The Star Wars Thread

[Happenstance]

 

[Ronnie]

00:00 > 01:45 some of finest music on Mando  

[Ronnie]

Star Wars Visions Volume 2... much, much, better than Volume 1 imo. I watched all the Shorts over the past few days and really loved the majority of them, which I don't think I could say about any in the first season. Beautiful visuals and good story-telling. A couple in particular were just stunning to look at.

Only negative is that, once again, each Short tends to retread the same ground. Eight of the nine shorts in Volume 1 were Jedi v Sith stories, and whilst it's definitely not as samey as that this time around, it's similar.

Hoping volume 3 keeps the focus on telling stories from around the world. Been great to see various cultures interpretation on Star Wars themes. Please, no more Jedi/Sith though...

Edited May 11, 2023 by Ronnie

[Julius]

Ray Stevenson, the voice of Gar Saxon and set to portray Baylan in Ahsoka, has passed away at the age of 58. 

He is also well known for his role as Voltsagg in the Thor trilogy.

May he rest in peace. 

Baylan was definitely one of the characters we've seen in the marketing for Ahsoka that intrigued me the most. Ray was beaming every time he took to the stage in London at Celebration last month, and he seemed really excited for the role, so I'm hoping that the character gives him the send-off he deserves with one last character he helps to make beloved. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Julius

[bob]

I recently resubbed to Disney+ to watch Ant Man 3, so I had access to the rest of The Mandalorian S3.

I enjoyed it. It was better than Season 2 in my opinion, which relied too much on cameos from Luke etc. I like the simpler standalone episodes like the one on the plant with the robot uprising, and it looks like Season 4 is going to be more of that, with Mando and Grogu getting bounty contracts from Appa.

Good to see Grogu finally getting to use the Force more, although I'm sad he lost his cool robot body. I thought that would be his new form moving forward.

One thing that I realised about all the new Star Wars shows that I find a bit confusing, is how they just around the timeline quite a bit. Obviously the prequels are fairly distinct, but all the other shows and films tend to jump around and it's not immediately obvious where each one appears in the timeline? For example, is Andor happening at the same time as Mandalorian? Is all the stuff happening on Coruscant at the same time? I find it really hard to place it all.

[Iun]

Bob -

 

The Mandalorian is maybe 2-3 years post battle of Endor i.e. ROTJ, Andor is maybe 1-2 years Before Battle of Yavin, i.e. A New Hope. There's about ten year's difference, give or take.

[Julius]

55 minutes ago, Iun said:

The Mandalorian is maybe 2-3 years post battle of Endor i.e. ROTJ, Andor is maybe 1-2 years Before Battle of Yavin, i.e. A New Hope. There's about ten year's difference, give or take.

Actually, The Mandalorian takes place 5 years after ROTJ for S1 (and potentially S2? We've never had solid confirmation on that) and S3 is likely 2 years after S1/7 years after ROTJ – which puts it at taking place roughly between 9 ABY to 11 ABY (ABY being [Years] After the Battle of Yavin, which takes place in ANH). 

Andor, by contrast, has its first season take place 5 years before ANH (5 BBY, or [Years] Before the Battle of Yavin), and it's second season will be bridging the 4 year gap between Andor S1 and ANH (so 4 BBY to 1 BBY – though they've already confirmed that it's leading right up to the start of Rogue One, which leads right into A New Hope, so likely ends in 0 BBY). 

@bob can definitely see your confusion, I don't think it helps that so many Star Wars projects under Disney's tutelage so far have been centred around the original trilogy (and especially in the gap between the prequels and the original trilogy, but leaning closer to the original trilogy side of things). Even aside from the confusion about when things take place, it just makes the galaxy feel a bit smaller. 

