Wii Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 The Gamecube is the console Nintendo left on market the shortest amount of time, even by that measure late 2017 is the earliest Nintendo would launch the next home console (Nov/Dec 2017). Nintendo have always given each of their consoles 5 years, even the GC only fell short of that by a couple of weeks. Mid 2017 is the very earliest I would expect the next console to be ready for launch (they can't release a half completed console just because the current one isn't selling like hot cakes!!) That may be so but the Gamecube had 3rd party support and it had retail shelf space. A lot of retailers have dropped the Wii U. Others are reducing it's retail shelf space at rate of noughts. If nobody is left selling your product what do you do then? And all these GAME exclusives that are going on, I feel are an effort to keep them sweet and not abandon it as well. I'll take a bet with someone now of €50 that it'll launch in 2016. I got the predictions right about Wii U before it launched and throughout. I'm going to be right about how it ends as well. At the very least a new console or handheld is coming in 2016. If a new handheld could sell like gangbusters then that's the only way I could see that they might carry the lifeless Wii U on a bit further. No, they've already got plans afoot for the Wii U's successor in 2016. It's going to happen, wait and see. Anybody want to take that bet? @Serebii I'd especially like to take your money. They'd abandon it now if they could but they have to save face, sell off exising stock, sell games already in development and the backlash would be huge.
Sheikah Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 I have a Bachelor of Science in this, thank you very much. Just because I run a Pokémon website does not mean I don't have the knowledge. How dare you attempt to condescend me. Do you really think you are capable of such a thing? Don't think for a second that you are. lol, a bachelor of science. Sorry, but I'd wipe my arse with that; and I don't mean that in a disrespectful way to you and your achievement, purely in terms of what credibility it lends you in this discussion. Great achievement and all, but I wouldn't have claimed to have been a scientist after getting my BSc in biology back in 2008. In fact, a lot of what I learned back then has since become out of date (that's almost 7 years old now). Even with what I knew, what you learn at an undergraduate level is a very broad and somewhat superficial overview of a huge subject and doesn't really grant you the breadth of technical insight that you clearly think you have. So because "nobody gives a crap" about the capabilities of technology means it shouldn't be counted? Technology is outdated based on capabilities, efficiency, age etc. and the technology in the Wii U is, in 2012 terms, modern and unique. This is such a stupid way to pass off the Wii U as being 'advanced'. Yes, it's efficient. That's because it is achieving a level of graphical fidelity achieved in a home console in 2005 but with modern parts. Now that's fine and all, if you're making something like a kettle. Because hey, guess what, all you ever need to do is boil water. If you can do that but use half the power of an old model and make it smaller then you've made a more advanced device. Doesn't work in this situation though - people want their console to be better than their last in terms of performance. You can't claim it's advanced in a meaningful way if what it achieves is, ultimately, old. Specs do not equate whether or not technology is outdated, and it's ridiculously stupid to think otherwise. Regarding games consoles: Specs do not equate whether or not technology is outdated, and it's ridiculously stupid to think otherwise. Serebii, 2014 Nintendo is not gonna change and a lot of people are very, VERY, happy with that. Yeah, must be all those people buying the Wii U. Oh. Wait...
Serebii Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 lol, a bachelor of science. Sorry, but I'd wipe my arse with that; and I don't mean that in a disrespectful way to you and your achievement, purely in terms of what credibility it lends you in this discussion. Great achievement and all, but I wouldn't have claimed to have been a scientist after getting my BSc in biology back in 2008. In fact, a lot of what I learned back then has since become out of date (that's almost 7 years old now). Even with what I knew, what you learn at an undergraduate level is a very broad and somewhat superficial overview of a huge subject and doesn't really grant you the breadth of technical insight that you clearly think you have. Perhaps, but I also keep up with everything in this field. I feel that you attempt to condescend me and dismiss my abilities and knowledge just because I run a site about a franchise you don't care about. You try to demean me, and it's not logical. This is such a stupid way to pass off the Wii U as being 'advanced'. Yes, it's efficient. That's because it is achieving a level of graphical fidelity achieved in a home console in 2005 but with modern parts. Now that's fine and all, if you're making something like a kettle. Because hey, guess what, all you ever need to do is boil water. If you can do that but use half the power of an old model and make it smaller then you've made a more advanced device. Doesn't work in this situation though - people want their console to be better than their last in terms of performance. You can't claim it's advanced in a meaningful way if what it achieves is, ultimately, old. Because it is advanced technology. Again, you're only equating specs to whether or not something is advanced and that's erroneous. If you want to complain about the Wii U's specs, that's fine...go for it, but to say it is outdated technology is factually incorrect. That is why I countered your statement and you're just clamouring to try and claim ground because your ego is so huge that you cannot stomach that I am correct and you are not. Regarding games consoles: Specs do not equate whether or not technology is outdated, and it's ridiculously stupid to think otherwise. Serebii, 2014 Factually true statement. Again, you're trying to demean me and mock me, but it fails because you're just making yourself look stupid. Good going.
