Ronnie Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 Given you did ask my opinion @Ronnie - I wouldn't mind yours on the above about where to draw the lines. As Cube says it's difficult to know, especially given we know some of us and posting styles quite well etc. No personal abuse would be a good start. I apologise for telling someone (who tbf called me far worse) to fuck off (in the end). Maybe have a word with Sheikah as his language and confrontational nature can be pretty vile. I also apologise for bringing the PS4's library up when someone said the Wii U's library was too samey.
Happenstance Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 I also apologise for bringing the PS4's library up when someone said the Wii U's library was too samey. You brought it up when I said how gorgeous the Wii U screenshots you posted were but I could see how someone could complain at the lack of variety. Not everything has to be compared to another console, especially when I didnt mention it in my post. People (like myself) get annoyed because instead of just discussing with me why you think there actually is variety, you went straight on the defensive and pointed the finger elsewhere.
Ronnie Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 You brought it up when I said how gorgeous the Wii U screenshots you posted were but I could see how someone could complain at the lack of variety. Not everything has to be compared to another console, especially when I didnt mention it in my post. People (like myself) get annoyed because instead of just discussing with me why you think there actually is variety, you went straight on the defensive and pointed the finger elsewhere. Your post was mostly about the lack of variety. It was phrased like "whilst they do look gorgeous, they all look the same." I didn't see a problem bringing up the rest of the gaming industry as an example. My issue was criticism Nintendo get doesn't seem to be directed anywhere else, even when it's 100% justified. I don't mean just on this board, I mean in general. As I said, I apologise for veering the discussion off on a tangent but my original post was meant to get some positivity back into a thread plagued with nothing but criticism. It then had the opposite effect.
Daft Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 I only questioned Daft's use of that word when he was attempting to belittle and condescend me. Like I said the other day, get over yourself. I don't need to belittle other people to feel good about myself. This thought process says more about you than it does about me.
Happenstance Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 As I said, I apologise for veering the discussion off on a tangent but my original post was meant to get some positivity back into a thread plagued with nothing but criticism. It then had the opposite effect. And I'm sorry, but your apologies mean very little. You do this all the time and has been mentioned, stuff with Wii you apologise and claim you will hold back on replying and then the next day it starts all over again. This is why I call for you to be banned, because you dont learn.
Rummy Posted June 25, 2015 Author Posted June 25, 2015 Perhaps it's a bit of an overzealous thing, but it's not just me and Ronnie seeing issues here with rampant negativity causing disruption. Getting rid of me would do nothing to help the tone of the forum which is what Rummy etc. want. Can I ask where this comes from? Like...there's a persecutory delusional aspect to your behaviour sometimes, and despite being repeatedly told something you seem to completely ignore it and go along with your own thinking. Anyway, I think this thread is actually working wonders as a therapy session. One thing I noticed was that when the threads started to derail, the issues of the board(and the negativity/positivity arguments) started to become a focus too with no outlet. Really I don't think there's been any outlet for a lot of things that are frustrating people so I wanted to have this thread. I've been considering before and going forward having a side thread too for the arguments that become arguments about the board(something not really mentioned here, but I guess that's redundant) and posts can be split out into there. It can also be a starting point for raising issues - a sort of 'general board thread' specifically for this board for expression of the issues and possible transparency of the(or at least my) moderation that goes on.
Ronnie Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 And I'm sorry, but your apologies mean very little. You do this all the time and has been mentioned, stuff with Wii you apologise and claim you will hold back on replying and then the next day it starts all over again. This is why I call for you to be banned, because you dont learn. You're probably right that my apologies mean nothing because in this case I have nothing to apologise for. I did nothing wrong pointing out how laughably samey the PS4's library is. My attempt to drag some positivity into the thread was met with a 'the games look identical' from you and yet another trolling post from Sheikah trying to rile me up (@Rummy). The challenging Wii on his posts, I agree that's wrong of me. But my defence of Nintendo is nothing to apologise for and certainly nothing that's ban worthy.
Happenstance Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 But once again, why do you feel the need to defend them instead of just having a conversation?