What I personally find funny is that they used the year system (BBY/ABY) in Andor, for what I believe was the first time, at the start of the show, but it's a completely meta year system (which they also didn't explain): it makes sense for us, the audience, to use the first film as the point at which we compare everything as happening either before or after, but it makes all of zero sense for the characters inhabiting this world. Sure, the Battle of Yavin was a big thing for the Rebels, but in-universe, is it really a bigger deal than, say, The Clone Wars, or any other war, enough so to use it as the foundation for their calendar? Definitely not. Also makes zero sense to have it in Andor - even if it's meta and only seen by the audience - because, well, it's comparing the time Andor takes place in to a time that has yet to happen in-universe. A long time ago, yeah, I know, but I think you catch my drift. 

Honestly, I think they should have found a way to keep an opening crawl around in some way, whether it's opening up by reading off someone's screen in a show, having someone provide voiceover, etc. It just grounds the time and place when you say "5 years before the destruction of the Death Star", "5 years after the Empire's loss at Endor", etc., and I really think it's something they should consider doing for Ahsoka. Doesn't need to be every episode, just the opening one, but man, are so, so many people going to feel a little lost in that show if people don't know when Mando takes place (and, bob, you definitely aren't the first I've seen ask the question which says to me that they should just put it out there in the show, not using the year system, rather than leaving it exclusively for marketing materials).  

[bob]

Actually, The Mandalorian takes place 5 years after ROTJ for S1 (and potentially S2? We've never had solid confirmation on that) and S3 is likely 2 years after S1/7 years after ROTJ – which puts it at taking place roughly between 9 ABY to 11 ABY (ABY being [Years] After the Battle of Yavin, which takes place in ANH). 
Andor, by contrast, has its first season take place 5 years before ANH (5 BBY, or [Years] Before the Battle of Yavin), and it's second season will be bridging the 4 year gap between Andor S1 and ANH (so 4 BBY to 1 BBY – though they've already confirmed that it's leading right up to the start of Rogue One, which leads right into A New Hope, so likely ends in 0 BBY). 
[mention=229]bob[/mention] can definitely see your confusion, I don't think it helps that so many Star Wars projects under Disney's tutelage so far have been centred around the original trilogy (and especially in the gap between the prequels and the original trilogy, but leaning closer to the original trilogy side of things). Even aside from the confusion about when things take place, it just makes the galaxy feel a bit smaller. 
What I personally find funny is that they used the year system (BBY/ABY) in Andor, for what I believe was the first time, at the start of the show, but it's a completely meta year system (which they also didn't explain): it makes sense for us, the audience, to use the first film as the point at which we compare everything as happening either before or after, but it makes all of zero sense for the characters inhabiting this world. Sure, the Battle of Yavin was a big thing for the Rebels, but in-universe, is it really a bigger deal than, say, The Clone Wars, or any other war, enough so to use it as the foundation for their calendar? Definitely not. Also makes zero sense to have it in Andor - even if it's meta and only seen by the audience - because, well, it's comparing the time Andor takes place in to a time that has yet to happen in-universe. A long time ago, yeah, I know, but I think you catch my drift. 
Honestly, I think they should have found a way to keep an opening crawl around in some way, whether it's opening up by reading off someone's screen in a show, having someone provide voiceover, etc. It just grounds the time and place when you say "5 years before the destruction of the Death Star", "5 years after the Empire's loss at Endor", etc., and I really think it's something they should consider doing for Ahsoka. Doesn't need to be every episode, just the opening one, but man, are so, so many people going to feel a little lost in that show if people don't know when Mando takes place (and, bob, you definitely aren't the first I've seen ask the question which says to me that they should just put it out there in the show, not using the year system, rather than leaving it exclusively for marketing materials).  

I know I am easily confused, but I do probably represent the casual fan who doesn't study every scene or know what the hell BBY or whatever means (I didn't before your post).

What I think further muddies the waters is that there isn't really any proper distinction between the various eras. The prequels are easy to discern, because everything looks kind of new, and you have the droids Vs humans etc.

But then after that you get the rebels Vs the empire/stormtroopers, and everything turns grungy and brown.

But then even when the empire is defeated, you get an identical fascist 'empire' pop up, who also use stormtroopers, and you have the rebels rebelling, and everything kind of looks the same.

So there's just always an oppressive regime, and there are always rebels, and the shows (and games) could really be happening at any point on the timeline after the prequels and it wouldn't make much difference.