Sheikah Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Perhaps, but I also keep up with everything in this field. I feel that you attempt to condescend me and dismiss my abilities and knowledge just because I run a site about a franchise you don't care about. You try to demean me, and it's not logical. Your inability to justify in detail your comment about voice chat tipping the system very strongly indicate that you don't actually know what you're talking about. I don't think you have any technical knowledge relevant to this discussion at all. All you're doing is bringing up qualifications as a means to make yourself sound superior, which is really just a bit silly. People who know what they're talking about are generally plain to see through the comments and expertise they impart; they shouldn't really need to point out their qualifications in a 'trust me brah' manner. Because it is advanced technology. Again, you're only equating specs to whether or not something is advanced and that's erroneous. If you want to complain about the Wii U's specs, that's fine...go for it, but to say it is outdated technology is factually incorrect. That is why I countered your statement and you're just clamouring to try and claim ground because your ego is so huge that you cannot stomach that I am correct and you are not. Well, it appears we are at an impasse, because you feel the need to win on the most minor level while ignoring the truth. You'd argue until you're blue in the face that the Wii U is advanced because it uses little power and has the gamepad. All the while ignoring the, quite clearly, outdated graphical power and networking/OS of the machine that is undoubtedly casting a huge negative over it. In terms of what a lot of people and devs want, it is substantially behind. Factually true statement. Again, you're trying to demean me and mock me, but it fails because you're just making yourself look stupid. Good going. Right, so my 15 year old PC is advanced, with its ancient (by modern standards) specs? It can run Dungeon Keeper!
dazzybee Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 I don't feel the need for more power or specs and such. I don't feel the ps4 and ine are huge Leaps, I don't play smash or Wii u and feel like they'd be loads better on the other consoles. I sort of feel like we've hit a saturation point. HOWEVER, the console does feel stupidly slow and sluggish (is that ram?) so that would be good to sort out and ultimately, the ONLY reason to worry about matching the other consoles and then being "behind" again after two years, is consumer opinion and 3rd party support. That's it. It seems to be that the lower power of the Wii u has hurt the console, if it was the same power and similar architecture maybe it would get all the 3rd party games in spite of how well they sell on Nintendo's consoles. Maybe gamers would see Nintendo as serious options (I personally find it ridiculous they don't, but I imagine a staggering amount do). A bit of me feels either a. Release a new one immediately to match them, offer some insane apologetic deal for Wii u owners to upgrade or b. Ride the whole generation out, make the best games you can, slowly improve the services, build consumer trust and forget about huge sales, and apparently properly for the next round.
markderoos Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Yeah, must be all those people buying the Wii U. Oh. Wait... I wasn't claming that the Wii U sells like hot cakes. I just tried to make my point that the huge group of Sony/XBox gamers is largely not the demographic that Nintendo aimes for with their strategy. They clearly cater to a group of consumers that likes the more warm, lighthearted and familyfriendly games. Even if that group of consumers is a lot smaller than the demographic that prefers games with a more serious/darker undertone, it doesn't mean that they don't exist. Am I right in thinking you want Nintendo to aim for the same demographic as Sony/MS do? And last point: you took only one quote out of my message, what did you think of the rest? I'm only interested in a serious discussion with sound argumentation, not trying to go to war with anybody : peace:
Serebii Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Your inability to justify in detail your comment about voice chat tipping the system very strongly indicate that you don't actually know what you're talking about. I don't think you have any technical knowledge relevant to this discussion at all. All you're doing is bringing up qualifications as a means to make yourself sound superior, which is really just a bit silly. People who know what they're talking about are generally plain to see through the comments and expertise they impart; they shouldn't really need to point out their qualifications in a 'trust me brah' manner. No, I got distracted by covering Pokémon ORAS, you know something actually important that millions (yes, millions) rely on me for, and your attitude towards me shows envy. I'll hunt my logs for a link to that article which explained how the bandwidth works since you won't take my word and knowledge about it. I have knowledge about these things. You can't accept that because you are deadset on the idea that I am "beneath" you hence your continual attempts to shoot me down. I only brought up my qualifications due to this. Well, it appears we are at an impasse, because you feel the need to win on the most minor level while ignoring the truth. You'd argue until you're blue in the face that the Wii U is advanced because it uses little power and has the gamepad. All the while ignoring the, quite clearly, outdated graphical power and networking/OS of the machine that is undoubtedly casting a huge negative over it. In terms of what a lot of people and devs want, it is substantially behind. The Wii U is technologically advanced, yes. It's not high spec, but the technology is advanced. Why are you actually incapable of understanding such a concept? And again, you're bringing software into the equation when the argument is about outdated technology. Once more, lower specs does not equate to outdated technology. Right, so my 15 year old PC is advanced, with its ancient (by modern standards) specs? It can run Dungeon Keeper! No? Are you intentionally being obtuse?