Daft Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 I did nothing wrong pointing out how laughably samey the PS4's library is.
Rummy Posted June 25, 2015 Author Posted June 25, 2015 You're probably right that my apologies mean nothing because in this case I have nothing to apologise for. I did nothing wrong pointing out how laughably samey the PS4's library is. My attempt to drag some positivity into the thread was met with a 'the games look identical' from you and yet another trolling post from Sheikah trying to rile me up (@Rummy). The challenging Wii on his posts, I agree that's wrong of me. But my defence of Nintendo is nothing to apologise for and certainly nothing that's ban worthy. Given the mention - where/what is this situation you're drawing my attention to? A link to a post from the posts in question would be ideal. Again. It's not about defending Nintendo nor critcising Nintendo. It's about HOW people choose to go about those things that seems to cause the issues. Not sure why you've even just brought the PS4 and whatever criticisms you made of it AGAIN and IN THIS THREAD. I think you're also downplaying your attitude to Wii, you don't simply 'challenge him on his posts' you essentially were persecuting him. I still don't understand why, even after admitting you struggle to ignore him yourself, you won't use the ignore function to help you. Nor why you've repeatedly insisted that he's not Ignoring you despite being told otherwise by myself and others.
Serebii Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 Can I ask where this comes from? Like...there's a persecutory delusional aspect to your behaviour sometimes, and despite being repeatedly told something you seem to completely ignore it and go along with your own thinking. Sorry, I chose my word order poorly. I meant that you wanted to improve the tone of the forum.
Ronnie Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 But once again, why do you feel the need to defend them instead of just having a conversation? I've had plenty of conversations about why I feel AAA gaming on the other consoles is samey. You get shot down for it. The Wii U only has platformers though and no variety at all. That opinion obviously gets a pass.
Kounan Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 I am not writing that much, but I want just to point out what is the biggest problem for me as a newcomer is. My biggest problem is how some people rate games and similar things. The games are either great, or utter sh*t and with Splatoon people gave these qualifications before the game was out. Also, some people are STILL complaining a lot about some things in Splatoon, but we all know that there is a new big update coming in august. So why not wait and stop complaining about things we all already know and which WON'T BE CHANGED at least till august. What is the point saying 100000 times that there is no VC, or what ever people complain about? I don't have a problem with complaining about something but at least be fair (@Wii complains a lot about things and I can't say I like it and that I agree with him, but the comment about the controls is a way how to do it "the controls are not broken, but are not perfect,.... I would prefer Wii nun-chuck - now that's how it should be done). Now, the other side. I am a big fan of Nintendo, I am a fanboy and would never choose another console instead of Nintendo, but when there was the Starfox footage, few posters defended the graphics. I mean please, it is clear that the graphic looked bad at E3, it looked like an old game, it was empty, it had a lot of work that needed to be done. Things like this should be clear and we should not argue about that, but it should be an easy thing to agree upon. There are few more things I think are wrong, but will not write about them. Sorry about my english, I hope everyone understood what my point was.
Happenstance Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 This is where it all starts to break down again Ronnie. I dont know if you are just purposefully trolling or dont bother to check what games other consoles actually have so just assume its all COD and Assassins Creed. Because to be fair, when you talk about this stuff its nearly always about the yearly franchises.
Rummy Posted June 25, 2015 Author Posted June 25, 2015 Sorry, I chose my word order poorly. I meant that you wanted to improve the tone of the forum. Ah. I see. I thought you were implying I wanted you banned.
Happenstance Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 I've had plenty of conversations about why I feel AAA gaming on the other consoles is samey. You get shot down for it. The Wii U only has platformers though and no variety at all. That opinion obviously gets a pass. I didnt ask you why you talk about AAA games at all. I asked why you feel you have to defend Nintendo instead of having a conversation. If you just replied in a well thought out manner then we would get a back and forth conversation going instead of it going straight down the shitter.
Ronnie Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) Given the mention - where/what is this situation you're drawing my attention to? A link to a post from the posts in question would be ideal. http://www.n-europe.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1763405&postcount=11066 He was just stirring, trolling and trying to cause arguments, which is the primary reason Sheikah hangs around the Nintendo board these days. I didn't take it to heart enough to report it at the time, it's not a big deal, I just ignore him (not literally) these days. Again. It's not about defending Nintendo nor critcising Nintendo. It's about HOW people choose to go about those things that seems to cause the issues. It was passive aggressive of me to post that PS4 screenshot graphic, I felt it made my case pretty well but you're right, I could have phrased it better. I think you're also downplaying your attitude to Wii, you don't simply 'challenge him on his posts' you essentially were persecuting him. I still don't understand why, even after admitting you struggle to ignore him yourself, you won't use the ignore function to help you. Nor why you've repeatedly insisted that he's not Ignoring you despite being told otherwise by myself and others(similar to the same point I've just made to Serebii). It winds me up that the gaming industry is dragged down by people like Wii. I direct my criticism to the things he says, not the person himself, no one else apart from Serebii seems to challenge his posts. He genuinely looks for things to complain about, even if that means scraping the bottom of the barrel like the lack of hardware colours the Wii U comes in or how much memory is in an amiibo. This is where it all starts to break down again Ronnie. I dont know if you are just purposefully trolling or dont bother to check what games other consoles actually have so just assume its all COD and Assassins Creed. Because to be fair, when you talk about this stuff its nearly always about the yearly franchises. I'm planning on buying a PS4 in the coming months, and had a browse through Amazon's PS4 games a couple of days ago. It depressed me how every game looked more and more like the last. The lack of variety was astounding. It almost made me reconsider getting one but then I thought about the indies and games like No Man's Sky, Firewatch and Rime. Edited June 25, 2015 by Ronnie Automerged Doublepost
markderoos Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 Sorry missed this earlier. I have to admit, I'm quite the user and lover of foul language and it often ends up in my posts - I don't think I ever direct it AT anyone though because I find that much ruder. This may be one of the places where there's a difference of intention and perception ie. I might swear in a post just because I generally do, but someone might read that as me being more het up than I am. However, as I did say, I'm not a fan of someone swearing so much at people, and it can get messy when the debates get heated and the words are thrown in(even not at someone). I think increasing censorship won't be beneficial, but I'm sure people wouldn't be against agreeing to try and not do it(I don't see it a whole lot, but then I don't notice it so much either). I see what you mean and you're right. Saying "Shit, I totally forgot about that" is nothing to fuss about, while "man, you really talk shit you know!?" is something I would personally find very misplaced in a debate. But you're right, changing tone should be something that members have to do themselves, not something the moderators should have to do.
Agent Gibbs Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 I suppose this will be a long post, and since I’m at work I’m going to write it in the middle of an email and pretend to be working (which I do every day so nothing different) I should also preface this with an intention, this is meant o be quite jovial and neutral, nobody should take offense, you are all awesome in your own way, and all assholes in your own way too, I know I am! I’ve seen the problem and I hope I’m not considered part of the problem, I try to be balanced in my positivity and negativity of all things PC (Master race), Sony and Nintendo (Mirosoft can suck it ;p ) Joking aside some members are very passionate on the board and when they come into another member who is equally as passionate (but holding an opposite view on that topic) it rubs people up the wrong way – IF THEY LET IT! I’d say Serebii, Wii, Ronnie, Sheikah and Dazzybee, have certainly been the ones I’ve seen being the most vocal and perhaps argumentative recently, to a lesser degree others have been vocal, but more in the sense of perhaps getting dragged into arguments when previous discussions have been mentioned and or their “normal” comments in a thread have been included in a larger post that’s a bit antagonistic There’s probably more of us that have got involved in these arguments, I know I have too, but I think that’s a symptom of the problem, it has a butterfly effect drawing us all in. I don’t necessarily think anyone person is at fault or any one view, it’s all certainly down to a problem I find with the written word over the internet and text messages – they lose context, they lose the subtle nuances you’d get from a face to face, the tone of voices, the cheeky smirks, they eye rolls – all those things that let people take things in the way they were intended gets lost (it’s a wider internet problem that’s ridiculously evident on reddit, neogaf,tumblr etc) Its all about how people say what they feel, its fine to offer counter views to people’s opinions and enter discussions, but some people on both sides of this ‘divide’**(well come back to this) are automatically on the defensive, and feel they need to defend X Y and Z – not just Nintendo, other defend the PS4, lets not pretend it’s a one way defence. This I think is partly due to past histories and arguments! Glen-I mentioned how people jump on Serebii and that’s all down to past comments he’s made – the one that sticks in my mind was when the Circle Pad Pro was announced discussion shifted to would Nintendo release an upgraded 3ds down the line incorporating it and Serebii was adamant it wouldn’t happen, for a number or reasons which he passed off as facts* so when the new 3ds was announced that obviously came back to bite him, I’m sure he regrets his adamance (although perhaps not his interpretation of events at the time) now. * Serebii’s use of facts and truths in his posts comes across as arrogance – as I’ve said before this is probably a lot to do with lost nuances with it being the written word, but also I think to a degree his semantics and/or interpretation of facts – one man’s freedom fighter is another mans terrorist so to speak. It’s my understanding that what Serebii passes off as fact are more interpretations and conclusions drawn from other things (and perhaps if he framed it as that he’d get off some of the abuse purely by that inbuilt ambiguity), he keeps up on the industry, looks into statements, investors briefing etc and like a detective draws conclusions, and ‘unfortunately’ (further to feed arrogance) he has been right far far more than he’s been wrong, so he probably does believe with a degree of certainty that he’s right and a ‘truth finder’ That has certainly set up a climate of schadenfreude so when he get it wrong people do take pleasure in pointing it out, some as a gently matey sort of ribbing, others as a more schadenfreude situation where they just have no time for him so do look favourably on it. @Serebii, now I hope I didn’t offend or annoy you too much with that analysis of how I think you post, I have the greatest respect for you and your site (even if its stuck in the 90’s ;p get some flash on there!) and do feel you do get targeted sometimes a little unfairly when you were genuinely being sarcastic, but as I’ve said, sarcasm is lost in text I could try and single out all those I’ve mentioned, I’ve only mentioned serebii because he keeps getting brought up, generally its as I’ve said a case of people being overly defensive based on past instances and assuming the worst from the get go. On to that divide! Seriously we all ALL! Need to drop this us verses them attitude, we do all see it to an extent, even if it’s a genuine belief in this conspiracy or as a joke of the conspiracy, we all see it and need to make an effort to try and stop it continuing, theres no need! None of us need brand loyalty, we are all gamers we are here for the games on any and all formats, if any company does bad we should criticise and we should acknowledge the mistakes, but equally what goes right TL : DR Two things One: When you write a post, don’t hit post, re read it, then re read it in a happy voice, then an angry voice, then a sarcastic voice. Then ask yourself how will it get viewed and see if you can re-word anything so it gets interpreted in the way you intended Two: if you post something and someone disagrees, limit how many times you will go back and forth over a point! Realistically there only needs to be three post over a point; the initial post, the counter post and the “I may/may not agree but accept AND resect your OPINION” post STEALTH EDIT/NOT AN ACTUAL EDIT JUST MORE POSTS SINCE I WROTE WAR AND PEACE People do need to learn when a topic has been done to death NOBODY should be banned here, as I said everyone is equal parts awesome and ass hole
Sheikah Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) http://www.n-europe.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1763405&postcount=11066 He was just stirring, trolling and trying to cause arguments, which is the primary reason Sheikah hangs around the Nintendo board these days. I didn't take it to heart enough to report it at the time, it's not a big deal, I just ignore him (not literally) these days. Haaang on a sec, you said I needed to be spoken to for my 'language'. And you present...this? That is also possibly one of the politest 'reminders' of past behaviour put towards anyone on this forum, ever! For the record, it wasn't trolling at all. I just found it remarkable, genuinely, that you would post a montage of images in exactly the same way I did back when you caused a several page argument about lack of colour in games on other consoles. In that particular topic, I put forward a montage of PS4 games in exactly the same way. You disputed that screenshots were cherry-picked and were not repesentitive of the truth (concerning games you hadn't even played!). I think people should take it in their stride when they get caught out like that, and really, become better people for realising they were probably wrong in the past! Edited June 25, 2015 by Sheikah
flameboy Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) You know what I long since lost my patience with this place. I've taken the time to write lengthy replies and have a balanced debate only to find they get deleted amongst it all. It's largely got to the point where I wonder why I bother posting. I'm not wholly negative Nintendo wise just I do have an alternative as somebody who grew up and desperately wants to have a reason to enjoy Nintendo's output again. Now I just go into threads to make quick quips like I did in Triforce Heroes...it's really weird to me that it's set in a world obsessed with fashion so I said so. I'm not gonna take any time to write at great length any of my issues with the game as a whole because I know I'm going to get shot down so again what's the point? I've been told on more than one occasion that I don't have a Wii U so I have no right to comment which is why I only really write on 3DS threads (a recent exception being StarFox a franchise I love). I mean who says that? It's funny as well there is a sentiment I've held in real life, that when people make personal insults the insulter rarely remembers the insult, it's the person being insulted that gets really hurt and holds that emotion over the incident. The person who throws the insult only ends up remembering the events around it and thinks "oh I was right" it's a form of confabulation to a large extent something we all suffer from. All I know is that I've been personally insulted by multiple users for airing a different opinion, I've had very few if any actual apologies, many of these posts have been lost to time. I've had other members leap to each others defense in the pursuit of facts and outright tell me I'm wrong and if it wasn't for a few select members sending me PMs on here to say don't worry about it and kind of back me up in private I would have long since left this community completely. I've been around here since the beginning (as flameboy and before under a previous guise) and whilst I don't think that means I should be treated in any special way it does hurt that I feel I'm not treated with basis respect like you would someone you know in everyday life. I don't feel like it's always been the case here and that's why I always loved N-E, but hey I suppose the internet is a venomous place. (Also I'd say people that have issues use the ignore button I've used it as a means of self preservation for quite some time now) Edited June 25, 2015 by flameboy
somme Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 I'm planning on buying a PS4 in the coming months, and had a browse through Amazon's PS4 games a couple of days ago. It depressed me how every game looked more and more like the last. The lack of variety was astounding. It almost made me reconsider getting one but then I thought about the indies and games like No Man's Sky, Firewatch and Rime. For starters I don't understand why you want to buy a console you slag off almost every other post, including the one in which you state you're going to buy one. And secondly, you shouldn't use Amazon as a catalogue for PS4 games. They're mostly going to show the most bought ones, mostly. I actually own both a PS4 and a WiiU, so am in a better position to judge the "variety" on both consoles than you are, especially as your research into a console you don't own seems to stretch as far as a single search on Amazon. And lastly, "other console" people tend to only appear negative towards Nintendo because they're disappointed with them these days. I can't speak for everyone but I certainly don't want to dislike anything Nintendo delivers. You, however, seem to lash out at other consoles, especially the PS4, possibly because you feel personally slighted by peoples disappointment with the WiiU. Seems bizarre to me.
Ronnie Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 For starters I don't understand why you want to buy a console you slag off almost every other post, including the one in which you state you're going to buy one. And secondly, you shouldn't use Amazon as a catalogue for PS4 games. They're mostly going to show the most bought ones, mostly. I actually own both a PS4 and a WiiU, so am in a better position to judge the "variety" on both consoles than you are, especially as your research into a console you don't own seems to stretch as far as a single search on Amazon. And lastly, "other console" people tend to only appear negative towards Nintendo because they're disappointed with them these days. I can't speak for everyone but I certainly don't want to dislike anything Nintendo delivers. You, however, seem to lash out at other consoles, especially the PS4, possibly because you feel personally slighted by peoples disappointment with the WiiU. Seems bizarre to me. I went through a dozen pages on amazon and barely found anything of interest, sadly. The majority are either shooters or openworld games. As for your last point, I don't lash out at other consoles because I feel slighted by people's impressions of the Wii U. That would be stupid. I lash out because AAA gaming is so f-ing boring these days and it makes me sad that it only seems to be Nintendo and indie developers who can offer different, innovative experiences.
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