Nintendo & DeNA Business Agreement - Nintendo on Smartphones

[Kav]

@Serebii operates in a similar way to the Zelda timeline..?

[Daft]

He has a worse track record than Pachter :p

[Serebii]

Will you pursue a premium strategy where you charge users up front for games? Or will you offer free-to-play and try to capitalize on in-app purchases?

 

I understand that, unlike the package model for dedicated game systems, the free-to-start type of business model is more widely adopted for games on smart devices, and the free-to-start model will naturally be an option for us to consider. On the other hand, even in the world of smart device apps, the business model continues to change. Accordingly, for each title, we will discuss with DeNA and decide the most appropriate payment method. So, specifically to your question, both can be options, and if a new Nintendo-like invention comes of it, then all the better.

 

On the other hand, Nintendo does not intend to choose payment methods that may hurt Nintendo’s brand image or our IP, which parents feel comfortable letting their children play with. Also, it’s even more important for us to consider how we can get as many people around the world as possible to play Nintendo smart device apps, rather than to consider which payment system will earn the most money.

http://time.com/3748920/nintendo-mobile-games/?xid=tcoshare

 

So it's like Iwata had been saying the past 2 years. They're doing this for exposure, not to get the best profit margin

[liger05]

http://time.com/3748920/nintendo-mobile-games/?xid=tcoshare

 

So it's like Iwata had been saying the past 2 years. They're doing this for exposure, not to get the best profit margin

 

Good to hear that but what happens if the profit margins become too great to ignore?

 

http://www.wired.com/2015/03/nintendo-mobile-analysis/

 

 

 

Nintendo’s Big Mobile Move May Upset a Lot of You

 

-Chris Kohler

 

A few highlights:

 

In other words, it’s looking less and less likely that there is a savior waiting in the wings, some grand plan to juice the popularity of Nintendo’s platforms. The company is preparing for a future in which this is the new normal.

 

Nintendo has been preparing for this, game-design-wise, for a while. Nintendo has not been unmoved by the incredible monetary success and mindshare gains made by free-to-play smartphone games in Japan and around the world. Over the past year, we’ve seen it begin embracing the free-to-play model and experiment with different ways of implementing it across games on its 3DS platform.

 

Rusty’s Real Deal Baseball, released in April, was a series of (very fun, impeccably polished) baseball-themed mini-games you could purchase for cash individually, “haggling” with a store owner to get discounted prices. Earlier this year, Pokemon Shuffle for 3DS mimicked the formula of most free-to-play smartphone games by limiting the amount of “energy” you had every day to play the game, and selling you more plays for real money.

 

No. Nintendo’s going fishing for whales.

 

This announcement was so big that Nintendo had to announce a new console, too. Nintendo has been murmuring about its plans for its next entry in the console market for a while, mostly to point out what it did wrong with Wii U and 3DS: The portable and home console should have shared an architecture, like iPhone and iPad, Iwata has said, noting that the next generation of Nintendo products would do something similar.

 

This is a catastrophic change that will have major, unknowable effects for the rest of Nintendo’s lifespan. Nintendo believes the games made with DeNA will boost demand for its platforms by exposing more consumers to Nintendo games and driving them to buy Nintendo hardware, Iwata said.

 

“By taking this approach, we firmly believe that doing business on smart devices will not shrink our dedicated video game system business and will instead create new demand,” he said.

 

But I also could tell you an equally compelling story about a player who downloads the free mobile Kirby and stops there. Even if she plays it every day for a year, she’s probably in the 98 percent or so of players who never spend a dime on free-to-play games, and are subsidized by the profligate spending habits of the other 2 percent. Do they open their wallets for a premium Kirby experience and a Nintendo NX to go with it? Or did Nintendo, as it feared, cannibalize its audience?

 

 

 

That is what I meant when I said a year ago that you do not get a little bit pregnant. Nintendo is not going to make a huge movement into a fast-growing, financially lucrative segment of the gaming market and then slow-roll it. If mobile turns out to be driving huge profits, it starts to wag the dog. Eventually, from the perspective of some investors or analysts, any slightly underperforming console game is a missed opportunity that should have been mobile.

 

 

In other words, we’ll start to hear “Well, it’s nice, but why isn’t it on my phone?” more often. And as that shift keeps happening, consumers might start finding fewer reasons to buy Nintendo hardware. What that means for Nintendo’s games is anyone’s guess

 

I'm with Chris Kohler on this. While Nintendo maybe looking to try and use it as a method for exposure to try and then get those people to buy Nintendo hardware I think that's a very tough ask.

 

I am guessing games like Rayman and Sonic Dash to great on smartphones but do those people have any intention or desire to play the bigger experience on consoles. Clearly not as those titles don't sell very well.

