Super Mario Galaxy 3 for next console

[darksnowman]

Nintendo's Shigeru Miyamoto has spoken of the "opportunity" for a new Super Mario Galaxy game as the company's "hardware technology gets better and advances".

 

It has been nearly eight years since the launch of Super Mario Galaxy.

For many fans, the original Mario Galaxy and its sequel represent Nintendo at the peak of its 3D platforming powers. But it has now been five years without another Galaxy-style title.

 

"[A new Mario Galaxy] is always in discussion," Miyamoto told Eurogamer. "But even with Mario 64 there was a lot of feedback about motion sickness with the 3D or maybe us making it too difficult.

 

Nintendo has since returned its focus to more traditional Mario outings, such as its 2D New Super Mario Bros. series.

 

"Going back to our roots and making New Super Mario Bros., anyone can play that," Miyamoto continued. "So that's why we went back.

 

"We're always thinking, is there a middle ground where people who do enjoy the 3D worlds of Galaxy and those who enjoy New Super Mario Bros. can both enjoy it? We're always looking at those opportunities," he added.

 

The recent Super Mario 3D Land for 3DS and 3D World for Wii U are examples of this middle ground. Both titles feature 3D environments but still do not offer the free-roaming levels of Galaxy, or earlier titles such as Mario Sunshine and Mario 64.

 

"On the other hand, me and [Yoshiaki] Koizumi-san, director of Galaxy, are always looking to challenge Galaxy and do another 3D action title," Miyamoto continued. "However we can't make so many games at once in parallel.

 

"But as the hardware technology gets better and advances, I think there will be a lot of opportunity for both options."

 

When asked what extra hardware power would be needed - and whether this meant Nintendo would now wait for its upcoming NX console - Miyamoto was coy:

 

"Wii U's definitely good enough in terms of hardware performance, it is more the workload of the team. If you look at Star Fox Zero, the TV and GamePad are both rendered in 60 frames, so in total that's 120 frames. It's really just a matter of the CPU speed at this point."

 

Super Mario 3D World's final levels were heavily inspired by Galaxy.

The number of Nintendo fans that have picked up 3D paint shooter Splatoon will also help increase the number of players that are used to controlling a 3D camera, Miyamoto added, and should help the next 3D Mario find a wider audience.

 

The wider audience of the 2D side-scrolling Mario titles is reflected in the fact that New Super Mario Bros. titles have sold far more than the Galaxy games.

 

New Super Mario Bros. Wii sold 29.3m units, for example, more than double that of Super Mario Galaxy's 12.5m and Galaxy 2's 7.4m.

 

Nintendo's next Mario game, Super Mario Maker, marks another return to the mascot's 2D roots.

 

This year's E3 saw Nintendo show off Mario Maker and other new games in its other high profile franchises: Metroid, Zelda and Animal Crossing. But all of these titles were spin-offs from their main franchises and not the games that many were expecting. In some cases, especially in Metroid's, Nintendo's community of fans reacted negatively.

 

"In terms of Metroid, yes, it wasn't exactly what fans expected," Miyamoto agreed. "With Animal Crossing [Happy Home Designer] we have a new type of gameplay but it is still the same franchise - perhaps not along the traditional line of what you expect but what we always try to do is work with the hardware we have.

 

"If you look across the line-up of what we have for this year we're using the Amiibo cards, Amiibo, the [Mario Maker] editing tool, two screens. Both the new Metroid and Zelda: Triforce Hero titles are new in terms of their gameplay.

 

"Even moving on to the year after, we're always thinking of ways to surprise the audience."

 

Eurogamer

 

The Mario Galaxy games are a joy to play so a potential third...?

[Serebii]

His comments about 3D cameras have caused a massive amount of uproar on GAF from those who seemingly don't have people in their lives who don't really play games. 3D cameras with platforming is still an issue that needs to be finetuned greatly.

 

Though I'm glad he said there are opportunities for both. Super Mario Galaxy was an awesome title.

[Ronnie]

New Super Mario Bros. Wii sold 29.3m units, for example, more than double that of Super Mario Galaxy's 12.5m and Galaxy 2's 7.4m.

 

Unfortunately that's no doubt why they've made so many 'New' games and are reluctant to go back to a Galaxy style one. Especially with the latter being a far bigger effort, development wise.

[Retro_Link]

I'm not surprised his words caused uproar, it's frustrating reading his ideas and comments on the industry more often than not.

 

The F-Zero control scheme rubbish, the 'until we have the right gimmick for the next game' train of thought, Mario Galaxy 1 was a disappointment, the direction he takes games in, and now 3D camera's being too hard...

