Could a PortableGC be coming more likely? (this is my own thought)

[Edjamakated]

There is no rumor I am basing this off of; this is just plain old deduction.

 

With the annoucement of the Revolution being backwards compatible, the statement strikes up many interesting questions. Before I get to those questions though, I'd like to add some other insight.....

 

If the DS is truely a third-pillar platform, then noone would deny that a new GameBoy is the works, or at least being contemplated. Also, during the official press conference regarding the GameCube media some years ago, Nintendo executives stated that using the GC-rom later for a handheld isn't out of the question. They never said "it's likely," but saying that future hardware might capitilize on the GC-rom's small disk size and high density brings me to the point that they are at least looking for ways to incorperate it. It is also more likely from a business stand point, since using a previous media by-passes thinking up a new propriety scheme as well as the securities invovled. Overall, it is just cheaper to do so (in the short run, definitely). Now it is fact that the Revolution is backwards compatible. What would compell Nintendo to do such a thing, since it hasn't been done in previous consoles? The obvious answer is the Digital Disk format. It's hard to incorperate backwards compatibility into a system if the system doesn't use the same media. Also another answer could be, because of pressure from outside companies, a.k.a. Sony. Nintendo doesn't want to look "under-featured" this time around, but that is a moot point. Nintendo sees the Revolution backwards compatibility extending the life of the Cube through software, even if they don't release any new games. Late adopters of Nintendo can go back and pick up highly-acclaimed videogames and enjoy them as we have. Of course Nintendo could end it there and be done with it, or, they could continue to support the Cube games, while making Revolution games. Supporting the Cube though, requires resources, resources that Nintendo cannot afford to waste on a "dead-console" come 2006. The only way I could see them putting enough backing behind the extension of Cube software is to some how get Third Parties to also develope for the system. No Third Party in their right mind would support a piece of software that belonged to a console that didn't have a huge userbase. They are more likely to develope for next-gen consoles, which would cost them more money, but in a business aspect, bring in more revenue.

 

So how can Nintendo persuade developers to keep developing for the Cube? And how can Nintendo afford to extend the GC's life with new software, while supporting other systems? Launch the Gameboy: Portable GC. It would have access to the many GC games already out, while leaving room for many future titles. A new GameBoy line would already attract many developers; couple that with the fact that it's cheaper to develope for and they already have the dev-kits, and you have a winning combination from the very beginning. Gamers who bought the Revolution, but not the GameCube will line up to buy it. The incentive would be there, for they already have a GC Player but not much of a reason to buy new/old software, until now. It would extend the sales of current GameCube games and with developer support lead to many more hits. Nintendo could then merge the two branches (GC and GB) of developing into one and with the experience, churn out games faster and games not visually seen before (i.e. REmake and RE:4). It would attract those gamers who did not buy a Revolution or GameCube soley becuase it has a large selection from the start, as well as being a new powerful system. Then after the purchase, they would give a Revolution purchase more consideration, becuase playing most titles would be better at home. It would use pre-existing hardware, cutting down costs for Nintendo. Adding WiFi, a mini-HD, and a SD-card adapter that allows for transporting saved game data as well as providing the possibility to play music or movies, all wrapped up into a sleek bundle that is the GBGC, and it'll sell. With the characteristics of a GC-controller, but unlike it, so it is comfortable yet easily carried. It would sell....period.

 

From soley a business prospect, it seems very likely. It cuts down on costs while effectively selling software already made. The only problem I see is the design and package. How could you make it play all GC games, and also make it easier to tote around?

 

Your thoughts?

[MunKy]

I dont think discs would work well in a portable console. Its a good idea though.

[Andross]

No. They've got enough on their plate.

[Migraine]

I think it's a fantastic idea, and is one i have discussed with people in the past. Nintendo also stated that they planned to extend the life of the gamecube well into the life of the Revolution... this would be the best way of doing this, in my opinion. You'd also vastly increase the library of Revolution games available... it would be like giving people a game boy player for free!

