Sheikah Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 That's a big problem with having one company produce nearly all the (worthwhile) games on the system, I think. Too many staff and they have issues, too few staff and quality games aren't released frequently enough to satisfy most consumers.
Dcubed Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) That's a big problem with having one company produce nearly all the (worthwhile) games on the system, I think. Too many staff and they have issues, too few staff and quality games aren't released frequently enough to satisfy most consumers. Quite the quandary isn't it? Sadly there's no easy fix for the problem. That's why I feel that the path they're currently taking with 3rd party support is the best one they could follow. There's still much more for them to do (and hopefully someday finally win back some goddamn support from the likes of EA, Take Two etc, through moneyhats or otherwise!) but blindly copying MS and Sony is a fight that they could never hope to win. At the very least, they're leading the way with indie developer support (giving out free Unity & Autodesk licenses was a stroke of genius!) but even then there's still much more to do. They could give financial support (especially for the developers who've stuck with them exclusively for a long time like Shinen and Two Tribes - the latter of which could really do with some help in that regard right now...), co-marketing through above-the-line media instead of just below-the-line or perhaps even build Kickstarter directly into the eShop! Why not allow people to pledge donations directly through the eShop? It would make people feel much more secure in their donations, give a guarantee that they would recieve the game that they're pledging towards (especially if it would actually show up in their downloads list right after donating!) and Nintendo could also pledge to match the amounts donated by their customers! Plenty more that can be done still (and quite frankly, I think my Kickstarter eShop idea is genius. Please steal it Nintendo!) Edited January 9, 2014 by Dcubed
Ashley Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 At the very least, they're leading the way with indie developer support (giving out free Unity & Autodesk licenses was a stroke of genius!) but even then there's still much more to do. They could give financial support (especially for the developers who've stuck with them exclusively for a long time like Shinen and Two Tribes - the latter of which could really do with some help in that regard right now...), co-marketing through above-the-line media instead of just below-the-line or perhaps even build Kickstarter directly into the eShop! Why not allow people to pledge donations directly through the eShop? It would make people feel much more secure in their donations, give a guarantee that they would recieve the game that they're pledging towards (especially if it would actually show up in their downloads list right after donating!) and Nintendo could also pledge to match the amounts donated by their customers! Plenty more that can be done still (and quite frankly, I think my Kickstarter eShop idea is genius. Please steal it Nintendo!) They've done some good things with indies, but I would say they're far from "leading the way" when it comes to them. But that could just be me ^_^ As nice as the Kickstarter idea is, given how risk-shy Nintendo is when it comes to most things (online, microtransactions, apps etc) I can't see them supporting a service whereby you can pledge money and (if all goes wrong) get nothing in return. If for no other reason than possibly being blamed for providing a platform for it.
pratty Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Well obviously they shouldn't have made the gamepad. And without the technical overhaul they weren't appealing to the core. In fact they didn't really appeal that well to either with this. Again third parties leaving Nintendo is entirely Nintendo's fault. Nintendo did not reach out to devs to make their console suit them, nor did they power it enough to allow easy cross platform porting. We're EA brought in to work on their online or something? I seem to remember them being very entheusiastic abotu the Wii-U at first, suddenly they abandoned ship. I wouldn't disagree that Nintendo didn't make it easy as it could be for 3rd party devs to port over their games, but you have to remember their are other factors to consider, courtng third parties is just one objective, other objectives include producing a competitively priced yet profitable console. Another objective is to produce something different, to take gaming in new directions with new possibilities, the gamepad allows for this. If Nintendo had just released a standard console with a standard controller, they would probably be criticsed for taking a backward step, I can picture the articles aready, about how Nintendo brought gamers inventions like the Wii and the DS, but are now out of ideas. If they hadn't made the gamepad they'd have just made some other unique feature/'gimmick' instead. Nintendo simply aren't interested in doing what everyone else is. If anything the gamepad is a concession to developers and the 'core' gamers, it's surely far less of an obstacle than motion controls.
lostmario Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Really interesting article. I already knew about Microsoft wanted to buy Nintendo around 2001/2002 but wasn't aware of the figure ($25 billion).
Mandalore Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 Still makes me sad today reading about the Rareware acquisition. Apart from that though, I really loved the GameCube. So many awesome games and I don't really remember any game droughts, the launch games alone kept me going for ages. In hindsight Nintendo didn't do themselves much favours, but even if they did handle 3rd parties better, I doubt my choice of game purchases would've changed much.