[Julius]

New TV spot for Ahsoka featuring some of the footage shown off exclusively at Celebration in April, as well as a release date: August 23rd. 

Yep, still looks awesome 

This comes following some new images from and interviews with Empire, with Ahsoka being their story for the month:

On 6/6/2023 at 9:08 AM, bob said:

I know I am easily confused, but I do probably represent the casual fan who doesn't study every scene or know what the hell BBY or whatever means (I didn't before your post).

What I think further muddies the waters is that there isn't really any proper distinction between the various eras. The prequels are easy to discern, because everything looks kind of new, and you have the droids Vs humans etc.

But then after that you get the rebels Vs the empire/stormtroopers, and everything turns grungy and brown.

But then even when the empire is defeated, you get an identical fascist 'empire' pop up, who also use stormtroopers, and you have the rebels rebelling, and everything kind of looks the same.

So there's just always an oppressive regime, and there are always rebels, and the shows (and games) could really be happening at any point on the timeline after the prequels and it wouldn't make much difference.

Eh, I think it's less on you and more on the storytellers. I thought it was weird to use BBY for two reasons: it's incredibly meta to use, but also, does anyone casually watching actually know what it stands for?

So I totally agree. I think they could (and probably) have taken steps to make it more accessible to casual viewers, it would take all of 30 seconds at the absolute top end! 

Totally get what you're saying about it not having the level of distinction that day the prequels and originals had, and I'd say that just how similar the sequels ended up being compared with the original films is perhaps it's biggest failing, and I don't just mean in terms of repeating similar beats (it is what it is), but the overall vibe: similar themes, and similar looks. 

While we did get some cool new ship designs...X-Wings, but newer? TIE fighters, but newer? Come on! I know they've retroactively justified this with flavour text in the encyclopedias, but as someone who loved how the prequels went out of their way to design ships that would serve as precursors to these staples we all know and love, it just all seemed a bit...risk-averse. And obviously, I'm not saying this is on the Lucasfilm folks, because these sort of calls are made from the top and trickle down. 

It's such a shame because the sequels could have been the Cold War to the original trilogy's World War II and Vietnam, and I think that would have been awesome. Instead we're now getting that in the books that will bridge the thirty year gap. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by Julius

[Ashley]

I've never been a huge fan of the franchise anyway (seen all the numbered films and whichever one it was with Riz Ahmed but only once each) so I was never going to be the audience for the shows anyway but the discussion above does resonate.

Much like they did with Marvel, Disney seems intent on milking the franchise until the point where keeping on top of it becomes exhausting. I personally can't be bothered but I'm curious how many people will have given up and just focusing on specific shows rather than trying to watch everything. 

[EEVILMURRAY]

On 6/6/2023 at 9:08 AM, bob said:

But then even when the empire is defeated, you get an identical fascist 'empire' pop up, who also use stormtroopers, and you have the rebels rebelling, and everything kind of looks the same.
 

 

They weren't called The Rebellion in the later films, they were called The Resistance. They couldn't be any more different!

Jesting aside, I agree though, the whole complete carbon copy of the original set up was bullshit. They could've spent Force Awakens having the First Order evolve as a sped up development of the Empire the prequel trilogy did, instead of saying "You know those bad guys we spent 3 movies going up against and then taking down in glorious fashion to the jubilation of the entire galaxy? Well they're back, well... don't ask how because we haven't hired the writers yet to make films and series' to bridge the 20ish year gap following Return of the Jedi... Erm, technically they're called the First Order now, but they have all the same stuff, oooh look, Stormtroopers with flamethrowers, that's neat right? And we've even got a bloke in a black mask, that's kinda dope. *two movies later* Oh yeah Palpatine's back, go fuck yourself"

35 minutes ago, Ashley said:

I personally can't be bothered but I'm curious how many people will have given up and just focusing on specific shows rather than trying to watch everything. 