 

Where Chris mentions that a game that maybe fails to sell the numbers expected on a Nintendo console or handheld people will ask 'why not port it to mobile?'

 

Whether its little steps or just apps designed to generate exposure Nintendo going Mobile will effect its Console/handheld business.

[Serebii]

Good to hear that but what happens if the profit margins become too great to ignore?

 

http://www.wired.com/2015/03/nintendo-mobile-analysis/

 

 

 

 

 

I'm with Chris Kohler on this. While Nintendo maybe looking to try and use it as a method for exposure to try and then get those people to buy Nintendo hardware I think that's a very tough ask.

 

I am guessing games like Rayman and Sonic Dash to great on smartphones but do those people have any intention or desire to play the bigger experience on consoles. Clearly not as those titles don't sell very well.

 

Where Chris mentions that a game that maybe fails to sell the numbers expected on a Nintendo console or handheld people will ask 'why not port it to mobile?'

 

Whether its little steps or just apps designed to generate exposure Nintendo going Mobile will effect its Console/handheld business.

 

Absurd hypotheticals and worst case scenarios.

 

Nintendo's home console and handheld games will be different to their smartphone titles. That will be their answer when people ask that. Plus their policy of not porting their handheld/console games to smartphones.

[khilafah]

Good to hear that but what happens if the profit margins become too great to ignore?

 

http://www.wired.com/2015/03/nintendo-mobile-analysis/

 

 

 

 

 

I'm with Chris Kohler on this. While Nintendo maybe looking to try and use it as a method for exposure to try and then get those people to buy Nintendo hardware I think that's a very tough ask.

 

I am guessing games like Rayman and Sonic Dash to great on smartphones but do those people have any intention or desire to play the bigger experience on consoles. Clearly not as those titles don't sell very well.

 

Where Chris mentions that a game that maybe fails to sell the numbers expected on a Nintendo console or handheld people will ask 'why not port it to mobile?'

 

yeah but some games will just not be playable on mobile. just think about what games you currently play on the 3DS at the moment.

 

how many of them do you feel could actually be replicated and playable with no buttons or control stick.

 

lets not forget the whole pricing model also.

 

tell you what though, this news already had a friend at my work telling me that she wont have to buy another nintendo device for he son as she is under the impression that all nintendo games are going mobile.

[Goafer]

Amateurs. I've been playing Nintendo games on my phone for ages. Emulators are awesome.

[liger05]

Ll

Absurd hypotheticals and worst case scenarios.

 

Nintendo's home console and handheld games will be different to their smartphone titles. That will be their answer when people ask that. Plus their policy of not porting their handheld/console games to smartphones.

 

Not disputing the games will be different. I'm saying people will be content with those games on there phones and it won't make encourage them to buy Nintendo hardware. If people want the hardware they would of bought it already.

 

I have no doubt Iwata will keep the games on mobile and smartphones separate. People will no doubt call for those games on Nintendo hardware to also be on mobile like they do now but it will be increased tenfold as Nintendo now are going mobile.

 

It doesn't matter that such games are not possible for mobile due to price or just the lack of dpad and buttons people will keep calling for more mobile games.

Edited March 18, 2015 by liger05

[khilafah]

Ll

 

Not disputing the games will be different. I'm saying people will be content with those games on there phones and it won't make encourage them to buy Nintendo hardware. If people want the hardware they would of bought it already.

 

I have no doubt Iwata will keep the games on mobile and smartphones separate. People will no doubt call for those games on Nintendo hardware to also be on mobile like they do now but it will be increased tenfold as Nintendo now are going mobile.

 

It doesn't matter that such games are not possible for mobile due to price or just the lack of dpad and buttons people will keep calling for more mobile games.

 

I think the whole help bringing people over to Nintendo hardware should just be ignored. These people are already not interested in Nintendo hardware and releasing Nintendo IP's on mobile/Tablet won't change a thing.

 

Will people who buy Nintendo hardware suddenly stop now that some Nintendo games are on Mobile?

Edited March 19, 2015 by khilafah

[Wii]

Why Nintendo's Smartphone Plan Makes Sense - IGN Conversation

 

 

[Dcubed]

Hearing that Nintendo's developers would be working on those mobile games is just depressing

 

Their staff are already stretched thin as it is... (If it really wasn't going to reduce their "passion" for dedicated hardware/software, they would be ramping up their internal development staff to compensate...)

 

The thought that the likes of Miyamoto, Hideki Konno, Eguichi and Aonuma might end up being reduced to working on mobile crapware just makes me want to cry

 

I also don't see this having the effect that Iwata is saying that they're aiming for. I just can't see someone who might play Mario Endless Runner for free to suddenly go out and spend £200-300 to buy a Nintendo console and the new Mario console/handheld game.