[Sabre]

UMD's practically are discs - with advances in battery life and perhaps a special type of power-saving drive a portable new GameBoy which was effectively a portable Cube would work fine IMO

 

A Few extra points - the only problems i can see are current GC Multiplayer games which could only be achieved through all players having a copy of the game, and some kind of short-range 'kalierra' tunnelling system which could work. Also GBA link games wouldn't work, and of course no special peripheral games.

[Kav]

I think it's a fantastic idea, and is one i have discussed with people in the past. Nintendo also stated that they planned to extend the life of the gamecube well into the life of the Revolution... this would be the best way of doing this, in my opinion. You'd also vastly increase the library of Revolution games available... it would be like giving people a game boy player for free!

 

Very, very true! I think this is a good idea, I know I'd buy one for sure! A GC and DS to go wherever I go... AWESOME!

 

 

shouldn't this be in a different forum though? gamecube or handheld maybe?

[Edjamakated]

No. They've got enough on their plate.

 

True, when I wrote this it was last year around this time....

 

I honestly bet that come 2007 or 8, they will AT LEAST unviel it, and say "hey...it's coming. Maybe not this year, but it is coming!"

[Guest Jordan]

You guys know about methane energy cells?

Technically, those could power a portable GameCube. Huuuuuge battery life, and no "lifespan" of current Li-Poly batteries.

 

It's possible, Panasonic make the technology.

[BGS]

It's a fantastic idea and everything but when I think about it logically, I doubt it's going to happen. The system couldn't "just" be a portable gamecube. It'd have to be quite a bit better than the GC in some way. whether it's in additional innovative features or in sheer power.

 

Why? Well, if it really was "just" a portable GC and could play the entire GC back catalogue then it's really not feasible from a business viewpoint. It's known that "the big three" lose money on the consoles they sell (and if they ever have made much money then it would be very minimal), they get their cash primarily from selling games.

If a portable GC came out then sure, everyone would buy one, but, most of those people would already have an entire collection of GC games. They wouldn't be in a huge rush to go out buying GC games and even if they were, it's likely by the time a supposed portableGC came out, that GC games could be picked up fairly cheaply.

 

Developers and publishers are also unlikely to support the format. Sure, if this gen were still going, they'd be more inclined to make a GC port of games only released on XBox/PS2, but, we're entering the next generation of consoles now. It'd be extremely hard to make GC ports of Xbox360/PS3 games and even if they could they'd be way, way inferior. It's also unlikely that they'd make games purely designed for the so called 'portableGC.' With the cube already having a lifespan of great games to choose from it's unlikely the money will be put in place by anyone other than Nintendo to make new games for what is effectively a 5 year old+ system.

 

I just don't think it's feasible seen as though it's highly likely that Nintendo will lose money on every 'PortableGC' and it's also unlikely that they'll make much money on games because of the GC's already established library of games. And don't think third parties will go near the thing with new games. And this is without mentioning that half the features in GC games wouldn't work. Unless Nintendo have planned it in secret all along, it'd be pretty impossible to get any kind of multiplayer modes working.

 

So although it would be a dream come true for many of us, It'd have to be way more then a Portable GC to see the light of day. Either that or the next gameboy will be as powerful as a Gamecube, it just won't be compatible with GC disks and will see a lot of GC ports with wifi multiplayer features That, although not great news for us, is far more viable from Nintendo's view.

[darkjak]

Heh...

Found some mock-up pictures from last year:

 

If Nintendo'd release a portable version of the GC, I'd buy it STRAIGHT AWAY!

It would whup Sony's ass...

[Stabby]

I like the idea but face it, nintendo won't be using discs in a handheld for a very long time for some very basic reasons: cost, loading times and battery life. Even though this gameboy would play Gamecube games at a lower resolution, the same power and architecture of the Gamecube's chips would be needed, wich is too much for now on a handheld. I don't think Nintendo will include 2 analog sticks and analog triggers to a handheld anyway.

 

I'm sure Nintendo's next step will be a new gameboy or a DS with slightly more power then PSP. It will use the newest technology carts (1GB) to save battery life and eliminate loading times.

[DiemetriX]

shouldn't this be in a different forum though? gamecube or handheld maybe?

 

 

yes it should... Now do decide which of them...

[moved]

[pedrocasilva]

It would be quite easy to make.

 

Just reduce the core sizes of the system from .15 nm on GPU and .13 nm on the CPU for .09 or even .065 nm's process, also the GPU would need some kind of overhaul because it has 3MB of embedded 1T-SRAM (DDR variant) serving as cache/eDRAM, it would need to be external to reduce heat and core size, the RAM would be about 20% more expensive if they chose to make it like from desktop DDR to laptop DDR, they could "cut corners" on the digital and analog features, as a portable console doesn't really need any video output, although it would be nice

 

Then cut at least one memory card reader and take all the plugs for controllers (although maybe a radio reciever configured for, up to four wavebirds would be nice), the screen would probably have 640x480 so that's a big cost (the cheapest PDA with one of those i've seen is 330€) add a good batery and it's good to go...

 

The cd reading drive would have to have a bigger response time, and more cache would be nice for storing the loading information, the other handycap would be getting the games, not designed for a battery not wasting the battery in a few hours, a firmware that obliges the DVD disc to stop spining frequently would help (in games like zelda OoT and mario kart DD the disc is always spinning, unless you open the drive and stop it, then it'll only start spinning when the game attemps to make a loading again, that loading will be slower because the disc has to start spining again, oposed to it being spining already.

[djamb3]

Probably the next gameboy will feature GC graphics and won't be with cartdriges, so maybe we can play our games in that. Probably....

[Sonic238]

would be nice, but i don't see it happen in a long time. although everything you wrote in your little article makes perfect sense, it's not going to happen.

some reasons:

the disc in the drive is spinning all the time (one of nintendo's copy protections)

analog triggers like said before (not the sticks, but the triggers)

ngc = dead system. the backwards compatibility for consoles is rarely used. how long is it ago since you played a psOne game?

 

plus: a gameboy is not a PSP. what i want to say with that: a gameboy's size isn't that of a phone booth. thanks for listening. (because the PSP IS a phone booth. if that thing drops on you, you're dead.)

[pedrocasilva]

would be nice, but i don't see it happen in a long time. although everything you wrote in your little article makes perfect sense, it's not going to happen.

some reasons:

the disc in the drive is spinning all the time (one of nintendo's copy protections)

analog triggers like said before (not the sticks, but the triggers)

ngc = dead system. the backwards compatibility for consoles is rarely used. how long is it ago since you played a psOne game?

 

plus: a gameboy is not a PSP. what i want to say with that: a gameboy's size isn't that of a phone booth. thanks for listening. (because the PSP IS a phone booth. if that thing drops on you, you're dead.)

the cd can stop spinning, if you open up while it isn't loading it'll simply stop doing it, only starting to load and spin when a load is requested again, they really need to stop the cd from spining most of the time, because this time around they have to give a good battery life.

 

NGC is not a dead system, specially if they re-release it as a portable console, at least as much support as PSP has on launch (possibly more), it'll have the upper edge in titles, a great excuse to re-release some of them.

 

analog triggers are not a problem all the buttons in a Ps2 controller (dual shock 2) are analog, means that you can press them and that's one clix add extra pressure and it recognized as that, no problem there.

 

I'd still play Psone if good games came out on it, i'll be playing gamecube games on my revolution.

 

 

also you're forgeting a great extra... what about multiplayer? buying fifa for a gamecube portable means it'll also run on a revolution, then how about making one version of the game for both consoles, maybe you could use the "portable GC's" for controllers and extra menus/graphics while revolution displayed the game in the telly for example, like a gba to gc connection, but enhanced.

 

what would you like to buy the version of the game that serves it's function for two consoles, a home and a portable one? or just buy a Ps3 version when you can't even play it on your psp? (unless you "re-buy it) it would be a great strategy to bump the sales.

[Edjamakated]

Exactly.

 

There are problems mechanically and aesthetically, but those can be solved as we head into the future.

 

Though I said it, I actually don't mean for it to be released in the near future. The GBA had one of it's strongest sales ever last christmas, and the DS is absolutely dominating everywhere but the US (though it is still winning per se). Nintendo will likely ride these consoles to the ground before jumping ship.

 

I believe will see this console in 2 years or so. Till then, Nintendo can focus on the REV and build it up as a system. Then at some E3 in the future, they unviel it, and all those that have bought a REV now have a reason to go out and buy GC games, even before the PGC is released.

 

Not only that, but companies can now create GC games really fast (since they are well used to it), and with RE4 like graphics. Who knows, maybe developing more on the GC can unlock even prettier graphics then RE4.

 

The best part about it though, is that the GC essentially becomes the GB. With the GB label, companies will flock to produce and finally give the cube the attention it deserves.

 

Nintendo will make even more money have critically-acclaimed titles (especially TP) and have hundreds of games right out of the gate. Nintendo could even afford to allow a drought in order to make a spectacular game, due to the abundance of games already out.

 

The DS is the GBA reincarnated. It will handle the quick and quirky gameplay, while the PGC will dominate the other side of the spectrum. The REV will be the central hub that allows interactivity and seemless trasitions for both consoles.

 

Also, about battery life. Nintendo could put in an HD (check out western ditigal, they have a 100 gb hardrive that is absolutely tiny). This HD could transfer huge chunks of information from the disk and store it. The cool thing about that is, you can now have a Stand-by feature. Loading a new game up would be a bitch, but once it's loaded, you can play on and off between random intervals of time. It would make it feel like a cartridge.

 

Also, whoever brought it up, it would be a damn good idea to have WaveBird compatibility built in. People will be more likely, as REV owners, to buy WaveBirds if they new that they could use it on the PGC.

[Sonic238]

the cd can stop spinning, if you open up while it isn't loading it'll simply stop doing it, only starting to load and spin when a load is requested again, they really need to stop the cd from spining most of the time, because this time around they have to give a good battery life.

 

NGC is not a dead system, specially if they re-release it as a portable console, at least as much support as PSP has on launch (possibly more), it'll have the upper edge in titles, a great excuse to re-release some of them.

 

analog triggers are not a problem all the buttons in a Ps2 controller (dual shock 2) are analog, means that you can press them and that's one clix add extra pressure and it recognized as that, no problem there.

 

I'd still play Psone if good games came out on it, i'll be playing gamecube games on my revolution.

 

 

also you're forgeting a great extra... what about multiplayer? buying fifa for a gamecube portable means it'll also run on a revolution, then how about making one version of the game for both consoles, maybe you could use the "portable GC's" for controllers and extra menus/graphics while revolution displayed the game in the telly for example, like a gba to gc connection, but enhanced.

 

what would you like to buy the version of the game that serves it's function for two consoles, a home and a portable one? or just buy a Ps3 version when you can't even play it on your psp? (unless you "re-buy it) it would be a great strategy to bump the sales.

 

 

the strategy itself is quite good. but yeah multiplayer, how hard do you think is it to develop a tunneling system that makes multiplayer available for the old gamecube games? i don't think it's that hard. they could also make one-disc multiplayer available, they got it right with ds, didn't they?

what i don't think is that the ne gbgc will be able to work with the revo, wasn't the ds supposed to be that "wonderkid"?

anyway, i have to admit, i answered too fast

[DCK]

A handheld Game Boy way isn't doable because the GC discs aren't portable. UMDs are cartridged because it protects them - GC discs are scratched easily and not portable at all. Also, even on 65nm processes, the GameCube hardware still sucks too much power, take too much space and create too much heat to attractive to put in a handheld - it'd be more like a laptop and that way we could probably better use a Revolution with an LCD attachment. Let's not forget that Game Boys could never pass the €200 pricepoint and putting old home console hardware in it (along with the top notch LCDs/OLEDs and really expensive batteries) won't help with that.

 

Game Boy 3 will probably beat the GameCube on tech level, but seeing the PowerPC architecture hasn't settled on the handheld level, we'll probably see an ARM / StrongARM (Intel XScale anyone?) based CPU in it, like in the GBA and DS. It won't run GC games - it'll probably even use cartridges.

 

-updated-

[pedrocasilva]

A handheld Game Boy way isn't doable because the GC discs aren't portable. UMDs are cartridged because it protects them - GC discs are scratched easily and not portable at all. Also, even on 65nm processes, the GameCube hardware still sucks too much power, take too much space and create too much heat to attractive to put in a handheld - it'd be more like a laptop and that way we could probably better use a Revolution with an LCD attachment.

 

Game Boy 3 will probably beat the GameCube on tech level, but seeing the PowerPC architecture hasn't settled on the handheld level, we'll probably see an ARM / StrongARM (Intel XScale anyone?) based CPU in it, like in the GBA and DS. It won't run GC games - it'll probably even use cartridges.

gcn hardware is not very power hungry as it is specially if you count out the DVD drive, the system itself isn't a problem, powerPC on GC is a geccko it's not like the other PowerPC's that waste a lot of energy a redesign of it could fare really well, a dual core G5 low voltage uses like... 14W right now (IBM announced them), and IBM is helping AMD with the quad core CPU architecture.

 

this is geccko's core size already in .13 nm:

 

in comparation with a N64 D-pad, with a enhanced design it could really waste little energy, enough to be praticable.

 

On the UMD's... I agree, they are much more durable, even for children, but it is not impossible to do, you could cartridge your discs afterwards:

 

it's a panasonic DVD-RAM by the way :wink:

 

Later when the cartridge wasn't used anymore you could just take the DVD out of the cartridge and use it normally on a drive that supports DVD-RAM, a similar system could be done for a portable gamecube, like a mini box to store the game that can be inserted in the console, neat huh?

 

I don't think that even not using it (the cartridged DVD's) will stop nintendo, if they really intend to do it (a portable gamecube), and they wanted it in the past, at present... I simply don't know.

[DCK]

Pedrocasilva, the Gekko will still be a CPU designed for being connected to a power plug. Even if they'd manage to get the level of the new 14W (idle) G5s it's still not near the level of handheld CPUs. The ARM9 in the DS uses less than half a watt when idle - 30 times less than any PowerPC is to make in the near future. The battery life is still only ten hours with that, and the DS doesn't even have a dedicated GPU. Using GameCube based hardware is just not doable for a handheld. The idea is fantastic but it doesn't seem possible

[mario114]

It would be so neat, i love the above mock up. And the small disk sizes are perfect for on the go gaming.

[pedrocasilva]

Pedrocasilva, the Gekko will still be a CPU designed for being connected to a power plug. Even if they'd manage to get the level of the new 14W (idle) G5s it's still not near the level of handheld CPUs. The ARM9 in the DS uses less than half a watt when idle - 30 times less than any PowerPC is to make in the near future. The battery life is still only ten hours with that, and the DS doesn't even have a dedicated GPU. Using GameCube based hardware is just not doable for a handheld. The idea is fantastic but it doesn't seem possible

no, no, don't understimate me...

 

While the 400-MHz version of the 750CX dissipated 4.0 watts of power, for instance, the 400-MHz 750CXe dissipates 3.5 watts, Parker said.

Source: http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=10807020

 

 

Gamecube has a enhanced PowerPC 750Cxe (other variants are used in routers for example) now... I gave a wrong fact back there... (on my first post) it's not on .13 nm it's aparently on .18 nm, so there is a lot to shrink down (and GPU is also on .18 nm) reducing it's consumption to half can be easily done by now, even more is possible though.

 

I wasn't talking about getting it on 14W (it is lower than 14W already), I was talking IBM has recent G5 CPU's with maximum watt comsumption of 14W, the "normal" G5's waste a lot of energy, so... a improved geccko could go very low, considering how low they are going with those...

 

also... the Geccko on Gamecube uses 1,8V...

 

also look at these specs, bare in mind that PSP CPU uses .09 microns process (it would use at least double the energy at .18 microns...)

PSP CPU CORE

MIPS R4000 32bit Core

128bit Bus

1 - 333MHz @ 1.2V

Bus Bandwidth :2.6GB/sec

I-Cache, D-Cache

FPU, VFPU (Vector Unit) @ 2.6GFlops

3D-CG Extended Instructions

 

PSP Media Engine

MIPS R4000 32bit Core

128bit Bus

1 - 333MHz @ 1.2V

Sub Memory:2MB(eDRAM) @ 2.6GB/sec

I-Cache, D-Cache

90nm CMOS

 

PSP Graphics Core 1

3D Curved Surface + 3D Polygon

Compressed Texture

Hardware Clipping, Morphing, Bone(8)

Hardware Tessellator

Bezier, B-Spline(NURBS)

ex 4x4, 16x16, 64x64 sub-division

 

PSP Graphics Core 2

'Rendering Engine' + 'Surface Engine'

256bit Bus, 1-166 MHz @ 1.2V (**Changed to 512bit Bus in final version)

VRAM :2MB(eDRAM)

Bus Bandwidth :5.3GB/sec

Pixel Fill Rate :664 M pixels/sec

max 33 M polygon /sec(T&L)

24bit Full Color:RGBA

 

PSP Sound Core: VME

Reconfigurable DSPs

128bit Bus

166MHz @1.2V

5 Giga Operations /sec

CODEC

3D Sound, Multi-Channel

Synthesizer, Effecter, etc

Source: http://psp.ign.com/articles/513/513175p1.html

 

sorry, as theres no Watt numbers to perform a real comparation, but... lets do the math anyway: 4x1,2V=4,8 V that's a lot for a portable console, a portable gamecube could outperform that easily, for starters a reduced process CPU would already use up less volts than 1,2 and Flipper has both SPU and GPU while it uses little energy (I don't know how much though). I believe it would also mean less voltage than PSP uses, but not to the standard Arm9 CPU's use, that's like 450 mW per 200 MHz... baring that in mind there's a good reason why PSP didn't gave out power consumption numbers.

 

All in all it is completly possible and appart from the DVD drive (that I simply don't know, because the actual games are not designed to spare the battery) it would be more power effective than PSP is.

[DCK]

Heat dissipation is measured in watts too, and they're only talking about dissipation here. It wastes 3.5 watts when used in heat, that doesn't mean it uses only 3.5 watts. They could get a lot out of the 65nm process, but using dedicated handheld hardware would probably be a better fit.

 

Isn't 6 or 9 volts in a handheld quite common by the way?

[pedrocasilva]

Heat dissipation is measured in watts too, and they're only talking about dissipation here. It wastes 3.5 watts when used in heat, that doesn't mean it uses only 3.5 watts. They could get a lot out of the 65nm process, but using dedicated handheld hardware would probably be a better fit.

 

Isn't 6 or 9 volts in a handheld quite common by the way?

My point is.. it's perfectly possible to do a machine on-par with the PSP based on gamecube hardware by now... be it in size (on that one I can guarantee it) be it on battery life.

 

now, if they'll do it or not, i'd say they aren't planning it at least at this moment in time... after gamecube they are moving for revolution with a diferent gaming aproach and after GBA they are moving to DS to a diferent aproach aswell... going for a portable gamecube is "more of the same", they'd consider doing it only if the DS was doing badly.

 

Also I don't think PSP has a good trade for Watt taken for a handheld, I think it's too soon to have laser media readers in those... that said... I believe a portable gamecube could be in the same class easily, but with a big handycap... most of the games weren't made thinking of portability. (firmware enhancements would be needed)