Do Nintendo still have what it takes to produce hardware?

[Sheikah]

Easy, you don't play the game on it. You use it in some mini game esque way, swiping things out the way or menu/map navigation (like wind waker map charting).

 

Playing on a smaller screen is hardly something most people need or want, what with most people having multiple TVs or wanting to play games on glorious HD TVs. Reasonable feature, sure, but I don't think they can justify it as a main console feature.

[dazzybee]

Exactly. The gamepad can do a lot more than that. So it isn't the same. Plus, we all know devices as options won't get the support something standard will. At the end of this generation, the Wii u will house the best examples of two screen gameplay. I dont know how this is even a debate.

[Clownferret]

Easy, you don't play the game on it. You use it in some mini game esque way, swiping things out the way or menu/map navigation (like wind waker map charting).

 

Playing on a smaller screen is hardly something most people need or want, what with most people having multiple TVs or wanting to play games on glorious HD TVs. Reasonable feature, sure, but I don't think they can justify it as a main console feature.

 

so a tablet can't do what the gamepad can do other than displaying a map. Your logic astounds me. You berate Nintendo for the gamepad as being expensive, you justify it by saying a £400 tablet could do the same job and then when it is pointed out that in fact it can't you just brush it aside. How can you play 2 player COD using two tv's?

[Retro_Link]

Exactly. The gamepad can do a lot more than that. So it isn't the same. Plus, we all know devices as options won't get the support something standard will. At the end of this generation, the Wii u will house the best examples of two screen gameplay. I dont know how this is even a debate.

Considering the Wii U probably has 2 years left in it and the PS4/Xbone 5... I don't think you can really say that with any certain. But it is highly likely Zelda or hopefully a New IP (one of these 'Gamepad E3 games') will be that game as it was for Motion Controls.

[dazzybee]

Considering the Wii U probably has 2 years left in it and the PS4/Xbone 5... I don't think you can really say that with any certain. But it is highly likely Zelda or hopefully a New IP (one of these 'Gamepad E3 games') will be that game as it was for Motion Controls.

 

I'm pretty certain those consoles won't get anything like the games already out on the Wii u never mind future games (with promises of software that really shows it off). I don't think a game like Nintendoland will ever be there, I don't zombiU would, or bumpies part or wario ware, or anything that is close to as good as off tv play (vita is the closest thing to it, but that's not as good and an expensive version of it). Or 5 player sonic racing. Or two player on two devices cod.

 

And the biggest one of all, I don't think any game on those systems will ever be able to recreate the horn from mario kart.

[Sheikah]

so a tablet can't do what the gamepad can do other than displaying a map. Your logic astounds me. You berate Nintendo for the gamepad as being expensive, you justify it by saying a £400 tablet could do the same job and then when it is pointed out that in fact it can't you just brush it aside. How can you play 2 player COD using two tv's?

 

I've noticed this with you a lot; you need to make your points in a less absurd manner.

 

When you say things like 'it's four times the price' or 'a £400 tablet', do you know what happens? People instantly switch off, because you're dramatically over-exaggerating to make the thing you're loyal to seem like a far better option. It is completely antagonistic to your cause.

 

A tablet can do everything the gamepad is supposed to do. I say that because the gamepad is supposed to be used in an inventive way, as a supplement to the TV screen running the main game. Yes, it can be used to play the actual game off it, but then the very reason it was touted as delivering new experiences is effectively diminished (as remote device play means it really just becomes a TV screen, which is neither new in itself nor is it offering any new sort of new gameplay experience).

 

So while you can argue the gamepad lets you play off screen unlike a tablet, I can argue that most people already have multiple TVs for taking the game elsewhere, so that's not really a big deal. The real point is that it is supposed to enhance games you play on TV, which a tablet can do. When I navigated the map while sailing my boat in Wind Waker, buttons may as well not have existed.

[dazzybee]

I've noticed this with you a lot; you need to make your points in a less absurd manner.

 

When you say things like 'it's four times the price' or 'a £400 tablet', do you know what happens? People instantly switch off, because you're dramatically over-exaggerating to make the thing you're loyal to seem like a far better option. It is completely antagonistic to your cause.

 

A tablet can do everything the gamepad is supposed to do. I say that because the gamepad is supposed to be used in an inventive way, as a supplement to the TV screen running the main game. Yes, it can be used to play the actual game off it, but then the very reason it was touted as delivering new experiences is effectively diminished (as remote device play means it really just becomes a TV screen, which is neither new in itself nor is it offering any new sort of new gameplay experience).

