Serebii

Super Smash Bros. Wii U Direct (23rd October 23:00)

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Consider this. This is a game that they are recommending you get a network adapter for, in order to get more bandwidth, less interference and make it run as fast as possible, but is playable without it.

 

Let's say that it needs a constant 10mbps connection to run well. The game is set to do that, but wait. Some guy wants voice chat on. This then has to be converted and sent across the network, which takes up some of that bandwidth, introducing lag. For a decent voice chat, you need around 1mbps just for that

 

It also adds processing lag to the console. The console is running at a full 1080p60 for this game, and is likely using the RAM and processor like crazy, Having to convert and send all voice at real time would take processing power.

 

As I said, it is simple mathematics. If you still fail to understand that, then I suggest retaking GCSEs.

 

That's all well and fine mate, but you're clearly inconsistent here. You used the bandwidth argument for Mario Kart 8 which, compared to Smash Bros, looks like the most mildly resource intensive software on the Wii U as it didn't need the high latency communication nor did it run in 1080p/60.

 

So, now do you realise that you've effectively ruled that all your chat about the lack of voice chat for MK8 was complete bullshit? Or will you continue to be ignorant to just how much shit you chat?

 

Man, typical Nintendo to take two steps forward and one step back. They drop the 1080p 60fps bomb, but then leave out the greatest social function multiplayer video gaming has ever had. As the saying goes, it's okay when Nintendo do it.

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However, @Sheikah has some real gall attacking @Serebii over the claim that voice chat would affect latency when he tried to argue that 30fps was better than 60fps and backed it up with some dickhead dev who was clearly trying to justify his less than perfectly running game.

 

I never actually said that as a blanket statement; rather that 30 FPS can suit some games better than 60 FPS, especially those gunning for a more cinematic feel. And I wasn't alone in making this statement in the topic, let's not forget. You view the world so hilariously black and white, in the belief that technical prowess always trumps anything else. Let me guess, do you also think Minecraft should be made with realistic graphics? Because fuck the style, amirite? :laughing:

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I never actually said that as a blanket statement; rather that 30 FPS can suit some games better than 60 FPS, especially those gunning for a more cinematic feel. And I wasn't alone in making this statement in the topic, let's not forget. You view the world so hilariously black and white, in the belief that technical prowess always trumps anything else. Let me guess, do you also think Minecraft should be made with realistic graphics? Because fuck the style, amirite? :laughing:

 

>Implying artistic direction is the same as technical prowess.

 

Minecraft's look is down to an artistic direction, but one would be rather disappointed if it didn't run smoothly (which is technical prowess).

 

The point is, you defend games that don't hit certain standards then attack others. I'm saying that games should be all hitting the technical standards - voice chat, 60fps and ideally 1080p too.

 

I do sympathise massively with @Serebii though. He is genuinely far less insulting and more humble. He takes loads of shit and I never see him swear or make personal attacks. Yes he is defending a difficult point and a point I disagree with, but he doesn't stoop to the levels others do or exhibit the double standards.

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>Implying artistic direction is the same as technical prowess.

 

Fuuuuck. I can't be sure, but did the penny just drop with you? Did you just make a distinction between technical prowess and how appearances might also contribute to a 'style'? I am proud.

 

To relate this to the original point: FPS can be an artistic choice. Well, maybe artistic isn't the right word, but at least a 'presentation' choice. The choice between 30 FPS for that weighty, cinematic feel compared to 60 FPS, which may not offer such huge gameplay advantages for that type of game to be the go to choice.

 

 

 

The point is, you defend games that don't hit certain standards then attack others. I'm saying that games should be all hitting the technical standards - voice chat, 60fps and ideally 1080p too.

 

But how can the game developers read your mind to know what these supposed standards are?

 

Curious.

Edited by Sheikah

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I knew that 'no voice chat during fights' would cause a multi-page sh1t storm on here. Can't decide whether to get the popcorn and watch it all go down or just come back to this topic in 5 pages when the conversation finally moves on.