I keep saying I'll watch certain shows - Andor got a pretty good reception in this thread so was planning for that, and made a start months ago on Clone Wars series (I got about 5 episodes in)... but the saturation of it all just overwhelms me and I can't be bothered either. Even if they don't connect to each other apart from being set in the same universe, it feels like too much of a slog, compared to just single series' of other stuff you can watch in order knowing what is happening when. I'm currently watching The Good Fight.

 

I know one mate who will watch everything that gets put out (and multiple times in quick succession), and my Facebook feed will be soon flooded with his latest cosplay attempts (which granted are good)

[Julius]

1 hour ago, Ashley said:

Much like they did with Marvel, Disney seems intent on milking the franchise until the point where keeping on top of it becomes exhausting. I personally can't be bothered but I'm curious how many people will have given up and just focusing on specific shows rather than trying to watch everything. 

Totally agree, and I mean, I've still got stuff to catch up on when it comes to Star Wars too. I really think in the landscape of today's streaming services, where there is an overwhelming amount of content - not to mention that this has also become the case in every corner of entertainment, from books to games - it's a lose-lose unless you get comfortable with picking your battles.

Because of how long TV shows are compared to, say, films, I've become really, really picky when it comes to watching shows...and honestly, outside of Star Wars and a few select anime, I rarely keep up with anything releasing on a weekly basis. Instead I go back and dive into older shows; for example, I finished The Wire a couple of weeks ago and it was absolutely phenomenal, but shows like that which are considered must-watch aren't part of the current conversation, so they get absolutely buried by the constant stream of new releases. 

We're in a time when people seem to be seeking out new releases rather than just looking for new experiences, and I think it does way more harm than it does good (see: the rate at which these shows now release and how much tighter schedules have become). 

As for Marvel, yeah, I watch a film here and there but have more or less given up on the TV shows. Really doesn't help that the quality dipped massively after Endgame (from my perspective), so it makes it easier to justify, but yeah, there's simply too much, so just deliberately pick and choose 

49 minutes ago, EEVILMURRAY said:

They weren't called The Rebellion in the later films, they were called The Resistance. They couldn't be any more different!

They rebranded like halfway through The Last Jedi back to The Rebellion™ and it absolutely killed me 

50 minutes ago, EEVILMURRAY said:

They could've spent Force Awakens having the First Order evolve as a sped up development of the Empire the prequel trilogy did, instead of saying "You know those bad guys we spent 3 movies going up against and then taking down in glorious fashion to the jubilation of the entire galaxy? Well they're back, well... don't ask how because we haven't hired the writers yet to make films and series' to bridge the 20ish year gap following Return of the Jedi... Erm, technically they're called the First Order now, but they have all the same stuff, oooh look, Stormtroopers with flamethrowers, that's neat right? And we've even got a bloke in a black mask, that's kinda dope. *two movies later* Oh yeah Palpatine's back, go fuck yourself"

I've said it before, but a big problem with TFA and how it laid the foundation for the sequels - as someone who enjoys TFA! - is that it draws inspiration from Star Wars, and not the things that inspired Star Wars.

I think there's one way you can do that well, and that would have been to lean so hard into being inspired by Star Wars that you don't copy the earlier film, but you mirror it. Have the First Order start off in the position the Rebellion were in. Have the opening shot mirror the Star Destroyer chasing the Tantive IV...but with a New Republic cruiser chasing down a small First Order ship. Immediately sets up this idea in a single frame that the New Republic became the thing it swore to destroy, and that heroes can sometimes live long enough to become the villains. Have Kylo and co. actually get caught on purpose, take control of the ship, looking for blueprints to something that the New Republic is building: their version of a Death Star, justified by wanting to protect the galaxy from outside threats, etc. 

I think something like that would have worked, and worked pretty damn well. Also would've given us more Kylo. Have him and his little band of new age stormtroopers think they're part of this small fringe group, but in fact just basically be a First Order cell (again, going back to Cold War spy stuff). Kylo's entire reason for turning could have been him seeing what the New Republic was destined to become: another Empire. It just adds room for nuance and commentary and is exactly the sort of thing George would've done ("it's like poetry...it rhymes") but Disney wouldn't touch with a pole the size of a space elevator. If he destroyed Luke's new Jedi Order in a story like that he can also see what they're destined to become. The entire trilogy could've then been a commentary on destiny and taking things into your own hands, and the sheer irony of it all (I'm imagining a Macbeth-style "by trying to stop the New Republic from becoming the Empire, they ramped up their armies and the galaxy broke out into war...again", and have Snoke/Palpatine be the one to stoke those fires by giving vague ideas of what will happen like the three witches in Macbeth, too). 

