Metroid Prime 3: Corruption

[Fanelia]

I thought Metroid Prime and Windwaker had great music, hence if they're Midi, I don't care. It's what it sounds like, not how it's made.

 

the same music would sound much better if it were orchestrated. that's a fact. but like hellfire says, midi offers all sorts of advantage, or from another point of view, it's too hard to pull the same advantages out of orchestrated music.

[Cube]

the same music would sound much better if it were orchestrated. that's a fact.

 

It's not a fact at all.

[Fanelia]

oh come on. hook up some decent headphone onto your system and tell me midi sounds nearly as good as orchestrated. the difference in quality is defined. i couldn't care less, i still think OoT sounds superb, but we're talking about a qualitative difference, not a difference in subjective perception.

 

the music itself has nothing to do with it.

 

i can imagine buying my old piano tutor a cd of bruckner or bach in midi-format. holy shit. he would kill me. i don't think these things even exist. it's a mortal sin.

i can also imagine some gamers having the same approach to their in-game music. to each his own.

[Cube]

the music itself has nothing to do with it.

 

Yes it does. Some music would sound extremely odd orchestrated - music made for it's simplicity sounds better with midi.

 

i can imagine buying my old piano tutor a cd of bruckner or bach in midi-format. holy shit. he would kill me. it's a mortal sin. i can imagine gamers having the same approach to their in-game music.

 

Exactly my point. Music designed for an orchestra sounds better when done by an orchestra. Music designed for midi often sounds better as a midi.

[Fanelia]

maybe so, but that's not the case with the zelda music wich would sound hundred times better orchestrated (note: i'm only saying "would sound better", nothing else) . i'm really hoping you agree with this.

 

as for "music designed for midi sounds better as midi" that's a defected logic. the instrument musn't be the goal. you set a goal, and then you gather the instruments. meaning, you don't say "we will make music for midi today" and then go "ah that sounds best with midi!". you should want to make the best music possible, and then you concider what tools would be appropriate for it.

 

obviously retro, and nintendo, decided that midi would be sufficient for their music, but with all do respect, that decision as any other design-decision may be criticised, as done in the reviews. there's nothing wrong about that.

[Zelda_Rulez]

I can't even imagine how weird some of Prime 1's songs would sound orchestrated.

[Fanelia]

i really think prime should have had classical music. it's been done before in the space genre. remember 2001 a space oddesey? great stuff. battlestar galactica has kodo drumms for the action sequences. very inventive and it works perfectly.

[Zelda_Rulez]

I don't think that would have fit in Prime's case, but each to his own. Metroid isn't really the series for that type of music, I can imagine it with Zelda though.

[Hellfire]

Metroid's music is almost always electronic music, it's not the epic type.

[Fanelia]

at least for the boss-battles! some highly intense and dramatic john williams shit, lot's of cupper, strings and a choir, all that stuff. somthing like duel of the fates, from the star wars episode one soundtrack.

[Zechs Merquise]

I can see where the calls for Orchestrated music come from in a game like Zelda, especially when a major Orchestra (can't remember which) did all Zelda stuff.

 

But I find it hard to see how an orchestra would put together a futuristic soundtrack that features so many machine type noises and industrial sounds.

[Fanelia]

the music in the prime series always reflects the surroundings greatly. when working with classical instruments it would be much more fitting in trying to reflect on the current mood, like in re4, and many parts of tp. remember the scene where midna gets sick, and there's an orchestrated piano soundtrack. that's all mood and none surrounding. it had a very strong effect.

 

a prime orchestrated soundtrack wouldn't be futuristic offcourse... the music would be entirely different. so there's no need in trying to imagine how an orchestra would pull it off.

[c0Zm1c]

Music designed for an orchestra sounds better when done by an orchestra. Music designed for midi often sounds better as a midi.

The thing is, a good number of instruments in a MIDI bank are orchestral. So, depending on the instruments a composer chooses for his/her MIDI composition, they are designing (or writing) it for an orchestra.

 

MIDI - although I'd imagine alot of the eletronically produced music in games today is modules rather than MIDI - can sound very mechanical at times. Not good if, for example, you're trying to create a smooth natural sounding legato passage played by a violin.

