#07 - N-Europe: Let's Talk Games (Metroid: Other M)

[Oxigen_Waste]

So Prime sacrificed nothing? Screw attack, shine spark, wall jumps, speed boost.

 

That's like saying a Zelda wouldn't be Zelda without a boomerang or bombs. Mechanics/items aren't the same as gameplay. The gameplay in Prime manages to be incredibly functional and intuitive and it preserves all true Metroid gameplay elements: the exploration (which was improved upon, even), the platforming (which did feel inferior, I'll grant you that much), the item-gathering and the shooting/combat (which was also vastly improved upon). Beyond maintaing the gameplay, it even managed to refine the way those elements interact with each other! Stuff like the scan and on-the-fly weapon changing significantly enchanced the exploration and combat.

Yeah, you lost a couple of essentially meaningless mechanics (which was a wise decision, as proven by the awkward screw attack mechanic introduced in the sequels), but you gained some new ones, too (like the visors... which, again, enhanced both the exploration and the combat)... and more importantly, the elements that were provided managed to be in complete balance and harmony while implemented in a gorgeous, moody, incredibly atmospheric and fully-realized game world which also happens to be a masterclass in level design. Did I mention the soundtrack is an absolute masterpiece? As are the presentation, graphics, sound design and art direction

 

A checklist of "usual suspects" does not a Metroid make, what truly matters is the spirit and the core gameplay elements... and in that regard, Prime was 100 times more Metroid than Other M will ever manage to be.

 

Your train of thought is the opposite of mine. You want the familiar faces, I want the familiar feelings... and no other Metroid game has ever come closer to feeling like Super Metroid than Metroid Prime. Well... Zero Mission is pretty damn close, too.

Other M felt like an unnecessary Hollywood remake.

 

Prime is so good it hurts knowing it will never happen again. And now I wish I had the Trilogy so I could replay it. Sadly, I don't and my GC is far, far away. I guess I'll just go visit the soundtrack again.

 

Speaking of which, this gives me chills... every. damn. time.

 

Bear in mind that I did like Other M, but it just cannot begin to even compete. This song alone is better than every good idea Other M had in it combined.

 

Ways to improve for a sequel: more isolation, better story, no pixel hunting, nunchuk support, button press to change between perspectives as opposed to constantly turning the remote, free movement in 1st person view. Some new abilities would be nice. Also consider what I've said elsewhere about 3rd person view on TV and 1st person on the gamepad.

 

The only improvement over the Prime formula I'd want for any future 3D Metroid would be an overhaul of the platforming. Take some cues from Mirror's Edge (which proved beyond any reasonable doubt that platforming in first person CAN be more than functional, it can be amazing! Even though the game was incredibly limited in it's scope) and just refine everything else. It was the only regard in which Prime felt lacking in the slightest.

 

Change the hud and mechanics to make sure platforming and action never limit each other but become a functioning symbiosis, instead. Something as simple as "hiding" the combat interface behind a toggle/hold of a shoulder button would be enough.

 

Also, get rid of the fluff from Other M and Prime 3. Don't fuck with the formula to make it less unique, make it MORE unique... but don't be affraid to get a scalpel and go back to the drawing board, either!

 

While I love the Prime series, it's not really right to say that it preserved everything. Retro did have to sacrifice the agility and fast paced platforming that defined the 2D games in order for the game to work in 1st person (of course it gained a lot for doing so, but it was still a necessary sacrifice).

 

That's something that wasn't really brought into 3D at all until Metroid Other M. The gameplay format is much closer to the 2D games than Prime was and indeed that was absolutely Sakamoto's intention. It was meant to be like "An NES Game with the Latest Technology" after all!

 

Aye, the platforming did suffer. But Other M didn't do any better with it, if we're being honest. Same old shit hiding behind a new cover of paint isn't appealing, imo, and while the absolutely retarded decision to go with Wiimote-only controls is partly to blame, the fact is it just wasn't that good.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Oxigen_Waste

[EEVILMURRAY]

Retrospectively if I actually think about the story I would 100% agree with the criticism levelled at it, it's just not something I paid much attention to while I was playing the game so it didn't detract from my enjoyment of it. I do realise I'm very much in the minority as generally I do not care about storyline in most games, so just wanted to offer a different perspective on things.

 

Don't get me wrong, I also care about the story of games. But Other M had a storyline so cringeworthy...

[Sméagol]

Having still a large backlog of Wii games I need to get, this is one of games missing. And, from the top of my head, only 1 of 2 games total in the Metroid franchise that I don´t own in some form (I miss Metroid 2, I don´t own a physical NES copy of Metroid, and I need to replace my damned French/German Super metroid copy for a UK one sometime. I´ll get to all of them eventually).