 

Super Mario Bros. NES was hard as nails, as was Super Mario Land etc... so he's wrongly referring to 2D Mario, but instead referring to the dumbing down of 2D Mario with excessive lives, tutorials and guides.

 

I wouldn't really be interested in another Galaxy, after I didn't much enjoy the more if the same in Galaxy 2, so whether we get that or not I don't mind... but this idea of settling on a middle ground and not pushing is just frustrating to hear.

 

Oh well, I'll just have to get my kicks from other platformers like Tearaway and Ratchet & Clank for the time being.

[Serebii]

I'm not surprised his words caused uproar, it's frustrating reading his ideas and comments on the industry more often than not.

 

The F-Zero control scheme rubbish, the 'until we have the right gimmick for the next game' train of thought, Mario Galaxy 1 was a disappointment, the direction he takes games in, and now 3D camera's being too hard...

 

Super Mario Bros. NES was hard as nails, as was Super Mario Land etc... so he's wrongly referring to 2D Mario, but instead referring to the dumbing down of 2D Mario with excessive lives, tutorials and guides.

 

I wouldn't really be interested in another Galaxy, after I didn't much enjoy the more if the same in Galaxy 2, so whether we get that or not I don't mind... but this idea of settling on a middle ground and not pushing is just frustrating to hear.

 

Oh well, I'll just have to get my kicks from other platformers like Tearaway and Ratchet & Clank for the time being.

To be fair, I have seen first hand many people, even those who have gamed a lot, struggle with 3D platforming. He is most certainly not wrong in regards to the camera.

 

You're falling into the trap that many of us fall into. We keep thinking that the entire industry should be focused on us, the hardcore. That strategy seldom works and shutting out accessibility for newer players, or even the expanded audience, is not a wise move.

 

PLUS, he said there's room for both, so I don't get why people are bitching. It's not like he said "Yeah we're not doing it. 3D IS HARD, GUYS"

[Retro_Link]

Meanwhile there are millions - including those picking up games for the first time - who have no problem with it, or in adjusting to each games subtle differences.

 

Ironically watching people play Super Mario 3D World before launch was the first time in a long time I saw people finding it hard to judge jumps and distances dues to the fixed camera positioning.

[Serebii]

Meanwhile there are millions - including those picking up games for the first time - who have no problem with it, or in adjusting to each games subtle differences.

 

Ironically watching people play Super Mario 3D World before launch was the first time in a long time I saw people finding it hard to judge jumps and distances dues to the fixed camera positioning.

There's difference between the camera in say GTA V and the camera in a 3D Mario game. You need more precision movements in it. Rotating the camera isn't the issue.

[Retro_Link]

I didn't say it was. I just found it ironic that in trying to find a middle ground they [as far as I can see] caused more issues.

 

And I was actually referring to the millions alone who still buy and enjoy 3D Mario games. When was the 3D camera ever a common complaint of Mario 64/Galaxy?

[Hogge]

His comments about 3D cameras have caused a massive amount of uproar on GAF from those who seemingly don't have people in their lives who don't really play games. 3D cameras with platforming is still an issue that needs to be finetuned greatly.

 

Though I'm glad he said there are opportunities for both. Super Mario Galaxy was an awesome title.

 

Not all games need to target everyone. Mario 64 is if I'm not mistaken still the best selling 3D Mario game and I'm certain there are more people who are proficient with 3D cameras today than back then. I don't think you need more evidence than the fact that GTA V has sold 54 million units.

[darksnowman]

I didn't say it was. I just found it ironic that in trying to find a middle ground they [as far as I can see] caused more issues.

 

And I was actually referring to the millions alone who still buy and enjoy 3D Mario games. When was the 3D camera ever a common complaint of Mario 64/Galaxy?

 

Yeah this has got me thinking too. I honestly thought Nintendo lead the way somewhat with getting the camera to work in 3D spaces. Lakitu always gave you a fine view of what you needed to see in Mario 64, but if you weren't happy you could still manually tweak his positioning with the C-buttons. In fact, when I was learning how to play Mario 64, I preferred the up close and personal Mario cam to begin with. I could barely get Mario to run in a straight line otherwise. Mario Sunshine had an absolutely fine camera too - you could rotate and zoom to your hearts content - same as in Wind Waker.

 

Not all games need to target everyone. Mario 64 is if I'm not mistaken still the best selling 3D Mario game and I'm certain there are more people who are proficient with 3D cameras today than back then. I don't think you need more evidence than the fact that GTA V has sold 54 million units.

 

Until there's a sequel to Pokémon Snap we aren't going to have any conclusive evidence of how people's proficiency with 3D camera work has come along. :wink:

[Serebii]

Not all games need to target everyone. Mario 64 is if I'm not mistaken still the best selling 3D Mario game and I'm certain there are more people who are proficient with 3D cameras today than back then. I don't think you need more evidence than the fact that GTA V has sold 54 million units.

Super Mario Galaxy is the best selling 3D Mario

Then Mario 64

Then very closely Super Mario 3D Land

 

GTA V doesn't need precision platforming either. There's a difference between rotating a camera and truly and precisely navigating a 3D platformer.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Serebii

[Retro_Link]

How so? Why not just lock the camera behind the character? or hold forward on the analogue stick and move with the camera stick like any half capable person.

 

Honestly I agree with 'snowman in that I thought Nintendo had great confidence in their 3D camera capabilities, they're certainly regarded as one of if not the best at it. Sounds like some excuse to me and shouldn't be a reason not to make games of that kind. Nintendo typically always push themselves... if they feel better 3D camera's are needed I'd expect them to strive to make it, not go in the opposite direction.

[Serebii]

How so? Why not just lock the camera behind the character? or hold forward on the analogue stick and move with the camera stick like any half capable person.

 

Honestly I agree with 'snowman in that I thought Nintendo had great confidence in their 3D camera capabilities, they're certainly regarded as one of if not the best at it. Sounds like some excuse to me and shouldn't be a reason not to make games of that kind. Nintendo typically always push themselves... if they feel better 3D camera's are needed I'd expect them to strive to make it, not go in the opposite direction.

And that is what they're doing. Read what Miyamoto said. He said there's a place for both

[Hogge]

Super Mario Galaxy is the best selling 3D Mario

Then Mario 64

Then very closely Super Mario 3D Land

 

GTA V doesn't need precision platforming either. There's a difference between rotating a camera and truly and precisely navigating a 3D platformer.

 

I stand corrected.

But SM64 wasn't all that platform heavy, was it? I only recall a few tricky platforms that pissed me off. The rest was about exploring the worlds, solving not particularly tricky puzzles and defeating enemies.

[nekunando]

I'll happily take Super Mario Galaxy 3, Super Mario 3D World 2 or a proper sequel to Super Mario 64 : peace:

[Jonnas]

Did you guys seriously never heard the camera in SM64 being criticised? That was the biggest complaint anyone ever had with the game, I recall people saying Tomb Raider had a better camera. Heck, just watch Arin of Game Grumps play through it, he badmouths the game's camera at any opportunity he can (though not as much as the controls).

 

That said, I never heard the same about the camera in Super Mario Galaxy. The worst I heard was about the sudden shifts when gravity changes (so that covers the "motion sickness" comment).

 

Finally, what Miyamoto said was that the way they do cameras, despite having consistently improved since Super Mario 64, still isn't as good as it could be. This is a good thing, considering they must have thought the exact same thing after Mario 64, and after Sunshine.

 

How so? Why not just lock the camera behind the character? or hold forward on the analogue stick and move with the camera stick like any half capable person.

 

Honestly I agree with 'snowman in that I thought Nintendo had great confidence in their 3D camera capabilities, they're certainly regarded as one of if not the best at it. Sounds like some excuse to me and shouldn't be a reason not to make games of that kind. Nintendo typically always push themselves... if they feel better 3D camera's are needed I'd expect them to strive to make it, not go in the opposite direction.

 

There are so many moments throughout 3D Marios that depend on careful positioning of the camera, it's not as simple as sticking it behind the character. I mean, there are plenty of occasions where the camera is right behind Mario, but if it was that way for the whole game, then the games would be much more limited.

 

I'd like to add: in order to improve oneself, you need to take a look at you could be doing better. This is exactly where Miyamoto's comments are coming from, that's him looking at what could be done better.

 

I stand corrected.

But SM64 wasn't all that platform heavy, was it? I only recall a few tricky platforms that pissed me off. The rest was about exploring the worlds, solving not particularly tricky puzzles and defeating enemies.

 

Exploring worlds, solving puzzles, and defeating enemies all require platforming The game was very platform-focused, actually, I can count on one hand the amount of levels that weren't.

[Sheikah]

The main reasons for complaint with SM64 as I can see were that a) people were unfamiliar with the 3D perspective and 3D camera control back then, and b) the camera was adjusted in increments with the 4 buttons, rather than with a stick as it is now. It was more difficult to get the camera as you wanted it.

 

None of those really apply now. A huge number of people are proficient with 3D camera control, and even if they aren't, they can learn. The answer shouldn't be dumbing down.

[peterl0]

For better or worse I think they are (still) trying to chase the audience that won't learn rather than those that will.

I think ultimately the games with more restricted camera control, whilst that can be annoying, are still enjoyable to me, so I think I am with nando.