Happenstance Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 What does it matter? If we like the story then we like the story. I dont feel the need to compare things all the time to gauge how much I should be enjoying things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxigen_Waste Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 What does it matter? If we like the story then we like the story. I dont feel the need to compare things all the time to gauge how much I should be enjoying things. Like I said, it's more than ok to like the story, I myself love the story of many games. But to play videogames primarily for the story is as ignorant as it gets. If you want good stories, read books. Just because The Road's story is much, much better doesn't mean I didn't absolutely love The Last Of Us' story. I just wish the gameplay would've been better. Gameplay is why I play videogames. If I can have a decent story supporting that gameplay, even better... but the more unintrusive it is, the more I'll like it. 90 min cutscenes (yeah MGS4, I'm looking at you) aren't good game design, imo... Hell, cutscenes in general should be avoided as much as possible and kept to a minimum, why not integrate the storytelling into the gameplay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ville Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Yeah, I think video game music is also pretty crap compared to real music. I mean who buys a video game based on the music? Ignorant people, that's who. And don't even get me started on the graphics. Ok, some video games do look kind of decent, but can they compare with real life? Hell no. Thus buying a game based on the visuals = total dumbassery. I really have no idea why we even continued from Pong, perfect game right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happenstance Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Like I said, it's more than ok to like the story, I myself love the story of many games. But to play videogames primarily for the story is as ignorant as it gets. If you want good stories, read books. Its not ignorant at all, dont be so dramatic and quite frankly rude. There is an interactive and visual component that you dont get with books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxigen_Waste Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) Yeah, I think video game music is also pretty crap compared to real music. I mean who buys a video game based on the music? Ignorant people, that's who. And don't even get me started on the graphics. Ok, some video games do look kind of decent, but can they compare with real life? Hell no. Thus buying a game based on the visuals = total dumbassery. I really have no idea why we even continued from Pong, perfect game right there. That's not what I said. Don't do that. Buying a videogame based on the music is totally ok, and I've done so more than once (the most recent example being Bastion). Playing videogames in general PRIMARILY for the music is ignorant, by definition. As for the graphics or the pong analogy... that's the complete opposite of what I'm saying, what are you even on about? oO Its not ignorant at all, dont be so dramatic and quite frankly rude. There is an interactive and visual component that you dont get with books. How am I being rude (or dramatic, for that matter)? Is ignorant an insult all of a sudden? I realize it can be used as such, but I don't see how being uninformed is a negative thing. It's absolutely neutral. Being ignorant doesn't make you a better or worse person. oO I get what you're saying, I love videogames too, remember? However, the interactive component adds 0 to the story and is the main reason people refuse to accept videogames as art... our interactivity limits the prtagonist and possible outcomes tremendously. Edited August 1, 2013 by Oxigen_Waste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEVILMURRAY Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Its not ignorant at all, dont be so dramatic and quite frankly rude. There is an interactive and visual component that you dont get with books. Depends how long the cutscenes are, if they're Metal Gear length, might as well spend a fiver on a DVD. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happenstance Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 How am I being rude (or dramatic, for that matter)? Oo Is ignorant an insult all of a sudden? You are saying that anyone who prefers video game stories to books is ignorant which is ridiculous. Its personal opinion. Im done anyway, this is the same problem you always have in regards to other peoples opinions and im not going to get stuck arguing about it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxigen_Waste Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 You are saying that anyone who prefers video game stories to books is ignorant which is ridiculous. Its personal opinion. Im done anyway, this is the same problem you always have in regards to other peoples opinions and im not going to get stuck arguing about it again. Not at all. This isn't "that" discussion at all. I'm not addressing tiers of quality here. If someone preffers video game stories to book stories it's literally the definition of being ignorant. Their lack of knowledge is the reason for that opinion, therefore, it's ignorance. This isn't like when I argue that a movie is better than another because of X or Y. Books are devoted entirely to the crafting of stories, they are the ultimate medium when it comes to telling a story. A person can't "preffer" videogame stories to book stories unless they're ignorant because they are the same basic thing except in videogames the stories are dilluted and way less important. Preffering video games to books when it comes to stories is like preffering midi to real music or preffering