 

Anyway, when I get this I fully expect to enjoy it in general, but since it´s release, I couldn´t fathom why they used the d-pad for 3D movement, and why they included FPS bits in a mostly sidescrolling game. I expect to either get frustrated by the 3D movement controlled with the d-pad, or to simply ignore 3D movement at all, pretending it´s not even option. Then again, I haven´t played the game, I have no idea how essential this 3D movement actually is. I mean, I get you can sometimes change directions, but I assume most of the game is sidescrolling? Anyway, I´ll find out for myself one day. It´s not the highest priority title I still need to get on the Wii.

[Jonnas]

I haven't played this game, but I will say this: when it was first revealed, I was ecstatic. An action game set in the Metroid universe sounded really good, but as it turns out, it wasn't that at all, it seemed it was instead a new attempt at bringing Metroid to 3D, but only superficial aspects of it. This was far more unappealing to me (hence why I haven't bothered with the game).

 

The idea (that someone brought in another thread) that Platinum should do a Metroid action game actually sounds like what I wanted this game to be, though.

[Retro_Link]

I don't really want to write too much about this game (and thankfully a lot has already been said by others), because this was one of the worst games I've ever played.

 

That's not to say it's one of the worst games ever made, but that I'm quite choosy with what games to buy, I tend to focus on one at a time and don't buy as many as some... so it's quite rare that I actually buy a game that I don't like, or complete.

 

This game was both, an experience it shares on the Wii with MadWorld.

 

I thought the controls and traversing the environment felt clunky and cumbersome, the visuals a let down and the story and voice acting left much to be desired. Nothing warmed me to this game at all, and combined with my general preference for 3D gaming over 2D and I just tired of it and traded it in.

 

Like @Jonnas actually, I almost didn't bother with the game because I just had the feeling it wouldn't be for me. But it was cheap and I loved Metroid Prime so I thought I'd give it a go.

 

I ended up skipping through the rest of the story cutscenes on youtube, and I glad I didn't give it any more of my gameplay time to see it through than I did.

[Grazza]

That's like saying a Zelda wouldn't be Zelda without a boomerang or bombs.

 

It might still be Zelda, but it wouldn't be the full experience, especially if those things were removed because of the game's form factor. As it stands, the only reason those things would be removed from Zelda would be a design decision, not because the game couldn't do it (notice how the Mirror Shield/controllable shield was in neither Wii game? Very irritating, and diminishes the experience). Metroid Prime is the opposite of your boomerang/bombs example. Many things aren't in it because they can't be.

 

Besides, I'd argue finding and destroying weak walls (which lead to previously unknown areas) is a core part of Zelda. Yes, you could still have a Zelda without them, but people would quite rightly say an aspect of it had been lost. No one is saying Metroid Prime is flawed - it is an excellent first-person game - just that it's not the whole Metroid experience. Look at the things @Wii listed:

 

Screw attack, shine spark, wall jumps, speed boost.

 

Mechanics? Yes, mechanics which allow a certain type of gameplay. During a Metroid game (say, Fusion or Zero Mission), you will see blocks that can't be destroyed with your current abilities. By the end of the game, you will be able to Speed Boost, store the energy, then Shine Spark through walls or ceilings, accessing new areas. You will also be able to Screw Attack through almost anything. We're simply crediting Other M for including this.

 

It may be that people are happy for 3D Metroid to not be the entire experience, to which I'd say "fine". The Prime games are great, and if it means we can have more pure 2D Metroids, even better, but let's see it how it is.

[Jonnas]

Mechanics? Yes, mechanics which allow a certain type of gameplay. During a Metroid game (say, Fusion or Zero Mission), you will see blocks that can't be destroyed with your current abilities. By the end of the game, you will be able to Speed Boost, store the energy, then Shine Spark through walls or ceilings, accessing new areas. You will also be able to Screw Attack through almost anything. We're simply crediting Other M for including this.

 

Metroid Prime does that. It's just that it uses the Wave Beam, Boost Ball, Thermal Visor, etc. stuff that isn't possible in 2D, either (or is at least very difficult to do).

 

It's a really minor hair to split, really, as in both games (Super and Prime, I mean), these power-ups aren't mere keys to door-opening or block-breaking, but flexible mechanics, an integral part of the gameplay. In that sense, I fully agree with Oxi_Waste, in that Metroid Prime fully complied with Super Metroid's design philosophy, and saying it "isn't the full Metroid experience" is a somewhat shallow observation, as Metroid isn't a run-and-gun series, and it never tried to be.

 

[Disclaimer: I am not talking about Other M, only Prime and Super]

[Oxigen_Waste]

It might still be Zelda, but it wouldn't be the full experience, especially if those things were removed because of the game's form factor. As it stands, the only reason those things would be removed from Zelda would be a design decision, not because the game couldn't do it (notice how the Mirror Shield/controllable shield was in neither Wii game? Very irritating, and diminishes the experience). Metroid Prime is the opposite of your boomerang/bombs example. Many things aren't in it because they can't be.