 

It's ultimately just going to satisfy their itch. Quality doesn't matter on mobile - why do you think that every single popular mobile game is free to play? The only things that matters are how well you can exploit human weaknesses and how well you can promote your game.

 

I just see it as the beginning of the end. Quality game design outside of independently developed games has its days numbered This fucking world! Nobody appreciates quality anymore!

Edited March 19, 2015 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

Hearing that Nintendo's developers would be working on those mobile games is just depressing

 

Their staff are already stretched thin as it is...

 

The thought that the likes of Miyamoto, Hideki Konno, Eguichi and Aonuma might end up being reduced to working on mobile crapware just makes me want to cry

 

Mobile games can be good though. I hardly think any of the guys you just listed would be happy to just turn out any old tripe. Nintendo have shown that they are very protective of their brand and IPs and this venture will be no different.

[Dcubed]

Mobile games can be good though. I hardly think any of the guys you just listed would be happy to just turn out any old tripe. Nintendo have shown that they are very protective of their brand and IPs and this venture will be no different.

 

No they can't... Only one type of "game" ever rises to the top and that's the exploitative Skinner box type...

 

Incredibly basic gameplay with no depth (the lacking control methods on offer just offer no scope to create anything with any control depth whatsoever - and the lack of touch screen precision disallows anything like what you saw on the DS like with Kirby Power Paintbrush), but laced with carefully placed imagery and reward schedules to release just the right amount of endorphins to get vulnerable whales to open up their wallets. They're nothing but glorified slot machines in sheep's clothing.

 

Doesn't matter if it's a crappy endless runner or a crappy bejewelled clone, they're all the same

Edited March 19, 2015 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

No they can't... Only one type of "game" ever rises to the top and that's the exploitative Skinner box type...

 

Incredibly basic gameplay with no depth (the lacking control methods on offer just offer no scope to create anything with any control depth whatsoever - and the lack of touch screen precision disallows anything like what you saw on the DS like with Kirby Power Paintbrush), but laced with carefully placed imagery and reward schedules to release just the right amount of endorphins to target whales. They're nothing but glorified slot machines in sheep's clothing.

 

Doesn't matter if it's a crappy endless runner or a crappy bejewelled clone, they're all the same

 

Were talking about two different things here. You're talking about sales, where as i'm talking about the quality of the game. As a Nintendo gamer you should know that game quality doesn't equal great sales.

 

There are probably some great mobile games out there ( I say probably because I don't delve into that market ) and just because they don't reach the heights of something like Candy Crush doesn't lessen their value any.

 

I think there are a few people on here who play mobile games and quite enjoy the experience they have while playing them. I'm sure RedShell listed a few back in last years Nintendo going mobile topic.

[Dcubed]

Were talking about two different things here. You're talking about sales, where as i'm talking about the quality of the game. As a Nintendo gamer you should know that game quality doesn't equal great sales.

 

There are probably some great mobile games out there ( I say probably because I don't delve into that market ) and just because they don't reach the heights of something like Candy Crush doesn't lessen their value any.

 

I think there are a few people on here who play mobile games and quite enjoy the experience they have while playing them. I'm sure RedShell listed a few back in last years Nintendo going mobile topic.

 

But they're not looking to make stuff like that. Pokemon Shuffle is the kind of thing they're going to be aiming at making, not something like Sword and Sorcery.

 

The goal is to gain maximum exposure and to rise to the top of the app charts (as anything else below that is basically invisible). That means lowest common denominator gameplay, maximum psychological manipulation and maximum promotion. It means Candy Crush and Temple Run alikes.

[dazzybee]

Not every single popular game on mobile is free either? Smog's games are never free, Football manager is in the top 10 all year round, same with Minecraft. Most are though, admittedly... but there are exceptions. And maybe Nintendo will bring value back to mobile gaming and not join the race to the bottom!!

[Hero-of-Time]

But they're not looking to make stuff like that. Pokemon Shuffle is the kind of thing they're going to be aiming at making, not something like Sword and Sorcery.

 

The goal is to gain maximum exposure and to rise to the top of the app charts (as anything else below that is basically invisible). That means lowest common denominator gameplay, maximum psychological manipulation and maximum promotion. It means Candy Crush and Temple Run alikes.

 

For arguments sake, let's say they decided to put a proper Pokemon game on mobiles ( Sorry, Serebii. Stay with me here ). You don't think that this game would storm the app charts, despite it not being some puzzle game but being more traditional?

 

Nintendo have very strong brands at their disposal and that alone is their hook.

[Dcubed]

For arguments sake, let's say they decided to put a proper Pokemon game on mobiles ( Sorry, Serebii. Stay with me here ). You don't think that this game would storm the app charts, despite it not being some puzzle game but being more traditional?