I do think as an overarching narrative that Palpatine returning made sense, because if there's one overarching villain to the Saga it's pretty much got to be him. It's the lack of planning and "somehow he returned!" of it all which weakens it for me. 

1 hour ago, EEVILMURRAY said:

I keep saying I'll watch certain shows - Andor got a pretty good reception in this thread so was planning for that, and made a start months ago on Clone Wars series (I got about 5 episodes in)... but the saturation of it all just overwhelms me and I can't be bothered either. Even if they don't connect to each other apart from being set in the same universe, it feels like too much of a slog, compared to just single series' of other stuff you can watch in order knowing what is happening when.

I'd definitely recommend checking out Andor because it feels more like dystopic sci-fi than it does Star Wars. It's just great television. I love Mando too, for the fun it is, and it feels like a Saturday morning cartoon, but Andor, for me, is one of the best Star Wars productions released under the Disney flag. 

The Clone Wars, much as I love it, is a difficult sell these days I find. Release order isn't chronological order so a dead Nodian one season could very much be alive the next, and it's a kids show above all else - I grew up with it, so maybe that's where some of my love of it comes from, because it filled a huge Star Wars-shaped gap for me after the prequels were done. There's some more mature and great stuff in there, but early on its not front and centre as it was in later seasons. It's also just A LOT to commit to! 

[EEVILMURRAY]

6 minutes ago, Julius said:

They rebranded like halfway through The Last Jedi back to The Rebellion™ and it absolutely killed me 

I remember Finn calling himself Rebel Scum as an outside retort he wouldn't understand, but Disney raising their eyebrows like Milhouse going "ehh, waddaya think of that shit"

7 minutes ago, Julius said:

mirror it. Have the First Order start off in the position the Rebellion were in. Have the opening shot mirror the Star Destroyer chasing the Tantive IV...but with a New Republic cruiser chasing down a small First Order ship. Immediately sets up this idea in a single frame that the New Republic became the thing it swore to destroy, and that heroes can sometimes live long enough to become the villains. Have Kylo and co. actually get caught on purpose, take control of the ship, looking for blueprints to something that the New Republic is building: their version of a Death Star, justified by wanting to protect the galaxy from outside threats, etc. 

I think something like that would have worked, and worked pretty damn well. Also would've given us more Kylo. Have him and his little band of new age stormtroopers think they're part of this small fringe group, but in fact just basically be a First Order cell (again, going back to Cold War spy stuff). Kylo's entire reason for turning could have been him seeing what the New Republic was destined to become: another Empire. It just adds room for nuance and commentary and is exactly the sort of thing George would've done ("it's like poetry...it rhymes") but Disney wouldn't touch with a pole the size of a space elevator. If he destroyed Luke's new Jedi Order in a story like that he can also see what they're destined to become. The entire trilogy could've then been a commentary on destiny and taking things into your own hands, and the sheer irony of it all (I'm imagining a Macbeth-style "by trying to stop the New Republic from becoming the Empire, they ramped up their armies and the galaxy broke out into war...again", and have Snoke/Palpatine be the one to stoke those fires by giving vague ideas of what will happen like the three witches in Macbeth, too). 

Love it. And it doesn't turn Luke into a pussy.

7 minutes ago, Julius said:

I do think as an overarching narrative that Palpatine returning made sense, because if there's one overarching villain to the Saga it's pretty much got to be him. It's the lack of planning and "somehow he returned!" of it all which weakens it for me. 

