Ubisoft Boycott: 'forced parity' for PS4 versions to be downgraded to Xbone level.

[flameboy]

It took a full week for ms to change their mind after e3. In that time parts of the media were even sympathetic to MS and much more. People not pre ordering the console was pretty clear as well as social media response. The systems still struggles. Also the whole NSA leaks as well them logging your passwords in Windows 10 is not helping. Reputation does matter. It does effect companies like EA too.

 

Who seem to number greater than the amount buying consoles?

 

 

Yet EA still have a number of franchises that sell in the millions regardless...

 

Who seem to number greater than the amount buying consoles....doesn't even make sense?!

[Choze]

Yet EA still have a number of franchises that sell in the millions regardless...

 

Who seem to number greater than the amount buying consoles....doesn't even make sense?!

 

EA had to fix up Sim City's only online feature.

 

EA got punished for BF4, there is hardly any interest in Hardline which has now been delayed. Pc version of BF4 is literally dead in comparison to BF3.

 

After Activison's treatment of PC COD games. They went back on their stances as the games sales are dead on the platform.

 

Blizzard had to remove the Auction junk from Diablo 3.

 

There are countless examples of major publishers staring at defeat.

 

This wont end here. This generation of gamers know they deserve better.

 

 

I am not sure if this is all worth the battering Ubisoft are taking right now. word of mouth spreads and clearly they seem inept. They truly avoided debate.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Choze

[Jonnas]

Except its not meaningless. The PS3 and 360 took over the Wii. Historically the Nintendo handhelds are the only exceptions and that hasnt worked out so well this time round with them being in decline. In this case people are critical of an anti consumer stance. Stuff which Nintendo have also been criticized for. If there has been any trend the past few years is an awakening on to unfriendly consumer practices.

 

I don't think you read my post properly. When I said "meaningless", I was talking about the difference between the PS4 & Xbone, and nothing else.

 

Also, the only "unfriendly consumer practices" that we've "awakened" to recently, are the ones that were also created recently in the first place (DLC abuse, obtrusive DRM measures, etc.). Mind you, Nintendo has been praised of not falling into those practices, so I'm not sure what you're on about.

[flameboy]

EA had to fix up Sim City's only online feature.

 

EA got punished for BF4, there is hardly any interest in Hardline which has now been delayed. Pc version of BF4 is literally dead in comparison to BF3.

 

After Activison's treatment of PC COD games. They went back on their stances as the games sales are dead on the platform.

 

Blizzard had to remove the Auction junk from Diablo 3.

 

There are countless examples of major publishers staring at defeat.

 

This wont end here. This generation of gamers know they deserve better.

 

 

I am not sure if this is all worth the battering Ubisoft are taking right now. word of mouth spreads and clearly they seem inept. They truly avoided debate.

 

You didn't answer what the hell does Who seem to number greater than the amount buying consoles. mean?

 

Blizzard removing the Diablo 3 auction house has nothing to do with this...people still bought the game (multiple times when it hit consoles) and bought the expansion pack, people likely did use the auction house as well so they still made money off it without any damage.

 

BF4 had way bigger issues....AC Unity is likely going to run completely fine with no major bugs...

 

Activision don't care about PC sales compared to console and yes COD is taking a downturn sales wise but it still outsells most games and makes them an absolute truckload of money! Their method of pummeling a franchise into the ground and then moving onto the next thing means it doesn't matter to them...people will carrying on spending the money.

 

Also what is that god awful GIF? Did you make it?! Why is Lord of the Rings being pulled into at a time when that franchise is riding high on Shadow of Mordor.

[Choze]

I don't think you read my post properly. When I said "meaningless", I was talking about the difference between the PS4 & Xbone, and nothing else.

 

Also, the only "unfriendly consumer practices" that we've "awakened" to recently, are the ones that were also created recently in the first place (DLC abuse, obtrusive DRM measures, etc.). Mind you, Nintendo has been praised of not falling into those practices, so I'm not sure what you're on about.

 

Nintendo sure are doing a great job with their account system and protecting yoru purchases.

 

How is the difference between the PS4 and Xbone meaningless? Just curious?