 

Nintendo have very strong brands at their disposal and that alone is their hook.

 

They couldn't make a game like that because the only way it could ever make any money is if they designed it like a free to play game. Nobody would ever pay the full retail price that a game like that would demand - the mobile market simply demands bottom tier pricing.

 

Not to mention that it would never control well either and it would also completely devalue the IP - who would buy a 4DS for a new Pokemon game when they can get the "same" experience on mobile?

[khilafah]

Are we all confident that Nintendo will be definitely sticking with dedicated handheld hardware.

 

When I see people saying that they would love to see advance wars for example on mobile that really does worry me.

 

How do you sell dedicated handheld hardware to people when you go and put a game like advance wars on mobile.

 

If Nintendo fans are actually calling for games like AW to be on mobile over dedicated hardware then God damn.. Nintendo is gonna have a tough job resisting these calls.

 

If Nintendo decide to develop one traditional handheld IP for mobile over dedicated hardware then for me that's the day it is game over.

 

Once the gates have been opened there will be nothing to stop more.

Edited March 19, 2015 by khilafah

[Goron_3]

@Dcubed, your reaction to this is incredibly immature. Bloody hell. Nintendo aren't aimed to make stuff like Candy Crush, but games with polish and quality like Rayman Jungle Run.

 

Funnily enough, the best handheld game I've played this year is actually Device 6 on iOS. HIGHLY recommended if you're into visual novels..Kind of wish that Nintendo didn't let CING crash a few years back...

[Hero-of-Time]

They couldn't make a game like that because the only way it could ever make any money is if they designed it like a free to play game. Nobody would ever pay the full retail price that a game like that would demand - the mobile market simply demands bottom tier pricing.

 

Not to mention that it would never control well either and it would also completely devalue the IP - who would buy a 4DS for a new Pokemon game when they can get the "same" experience on mobile?

 

I really doubt it. Just look at how many kids/people buy Pokemon on the 3DS and it still makes a profit. Put that on a mobile, a platform that millions of kids already have access to and jobs done.

 

As for the second paragraph, it's a hypothetical question. Geez.

[Serebii]

Are we all confident that Nintendo will be definitely sticking with dedicated handheld hardware.

 

When I see people saying that they would love to see advance wars for example on mobile that really does worry me.

 

How do you sell dedicated handheld hardware to people when you go and put a game like advance wars on mobile.

 

If Nintendo fans are actually calling for games like AW to be on mobile over dedicated hardware then God damn.. Nintendo is gonna have a tough job resisting these calls.

 

If Nintendo decide to develop one traditional handheld IP for mobile over dedicated hardware then for me that's the day it is game over.

 

Once the gates have been opened there will be nothing to stop more.

Different experiences on smartphones and handhelds. That's how it's going to survive. Will it be as big as the DS and original GameBoy was? No, but there will be a market for it, just like there's still a market for dedicated cameras, dedicated laptops etc. despite the dominance of smartphones with cameras and tablets.

[Hogge]

Absurd hypotheticals and worst case scenarios.

 

Nintendo's home console and handheld games will be different to their smartphone titles. That will be their answer when people ask that. Plus their policy of not porting their handheld/console games to smartphones.

 

But that's the point: what if they earn so much on mobile that they find it difficult to justify maintaining such policies?

 

Initially I tried to keep an open mind and see this positively, but now that I've read more articles on the subject, I'm back to my initial thoughts: for Nintendo fans, this is going to be the worst decision since the botched Super Nintendo CD malarkey.

[Serebii]

But that's the point: what if they earn so much on mobile that they find it difficult to justify maintaining such policies?

 

Initially I tried to keep an open mind and see this positively, but now that I've read more articles on the subject, I'm back to my initial thoughts: for Nintendo fans, this is going to be the worst decision since the botched Super Nintendo CD malarkey.

To do that, they'd have to earn revenue equivalent to 20% of the total current smartphone gaming revenue. Yeah it's expanding and will likely double next year and so forth, but it's a ridiculous amount of marketshare they'd have to have to reach amounts that rival what they earned last year (a bad year) before it's even worth considering.

 

I, too, hate this, but let's not take things to extremes.

[liger05]

To do that, they'd have to earn revenue equivalent to 20% of the total current smartphone gaming revenue. Yeah it's expanding and will likely double next year and so forth, but it's a ridiculous amount of marketshare they'd have to have to reach amounts that rival what they earned last year (a bad year) before it's even worth considering.

 

I, too, hate this, but let's not take things to extremes.

 

Of course but for me the worry is they do earn such revenue and suddenly Mobile becomes key component of their business at the expense of other things.