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I knew that 'no voice chat during fights' would cause a multi-page sh1t storm on here. Can't decide whether to get the popcorn and watch it all go down or just come back to this topic in 5 pages when the conversation finally moves on.

 

You and me both.

I'm just gonna go home and play Bayonetta.

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This is probably going to be the only occasion where I pipe in on such matters (I'm not very good, nor interested, in talking "seriously"), but whenever I see... discussions about Nintendo and online here, this always comes to mind (because I like Frasier):

 

 

About a year ago, Super Mario 3D World was getting flack for not having online multiplayer. So that's at least one year people have been having these arguments about Nintendo and their online features (or lack thereof) over and over and over, and I'm pretty confident it's lasted longer than that. Yes, these problems still exist, so yes, seeing dissatisfaction in this regard is to be expected. But do we really need arguments about it that span several pages every time?

 

It's so easy to be negative, particularly on the internet. And don't get me wrong, I'm going to have my criticisms too (nothing can fill the Pokémon Trainer, Squirtle and Ivysaur shaped holes in this game). But at least on this specific occasion, instead of wasting time on these silly arguments, why not talk about some of the good stuff? I mean, it's not like there isn't an abundance of it! Event Matches! Tourneys! Special Smash! Kid Icarus characters (and Chrom) talking about the fighters! Kongo Jungle 64 returns, meaning not only stages that were in Brawl could be returning! There's a Yoshi's Woolly World stage in there, too! And there's over 40 stages (and there's potential for even more, since there's some stages like Pac-Land and Smashville that weren't in the video)! We'll be able to share replays and custom stages with eachother! Mewtwo is going to return!

 

Just... so much stuff. How do they do it? With every game released I think to myself "Look at how much they've managed to cram in! There's no way they could ever top this!" And yet Sakurai and the rest just respond with a [laughs] and prove me wrong. But we ignore all of that and decide to argue about the few things that they didn't put in the game. It's just so disheartening to see time and time again.

 

Right, I think that's enough "serious" talk from myself. I'll be on my merry little way.

 

...This isn't relevant at all. Again, I just like Frasier.

Edited by Sprout

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That's all well and fine mate, but you're clearly inconsistent here. You used the bandwidth argument for Mario Kart 8 which, compared to Smash Bros, looks like the most mildly resource intensive software on the Wii U as it didn't need the high latency communication nor did it run in 1080p/60.

 

So, now do you realise that you've effectively ruled that all your chat about the lack of voice chat for MK8 was complete bullshit? Or will you continue to be ignorant to just how much shit you chat?

 

Man, typical Nintendo to take two steps forward and one step back. They drop the 1080p 60fps bomb, but then leave out the greatest social function multiplayer video gaming has ever had. As the saying goes, it's okay when Nintendo do it.

In hindsight, Mario Kart 8 could have had voice chat and not impact things, yeah. However, with Smash, as it doesn't have extrapolation possibilities, no. Not a damned chance.

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I've said it before; if people can't bear negative discussion then they should put people on their ignore list. Discussion is discussion, and if people want to vent their frustrations then let them. Asking people not to post negative stuff is, ironically, a waste of time in itself. It has been done before and it won't work.

 

In hindsight, Mario Kart 8 could have had voice chat and not impact things, yeah. However, with Smash, as it doesn't have extrapolation possibilities, no. Not a damned chance.

 

So if I load up Skype and Smash runs as smoothly online as it does normally without Skype running, will you admit you're wrong?

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That was a fantastic Nintendo Direct. There's no doubt that I was going to buy the Wii U version, but now the wait is even harder.

 

Insane amount of content too! This game is literally packed to the brim!

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Aren't we supposed to be mad that we clearly saw a Ridley who could be made playable easily and isn't really too big...

 

I mean, they practically made him semi-playable already!!

 

Edit:

And I still don't really understand the Amiibo concept.

Can't they become really over-powered or something?