I'd rather they stuck with Snoke, in the same way returning characters popped in to pass the baton to the new people (before all dying), maybe a tiny ghost of Palpatine could've shown up a bit but with Snoke leading the charge. You had Kylo going nuts on consoles with rage, which I liked, then Snoke ragdolling people about, which was also nice. Then they just killed him without a second thought. Or maybe a decent explanation like you said, like Snoke was some sort of Rick Sanchez-esque incubator for Palpatine, who rose from his body like Snoke was a tauntaun The Emperor was napping in.

His second deaths always annoyed me with his "Kill me and I'll possess you", Rey kills him and nothing happens, because she didn't kill him in the right way? They can't say she wasn't angry when she did it.

[bob]

3 hours ago, EEVILMURRAY said:

Erm, technically they're called the First Order now, but they have all the same stuff, oooh look, Stormtroopers with flamethrowers, that's neat right?

Also, they fly now.

[EEVILMURRAY]

59 minutes ago, bob said:

Also, they fly now.

Still can't aim for shit

[Julius]

Lovely Actors on Actors interview between Hayden and Diego 

[Julius]

A Disney Galley for Mando S3 has just been announced, and will be dropping next Wednesday (28th):

Phil Tippett hype! 

[Ashley]

Donald Glover and his brother (that kind of rhymes) will be writing the Lando series once the writers strike is over. 

[bob]

Well he be playing Lando in it too?

Maybe he'll write the theme tune as well. Maybe sing it.

[Ashley]

1 hour ago, bob said:

Well he be playing Lando in it too?

Not confirmed but seems likely.

[Julius]

Hayden Christensen says "Ahsoka" for the first time in a piece of Star Wars lore in the new spot, seemingly all but confirming his presence in the show either in flashbacks or as a Force ghost (or both):

We also had a great trailer drop last month:

And a bunch of TV spots/marketing hype:

10 days to go to the two-episode premiere. The hype is very real  you could almost say that this is where the fun begins 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Julius

[Julius]

The two-episode premiere has been bumped up to 18:00 PST next Tuesday (22nd August), which is 02:00 BST for us Brits - not totally clear if the plan is to drop them at the same time over here, but I'd imagine so. All new episodes will be dropping on Tuesdays at this time. 

Hmm. I'm all for episodes coming out earlier, this is kinder to the east coast of the US then previous releases, but it's a strange change to make (especially so close to release), and I'm not looking forward to dodging spoilers as soon as I open my eyes in the morning. Got to imagine that there are some metrics which have resulted in this change, perhaps around viewer retention/early viewership numbers? A midnight release in the US (or later) definitely meant many weren't watching until the evening after it dropped (or waiting until Fridays). 

Personally I think Fridays are better for releasing regular episodes for a big show like this (gives everyone a chance to watch over the weekend before talking about it at work/friends during the week to build up hype for the next episode) rather than midweek, but eh, the sooner we get episodes the better I guess 

Lastly, early impressions from last night's fan screening were very positive. Very much looking forward to seeing how the show turns out 

[Ashley]

The Mandalorian seasons 1 and 2 are getting a Blu-ray and 4k UHD release: https://tvline.com/news/loki-wandavision-blu-ray-4k-uhd-release-dates-details-mandalorian-1235031184/

December in America. No word on a UK release but seems likely. 

[Julius]

35 minutes ago, Ashley said:

The Mandalorian seasons 1 and 2 are getting a Blu-ray and 4k UHD release: https://tvline.com/news/loki-wandavision-blu-ray-4k-uhd-release-dates-details-mandalorian-1235031184/

December in America. No word on a UK release but seems likely. 

Saw this earlier, and I think it's great news. I'll probably wait a few years until the eventual complete box set release, but this is a big step in the right direction for me as someone who loves physical and doesn't want to see it go away, even with the sheer popularity of streaming. 

Praying this means they actually get around to releasing a complete box set for Rebels, and now that TCW is complete after S7, we can hopefully get an updated complete box set for TCW including both S6 and S7! 

[Happenstance]

Just watched the first 2 episodes of Ahsoka. I enjoyed them, looks like it should be a good series. I was never a fan of any of the Star Wars animated shows but I’ve watched recaps before to keep up to speed. Crazy how much Rebels this is.