the sound of laptop speakers to a good set of speakers. It's an opinion that can only exist through lack of exposure. Go find me a single person who preffers video game stories to book stories who isn't ignorant about literature. I'm not trying to insult anyone or make anyone feel worse. It's ok to be ignorant. We're all ignorant. Why is ignorant bad? oO This is miles away from the point I was trying to make, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ville Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) @Oxigen_Waste Well I think it would be a bit "ignorant" to say people are ignorant because of their tastes. Even if books have better plots than games in general, it doesn't mean everyone wants to read books. For me and many other people, videogames are the medium of choice over books / films / etc, and like most people we do like our fair share of stories as well. I will much rather play a game with a good story than an aimless game of just levels after levels (cough Mario cough), even though the latter have their own place as well. Books? Even after having read some really cool scifi stuff, I'm still not interested. So the ignorance angle doesn't necessarily work here... Edited August 1, 2013 by Ville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxigen_Waste Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 @Oxigen_Waste Well I think it would be a bit "ignorant" to say people are ignorant because of their tastes. Even if books have better plots than games in general, it doesn't mean everyone wants to read books. For me and many other people, videogames are the medium of choice over books / films / etc, and like most people we do like our fair share of stories as well. I will much rather play a game with a good story than an aimless game of just levels after levels (cough Mario cough), even though the latter have their own place as well. Books? Even after having read some really cool scifi stuff, I'm still not interested. So the ignorance angle doesn't really work here... It's not ignorant. Presumptuous and a little arrogant? No doubt, but not ignorant. There's nothing uninformed about it. Quite the opposite. It's a conclusion derived from years of observation and analysis. :P It's ok if people don't want to read books, I have no problem with that. It doesn't make you any less or any more than anyone else. I'm a bit baffled as to how you can be uninterested in something you liked. By "really cool", I assume you mean you liked them, yes? Wait a minute, just to be clear here: I don't preffer books to games. I love them equally. I preffer the stories in books to the stories in video games, I'm not saying books are better than videogames in general. Now, with that in mind, are you saying you preffer the stories in videogames to those in books or that you just don't like books? It's not that clear in your post and they're 2 completely different things! For comparison's sake, do you preffer the stories in movies/series or in videogames? If you don't like books that changes everything. May I suggest trying audiobooks, if you dislike books? A friend of mine who always hated reading books is now a massive "book" fan through audiobooks, even though she still hates reading books. I myself love me some audiobooks when I'm out running/cycling/canoeing or when my eyes are tired for some reason before bed Depends how long the cutscenes are, if they're Metal Gear length, might as well spend a fiver on a DVD. :P I though 90 mins was a huge exageration, but it turns out I wasn't exaggerating that much... there's a 71 minute long cutscene in it. Jesus Christ. Must be the ending... it went on forever, but I didn't realize it was over an hour at the time. oO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ville Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 @Oxigen_Waste Well it's the same thing as with movies really. I do like both, but I just can't be arsed to read / watch. And yes, some books that I've read have been totally brilliant, but I guess it isn't enough. For some reason I just prefer games to both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fused King Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I do like narratives in games as much as I like games pure for the gameplay, it's just what I feel like playing at the time. However, I feel that there are quite lot of narrative driven games out there that do not appeal to me, or I think that they don't Games that give me that same-ol'-same-ol' vibe when I see the trailers and the gameplay. Games such as Uncharted, a lot of FPSs, loads of Zombie games, The Last of Us, ... The vibe to me feels like grand American epics which tell the tales of struggles, overcoming those struggles and looking at the world in a different light. Or refusing to change, or not change at all, ....hmmm.... can't quite explain this properly, but it's just the feel and some assumptions of said stories that stroke me the wrong way. Like someone else said in this thread earlier, there's definitely room for both kind of games (narrative driven VS gameplay driven) and a perfect blend of the two is also more than welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxigen_Waste Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 @Oxigen_Waste Well it's the same thing as with movies really. I do like both, but I just can't be arsed to read / watch. And yes, some books that I've read have been totally brilliant, but I guess it isn't enough. For some reason I just prefer games to both. That's fine and dandy, you'll get absolutely no hate from me. I preffer movies to pretty much everything else, but enjoy games and books equally. I still don't get wether you preffer game stories to movie stories or book stories, though, since you're just refering to games, books and movies as a whole. What I mean, deep down, is that the games