evangelion

Fullmetal Alchemist

Cowboy Bebop

GTO

 

These are the best anime series ever made. Fact. I'm missing some and it's higly relative, I know... but that's about all I can think of, right about now.

 

Now, here's MY top 5:

 

1 - Mushishi

2 - Serial Experiments Lain

3 - Evangelion

4 - FLCL

5 - Trigun

 

Interesting to see how they differ. Like I said... Opinion and quality are different subjects. What I like and what is... are different matters.

[Ellmeister]

whats so bad about the klaxons?

 

I really should get to watching Death Note, everyone talks about how great it is.

[Happenstance]

Monster

Death Note

Mushishi

Neon Genesis Evangelion

Fullmetal Alchemist

Cowboy Bebop

GTO

 

These are the best anime series ever made. Fact. I'm missing some and it's higly relative, I know... but that's about all I can think of, right about now.

 

I dont really wanna get involved with this but I hate the word FACT used on the net so ive gotta know, how is it a fact?

[EchoDesiato]

Just because you seem to have missed it, I'll quote it:

 

 

 

 

ALSO:

 

 

 

Monster

Death Note

Mushishi

Neon Genesis Evangelion

Fullmetal Alchemist

Cowboy Bebop

GTO

 

These are the best anime series ever made. Fact. I'm missing some and it's higly relative, I know... but that's about all I can think of, right about now.

 

Oh yes, awesome. I'm good at choosing which anime to download. I'm watching that one after I finish Lain.

[Sheikah]

 

Monster

Death Note

Mushishi

Neon Genesis Evangelion

Fullmetal Alchemist

Cowboy Bebop

GTO

 

These are the best anime series ever made. Fact.

Fact? That's it, fuck it. Can't be arsed with your line of thought anymore. Bye.

[Oxigen_Waste]

I dont really wanna get involved with this but I hate the word FACT used on the net so ive gotta know, how is it a fact?

 

Well, it's not set in stone or anything, but you get my drift...

 

I'm aware of the 100% tax of relativity.