 

Besides, I'd argue finding and destroying weak walls (which lead to previously unknown areas) is a core part of Zelda. Yes, you could still have a Zelda without them, but people would quite rightly say an aspect of it had been lost. No one is saying Metroid Prime is flawed - it is an excellent first-person game - just that it's not the whole Metroid experience. Look at the things @Wii listed:

 

 

Mechanics? Yes, mechanics which allow a certain type of gameplay. During a Metroid game (say, Fusion or Zero Mission), you will see blocks that can't be destroyed with your current abilities. By the end of the game, you will be able to Speed Boost, store the energy, then Shine Spark through walls or ceilings, accessing new areas. You will also be able to Screw Attack through almost anything. We're simply crediting Other M for including this.

 

It may be that people are happy for 3D Metroid to not be the entire experience, to which I'd say "fine". The Prime games are great, and if it means we can have more pure 2D Metroids, even better, but let's see it how it is.

 

See, this is where things get messy... neither of us is "right" or "wrong", it's entirely a matter of preference... I, for one, would be thrilled to have a new Zelda game that COMPLETELY got rid of every single staple the series has been relying on since forever. Strip it down to it's core elements of being action/adventure dungeon-based games with an epic scope and start from scratch. No link, no boomerangs, no bombs, do away with the old songs, just start from scratch with the same basic concept.

The absence of the mirror shield in the Wii titles didn't detract from the experience in the slightest, imo... I was actually pleasently surprised by it's absence, since I was counting on it being there.

 

As for things not being in Prime because they "can't be", that's bullshit... they could have implemented (*cof*shoehorned*cof*) pretty much every single missing mechanic mentioned into the game easily, but since it would be subpar (as proven by the awkward-feeling screw attack that made it's way into the sequels), they did what they had to in order to make the game feel functional and authentic. Any good sequel cannot be affraid of change.

 

Finding and destroying weak walls is such an irrelevant part of what makes up a Zelda game, to me... I could completely live without it and it wouldn't phase me in the slightest, I'm alot more interested in innovation than revisitation. In my view, no aspect of it at all would have been lost. We just want different things... you have the kind of mentality that makes people like me frustrated, as most sequels are made to cater to your train of thought and end up (imo) rendering most IPs irrelevant. Releasing the same game over and over and over again relying only on stylistic and narrative differences does NOT amount to good game design, imo. I wish more IPs went the way RE4 did and weren't affraid of completely reinventing their respective IPs.

 

Metroid Prime is a complete and fully matured Metroid experience, imo. It's about as whole as it could be, imo, you're obsessing over COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS details, in my view of things.

 

Mechanics are what they are... they complete the gameplay but they do not define it. Very rarely can any mechanic claim to be an integral and defining part of the gameplay... maybe Just Cause 2's grappling hook or Gravity Rush's... well... gravity. No mechanic in Metroid allows for any specific type of gameplay. The example you just gave is just a mechanic revolving around a core gameplay element... the specific mechanic may be gone, but the gameplay element is still there! In this specific case, you mention certain mechanics as integral part of the item-hunting and non-linear level design nature of the game, but that's false as those mechanics can be substituted by any number of new ones and produce the same exact results. Clinging onto specific mechanics is precisely what kills the fun of most sequels... the general (apparent) refusal to try different approaches to the same concept within the gaming community irritates me.

 

"How it is"... it "isn't" any specific thing. You like it better one way, I like it better the other way. Neither of us is right, we just want different things.

 

A great example would be Dragon Quest, which I know you love. I love it, too. VIII and V are 2 of my favourite JRPGs ever. But there's so little variety from title to title that it pretty much killed my interest in it. I've also played III and VII. I dabbled with IV, VI and IX but it just felt like I was playing the same game over and over again after a certain point. And personally, that's a dealbreaker. I'm still very much looking forward to DQX's release, but my expectations have been quite lowered with the IP in general and I need to wait 2~3 years between each game in order to be able to truly enjoy them due to franchise fatigue.

 

Btw, hope I didn't come off as insulting, I'm just illustrating my views on this matter, even though it's ultimately irrelevant since there is no right answer.

 

The idea (that someone brought in another thread) that Platinum should do a Metroid action game actually sounds like what I wanted this game to be, though.

 

I believe that was me... And yes, completely agree.

 

I'd LOVE to see Platinum working on Metroid, next. Bayo 2 is basically done and Platinum's being awfully friendly with Nintendo, lately. Stranger things HAVE happened!

[Fused King]

Heated discussion on here, it has been a pleasure to read it.

 

I'll just say that Metroid Prime has left much more of an impression on me than Metroid: Other M did overall, but Other M sure as hell has me reminiscing over how damn satisfying the actual combat was.

It had a different style going for it that made it feel rather sleek and compact and that's how I'll remember it.

[EEVILMURRAY]

Having still a large backlog of Wii games I need to get, this is one of games missing. And, from the top of my head, only 1 of 2 games total in the Metroid franchise that I don´t own in some form (I miss Metroid 2, I don´t own a physical NES copy of Metroid, and I need to replace my damned French/German Super metroid copy for a UK one sometime. I´ll get to all of them eventually).

I've got a spare copy if you're interested. Only one mirrion dorrah. Or cheaper. It's not worth that much. :awesome: