mario114 Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 The Pope quoted someone from the 13th century Muslims are rioting now lol I blame the news for taking the qoute out of context and showing to the whole world. What next someone qoutes stalin/hitler in a history lesson and gets called a Nazi/communist.
The fish Posted September 15, 2006 Author Posted September 15, 2006 Here's one-according to the Koran, anyone who is not a Muslim is worth less than a dog. ... Next time I see a male Muslim in Luton going on about how this country has a harsh, oppressive regieme(sp?), or how the British people are evil, or how are the victems of the london bomb attacks responsible for the war in the middle east is going on, they will have apporxamatly 6 seconds left to be connected with there balls... Why? Because if this country was a harsh, oppressive regieme then anyone saying so would be dead, how the fuck am I evil, and how the fuck is it the fault of Mr. A from somewheresville's, UK, that Bush is a fucktard?
The Bard Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 Here's one-according to the Koran, anyone who is not a Muslim is worth less than a dog. Not True, specifically because I have read the Quran many times through, as I used to be a muslim myself, that isn't the case, it says that nowhere, you should look up these references before you print them as fact. I'm not defending Islam or religion, I just think it's ridiculous that you say how it's unfair that (some) Muslims have unfounded assumptions about your country and it's inhabitants, and yet you're willing to post this load of contrived rubbish at a moments notice. Non muslims are treated as normal citizens are, the only difference being that they have to pay taxes (whereas it mandates that muslim citizens donate AT LEAST 2.5% of their yearly earnings, this isn't counted as tax ) I spit upon thee!!! =P
The fish Posted September 15, 2006 Author Posted September 15, 2006 Not True, specifically because I have read the Quran many times through, as I used to be a muslim myself, that isn't the case, it says that nowhere, you should look up these references before you print them as fact. I'm not defending Islam or religion, I just think it's ridiculous that you say how it's unfair that (some) Muslims have unfounded assumptions about your country and it's inhabitants, and yet you're willing to post this load of contrived rubbish at a moments notice. It seems I have been reading an incorrect translation then... I think it's stupid that Muslims have unfounded assumptions of THEIR country. They are perfectly welcome to be here, but if they do it Israli-style, by come along and saying "Right, we want to live here, and change the laws to exactly what we want!", then they can fuck off. If you don't like how somewhere is, don't go there trying to change it to how you want it, don't go there. For example, I don't like France (their toilets and them thinking all their food is great especially...), so unless it's to get somewhere else in Europe, or to Normandy, because I find the whole D-day thing very interesting, I don't go there. I don't say "Right I want this food and toilets as apposed to holes in the ground", I just don't go their often.
Mr_Odwin Posted September 16, 2006 Posted September 16, 2006 Non muslims are treated as normal citizens are, the only difference being that they have to pay taxes (whereas it mandates that muslim citizens donate AT LEAST 2.5% of their yearly earnings, this isn't counted as tax ) Can you clarify this? Do Muslims not pay tax on the 2.5% that they earn?
The Bard Posted September 16, 2006 Posted September 16, 2006 Can you clarify this? Do Muslims not pay tax on the 2.5% that they earn? Yeah, it's known as Zakaht, or religious tax if you like, it's 2.5% of their yearly earnings, including savings, and this goes to places that need it most, ie. third world, and developing countries. That is unless the bastards who it's paid to decide to keep it all for themselves.
dabookerman Posted September 16, 2006 Posted September 16, 2006 Yeah, it's known as Zakaht, or religious tax if you like, it's 2.5% of their yearly earnings, including savings, and this goes to places that need it most, ie. third world, and developing countries. That is unless the bastards who it's paid to decide to keep it all for themselves. Yup this is true.
khilafah Posted September 16, 2006 Posted September 16, 2006 the pope shouldnt of made them comments. it was wrong and totally untrue! if he was talking about violence and religion why did he not mention the crusades? what about the spanish inquisition or how the catholic church ignored the plight of the jews from the Nazi's? why did he just mention Islam? Bard why did you leave Islam? makes me feel sad that you left the religion! oh and i suggest everyone to read a book called 'the spread of islam' by T.J. Arnold. you will see that it is myth that Islam was spread by the sword! also can i please clarify that muslims are not trying the change the laws in UK/Europe to sharia! yes we have our own values and we don't support secular laws etc it doesnt mean we are on some crazy crusade to change the goverment etc.
darksnowman Posted September 16, 2006 Posted September 16, 2006 Im afraid Ive only read/ skimmed the first two pages of this and then this fifth page. What would the majority of people be here then? Ive noticed a few posts saying about being atheists but surely the majority of us have to have some concrete beliefs of some sort? Ill keep it brief for now but Im a born again Christian. Thats the Protestant kind, not the Catholic. I go to a Presbyterian Church and Ive lots of friends from Baptist, Brethern, Evangelical, Free Presbyterian, Reformed Presbyterian etc. What do I believe in? Basically that God gave us Jesus to live a perfect life and be the perfect example for us who then died and conquered death. So all we have to do is believe in this and were saved from Gods wrath, through what Jesus endured for us. Simple.
Shino Posted September 16, 2006 Posted September 16, 2006 the pope shouldnt of made them comments. it was wrong and totally untrue! if he was talking about violence and religion why did he not mention the crusades? what about the spanish inquisition or how the catholic church ignored the plight of the jews from the Nazi' Maybe because that happened centuries ago, in a time we like to call the Dark Ages. As for the Nazis it was one nation fighting agaisnt other Christians. why did he just mention Islam? Because it's true, he even didn't said nothing offensive, and yet we see riots with burning flags and western symbols being mocked.
mario114 Posted September 16, 2006 Posted September 16, 2006 I was reminded of all this recently, when I read the edition by Professor Theodore Khoury (Münster) of part of the dialogue carried on-- perhaps in 1391 in the winter barracks near Ankara-- by the erudite Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus and an educated Persian on the subject of Christianity and Islam, and the truth of both. It was probably the emperor himself who set down this dialogue, during the siege of Constantinople between 1394 and 1402; and this would explain why his arguments are given in greater detail than the responses of the learned Persian. The dialogue ranges widely over the structures of faith contained in the Bible and in the Qur'an, and deals especially with the image of God and of man, while necessarily returning repeatedly to the relationship of the three Laws: the Old Testament, the New Testament, and the Qur'an. In this lecture I would like to discuss only one point-- itself rather marginal to the dialogue itself-- which, in the context of the issue of faith and reason, I found interesting and which can serve as the starting-point for my reflections on this issue. In the seventh conversation edited by Professor Khoury, the emperor touches on the theme of the jihad (holy war). The emperor must have known that surah 2, 256 reads: There is no compulsion in religion. It is one of the suras of the early period, when Mohammed was still powerless and under threat. But naturally the emperor also knew the instructions, developed later and recorded in the Quran, concerning holy war. Without descending to details, such as the difference in treatment accorded to those who have the Book and the infidels, he turns to his interlocutor somewhat brusquely with the central question on the relationship between religion and violence in general, in these words: Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached. The emperor goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. God is not pleased by blood, and not acting reasonably is contrary to God's nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats... To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death.... The decisive statement in this argument against violent conversion is this: not to act in accordance with reason is contrary to God's nature. For a full text of the prepared statement go here; http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=46474 This is the Popes speach in full context read it, and tell me if you still think he was wrong...
Shino Posted September 16, 2006 Posted September 16, 2006 I'm watching the news, there's guy saying that the Pope is implying that Islam is connected to violence and that he is wrong. Right after that there's a new showing muslims burning churches and threatening the Vatican.
Haden Posted September 16, 2006 Posted September 16, 2006 The thing about this is. Muslims if they don't like what was said should respond with reason not voilence. Its like saying your religion is voilent to them then they disprove that by attacking catholic churches... I know its not all muslims mainly non european but it is a large majority and I have seen no muslim leaders denounce this hissy fit by a hell of a lot of muslims in North Africa and in the Arab nations.
dabookerman Posted September 16, 2006 Posted September 16, 2006 I'm watching the news, there's guy saying that the Pope is implying that Islam is connected to violence and that he is wrong. Right after that there's a new showing muslims burning churches and threatening the Vatican. Yeah, bomb the vatican the aftermath will be most horrific, world war 3 will start "Nobody bombs the church in my town" All because some muslims love a moan
Fierce_LiNk Posted September 16, 2006 Posted September 16, 2006 I know its not all muslims mainly non european but it is a large majority and I have seen no muslim leaders denounce this hissy fit by a hell of a lot of muslims in North Africa and in the Arab nations. Well, i'm a Muslim, and an admin for a nintendo forum...on the internet? If i denounce it, will that count?
Haden Posted September 16, 2006 Posted September 16, 2006 Well, i'm a Muslim, and an admin for a nintendo forum...on the internet? If i denounce it, will that count? Big time! You saved the day again and reconciled warring religions now just get me a wii and all will be right!
mario114 Posted September 16, 2006 Posted September 16, 2006 I wonder how many Christains will die because of what he sayed, I guessing a lot, in Africain/indeniassia (spelling?) and the middle east but I am also guessing that most will go un-reported.
Fierce_LiNk Posted September 16, 2006 Posted September 16, 2006 Big time! You saved the day again and reconciled warring religions now just get me a wii and all will be right! Nah. But yeah, i can see why so many people are getting annoyed at all these news stories about Muslims. I'm a Muslim, and they're pissing me off, too!
mario114 Posted September 16, 2006 Posted September 16, 2006 News just in Pope says sorry http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5351988.stm
Shino Posted September 16, 2006 Posted September 16, 2006 News just in Pope says sorry http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5351988.stm Great, now we have to watch the news of them dancing and singing in the streets. "ISLAM PWNZ CHRISTIANS!!"
darksnowman Posted September 16, 2006 Posted September 16, 2006 Nah. But yeah, i can see why so many people are getting annoyed at all these news stories about Muslims. I'm a Muslim, and they're pissing me off, too! Uh-oh, he's getting annoyed... you dont wanna see him when he goes all Al-Qaeda and decides to take it out on us!* (*Disclaimer: this is said in the strongest of jest and no one (NO ONE!) should take this as me bashing Muslims.) It cant be nice with all the heat coming down on Muslims, but come on, take a second and step back from the situation. Now have a good long look at it, and while youre here take a wee looksie at your options too. See that wee quiet and criminally overlooked gathering of people who daily take up their personal cross and bare it for their Saviour? Hows about joining them
Haden Posted September 16, 2006 Posted September 16, 2006 Man he just validated their behaviour. He has the Popemobile noone could have hurt him!
Fierce_LiNk Posted September 16, 2006 Posted September 16, 2006 Uh-oh, he's getting annoyed... you dont wanna see him when he goes all Al-Qaeda and decides to take it out on us!* (*Disclaimer: this is said in the strongest of jest and no one (NO ONE!) should take this as me bashing Muslims.)[/Quote] I roffled at that. It cant be nice with all the heat coming down on Muslims, but come on, take a second and step back from the situation. Now have a good long look at it, and while youre here take a wee looksie at your options too. See that wee quiet and criminally overlooked gathering of people who daily take up their personal cross and bare it for their Saviour? Hows about joining them Hmm. Nah.
dabookerman Posted September 16, 2006 Posted September 16, 2006 wait, are we trying to convert fierce link now...what the hell
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