 

You didn't answer what the hell does Who seem to number greater than the amount buying consoles. mean?

 

Blizzard removing the Diablo 3 auction house has nothing to do with this...people still bought the game (multiple times when it hit consoles) and bought the expansion pack, people likely did use the auction house as well so they still made money off it without any damage.

 

BF4 had way bigger issues....AC Unity is likely going to run completely fine with no major bugs...

 

Activision don't care about PC sales compared to console and yes COD is taking a downturn sales wise but it still outsells most games and makes them an absolute truckload of money! Their method of pummeling a franchise into the ground and then moving onto the next thing means it doesn't matter to them...people will carrying on spending the money.

 

Also what is that god awful GIF? Did you make it?! Why is Lord of the Rings being pulled into at a time when that franchise is riding high on Shadow of Mordor.

 

The console war was partially decided on due to the draconian DRM Ms wanted to implemt. Ubisoft are just a small cog in the system compared to platform owners. People will revolt. They will win. Thats what i meant. I am not sure why people are suggessting boycotts do nothing.

 

Blizzard have taken a reptuational knock as of late due to 'money grabbing'. They are working in other ways to make it up for it too.

 

Ubosoft games are hardly the bastions of polish, the pc games have been near unplayable for many. As a PS3 owner i know how rough their games are. So many glitches and frame rate issues. BF4 fully deserved its grilling. But Ubisoft have gotten off lightly in the past.

 

PC games do matter. For fps: See COD, BF and Planetside. All originated on PC. COD is pretty much given up on. BF can still recover but everyone hates EA. Planetside 2 is doing awesome with a release on PS4 this year.

 

Shadow of Mordor is meant ot be great the gif is from neogaf. Its just amusing.

 

Ubisoft relased a statement saying that specs are not final anymore so lets see what happens.

[Jonnas]

How is the difference between the PS4 and Xbone meaningless? Just curious?

 

Spec-wise. Sure, they're going to have different exclusives, and different online services, etc. but when it comes to power, the difference is negligible.

 

Seriously, 900p instead of 1080p. That's what "downgrading" means for these consoles. I highly doubt most customers will care.

[Sheikah]

Seriously, 900p instead of 1080p. That's what "downgrading" means for these consoles. I highly doubt most customers will care.

 

Yup. To be honest, if people really like Assassin's Creed then I think they'd be absolutely batshit crazy to boycott a game in the series because of some missing pixels.

[The Bard]

Why does it matter that "most customers" wouldn't care? Are "most" customers the guys that spend countless hours of their lives on message boards discussing this shit? Why do you expect us to care about "most consumers"? The difference between 900p and 1080p is about a third of the pixel count, which is very very noticeable, not only because of the detail lost, but also because of the increased aliasing. So when you say the difference between the consoles is negligible you'd be right in that I'm sure any game that can run on a PS4 could also run on an XBone, but to actively ask people to be less discerning when their console choice might have been directly influenced by its comparative graphical ability, is dumb.

 

In hardware terms, the PS4 gpu is about 50% more powerful than the Xbone's. A publisher marring the disparity between the two to avoid whatever discussion might occur, or to placate the proprietor of the weaker console is just shoddy, and adds the the impression that Microsoft have little to add besides trying to brute force their way through this gen using their bank balance as a battering ram.

[flameboy]

Why does it matter that "most customers" wouldn't care? Are "most" customers the guys that spend countless hours of their lives on message boards discussing this shit? Why do you expect us to care about "most consumers"? The difference between 900p and 1080p is about a third of the pixel count, which is very very noticeable, not only because of the detail lost, but also because of the increased aliasing. So when you say the difference between the consoles is negligible you'd be right in that I'm sure any game that can run on a PS4 could also run on an XBone, but to actively ask people to be less discerning when their console choice might have been directly influenced by its comparative graphical ability, is dumb.

 

In hardware terms, the PS4 gpu is about 50% more powerful than the Xbone's. A publisher marring the disparity between the two to avoid whatever discussion might occur, or to placate the proprietor of the weaker console is just shoddy, and adds the the impression that Microsoft have little to add besides trying to brute force their way through this gen using their bank balance as a battering ram.