Dcubed Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 BTW another article related to this topic was released today; this time from Eurogamer... http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-secret-developers-wii-u-the-inside-story This quote below in particular really stands out to me as it fits in pretty much perfectly with what I said before about Nintendo's 3rd party relations problems stemming back all the way from the SNES/N64 era and how those same pre-conceptions still continue to haunt Nintendo and their 3rd party devs... The technical and feature support from Nintendo were lacking for third-party studios. There was a feeling internally that if you weren't a first-party development studio, you were largely ignored by Nintendo, as we were superficial to their profits. Internally developed titles would save Nintendo and we were just there to add depth to the games catalogue. BTW it's a good read in general. Just goes to show how much of a nightmare console launches can be...
tapedeck Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) I found the Emily Rogers article very interesting but it left a sour taste in regards to where the industry was heading at the time - and where it now is for me tbh. Yamauchi was right about all those big AAA games taking developers out of the industry. I think the Wii is to be applauded not lauded by power-hungry gamers as it offered developers a new route in the industry. A new financial opportunity that said 'hey, it's about the games not the graphics' a lot of devs missed those opportunities. I believe the Wii was a revolution...but many studios followed the existing herd and lost money/went out of business. This gen has reverted to type with the might of SONY and MS powering their way through. Thankfully, I'm enjoying Nintendo's vision of the industry. We don't all want the same and I'm happy playing some of the best titles in the industry on WiiU and 3DS. I fondly remember the GameCube and valued Nintendo's differing attitude to the industry at the time. Wind Waker was like the ultimate two-fingers up at the way the industry was demanding more realistic graphics. It remains timeless too in a way that animation/Disney films do. That's the creative might and opportunity of this industry. I believe the pursuit of realism is a dead end as we'll hit a point where we can't get any more realistic. Next we'll be debating which console to buy games on based on things like Lara Croft's hair. Ugh. When the videogame system was born from the UK and Japan we had such a diverse range of humorous, creative titles which were technically astute. I feel as a gamer that the industry is now more Americanised/commodified through cross-platform releases/ports and genres that are western focused. The big third party developers are now shaping this industry - forcing MS and SONY to pay for exclusive content (which I believe doesn't benefit gamers). Heck, they are now interjecting on how a machine should be built such is their sway. Tbf to Nintendo, they did listen to third parties but decided to go their own way. That should be commended. If the EA Origin rumours are true, even better... I'd rather Nintendo had power over their own decisions than a third party like EA, who typify everything that is wrong with the American approach to business. Namely, extract as much money from them then chuck them on the heap when they are done. That Eurogamer article seems to add more kindle to the burning fire of disdain for Nintendo's business decisions. All systems are 'hard' to develop for upon launch and the WiiU isn't built as a port machine like the PS4/XBone appear to be (from the PC). The industry needs variety and I would argue that 'society' still needs variety and to celebrate difference. We need a powerhouse company that produces titles that are family/child friendly and welcoming. Sad truth: I was playing SMW3D last week with my GF'S brother who is 9. He asked me why I play games that are made for children. I told him because they are fun and growing up doesn't have to be serious. He wanted GTA for Christmas. And got Mario with a WiiU but even he had an inferiority complex. Perhaps this is a cultural challenge Nintendo will continue to face in the west. The desensitisation of children to violence and their subsequent dismissal of things that appear child-like could be Nintendo's biggest challenge in the west. Another debate perhaps. That's why I enjoy Nintendo. Their ideology is unique and fun. Something that is worth waiting 6 months at a time for. That should be celebrated more. Edited January 12, 2014 by tapedeck
pratty Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 There was a comment on Eurogamer to effect of "who asked Nintendo to be different anyway?". Nintendo have always tried to give people new experiences, and encourage devlopers to think outside of the box, I'd be interested to know in what ways the 3rd party developers on the PS4 and Xbox One are taking gameplay forward, that could only be realised on those consoles and not the Wii-U. Perhaps innovation is actually an overated concern of a lot of gamers today? As far as I'm aware the most prominent recent innovation from third party devs, outside of graphics, is microtransactions. I wonder if a big reason a large developer such as EA went cold on the Wii-U because it wasn't designed with things like microtransactions in mind. Something like DLC can be good or it can be bad, depending on how it's implmented, thankfully at least Nintendo seems to be taking an ethical approach. One thing I really liked about the Wii was playing games on a console that didn't constantly have it's hand out. Seems to me a lot of people are hoping for that "one console to rule them all", either from Nintendo, or Sony or Microsoft (with Nintendo as a 3rd party developer). I think a complete one stop shop games console is just too ideal. At least Nintendo provides variety, for better or worse.
Jimbob Posted January 14, 2014 Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) Still havn't finished the article, but wow. Learning that was Nintendo's choice on 3rd party support, well that is something else. I can see why they would do this, but it was a huge risk only offering dev kits to 3rd parties who approached them instead of what Sony and Microsoft did. And Microsoft's attempt at buying Nintendo, didn't know of the cost but knew of the takeover attempt. And whilst this is focused on Nintendo's GC, i am learning a lot about Microsoft's approach to gaming. Throw money around, hope for the best. Shall report back once i've read more. Edit: Just got past the Rare section. It's sad to think that the company founders were more interested in a bidding war. And Nintendo wanted to keep Rare, except Microsoft threw so much money (again) into the bid that they had no choice but to sell up. And looking at the list of developers who left Rare before, and after the acquisision. Even some of them thinking the grass was greener with Microsoft over Nintendo, thinking more flexibility as it were. And boy they were wrong according to reports. Very sad to see a company which were once a top development team making quality games, at their own pace, now a shadow/shell of former selves shovelling Kinect-ware out on-demand. Edited January 14, 2014 by Jimbob
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