Playstation 5 Console Discussion

[Sheikah]

Isn't it likely that they're working on making games compatible still? So they may not have a list until shortly before it launches. We only found out shortly before launch of the PS5 which PS4 games were actually compatible/incompatible (in the end only a few didn't work), which makes me think they work on it up until launch.

I'm also thinking that announcing which games you can play shortly before it actually launches might create hype at the right time.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Sheikah

[Julius]

2 hours ago, Sheikah said:

Isn't it likely that they're working on making games compatible still? So they may not have a list until shortly before it launches. We only found out shortly before launch of the PS5 which PS4 games were actually compatible/incompatible (in the end only a few didn't work), which makes me think they work on it up until launch.

Well, yeah, I think that's exactly what's happening: they're taking hundreds of games, which will take time, and, like you said, we've seen them take a similar approach with how discussion of backwards compatibility was handled for the PS5 in the year leading up to its launch. I have to imagine that negotiations with third parties are probably ongoing too, and their games will need to then be tested to the same standard, and so on. 

However, if that's the case, what was the need to announce this PS+ overhaul and catalogue of retro games when they did, with nothing but rough numbers and a pricing structure to announce? It was almost purely an announcement for investors, not consumers, and while I know a lot of stuff like this does happen, I think it's such a poor way to handle it. 

You get one chance to announce a product (and the alternative for a second announcement is basically limited to add-ons or a relaunch), and I think they kind of botched it. Now, will it matter to the long-term success of this service? No, not at all - PS+ has plenty of users already, and at worst, if no-one uses the higher tiers, they get the same revenue as they currently do. The difference with this and how they talked about backwards compatibility on PS5 is that this is the product - these games are the differentiators between tiers! The unique selling point of one tier over another is that you get access to PS1/PS2/PSP games in one and basically just PS+ as it is otherwise in another, and you get PS3 games in the top tier. Knowing what those games are going to be is a huge - arguably the main and defining - factor in a consumer choosing the top tier over the middle tier, or the middle tier over the bottom tier. 

The thing for me is that there was nothing really gained by announcing it as early as they did when compared with its launch date when having very few details about the service to actually share. I look at this service and I know that it's not a true competitor to Xbox Game Pass - though it certainly could transform into that one day - but the lack of details invites those questions which a truly defined and calculated announcement would instantly squash, because comparisons to a service like that as things stand aren't going to be favourable. You compare it to how they talked about backwards compatibility on PS5, and I do think it's a good point of comparison - remember just how many people came away swearing up and down that PS5 would only have 100 games available through backwards compatibility for PS4 games? There are also questions around UI, how it functions (is PS3 on the service going to be like PS Now where you get a virtual PS3?), and also what it's running on, and if anything has been improved. We don't even know if we should expect this to be HD! 

I don't think they needed to announce every game for the service, but 5 - 20 titles being shown off from the get-go I feel would have answered a lot of questions, especially first party games, which really should be in the bag and should be the easiest ones for them to deal with getting over the line. 

3 hours ago, Sheikah said:

I'm also thinking that announcing which games you can play shortly before it actually launches might create hype at the right time.

See, while I agree, I think this is what any third party games coming to the service should have been saved for. I think if they came out guns blazing it would have been great, but it would leave them with little else to confirm, so I think they should have considered showing off the basics (UI, confirming spec details, etc.) and a handful of first party titles which were ready to go alongside the announcement. I think third party titles is likely what they're in the process of confirming right now, so I think those titles in particular should have been the final thing to go out with on a bang before the service launch: "oh, by the way, we've been talking to our friends at Capcom/Konami/Square Enix, and can confirm that Mega Man Legends/Metal Gear Solid/Xenogears are coming to the service, alongside these other titles from them." 

And thing is, the longer you leave it from announcement to concrete details, you do create space for doubt and features being undervalued. For example, going back to PS4 backwards compatibility on PS5 - I wasn't really excited by the prospect by the time we had concrete confirmation that we should expect most PS4 games to work perfectly fine on a PS5, and if anything I would describe myself as being relieved that was the case, especially in the face of Xbox having clear messaging from the start with Series X (they have other issues, but how they communicated backwards compatibility on the system was not one). And even after getting that confirmation, we still got reports which instilled some fear about certain PS4 games having an asterisk next to them when played on a PS5. 

My expectations right now for the service are low, sure, but when they announce things like God of War, Ratchet & Clank, etc. - first party titles I would expect to see on the service seeing as they're already on PS Now - it won't be excitement I'll be feeling, but relief. I'm now not letting myself get excited by the prospect of the potential of third party games coming to the service, but hesitant.

While I get why they've done what they've done, I just don't think it was the best way it could have been handled, and considering how much potential revenue is at stake through upgraded subscriptions, I'm surprised this is how they've decided to communicate the service. At least it shouldn't be too long now before we get those details seeing as it's launching in Asia on 23rd May? 

[Sheikah]

I think you are overestimating the amount of damage an early announcement does, purely because the majority of people do not stay abreast of gaming-related news. 

Most people who will eventually sign up for it probably don't know about it yet or at the very least just know it's happening but haven't thought much beyond that. What really sells is games - if they announce a few weeks before "here's this service and you'll be able to play these old games" then anyone who wants to play those old games might subscribe. I don't think how they handled the original announcement will really play into how well the subscription is received. I don't remember Game Pass being a big deal when it first launched either, it more or less evolved into being a great service.

[Dcubed]

Sony could've at least announced a selection of the games that will be available... I mean, sure, I get that they don't yet know the full list of what can be made available on day 1, owing to technical and licensing reasons; but that doesn't mean that they can't afford to at least announce a selection of them.

It's hard to get excited for a retro service where you have no idea of what will be available, or what emulation features will be made available.  It wasn't exactly announced in the most enticing fashion that it could've and should've been.

Of course, this will all be forgotten once it releases; as long as the game selection is good and the emulation is of good quality.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Dcubed

[Julius]

2 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

I think you are overestimating the amount of damage an early announcement does, purely because the majority of people do not stay abreast of gaming-related news. 

Most people who will eventually sign up for it probably don't know about it yet or at the very least just know it's happening but haven't thought much beyond that. What really sells is games - if they announce a few weeks before "here's this service and you'll be able to play these old games" then anyone who wants to play those old games might subscribe. I don't think how they handled the original announcement will really play into how well the subscription is received. I don't remember Game Pass being a big deal when it first launched either, it more or less evolved into being a great service.

I think we're talking about different things here: you're justifying why PlayStation have done what they already have, and I'm saying what I think could have done to handle it better.

I even said - and agree with you - that how they've handled it will have no bearing on the long-term success of the service 

31 minutes ago, Julius said:

Now, will it matter to the long-term success of this service? No, not at all...

Again, I'm not saying that they needed to announce every single game, because while it would be nice, I just don't think it's practical for a service like this, especially with third parties involved. But like @Dcubed suggests, I think we could have had a handful of games announced - or, even better, shown - alongside the initial announcement, because again, the introduction of this catalogue of games is what PlayStation is using to justify having higher tiers for PS+ and is the main thing which differentiates between the tiers. 

The downside to putting out so few details is that it simply opens the door to rampant speculation, which is in itself dangerous for a service (especially in this day and age where things spread like wildfire and you have extreme fans on both ends); it not having a long-term impact isn't a good justification for poor communication. For backwards compatibility on PS5 you saw the full spectrum based on the minimal details we had for the longest time, ranging from "pffft why would you get a PS5 with only 100 games available through backwards compatibility?" to "they still haven't said 'no' to PS1/PS2/PS3 backwards compatibility!". Along similar lines here with these PS+ changes, you've got a full range of speculation from "oh we should only expect what's available on PS Now with a couple of PSP games thrown in, on a shoddy emulator at best" to "dare we dream for some awesome and rare JRPGs to be on this service?". 

[Sheikah]

1 hour ago, Julius said:

I think we're talking about different things here: you're justifying why PlayStation have done what they already have, and I'm saying what I think could have done to handle it better.

I even said - and agree with you - that how they've handled it will have no bearing on the long-term success of the service 

Again, I'm not saying that they needed to announce every single game, because while it would be nice, I just don't think it's practical for a service like this, especially with third parties involved. But like @Dcubed suggests, I think we could have had a handful of games announced - or, even better, shown - alongside the initial announcement, because again, the introduction of this catalogue of games is what PlayStation is using to justify having higher tiers for PS+ and is the main thing which differentiates between the tiers. 

The downside to putting out so few details is that it simply opens the door to rampant speculation, which is in itself dangerous for a service (especially in this day and age where things spread like wildfire and you have extreme fans on both ends); it not having a long-term impact isn't a good justification for poor communication. For backwards compatibility on PS5 you saw the full spectrum based on the minimal details we had for the longest time, ranging from "pffft why would you get a PS5 with only 100 games available through backwards compatibility?" to "they still haven't said 'no' to PS1/PS2/PS3 backwards compatibility!". Along similar lines here with these PS+ changes, you've got a full range of speculation from "oh we should only expect what's available on PS Now with a couple of PSP games thrown in, on a shoddy emulator at best" to "dare we dream for some awesome and rare JRPGs to be on this service?". 

Ok but then, if you agree that the initial reveal will have no real effect on how well the subscription is received, does it actually matter how they handled the reveal?

From their perspective I think they only needed people to generally know "it's coming", which they achieved. Whether people actually subscribe or not will depend on the games, which will eventually be revealed, possibly close to release. And they have the greatest chance of impressing when they can give a full list - which they can do only close to launch of the service. 

The hype of revealing the games included right before release could also be very favourable for them in terms of getting subscribers; people who will have seen the announcement of a retro game they used to love and who immediately then go on to subscribe.

I know people would like to have seen some games "definitely coming" announced at the reveal, but I almost think putting little information out there works in a way - they're not selling anything at the point of reveal so they don't necessarily need to convince people at that stage. Dare I say it, there's even intrigue among the gaming community now, who are now more tuned into finding out more (exactly what will be on the service).  

Let them do a blowout close to launch, I say.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Sheikah

[Sheikah]

Anyone seen the announcement that if you have both Plus and PS Now, come June, you'll get Plus Premium and it'll expire whenever the longest sub runs to?

So I had my Plus sub stacked until 2025 already. I went and bought a 3-month Now sub from Eneba and redeemed that, so once June rolls round I should get Plus Premium until 2025 at no extra cost.

[Eddage]

6 hours ago, Sheikah said:

Anyone seen the announcement that if you have both Plus and PS Now, come June, you'll get Plus Premium and it'll expire whenever the longest sub runs to?

So I had my Plus sub stacked until 2025 already. I went and bought a 3-month Now sub from Eneba and redeemed that, so once June rolls round I should get Plus Premium until 2025 at no extra cost.

Awesome!

3 months PlayStation Now looks to be a little cheaper at CD Keys though, there's also a one month option. 

Edit: Nevermind, just realised CD Keys is out of stock!

Edited April 28, 2022 by Eddage

[Sheikah]

Awesome!
3 months PlayStation Now looks to be a little cheaper at CD Keys though, there's also a one month option. 
Edit: Nevermind, just realised CD Keys is out of stock!

Just to note you will need more than one month as you'll need the Now sub to run through to end of June. You need to have an active Now sub at the point they switch over to this new tier system.

[drahkon]

Another thing: You can't increase your PS+ subs right now, in case you wanted to stack up.
You can't renew your sub right now, either. I guess that info was wrong.

Edited April 28, 2022 by drahkon

[Hero-of-Time]

12 minutes ago, drahkon said:

Another thing: You can't increase your PS+ subs right now, in case you wanted to stack up.
You can't renew your sub right now, either. I guess that info was wrong.

Yeah, I was reading about this last night. It appears Sony had seen what people were doing and blocked the increase of PS+ subscriptions. Kinda highlights just what a mess this whole thing has been. Surely they should have seen this coming?