 

It's most people that bankroll these triple A games....unfortunately.

[The Bard]

It's most people that bankroll these triple A games....unfortunately.

 

What difference does that make? Even if they won't notice, we - a sizeable portion of the gaming population - will. My whole problem with the posts above is that we're being expected to ignore our ability to notice these details just because the majority wouldn't. Well so what if they wouldn't? That's no reason why the people who do notice it shouldn't demand it, especially since it takes almost zero effort to implement.

 

I spend my limited time on entertainment software, so why should I waste it on whatever designed-by-committee bullshit is trotted out for the lowest common denominator, and why should I cede to arguments that that's the best I should expect?

[flameboy]

 

What difference does that make? Even if they won't notice, we - a sizeable portion of the gaming population - will. My whole problem with the posts above is that we're being expected to ignore our ability to notice these details just because the majority wouldn't. Well so what if they wouldn't? That's no reason why the people who do notice it shouldn't demand it, especially since it takes almost zero effort to implement.

 

I spend my limited time on entertainment software, so why should I waste it on whatever designed-by-committee bullshit is trotted out for the lowest common denominator, and why should I cede to arguments that that's the best I should expect?

 

You shouldn't and if you choose not to buy this then fair enough stick to exclusives and third party games that make the effort. However calling on people to on mass boycott a game they might enjoy (not saying you have said that, not sure if you did) is ridiculous.

 

At the end of the day games companies are out there to make money and if they thought making the PS4 version clearly better than the Xbox One would hurt total sales across both platforms they are perfectly entitled to make that decision.

[The Bard]

You shouldn't and if you choose not to buy this then fair enough stick to exclusives and third party games that make the effort. However calling on people to on mass boycott a game they might enjoy (not saying you have said that, not sure if you did) is ridiculous.

 

At the end of the day games companies are out there to make money and if they thought making the PS4 version clearly better than the Xbox One would hurt total sales across both platforms they are perfectly entitled to make that decision.

 

Right, but then again, Ubisoft are totally entitled to do whatever they want, including making AC Unity a 16bit Windows 3.1 Exclusive that runs in 320x240. I don't give a shit about their entitlements.

 

And I'm not calling for a mass boycott - anyone who does so for a videogame (short of the Orson Scott Card Shadow Complex shit) is self evidently the most futile person on the planet. The thing is, this is Assassin's Creed. I've played these fucking games to death, and there is almost nothing that I expect the new one to offer me, with the exception of a good looking world I can prance around in. I do - like many people - play a lot of games because of the art work, and the troubles these people go to in creating these worlds. Maybe it's something that comes out of having spent years of my life in school analysing the minutest brush strokes in art class, but this stuff does make a difference to me. If I'm playing these games for little more than the environment, then why would I want a shitty version of that?

[flameboy]

 

Right, but then again, Ubisoft are totally entitled to do whatever they want, including making AC Unity a 16bit Windows 3.1 Exclusive that runs in 320x240. I don't give a shit about their entitlements.

 

And I'm not calling for a mass boycott - anyone who does so for a videogame (short of the Orson Scott Card Shadow Complex shit) is self evidently the most futile person on the planet. The thing is, this is Assassin's Creed. I've played these fucking games to death, and there is almost nothing that I expect the new one to offer me, with the exception of a good looking world I can prance around in. I do - like many people - play a lot of games because of the art work, and the troubles these people go to in creating these worlds. Maybe it's something that comes out of having spent years of my life in school analysing the minutest brush strokes in art class, but this stuff does make a difference to me. If I'm playing these games for little more than the environment, then why would I want a shitty version of that?

 

Your really coming across as pretty entitled yourself....obviously comparing the decision to making a Windows 3.1 is ridiculous....as they aren't gonna make any money from that! I just think it's insane how much people expect from companies!!! They aren't out there to do anyone any favours at the end of the day! As I said I wasn't accusing you of calling for a mass boycott!

 

If it makes a real difference to you go buy a PC all that's holding you back then is the size of your pay packet.