 

So while you can argue the gamepad lets you play off screen unlike a tablet, I can argue that most people already have multiple TVs for taking the game elsewhere, so that's not really a big deal. The real point is that it is supposed to enhance games you play on TV, which a tablet can do. When I navigated the map while sailing my boat in Wind Waker, buttons may as well not have existed.

 

You're doing exactly what you're criticising clown of doing, absurd justifications of opinion... You're using broad phrases to support. Yeah you can have new experiences that could be done on a tablet - mario and rayman stuff etc. but with sticks and buttons the options open up even further, offering even more (and more substantial) ways of playing. Nintendoland could be do e as well on a tablet, not even close. Even the really basic uses won't be as good, you complain enough about looking down to look at stuff, imagine having to pick up a different device altogether to change inventories, lay down map markers. There is no comparison and it's painful to see you desperately try and make out they're pretty much the same....

 

Also, I do t know why people dismiss off tv play so much. Yeah people have multiple teles, but who's going to want keep moving their Wii u about? Maybe someone wants to play in bed? Maybe some prefers using the gamepad? Yes you have handhelds and other options. But this console offers them all! In one package. Far cheaper than the stuff you'd need to do it all on another console. Not much used to you? Fine? Not much use to the masses? Fine. But why dismiss it and make out you can do it just as we'll elsewhere when the functionality and price aren't comparable?

[Sheikah]

Even the really basic uses won't be as good, you complain enough about looking down to look at stuff, imagine having to pick up a different device altogether to change inventories, lay down map markers. There is no comparison and it's painful to see you desperately try and make out they're pretty much the same....

 

Not difficult in the slightest. The idea of that being an issue to you is pretty amusing. I'm always checking my tablet during gaming anyway.

 

I'll tell you what is more difficult - having a fat controller that feels like ass in your hands for hours on end.

[markderoos]

The real point is that it is supposed to enhance games you play on TV, which a tablet can do. When I navigated the map while sailing my boat in Wind Waker, buttons may as well not have existed.

 

I don't agree with you on this part. For example an iPad - PS4 combi can't recreate the Luigi's Mansion/Metroid Blast gameplay, can it?

 

That's why I keep saying Nintendo need to show more examples of these gameplay elements and within more IP's aimed at core gamers.

[dazzybee]

Not difficult in the slightest. The idea of that being an issue to you is pretty amusing. I'm always checking my tablet during gaming anyway.

 

I'll tell you what is more difficult - having a fat controller that feels like ass in your hands for hours on end.

 

I'm not saying it's an issue. I'm saying I think it's funny you have critisised two screen gameplay in the past as - who wants to look down at the screen (apologies if this wasn't you but sure it was), yet are fine to pick up another device altogether to do the same thing.

 

The controller feels great too for me. Prefer it then the pro controller.

 

What about the rest of my post?

[Sheikah]

Fuck no, I'd rather have it on screen. I am saying the alternative is there (tablet) for games that want to do that. And while it's not difficult to look down at a tablet (no more than a gamepad), I'd still prefer it on screen. But that's just me.

 

I dismiss off TV mostly because the gamepad is so poor quality. I deliberately didn't play Wind Waker HD on it because it looked atrocrious compared to my HDTV. Like, I'd never dream of playing any game that looks nice on it. Fair enough if you don't care about how a game looks, but I do, so I will never argue in favour of using the thing for that purpose.

[markderoos]

I am saying the alternative is there (tablet) for games that want to do that.

 

I don't think that's true, just like I said in my former post. Could you explain to me why you find a PS4-iPad combo to be an alternative for Wii U while playing a concept like Luigi's Ghost Manion or Metroid Blast on Nintendoland?

 

I just don't think that's possible on the same level (yet). And even if it would become possible in the future, I don't think gamedevelopers would risk making such a game on those platforms.

[Retro_Link]

I'm pretty certain those consoles won't get anything like the games already out on the Wii u never mind future games (with promises of software that really shows it off). I don't think a game like Nintendoland will ever be there, I don't zombiU would, or bumpies part or wario ware, or anything that is close to as good as off tv play (vita is the closest thing to it, but that's not as good and an expensive version of it). Or 5 player sonic racing. Or two player on two devices cod.

 

And the biggest one of all, I don't think any game on those systems will ever be able to recreate the horn from mario kart.

True, True.

 

I think there will be examples of two screen gaming that we wish would be on/coming to Wii U, but perhaps no one will take it as far as Nintendo will and perhaps have done so already.

 

And yes, DAT HORN!

[dazzybee]

Fuck no, I'd rather have it on screen. I am saying the alternative is there (tablet) for games that want to do that. And while it's not difficult to look down at a tablet (no more than a gamepad), I'd still prefer it on screen. But that's just me.