that have had the biggest impact on me have done so because of their amazing gameplay, first and foremost. While some of them (like Portal, Shadow Of The Colossus, Journey or even Dark Souls, like mentioned previously) do feature some amazing narratives, I find I'll enjoy a game much more (on average) if the narrative is implemented into the gameplay and is as unobtrusive as possible, like in the games I just mentioned. It doesn't mean I can't enjoy or appreciate story-driven stuff like TLoU or Planescape, just that every time a game focus too much on the narrative, the gameplay ends up suffering or being neglected because of it, and we end up with flawed masterpieces which fail to soar as high as gameplay-driven beasts. TLoU is a great example. I think it's an amazing achievement and one hell of a great game, but it'll never be as memorable to me as something like Super Metroid, because the things that make TLoU great can be obtained in a much more detailed and fleshed out fashion from other mediums, while that "pure gameplay awesomeness" high you get from something like the first few chapters in Mirror's Edge is absolutely unique to gaming. It's something you just can't find anywhere else! Stuff like MGS4 I just can't tolerate, though... It's hardly even a game, and to make matters worse, the story is a contrived mess. I love MGS1 and have huge amounts of respect for 3 (that ending might just be the single best "story moment" in any game, ever), but 4 (and 2) are just too ludicrous for me to care about. The fact that the gameplay in the MGS series is only good-ish to average just makes me feel unpleasent about the series as a whole. I absolutely love stealth games, but compared to games like Splinter Cell (the first 3), the Thief series or even more recent stuff like Mark Of The Ninja, MGS games are just a turd, gameplay-wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 The Last of Us would lose a lot of it's impact if it was a film or book. It's the kind of narrative that works so well because it's a game. The story, characters, atmosphere and gameplay blend to create an amazing experience that only gaming can provide. All elements of the game add to the narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxigen_Waste Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 (edited) The Last of Us would lose a lot of it's impact if it was a film or book. It's the kind of narrative that works so well because it's a game. The story, characters, atmosphere and gameplay blend to create an amazing experience that only gaming can provide. All elements of the game add to the narrative. I reserve the right to wholehearteldy and completely disagree. It would've been far more amazing as a movie than it is as a game (imo). Remember: I absolutely loved the game (except for the high school and pittsburg segments which I mostly hated). The best parts of the game were never outstanding because of the gameplay. Be it the deer, giraffe, or car parts, the visuals and dialogue elements were always the highlight, at least personally. Can you imagine those same scenes with someone like Roger Deakins behind the cinematography? Goddamn, now that's a movie I'd pay good money to see! As a book it would suck, though, yeah... the story's a tad bit too shallow (as it stands, obviously) to support a novel. Edit: Which isn't to say there aren't stories which work better in games. Dear Esther, for example, is much better as a game than it could ever hope to be as a film. Edited August 2, 2013 by Oxigen_Waste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Those first few rooms with clickers were some of the best moments of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxigen_Waste Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Those first few rooms with clickers were some of the best moments of the game. The clickers were the only saving grace of having infected in the game... I hated that they made it just another zombie game, when I played it. Had no idea going in and was royally pissed when I found out. The best parts were vs human opponents or just when wandering in nature. But yeah, the clickers were kind of awesome. Although I honestly think the game would've beem much better without the lame infected in general. Especially the stage 3 ones, they had absolutely no place in the game, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 I thought the infected were a great juxtaposition to the human opponents. I don't think the game would have been nearly as well paced, in terms of gameplay, without them. What I thought was utterly stupid was how none of the human opponents were female. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 What I thought was utterly stupid was how none of the human opponents were female. Women are smart enough not to be violent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 I don't think non-violence is the smart choice when the world ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxigen_Waste Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) They could've just segmented it into action and stealth sessions... hell, the best parts are all human confronts! The sniper in the village and the ice lodge were probably the best parts as far as confront goes. The clickers' highlight was the hotel basement and the abandoned "sewer city", which were ok, but not nearly as well executed, imo. Hell, if I had it my way, the game would've been alot more focused towards stealth and survival (as promised by ND!!!!) than it actually was. The infected wouldn't be necessary if they had stuck to what they promised. I was also expecting great gameplay and got just decent, but that's a whole other story. Edited August 3, 2013 by Oxigen_Waste I'm retarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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