Edited by Fused King

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Haven't read thread as wanna enjoy watching the direct myself - is there a handy youtube link or other stream to catch up on it? How long was it all in as well? Gonna try and give it a watch when I get home!

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So if I load up Skype and Smash runs as smoothly online as it does normally without Skype running, will you admit you're wrong?

 

He'll change the goal post to the actual most like scenario being that the Wii U's network adapter being completely insufficient. A problem all consoles have admittedly, but Nintendo consoles seem to give me the slowest connections.

 

Aren't we supposed to be mad that we clearly saw a Ridley who could be made playable easily and isn't really too big...

 

He's fucking massive though :laughing:

Edited by Debug Mode
Automerged Doublepost

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He'll change the goal post to the actual most like scenario being that the Wii U's network adapter being completely insufficient. A problem all consoles have admittedly, but Nintendo consoles seem to give me the slowest connections.

 

 

 

He's fucking massive though :laughing:

There's no change. I already said that it's possible to run smoothly if done externally if you have a big enough connection, but having it on the Wii U at the same time is what likely causes the issues.

 

Look. Nintendo said this is why we're not getting it. If it was for safety reasons, they'd have just bloody said so. End of.

 

Haven't read thread as wanna enjoy watching the direct myself - is there a handy youtube link or other stream to catch up on it? How long was it all in as well? Gonna try and give it a watch when I get home!

Just over 35 minutes long

 

Link:

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Look. Nintendo said this is why we're not getting it. If it was for safety reasons, they'd have just bloody said so. End of.

 

U wot m8. Safety reasons?

If anything, I alluded it to being a technological issue due to their choice of network card, and the last thing Nintendo would admit to is the Wii U being underpowered considering that's exactly the reason most of the gaming audience doesn't see Nintendo consoles appealing.

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Haven't read thread as wanna enjoy watching the direct myself - is there a handy youtube link or other stream to catch up on it? How long was it all in as well? Gonna try and give it a watch when I get home!

 

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U wot m8. Safety reasons?

If anything, I alluded it to being a technological issue due to their choice of network card, and the last thing Nintendo would admit to is the Wii U being underpowered considering that's exactly the reason most of the gaming audience doesn't see Nintendo consoles appealing.

I was referring to the previously stated assertion here that it was to "protect" users.

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Woops, looked like I stepped into the Wii U General Discussion thread.

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I'm not going to read the last 2 pages or so but I just want to say how disappointed I am that there is no voice chat during games.

 

What an utterly stupid decision. It's mind boggling that I could use voice chat in 2008/9 whilst playing a game like Street Fighter 4 or even in 2007 during Halo but for Smash I can't. Eugh.

 

Voice chat is just so important for me..it's the same with Mario Kart. I want to be able to interact with the person I'm playing against, particularly if it's someone like @Zell as we grew up playing Melee together. Oh well, Skype it is :(

 

I just want something like Party Chat, which the 360 had way back in 2006 I think, so you can just chat to people regardless of what games each other is playing. It should have been fundamentally part of the Wii U OS.

 

But you know, apart from the lack of voice chat, I was very impressed by this Direct. 8 player Smash!! Just think of the carnage! I realise it's not going to be very often that I'll have 7 other people around to play, but I've got to experience it at least once. Maybe we could do some kind of London N-E Smash meet.

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I just want something like Party Chat, which the 360 had way back in 2006 I think, so you can just chat to people regardless of what games each other is playing. It should have been fundamentally part of the Wii U OS.

 

It's funny that, because it's one of the very few things Microsoft did so right last generation and even they fucked up with implementing it into this generation.

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I've not followed this direct too closely, but I'm going to talk about the things that I do know were confirmed/not confirmed.

 

First of all, Ridley being semi-playable. A classic Nintendo half-measure. Why not just make him fully playable as a character? If they've gone to the effect of putting him in there, why not go the extra mile and put him in full stop? So infuriating because he looks fucking awesome. I'm happy that he's there, but also so bitter.

 

Secondly, voice chat. Previously before owning a non-Nintendo system that wasn't by SEGA, I didn't used to care about voice chat. However, I find it essential now for multiplayer. Battlefield 4 is absolutely essential for voice chat, especially when doing 32vs32 player matches and just for identifying where your team mates are or what the plan is going to be. @kav82, @Sexual Chocolate will all vouch for this. Blade and Kav, remember that last game I played with you both a while back where we defended that base, where we stuck together as a team and took out the opponent's squads one-by-one? That was a classic game, probably the best I played on Battlefield4.

 

Yesterday and for most of this week, we've been playing FIFA15 Pro Clubs. You can have up to 11 on one side and can go against another 11, totally made up of human players. We haven't managed to get 11 from here, but we've had 6 of us N-Europeans, there's potential to have more. Trying to organise the team and direct your friends is much easier with voice chat.

 

It just makes the online experience more human. Otherwise, you may as well be playing against a CPU because there's no real way of enjoying the experience on that human level. Somebody made that comparison before where you go to a restaurant with a friend or lover and you can't talk to them. Absolutely spot on. I want to talk to people from here whilst we're gaming. The Mario Kart experience has been so sterile due to the lack of proper chat during the game, which has in turn made me want to play it less. I want to be able to rub it in when I pull off an awesome move and I want to hear people from here laugh when I inevitably fuck up. Even then, wouldn't it just be more fun to talk about general life whilst you're playing?

 

I'm not surprised that it's not included, but I'm also hopeful that the game itself will run smooth. It has to. Imagine if they didn't add in the voice chat and it STILL ran as laggy as Brawl did, which was absolutely terrible online. I don't know the technical ins and outs (nor do I really care). From an end-user point of view, a gamer, it's disappointing that the feature isn't there.

 

(if only the voice chat was available at an OS level...we'd never have to ask which games support it and which ones don't ever again. ;))

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First of all, Ridley being semi-playable. A classic Nintendo half-measure. Why not just make him fully playable as a character? If they've gone to the effect of putting him in there, why not go the extra mile and put him in full stop? So infuriating because he looks fucking awesome. I'm happy that he's there, but also so bitter.

 

There you go, someone gets it :laughing:

 

Too bad it's the Ridley from Other M though, he looks a bit off...

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Ridley isn't even part-playable, he's a glorified assist trophey, think it's pretty harsh to call it a nintendo half-measure.

 

And yeah the voice chat is annoying, but I do, maybe naively so, genuinely believe they did it to make the online work better. I'll take them on their word as they specifically said it. I will add that the two examples you gave are both co-operative examples so obviously are more important, it would be fun to trash talk or whatever, but for me it isn't a deal breaker.

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There you go, someone gets it :laughing:

 

Too bad it's the Ridley from Other M though, he looks a bit off...

 

What do you mean by the first part? :p

 

I don't mind the Other M model, because then it at least fits in with that stage that you encounter it on. But, still, meh.

 

Ridley isn't even part-playable, he's a glorified assist trophey, think it's pretty harsh to call it a nintendo half-measure.

 

And yeah the voice chat is annoying, but I do, maybe naively so, genuinely believe they did it to make the online work better. I'll take them on their word as they specifically said it. I will add that the two examples you gave are both co-operative examples so obviously are more important, it would be fun to trash talk or whatever, but for me it isn't a deal breaker.

 

It's a half-measure because he's actually in the game and is quite useful, but he's not what many have been calling out for. Why not just put him in there? We've had Solid Snake for goodness sake and now we have Pacman...I'm sure they could get Ridley to work. In fact, I think he looks great but it could have been even better.

 

The two examples I gave are co-operative, sure. But, the fact is that it doesn't matter because the voice chat is at an OS level anyway. So, even if we were playing something like Injustice or going against each other on FIFA, the system is still the same. Nintendo clearly haven't learned in that respect because this is something that has been in place for years and it really should have been done on the OS level. We'd never, ever have to read another discussion about "oh, is voice chat in this game?" if they'd have simply done that. I guess there's still the possibility that it could be added in the future? Maybe?

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