[drahkon]

2 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Yeah, I was reading about this last night. It appears Sony had seen what people were doing and blocked the increase of PS+ subscriptions. Kinda highlights just what a mess this whole thing has been. Surely they should have seen this coming?

Maybe this, maybe there's a bug in system which made them block it.

We can't know. Which sucks, because we should be in the know

Sony have been incredibly good with their PS5 marketing, but their sub marketing is ass.

[Sheikah]

Oh that's a bit rubbish. I was thinking of extending my Plus sub time further, glad I didn't bother now. Seems ridiculous as now anyone who does legitimately want to redeem Plus sub codes actually can't? Maybe you are still allowed to redeem them if your sub has expired?

[Ronnie]

This is the kind of thing they'll backtrack on in a couple of days because of the backlash. It's a terrible look for them. How do you not anticipate this happening?? How do you stop people from redeeming codes they purchased? More terrible marketing/messaging. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Ronnie

[Hero-of-Time]

4 hours ago, drahkon said:

Maybe this, maybe there's a bug in system which made them block it.

We can't know. Which sucks, because we should be in the know

Sony have been incredibly good with their PS5 marketing, but their sub marketing is ass.

According to PushSquare, it looks like its intentional and not a bug.

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2022/04/sony-blocks-subscription-stacking-as-pre-paid-ps-plus-cards-stop-working-on-ps5-ps4

[Sheikah]

This is the kind of thing they'll backtrack on in a couple of days because of the backlash. It's a terrible look for them. How do you not anticipate this happening?? How do you stop people from redeeming codes they purchased? More terrible marketing/messaging. 

I think the thing about this service is that you can stack almost infinitely (or at least far longer), versus 3 years for Microsoft. They should definitely have anticipated this and it's not a good look, but I can imagine this would really hurt them if they let people continue to stack away.

[Hero-of-Time]

Tekken 2, Mr. Driller and Ridge Racers 2 have popped up on the PSN backend. Guess these will be some of the first games to hit the service.

[Julius]

11 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Tekken 2, Mr. Driller and Ridge Racers 2 have popped up on the PSN backend. Guess these will be some of the first games to hit the service.

Obligatory:

Interesting that this time we're getting third party games popping up after the first party stuff the last time some games popped up, hopefully means we might not need to wait all the way until their official word for some of the potentially more exciting titles? Hopefully Ridge Racer turning up doesn't negate the possibility that we're going to see the old Gran Turismo games on here, as I'd definitely be in the mood for them - especially if there were trophies - after I finish with 7. 

We're three and a half weeks away or so from the service launching in Asia, so I'm curious to see when and how they show this off and open the floodgates. I think a 15 minute State of Play on the service, showing the UI, confirming the games for launch, showing some footage to help us confirm the quality of emulation/streaming, etc., would probably be the most you need to do. I'm just hoping it's not another PlayStation Blog update...maybe we see something the week after next? 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Julius

[Dcubed]

51 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Tekken 2, Mr. Driller and Ridge Racers 2 have popped up on the PSN backend. Guess these will be some of the first games to hit the service.

Ridge Racers 2 is particularily noteworthy because that game was never originally released in the US!

Nice to see that they're not letting region exclusivity get in the way of releases. Bodes well

@Julius There is no way that we're getting the old Gran Turismo games on this service.  The licensing costs for all of those cars would be astronomical.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Dcubed

[Julius]

6 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

@Julius There is no way that we're getting the old Gran Turismo games on this service.  The licensing costs for all of those cars would be astronomical.

Damn you're right, I hadn't even thought about that. I think Forza typically has a 5 year deal (or something around that length) for licensing on cars before they're out, doubt it's much different for GT. Not to mention some of the music too 

Sooooooooo...Destruction Derby when? 

[Dcubed]

10 minutes ago, Julius said:

Sooooooooo...Destruction Derby when? 

You joke, but that game actually was re-released on PSN; and was even included on the PS1 Classic, so it's very likely to show up here!

Likewise, we're pretty likely to also get Motor Toon GP, since that got re-released on PSN too.