 

I dismiss off TV mostly because the gamepad is so poor quality. I deliberately didn't play Wind Waker HD on it because it looked atrocrious compared to my HDTV. Like, I'd never dream of playing any game that looks nice on it. Fair enough if you don't care about how a game looks, but I do, so I will never argue in favour of using the thing for that purpose.

 

Oh I'm not saying I do t care how it looks. I wouldn't play Zelda on the gamepad either, it looked glorious in the tele. But for me I actually prefer playing all VC and come eshop games on the gamepad. And some games I love playing in the gamepad while I watch football or something. They're just nice options.

 

True, True.

 

I think there will be examples of two screen gaming that we wish would be on/coming to Wii U, but perhaps no one will take it as far as Nintendo will and perhaps have done so already.

 

And yes, DAT HORN!

 

Yeah no doubt. Something like the order, maybe even watch dogs, there'll be (I hope) some great examples of it, I personally find it quite exciting. But really excited to see what Nintendo and miamoto come up with at e3.

[Kav]

And none of you own smartphones?

 

Funnily enough the majority of us don't, although I do.

[Mr-Paul]

For those saying a tablet can do all that the GamePad can do, i think you're missing out the fact the GamePad is 2 devices in one. Try holding an iPad and a PS4 controller while trying to play a game - pretty much impossible! Even if you don't feel what the GamePad offers is worth it, you cannot say that the second screen experience you'll get with the other consoles plus a tablet matches that of the Wii U.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Mr-Paul

[Miharin]

I have to say that using a tablet while gaming is super cumbersome, and since the Gamepad has the screen integrated that's the only way for it to be meaningful. I've played MGS V Ground Zeroes a little bit with the iPad as it supports using that as the map screen, but it's not that great. Now, if the game supported playing with PSVita it would be great!

[Daft]

For those saying a tablet can do all that the GamePad can do, i think you're missing out the fact the GamePad is 2 devices in one. Try holding an iPad and a PS4 controller while trying to play a game - pretty much impossible! Even if you don't feel what the GamePad offers is worth it, you cannot deny that the second screen experience you'll get with the other consoles plus a tablet matches that of the Wii U.

 

But then you ignore the advantages of having a separate device. You can take it anywhere. It doesn't effect the controller in any ergonomic way. The screen is much better quality. The fact it is separate means that asycronous gaming with another player is arguably easier since you don't need a second controller. It doesn't drain the controller's power. It also has its own processor meaning it takes way less resources on the console's end.

 

I don't think anyone said it was exactly the same. I would say it was a better implementation of technology, though.

 

The writing is on the wall, though; Nintendo still haven't come up with any killer use for the Game Pad and pretty much every use mentioned so far is...gimmicky. In fact, they're both gimmicky, but the other consoles didn't centre themselves around this gimmick.

[liger05]

Personally I have very little intrest in what Nintendo has offered with the gamepad and look forward to getting a pro controller. At the same time I have no interest in the companion apps via smartphone/tablets. I see very little of how they actually enhance a game.

 

I 'm more than happy with one screen.

[markderoos]

But then you ignore the advantages of having a separate device. You can take it anywhere. It doesn't effect the controller in any ergonomic way. The screen is much better quality. The fact it is separate means that asycronous gaming with another player is arguably easier since you don't need a second controller. It doesn't drain the controller's power. It also has its own processor meaning it takes way less resources on the console's end.

 

You are aware that with (for example) Assassins Creed 4, the Wii U version also makes use of the companion app? So that means triple screen

So the advantage of a seperate device isn't an argument against the Wii U. It counts for all consoles, including Wii U.

 

But meh, Gamepad, you like it, or you don't it seems

This discussion isn't going anywhere but round and round...

[Mr-Paul]

But then you ignore the advantages of having a separate device. You can take it anywhere. It doesn't effect the controller in any ergonomic way. The screen is much better quality. The fact it is separate means that asycronous gaming with another player is arguably easier since you don't need a second controller. It doesn't drain the controller's power. It also has its own processor meaning it takes way less resources on the console's end.

 

 

 

I don't think anyone said it was exactly the same. I would say it was a better implementation of technology, though.

 

 

 

The writing is on the wall, though; Nintendo still haven't come up with any killer use for the Game Pad and pretty much every use mentioned so far is...gimmicky. In fact, they're both gimmicky, but the other consoles didn't centre themselves around this gimmick.

 

 

But taking it everywhere isn't the point of what the GamePad is offering, and the companion app stuff is just as possible on the Wii U as the other two. Yes, you could have asymmetric gameplay via a tablet and a console, but a tablet doesn't have anywhere near as much control as a GamePad - it doesn't have any buttons! And I'm not sure on the specifics, but the lag via wifi by using a tablet for full gameplay (rather than being used for a map, for example) can't match the Wii U plus GamePad.