 

As for what sounds better or worse, played or not played on whatever it was intended for, personal taste factors in that. For example, I prefer to listen to classical music played on modern instruments, even though it was obviously written for the instruments of the time (which have a much coarser tone).

[mcj metroid]

i really think prime should have had classical music. it's been done before in the space genre. remember 2001 a space oddesey? great stuff. battlestar galactica has kodo drumms for the action sequences. very inventive and it works perfectly.

 

I disagree totally. metroids music system is perfect. it's sets it apart form the norm. making it ochetrated is the next step towards halosim... I don't want that.

 

The thing is, a good number of instruments in a MIDI bank are orchestral. So, depending on the instruments a composer chooses for his/her MIDI composition, they are designing (or writing) it for an orchestra.

 

MIDI - although I'd imagine alot of the eletronically produced music in games today is modules rather than MIDI - can sound very mechanical at times. Not good if, for example, you're trying to create a smooth natural sounding legato passage played by a violin.

 

As for what sounds better or worse, played or not played on whatever it was intended for, personal taste factors in that. For example, I prefer to listen to classical music played on modern instruments, even though it was obviously written for the instruments of the time (which have a much coarser tone).

 

 

for your first point. I own one of the best synthesizers around. Roland fantom x8. The accoustic instruments will never sound as good as the real thing.. they sound excellent but noticeably not as good.

 

With strings it's easy to notice the difference. but Synths create a better variety of music..

 

take metroid prime.. ice valley to chozo ruins... NOT possible with orchestra. Trust me metroid is better off without it. I'll settle for a bit but honestly none would be better.

[gj15987]

I did AS level Music Tech at school and part of one of the modules is all about making MIDI sound as authentic as possible.

 

In my experience solo instruments are often noticeable in MIDI, where as when you start layering more and more instruments together and tweaking the sounds, it begins to sound better. This being the reason why solo piano pieces sound horrible in MIDI.

 

And there's also the fact that MIDI can sound better depending on how much money you spend. With the right sound module MIDI can sound great.

 

But I agree with the fact that MIDI doesn't sound as awesome as real instruments. It can be pretty damn close, but never bang on.

 

However, when you're playing a game, you're looking at the visuals, listening to the sound effects, concentrating on the task at hand, controlling your character, watching your enemies...so many different factors that take your attention away from the quality of the music going on in the background.

 

So when you're playing a game its really pointless having orchestrated music when MIDI can sound pretty close to the real thing.

[Jamba]

i really think prime should have had classical music. it's been done before in the space genre. remember 2001 a space oddesey? great stuff. battlestar galactica has kodo drumms for the action sequences. very inventive and it works perfectly.

 

Can actually express how much I horrifically disagree with you here. I can understand that this might be a personal preference for you but honestly I think that you are on your own as far as Metroid goes. Maybe you've been playing too much FF?

 

Metroid games have never had orchestrated music, Corruption won't have orchestrated music and I don't think that future games will, unless it is a serious digression from the originals. I find it a little worrying that as someone who seems to know quite a bit about music that you can't see the obvious merrits of the compositions in the Metroid series.

 

(PS. I think that there are MANY tunes from the 16-Bits era that would die a grotesque, traffic-accident-style death if transferred in to fully orchestrated versions. Even some of the tracks from FFVII would be better off in MIDI.)

[GigaPlay]

To me, music is one of the least important things in a game.

[Fanelia]

Can actually express how much I horrifically disagree with you here. I can understand that this might be a personal preference for you but honestly I think that you are on your own as far as Metroid goes. Maybe you've been playing too much FF?

 

Metroid games have never had orchestrated music, Corruption won't have orchestrated music and I don't think that future games will, unless it is a serious digression from the originals. I find it a little worrying that as someone who seems to know quite a bit about music that you can't see the obvious merrits of the compositions in the Metroid series.

 

(PS. I think that there are MANY tunes from the 16-Bits era that would die a grotesque, traffic-accident-style death if transferred in to fully orchestrated versions. Even some of the tracks from FFVII would be better off in MIDI.)

 

well first, i have never played any ff games. my preference comes from orchastrated music itself, i have studied classical music for quite some time and have grown quite fond of it. but that's another story.

i can see the merits of the compositions, but i don't think they are exclusive to the style. i believe metroid-conceptual classical music can have the same merits if applied correctly, and given the purity of classical music and it's timeless character, and on the other side the more culturally colored electrical music, i do believe that a classical style soundtrack could be much more dynamic in range and depth.

 

and about the post scriptum; you musn't try to convert these old midi tunes to orchestral music, because it isn't orchestral music. if it were composed for those instruments it would have sounded completly different in the first place. so making that comparison isn't correct. game designers back then were forced to use midi and compose simplistic music for it because there artistic expressions were confined by hardware limitations. today that's no longer the case.

 

witch doesn't mean either that a classical soundtrack will be better per se. i'm saying it has more potential.

 

i wish you could all hear the music in my head as i see it combined with certain parts of the games... sounds great it goes something like taaaananana brom brom brom tanaaaanananaaa brom brom brom. great, yeah?

[c0Zm1c]

for your first point. I own one of the best synthesizers around. Roland fantom x8. The accoustic instruments will never sound as good as the real thing.. they sound excellent but noticeably not as good.

 

With strings it's easy to notice the difference. but Synths create a better variety of music..

 

take metroid prime.. ice valley to chozo ruins... NOT possible with orchestra. Trust me metroid is better off without it. I'll settle for a bit but honestly none would be better.

You're right that they don't sound as good as the real thing (I never said they did ). But if a composer chooses, for example, a violin instrument in a MIDI bank it'll normally be because that composer wants a part of the music to sound like a violin is playing it, regardless of how authentic it sounds.

 

If they do need it to sound authentic then they're better off working with recorded sound files (such as MP3, Ogg Vorbis, etc.) instead of MIDI or modules, so they can mix real instrumental parts with synthesizers as they please.

 

Actually, I'd imagine they do use recorded files, but for whatever reason (laziness or budget restrictions?) use synthesized orchestral parts instead of the real thing in the recordings.

[Cube]

MP3 outsells Bioshock?

[Zelda_Rulez]

Did it outsell Bioshock for that week, or did it sell more than Bioshock did in it's first week? That isn't really clear to me.

[Cube]

Did it outsell Bioshock for that week, or did it sell more than Bioshock did in it's first week? That isn't really clear to me.

 

I have no idea. Hence why I put the question mark there.

[steggy]

I have no idea. Hence why I put the question mark there.

 

This might explain it

 

Gamasutra posted an article stating that Metroid bested Bioshock this past week. Bioshock was the previous number one seller, all platform sales. From there, VGChartz has their info stating that Bioshock sold over 400,000 units during its first week. From there, N4G used those numbers to claim them as concrete for Bioshock’s first week. From there, TehGamr quotes everyone else, and takes the Gamasutra wording as stating that Metroid bested Bioshock’s first week sales. Quite a mess indeed!

 

Cite: http://gonintendo.com/?p=24277

[Jamba]

witch doesn't mean either that a classical soundtrack will be better per se. i'm saying it has more potential.

 

i wish you could all hear the music in my head as i see it combined with certain parts of the games... sounds great it goes something like taaaananana brom brom brom tanaaaanananaaa brom brom brom. great, yeah?

 

Yeah me too!

 

I think that the artificial sounds are what make the soundtrack in this case though. It would be like trying to replace the Doctor Who soundtrack with something orchestrated. Dramatically it could be an improvement but would fundementally change the an essential part of the Metroid experience. The sounds themselves need to be alien and artificial which may be able to be produced and recorded live in some sense of an "orchestra" but as we are talking MIDI based sounds essentially, I doubt it would make ANY difference.

 

Also I agree with MCJ, I don't want the Halo soundtrack. I like the fact that its different.

[Zelda_Rulez]

This might explain it

 

 

 

Cite: http://gonintendo.com/?p=24277

 

Ah, that clears it up a bit. What a mess :p