Posted May 24, 2007 I've just been reading some of the stories on RAWK and the whole thing sounds like a complete nightmare. I would have given anything to be there last night. Now I'm glad I wasn't Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 24, 2007 Liverpool fans recieved 17,000 Tickets An Estimated 40,000 where in Athens last night, how many got in I do not know, but their were thousands of fakes and tickets on the black market going to fans...I am not condoning some of our fans but at the same time UEFA knew what would happen, but would much rather see their pockets lined with money, then the safety and protection of supporters. My Dad got home from Athens this morning (He works for LFC) Told me how bad it actually was, and the Greek police would not listen to the staff of Liverpool, instead they just launched tear gas. Same happend at Eindhoven but on a much smaller scale, however I recall my father saying that the police was just the same, but as he said "We can't tell them how to steward their own ground, nor can they ours". But it's saying something about the quality of the security of the fans in England Anyway UEFA Knew about the ticket siutation and have done for weeks, and instead of giving us more tickets, and let us manage the tickets instead of them going on the black market, they don't do anything. The fact of the matter is UEFA fucked up again, The Stadium in Athens is not a football venue and is an Olympic Stadium The security Arrangements were poor The Ticket Allocations were a disgrace It was badly organised (My Dad was ment to fly to Stansted with the club, and catch the bus to Liverpool, and he just simply jumped the plane straight to Liverpool, How did he do that? UEFA were short sighted in their preperations They are just using the very minority of Mis-BeheavingLiverpool fan's to cover up their own mess and did this happen in Istanbul No it didn't Any Chance to Knock the Scousers I suppose? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 24, 2007 You're not doing much to fight the stereotype that the scousers will blame anything and anyone but themselves, there was no excuse for rushing the police and trying to cram into the stadium and people have been unashamedly showing the photocopied tickets they got in with as if it's not their fault in the slightest for getting in the ground with what they knew was a forged ticket! There may still be hope, looks like their could be a Tevez-style investigation over who owns Milans players EDIT: At least some scousers got into the ground no problem Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 24, 2007 You're not doing much to fight the stereotype that the scousers will blame anything and anyone but themselves, there was no excuse for rushing the police and trying to cram into the stadium and people have been unashamedly showing the photocopied tickets they got in with as if it's not their fault in the slightest for getting in the ground with what they knew was a forged ticket! There may still be hope, looks like their could be a Tevez-style investigation over who owns Milans players I agree with you totally, but UEFA knew this was always going to Happen, We Warned them, the club warned them, everyond did. Also, we are discriminated against all around Europe, Los Hooligones the Spanish call the English, wether you support Liverpool, United, Celtic is iirelevant, we are all tared with the same brush, the simple fact is, No One Knows how to Handle British fans apart from British Police. And I think you will find Liverpool FC ha among the best reputation in Europe for their fans nowadays...Just Ask Olympiakos....Real Betis, Barca Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 24, 2007 And I think you will find Liverpool FC ha among the best reputation in Europe for their fans nowadays...Just Ask Olympiakos....Real Betis, Barca I don't know about that like, Celtic went to Seville, pretty much all all of them - no trouble. Chelsea went to Stockholm no storming of the gates no trouble Arsenal went to Copenhagen 94, Paris 2006 - no trouble Man Utd went to Rotterdam and Barcelona - no trouble Boro went to Eindhoven - no trouble Everton went to Rotterdam with a load of celtic in tow and had football matches in the street with rival fans and coppers, no trouble. Liverpool went to Brussels, the bigesst riot in european football history, and Athens, and I've just seen footage on Sky Sports News of liverpool fans mugging each other and stealing tickets, rushing the police trying to get in, displaying photocopied tickets and whinging about how it's the police's fault, uefa's fault, the stadiums fault, probably thatchers fault as well. Quite a lot of other teams seem to have come away from major european matches with their reputations intact. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 24, 2007 I don't know about that like, Celtic went to Seville, pretty much all all of them - no trouble. Chelsea went to Stockholm no storming of the gates no trouble Arsenal went to Copenhagen 94, Paris 2006 - no trouble Man Utd went to Rotterdam and Barcelona - no trouble Boro went to Eindhoven - no trouble Everton went to Rotterdam with a load of celtic in tow and had football matches in the street with rival fans and coppers, no trouble. Liverpool went to Brussels, the bigesst riot in european football history, and Athens, and I've just seen footage on Sky Sports News of liverpool fans mugging each other and stealing tickets, rushing the police trying to get in, displaying photocopied tickets and whinging about how it's the police's fault, uefa's fault, the stadiums fault, probably thatchers fault as well. Quite a lot of other teams seem to have come away from major european matches with their reputations intact. It's In-Defendable...But We Have That Reputation Now...I am fighting a losing battle as I can see, but what you are seeing and hearing is just the bad.. What about the Olympiakos Fans who we joined in memory of the 21 Children who died at their stadium? Was that reported..Nah Didn't think so. I can go on and on about what good things the club have done that have gone un-reported. Same as we can list the endless English football fan confrontations...Many of which happend this season... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 24, 2007 the liverpool fans behaved disgracefully in their overall conduct, as much as i hate the majority of them, that's something i never expected to see... Overall, These fans were in their Minority? Anyway Just read this on the bbc forums "I was at the game with a valid ticket with my two sons and we went through seven police/steward checks. Not one check was for authenticity and our tickets are intact " http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/F7373856?thread=4186669&skip=80&show=20 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 24, 2007 Sadly, that's news for you. Last few times I've been to Anfeild for a match me and my dad have laid flowers at the Hillsborough memorial, along with many other fans. As far as I'm aware, it's not made the news. If I'd put some coach windows in or lobbed my phone at Robbie Fowler I think I'd have had much more chance of getting media coverage. And I think that's a problem (if it is a problem) with what consumers of news are interested in as much as what media organisations want to convey. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 24, 2007 Sadly, that's news for you. Last few times I've been to Anfeild for a match me and my dad have laid flowers at the Hillsborough memorial, along with many other fans. As far as I'm aware, it's not made the news. If I'd put some coach windows in or lobbed my phone at Robbie Fowler I think I'd have had much more chance of getting media coverage. And I think that's a problem (if it is a problem) with what consumers of news are interested in as much as what media organisations want to convey. It's not just football it is news as a whole.. EG...Virgina Shooting or 500 Dead in Car Bomb attack in Iraq... Sad really.. Anyway, I am ashamed at our fans for what happend, and I am disgusted, My Dad come home with some horrible stories. However I resent people who are condmening all Liverpool fan's and tarnishing us all with the same brush. The fact is roughly the same amount of people went to Istanbul and Nothing happend we were praised for our beheaviour, Liverpool have had no major trouble in Europe since Heysel. And it is true our fans should of beheaved better. It all however comes back to the tickets, and the allocations, 17,000 for a club of Liverpool FC's Fan base was never enough and 17,300 out of 63,000 is an aboslute disgrace. I think alot more is to come out of this, and I hope UEFA accept some of the blame for what has been a poorly organised event.. This puts it simply for me The ticket problem was created by UEFA and then exacerbated by Livepool FC and our fans, And we tried to warn them about what would happen.. BUT OH NO AS LONG AS THEY HAVE MONEY WHO CARES HEY! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 25, 2007 In one sense I agree with Ant, the ticket allocations for cup finals is disgusting. Why give tickets to people who couldn't give a shit? It was the same for us last year, we were given either 19,000 or 21,000 (can't quite remember). The Stade de France holds around 80,000 people, that means around half the stadiums tickets were given to nitwits who couldn't give a toss. You can understand why fans who had no ticket turned up because they knew tickets would be available on the black market. Unfortunately theres two sides to every coin, and you can not condone the actions of the fans that scammed their own supporters by going in with fake tickets. I saw one chap on sky sports news, he said he got in with a fake ticket and was front row behind the goal. When asked what he felt about fans with real tickets not getting in, he gave some shit excuse like "thats what being a real fan is about, doing anything to see the game". He disgusted me, real fans are those scousers who sung "You'll never walk alone" when the team went to get their runner up medals. Not tossers conning their own supporters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 25, 2007 In one sense I agree with Ant, the ticket allocations for cup finals is disgusting. Why give tickets to people who couldn't give a shit? It was the same for us last year, we were given either 19,000 or 21,000 (can't quite remember). The Stade de France holds around 80,000 people, that means around half the stadiums tickets were given to nitwits who couldn't give a toss. You can understand why fans who had no ticket turned up because they knew tickets would be available on the black market. Unfortunately theres two sides to every coin, and you can not condone the actions of the fans that scammed their own supporters by going in with fake tickets. I saw one chap on sky sports news, he said he got in with a fake ticket and was front row behind the goal. When asked what he felt about fans with real tickets not getting in, he gave some shit excuse like "thats what being a real fan is about, doing anything to see the game". He disgusted me, real fans are those scousers who sung "You'll never walk alone" when the team went to get their runner up medals. Not tossers conning their own supporters. Spot On mate I agree with everything you are saying, I believe this problem would of happend with any other team with such passionatly supported fans, William Gallard said something about it never happend with Celtic Fans in Sevilla. Well maybe that because Sevilla knew what they were doing reguarding fake tickets etc, and the same happend in Istanbul They knew what they were doing as well, it all goes down to the event organizers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 25, 2007 Oh stop being so bloody polictically correct. I can totally understand and condone fans kicking off with the police. You spend all that on flights, hotels and a geta genuine ticket not to be let in. What are you going to do? Write a harshly worded letter? Hold hands with fellow fans and hold a silent vigil? It's totally unacceptable, what's more the police in other countries always blame English fans, and in many cases provoke them. If any other group of consumers had been ripped off by the same margin everyone would be on their side, but as they're football fans from England, hell no. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 25, 2007 Oh stop being so bloody polictically correct. I can totally understand and condone fans kicking off with the police. You spend all that on flights, hotels and a geta genuine ticket not to be let in. What are you going to do? Write a harshly worded letter? Hold hands with fellow fans and hold a silent vigil? It's totally unacceptable, what's more the police in other countries always blame English fans, and in many cases provoke them. If any other group of consumers had been ripped off by the same margin everyone would be on their side, but as they're football fans from England, hell no. How the hell can you condone violence against police? Are they responsible for ticket allocations? Are they resposible for checking tickets? Did they cheat their fellow supporters by using fake tickets? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 25, 2007 Oh stop being so bloody polictically correct. I can totally understand and condone fans kicking off with the police. They should have been kicking off with their own fans, if anything. And "politically correct"? I know it's been overused to the point of being meaningless, but what exactly is "politically correct" in this thread? Surely promoting a softly-softly approach and 'understanding' to the law-breaking fans trying to cause a crush is the politically correct view if anything? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 25, 2007 How the hell can you condone violence against police? Are they responsible for ticket allocations? Are they resposible for checking tickets? Did they cheat their fellow supporters by using fake tickets? I condone it because foreign police are complete bastards to English football fans and wind them up, attack them and mistreat them at every opporunity. The police shoul;d be there to ensure people's safety and keep things calm, not look for a kick off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 25, 2007 I'm sure kicking off at police because their own fans robbed their tickets will help ensure that the next time English fans go abroad they're treated well by the local plod. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 25, 2007 I'm sure kicking off at police because their own fans robbed their tickets will help ensure that the next time English fans go abroad they're treated well by the local plod. lol probably not. But if I was there, had a genuine ticket and wasn't allowed in, I'd have been livid. I'm not going to condemn them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 25, 2007 I condone it because foreign police are complete bastards to English football fans and wind them up, attack them and mistreat them at every opporunity. The police shoul;d be there to ensure people's safety and keep things calm, not look for a kick off. I have said it once before and I will say it again, Foreign Police will never be able to control England fans. You only have to look at Roma, Sevilla and Athens to know what I mean...There were no turnstiles, it was not a football stadium instead their was what my dad described as 3 "bottle neck" security checks. With about 3 UV lights per checkpoint to fliter the fake tickerts from legit. Outside the ground A Combination of Desperate Fans without tickets + Ill Prepared Greek Police + Badly Organised Fake Ticket Flitering System led to the violence of which occured. Yes our fans robbed tickets and I cannot condone that, yet I firmly believe that better preperation and arrangement from UEFA would of prevented this from happening. This was always bound to happen once our ticket allocation had been announced, Liverpool FC as a club together with fans pleaded with them. Rick Parry before the game quoted "It would of been better for UEFA to give us extra tickets and let us deal with them through our own official chanels rather then let them be put on the black market" UEFA will point the finger at us for our fans beheaviour, we will blame UEFA for their incompetence and not listening to us about what could potentially happen and how Ill Prepared they were leading up the finale, in the security of the fans and the overall preperation of the finale. But the fact remains, no matter what we try to prove to the rest of Europe. I'ts down to shock tactics now, Just you wait till the Sunday Tabloids, they will have a field day Let us remember this never happend in Istanbul, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 25, 2007 When the hell did that happen and was whoever designed it drunk? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 25, 2007 The new Villa badge is alright I think, it's just the star that looks a bit out of place. I assume that's for their European Cup win, right? Prepared is a bit of a shit motto as well. A shit motto for a shit football team I suppose. Last word on the Athens farce: UEFA are fucking ***** Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 25, 2007 When the hell did that happen and was whoever designed it drunk? I think the new badge is okay with the star on Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 25, 2007 From what I can gather the badge was partially decided by an online poll: The addition of a star is something fans have been requesting for a long time and 80 per cent, in an on-line survey, voted for its inclusion. The current fragmented lion has been replaced by the gold unified lion and 42 per cent of supporters voted to replace the striped background. But surely if only 42% said to replace the stripes then 58% wanted to keep them??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 25, 2007 The new Villa badge is alright I think, it's just the star that looks a bit out of place. I assume that's for their European Cup win, right? It's all part of Randy's Revolution, a badge to represent our proud history and the seemingly bright future for the club, hence the new brand motto "Proud History, Bright Future". Although where we got "Prepared" from I don't know. A shit motto for a shit football team I suppose. What the fuck? We're not Middlesbrough! When the hell did that happen and was whoever designed it drunk? You have SEAHORSES in your badge, so Saddle The Fat Unicorn! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 25, 2007 UEFA will point the finger at us for our fans beheaviour, we will blame UEFA for their incompetence and not listening to us about what could potentially happen and how Ill Prepared they were leading up the finale, in the security of the fans and the overall preperation of the finale.I think both sides share responsibility, but in my view one thing that seems to be damaging Liverpool is the apologists who make excuses in the media. On sky etc, I keep hearing supporters say how they could wave a green cigarrette packet or rugby ticket to walk into the stadium and how they blame the UEFA and police for allowing that. Somehow that doesn't sounds right to me. My point is, there are some distinct problematic behaviour on our english side and I think there is an element of it which has to be faced head on. That has to be done with clarity while also pointing out what UEFA did wrong. Otherwise it'll sound like Liverpool are excusing themselves based on "2 wrongs make 1 right". I'm well aware that the problem makers are in the minority, but for outsiders that is an internal matter. At the moment there is too much of "one side is completely to blame" going on for my liking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 25, 2007 Love our crest to be honest Preferred your old one to your new one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