 

I'm not saying that Nintendo have taken advantage of these benefits enough, they really haven't outside of Nintendo Land. But used to its full potential, the GamePad's second screen is much better for gameplay than a console plus tablet combo.

[Daft]

I know that's not the point of the Game Pad, I'm just saying that's an advantage of this other method. As for control, I don't think the functionally involved in a lot of second screen implementation needs as much fidelity as a controller. And as for lag, we'll it's not been an issue so I don't see how it will suddenly become one. If anything it will improve. Got to remember, by the end of the year, you'll be able to stream full games off a remote server - I imagine streaming across a local network is vastly easier.

 

You are aware that with (for example) Assassins Creed 4, the Wii U version also makes use of the companion app? So that means triple screen

So the advantage of a seperate device isn't an argument against the Wii U. It counts for all consoles, including Wii U.

 

But meh, Gamepad, you like it, or you don't it seems

This discussion isn't going anywhere but round and round...

 

Of course I'm aware of that. I'm not saying it's an advantage of the other consoles. I'm saying it's the best implementation of that kind of tech.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Why is everyone talking about the controller? Nobody was really blown away when it was shown, very few people were blown away at launch and I don't think many care about it now. At least, that's how I feel about it. It adds very little. It creates more problems than it solves.

 

What about the rest of the machine? Another day, another big game (Far Cry 4) that isn't coming to Wii U. It's disappointing. To me, this matters more than Nintendo finding a way to make the GamePad work, because the Wii U isn't getting the games. It's a bad, bad sign of things to come and I can only see it getting worse.

 

If things are bad now, how are they going to get better for the next machine? The third parties aren't going to suddenly start flooding back unless there's a reason for them to come. Nintendo are quickly developing a label that they can't seem to shake off; that they don't make games for the core gamer. There almost seems to be two different forms of Nintendo; Oldtendo who made classics like Ocarina of Time and Newtendo, which has existed for most of the last decade.

[markderoos]

Of course I'm aware of that. I'm not saying it's an advantage of the other consoles. I'm saying it's the best implementation of that kind of tech.

 

Ok, so what you're saying is, when it comes to second screen gameplay, the Wii U is capable of the exact same stuff as the rivaling consoles. But WITH a gamepad with buttons and extra technology as an extra?

 

So that must mean that you are just not fond of assymatric gameplay? Or at least not fond enough that you like that the Wii U is build around that idea?

 

Why is everyone talking about the controller? Nobody was really blown away when it was shown, very few people were blown away at launch and I don't think many care about it now. At least, that's how I feel about it. It adds very little. It creates more problems than it solves.

 

What about the rest of the machine? Another day, another big game (Far Cry 4) that isn't coming to Wii U. It's disappointing. To me, this matters more than Nintendo finding a way to make the GamePad work, because the Wii U isn't getting the games. It's a bad, bad sign of things to come and I can only see it getting worse.

 

If things are bad now, how are they going to get better for the next machine? The third parties aren't going to suddenly start flooding back unless there's a reason for them to come. Nintendo are quickly developing a label that they can't seem to shake off; that they don't make games for the core gamer. There almost seems to be two different forms of Nintendo; Oldtendo who made classics like Ocarina of Time and Newtendo, which has existed for most of the last decade.

 

As soon as Playstation joined the console market, third parties jumped aboard. The Playstation philosophy was always aimed at getting as much third parties aboard as possible. From that moment Nintendo never got a lot of third party support. That's not something only happening this generation.

 

Nintendo builds their software around their hardware, and try to swim in the blue ocean. Third parties develop for the mass market. The mass market is the red ocean.

 

Isn't it just that simple?

[Fierce_LiNk]

Ok, so what you're saying is, when it comes to second screen gameplay, the Wii U is capable of the exact same stuff as the rivaling consoles. But WITH a gamepad with buttons and extra technology as an extra?

 

So that must mean that you are just not fond of assymatric gameplay? Or at least not fond enough that you like that the Wii U is build around that idea?

 

 

 

As soon as Playstation joined the console market, third parties jumped aboard. The Playstation philosophy was always aimed at getting as much third parties aboard as possible. From that moment Nintendo never got a lot of third party support. That's not something only happening this generation.

 

Nintendo builds their software around their hardware, and try to swim in the blue ocean. Third parties develop for the mass market. The mass market is the red ocean.

 

Isn't it just that simple?

 

That's lovely.

 

I don't give a shit about any of that, though. I just want to play games on my fucking Wii U, including third party games that Nintendo promised were coming. That's what it comes down to.