Personally, I wouldn't expect anything for PS1 that wasn't previously re-released on PSN to show up here.  That list was surprisingly comprehensive though as far as the heavy hitters went though! Apart from the obvious licensing hell no goes (such as the Tony Hawks games, movie licenses and Gran Turismo); pretty much all of the quality PS1 titles actually did get re-released... apart from the Tales of games and the Lunar games unfortunately.  Outside of those games though, the list really left little to be desired by the end!

Edited April 28, 2022 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

It's a shame things like Gran Turismo, WWF Smackdown and Tony Hawk Skateboarding won't be making an appearance. Games like those are a huge part of the PS1 library. It's why these kind of initiatives won't ever replace actually owing the original discs.

I'm just hoping we get lesser known games on the service, such as Hard Edge, Heart of Darkness, Silent Bomber, Devil Dice, Koudelka and Chase the Express.

[drahkon]

14 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Hard Edge, Heart of Darkness, Silent Bomber, Devil Dice, Koudelka and Chase the Express.

I don't know what any of this means. The first one is my dingdong's nickname, the second is basically my life, the third is another term for my farts.
Anyways, I'm just looking forward to some obscure PS1 games, which I assume those quoted are  

17 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Tony Hawk Skateboarding

We did get a (very good) remaster for the first two. I wish we'd get the remaining titles, as well, though.

[Julius]

1 hour ago, Hero-of-Time said:

I'm just hoping we get lesser known games on the service, such as Hard Edge, Heart of Darkness, Silent Bomber, Devil Dice, Koudelka and Chase the Express.

H-o-T, you've just helped me solve one of my longest standing gaming mysteries. 

I had to look up Silent Bomber as I swear I'd heard of it somewhere before, and well, I looked it up, and I've never seen that game before in my life. I then had to look up Heart of Darkness out of sheer curiosity about whether or not it connected to Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness (adapted in film into Apocalypse Now and also a clear inspiration in games for Spec Ops: The Line), because that would be a crazy thing to try to adapt to begin with, let alone on PS1. And well, it didn't according to its Wikipedia page. 

But then I saw its cover:

When I was young, every weekend or two I'd go over to my cousins' while my parents got on with being adults, and we'd normally end up watching films or playing games. In the dead of summer one year, she let me borrow a game which definitely seemed a bit on the creepy side for my age, and I couldn't have been more than 5 years old looking back, as I didn't have my PS2 at the time.

Now, the drive from my house to theirs was probably only 5 minutes at a real push on empty roads, but there must have been construction going on, because I was in the back of the car in a traffic jam after being given the game and waving goodbye for what felt like hours (so, in earnest, was probably no more than 20 minutes). The cars were barely rolling along, and so I did what every kid does with a new game and given the time: I looked at the back and front of this game's box over, and over, and over again. It might have been missing it's manual, as I don't seem to recall flicking through one.

I don't know what it was - maybe it was the heat, maybe it was the slow roll, maybe it was me constantly reading the back and flipping the game to its front, or maybe even a combination of the three - but I felt absolutely awful after a short while: I'd somehow managed to get myself motion sick in a car which was barely moving, and it's my first memory of ever getting motion sickness. Heck, I feel nauseous just thinking about it 

Since I "more seriously" got into gaming, I kind of just assumed it was Abe's Oddysee for whatever reason, I think I might have just got the two mixed up in my head somehow, but I'd always sworn the game had a red background to its case, a dog, and some dumb kid on the front. The only real confirmation I needed though was looking up the rear cover:

Yeah, there's no forgetting that 

I looked up the rest and the only one other one I seem to recall - I'm leaning towards having owned it? - was Devil Dice. 

Okay for this one I remember absolutely nothing about this game other than the weirdly covered die 

Man, talk about repressed memories, now I'm stuck trying to think of some more of the lesser known PS1 games I haven't thought about in a long time! 

That's actually why I mentioned Destruction Derby @Dcubed, had no idea it was already up anywhere - hopefully it comes to the service! - but I had a lot of dumb fun with friends sitting on the living room floor playing that game. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Julius

[Hero-of-Time]

Glad to have helped, @Julius.