[The Bard]

Your really coming across as pretty entitled yourself....obviously comparing the decision to making a Windows 3.1 is ridiculous....as they aren't gonna make any money from that! I just think it's insane how much people expect from companies!!! They aren't out there to do anyone any favours at the end of the day! As I said I wasn't accusing you of calling for a mass boycott!

 

If it makes a real difference to you go buy a PC all that's holding you back then is the size of your pay packet.

 

I already have a PC, which is where I'll probably be buying this if I buy it at all. Expecting a company not to play politics with shitty proprietors isn't me being entitled dude, it's me distinguishing between "is" and "aught."

 

It boggles the mind how quickly people jump to the defence of large companies that make recycled, low innovation "triple a" software when anyone expects anything of them. The Window's 3.1 comment was me pointing out how useless a discussion about Ubisoft's "entitlements" is.

 

Edit: It's the same problem with PC by the way. If you have and AMD Gpu, ACIV was woefully unoptimised for it compared to Nvidia. I'm pretty much done with Ubi's same old output anyway.

Edited October 8, 2014 by The Bard

[bob]

Wait, are we boycotting the Xbone version or just the PS4 one? Cause I was probably going to end up buying the former.

[Jonnas]

Why does it matter that "most customers" wouldn't care? Are "most" customers the guys that spend countless hours of their lives on message boards discussing this shit? Why do you expect us to care about "most consumers"?

 

Even in this very thread, only a handful of people seem to be bothered by it. Sure, this is a Nintendo forum, so not the best sample (Hell, I myself am having a grand time with an outdated PC, a Wii and a PS2, while occasionally playing GB roms on my phone).

 

Point is, I was talking about this potential boycott, and how much good it will do.

 

If you think I was defending Ubisoft, you're wrong. I'm just saying this is pretty much the pettiest battle the consumers could pick. We've seen things like the Rayman Legends fiasco (hurting the Wii U version over a launch agreement with Microsoft), Namco being (allegedly) moneyhatted into originally making Tales of Vesperia exclusive to X360 (in retrospect, it was still a bizarre decision from them) or that thing where Soul Calibur 2 sold the best on the Gamecube, so the sequel is naturally PS2-exclusive, no reason given. And this without touching general issues like console-exclusive content if you pre-order now!

 

But a 180p drop is what causes indignation? Come on, now.

 

adds the the impression that Microsoft have little to add besides trying to brute force their way through this gen using their bank balance as a battering ram.

 

What do you mean "this gen"? Microsoft have been moneyhatting companies since the Tales of Vesperia days (probably even earlier, but I wasn't paying attention to them back in the Gamecube days).

 

(Also, as a side-note, ever since they went back on all of those awful decisions at the reveal, I have absolutely no idea what is it that the Xbox One is offering that makes it stand out from the competition, either)

 

The difference between 900p and 1080p is about a third of the pixel count

 

(180p isn't even a third of 900p, much less 1080p )

[The Bard]

@Jonnas, it's not a battle because Ubisoft are going to do whatever they want. It's a case of consumers choosing not to spend their money on damaged goods.

 

Also as for 900p not being a third less than 1080p? Do the maths:

 

1920x1080 = 2,073,600

1600x900 = 1,440,000

 

633,600 pixels is the difference. 633,600/2,073,600 = 0.305.

 

Very slightly less than a third.

[Mr-Paul]

If Ubisoft designed it to run at 900p and not 1080p, does that really make it damaged goods? Surely it must is easier for them to make all versions run at the same resolution. Sure, it may be possible for them to get it running at higher res on PS4, but is it really worth it for them, the amount of extra work it will take for something that probably won't gain it any more sales than if it is at 900p on both consoles?

[Daft]

The fact they patched AC4 to run at 1080p suggests it really isn't that hard. Not to mention that a couple months ago they said they were aiming for that.

[The Bard]

If Ubisoft designed it to run at 900p and not 1080p, does that really make it damaged goods? Surely it must is easier for them to make all versions run at the same resolution. Sure, it may be possible for them to get it running at higher res on PS4, but is it really worth it for them, the amount of extra work it will take for something that probably won't gain it any more sales than if it is at 900p on both consoles?

 

The whole point of this thread is that it wouldn't take extra work, since this is a case of enforced parity, not natural parity. Look to every other instance of multi-platform release this generation and you'll see that with both versions released on the same date, the PS4 version always performs at better frame rates and at higher resolutions.

 

Ubisoft are doing this just because Microsoft are somehow incentivising it or coercing them, not because the design team figure "hey, let's hamstring this game we've spent the last three years making."

 

Also, my argument is that I don't actually care if it takes extra work. Maybe it does - but if everyone else can do it, so can Ubisoft. If the XBone runs it at 900p, I guarantee you that the PS4 can run it at 1080p (With a minimum of extra work, since the PS4s GPU is mathematically 50% more powerful). You're saying that it must be "easier" for them as if that amounts to any sort of argument other than that we should let their shit slide, because laziness is some sort of virtue.

 

This is the problem with this forum; almost everyone looks at games from the perspective of sales, or the business angle, as if that's the sole lens through which you can understand games.

[Jonnas]

it's not a battle because Ubisoft are going to do whatever they want. It's a case of consumers choosing not to spend their money on damaged goods.

The movement that opened this thread is a protest, which is the "battle" I was talking about. Ubisoft will do what they want because this protest will achieve nothing that'll make Ubisoft care.

Also as for 900p not being a third less than 1080p? Do the maths:

 

1920x1080 = 2,073,600

1600x900 = 1,440,000

 

633,600 pixels is the difference. 633,600/2,073,600 = 0.305.

 

Very slightly less than a third.

 

I stand corrected, then. I do still think it's a small difference, but hey, I'm me.

 

This is the problem with this forum; almost everyone looks at games from the perspective of sales, or the business angle, as if that's the sole lens through which you can understand games.

 

...This thread opened with a call for a boycott, which I (and others) interpreted as "Let's not buy this game, and let Ubisoft know". Every mention of sales thus far was exclusively used in the angle of "Will Ubisoft care? Will this work?"

 

Mind you, mr-paul asked a genuine question ("Is it viable for them to do what you want them to do?"), and you answered with "Your post represents what is wrong with this forum". Did I read it right?

Edited October 8, 2014 by Jonnas
Automerged Doublepost

[The Bard]

You're right, Ubisoft likely won't care, which is why I think the "mass boycott" aspect of this discussion is ridiculous to begin with, and also why I wasn't really addressing it, but thinking more along the lines of whether this is a good precedent for consumers. As for it being a small difference, did you for example, not notice the difference between the PS2 and GC versions of RE4? It's literally worse than that.

 

No offence meant to Mr-Paul either, it's more a general frustration that I find little is really talked about here outside the business aspect.

 

Anyway, is anyone actually excited for this or Far Cry? I feel like I've seen so little that makes a difference in these games other than the application of Cliff Bleszinski's much overused catchphrase.

Edited October 8, 2014 by The Bard

[Jonnas]

As for it being a small difference, did you for example, not notice the difference between the PS2 and GC versions of RE4? It's literally worse than that.

 

Only when looking at comparison screenshots. Never would've said one was worse than the other without them. And even then, which one is slightly-better depends on the screenshot.

[The Bard]

That's fair enough, and another reason why I wasn't speaking about "most consumers" but about myself and people who are pedantic about this stuff.

[Mr-Paul]

No offence taken, it was a genuine question as I have no idea on the technical side of stuff - how much extra work is it to create what is 30% more pixels? Surely if you're displaying at a higher resolution, all the assets used in the game need creating at a higher level of detail? Or is it as simple as you say? I hadn't known of them patching in 1080p support in the previous version, so thought this was simply people moaning that both versions are the same when the PS4 version has the potential to be more visually impressive.

 

No way do I think it's ok for developers to just do the bare minimum, but with a franchise that is released yearly, my question was, surely it is more important to prioritise on other areas than worrying about getting a game running at different levels of performance when on a tight timescale? Is this them scaling it down on PS4 to match the Xbox One, or just not bothering to take full advantage of PS4 where it could have?

 

Either way, I think boycotts are silly, and if you're interested in the game, this really isn't going to stop you buying it.