Hero-of-Time Posted December 23, 2014 Author Posted December 23, 2014 HOWEVER, the console does feel stupidly slow and sluggish (is that ram?) so that would be good to sort out and ultimately, the ONLY reason to worry about matching the other consoles and then being "behind" again after two years, is consumer opinion and 3rd party support. That's it. It seems to be that the lower power of the Wii u has hurt the console, if it was the same power and similar architecture maybe it would get all the 3rd party games in spite of how well they sell on Nintendo's consoles. Maybe gamers would see Nintendo as serious options (I personally find it ridiculous they don't, but I imagine a staggering amount do). I can see why a lot of gamers don't see it as a serious option. If you can only afford one console then gamers are going to miss out on just about every big 3rd party title. This generation is showing more than ever that it's the 3rd party games selling the consoles and not exclusives. Some of my mates who grew up with Nintendo have now moved on to either the Xbox or Playstation purely because of games like Fifa, Creed, Destiny and also because of the online features of these consoles. When ever Nintendo do release their next console they are gonna have to sort this situation out with western 3rd parties. If they don't then it's going to be back to square one again. Basically, if they can't sell on a gimmick then they are going to have to compete in the same space as the other two.
liger05 Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) The Gamecube is the console Nintendo left on market the shortest amount of time, even by that measure late 2017 is the earliest Nintendo would launch the next home console (Nov/Dec 2017). Nintendo have always given each of their consoles 5 years, even the GC only fell short of that by a couple of weeks. Mid 2017 is the very earliest I would expect the next console to be ready for launch (they can't release a half completed console just because the current one isn't selling like hot cakes!!) True but the Wii U is in a worse position than the Gamecube was. I don't think releasing a new platform after 4 years would be such a bad thing as long as its the correct console. Edited December 23, 2014 by liger05
Sheikah Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 No, I got distracted by covering Pokémon ORAS, you know something actually important that millions (yes, millions) rely on me for, and your attitude towards me shows envy. HAAAA! Fuck me. I think we'll have to leave it here, as that might be the most ridiculous/funny thing you have ever said to me. What could I possibly retort of the same calibre?
markderoos Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Oh, how I love the smell of Christmas in this thread
Sheikah Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Oh, how I love the smell of Christmas in this thread I do love a good joke at Christmas. :wink:
liger05 Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Serebii I get what your trying to say but simply I think we can all agree that relatively speaking the Wii U is underpowered. I would say any console which cannot run the engines that developers use to create games can be called nothing but underpowered when there are alternatives on the market which do exactly that. Whether it be Nintendo, Sony or MS. If one chooses to release a console which is barely any more powerful than the consoles released in the previous generation then its underpowered. Prior to the Wii being released this concept would never be an issue or even discussed. The idea that a hardware maker would release such a platform would be scoffed at it was never the way.
Serebii Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Serebii I get what your trying to say but simply I think we can all agree that relatively speaking the Wii U is underpowered. I would say any console which cannot run the engines that developers use to create games can be called nothing but underpowered when there are alternatives on the market which do exactly that. Whether it be Nintendo, Sony or MS. If one chooses to release a console which is barely any more powerful than the consoles released in the previous generation then its underpowered. Prior to the Wii being released this concept would never be an issue or even discussed. The idea that a hardware maker would release such a platform would be scoffed at it was never the way. Yeah, I'm not disputing the facts the the Wii U has lower specs. I'm disputing the assertion that it contains outdated technology.
Ashley Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Devil's advocate? Everyone is correct...? It depends how you define "outdated". My brother says songs over a few weeks are "old" and on the one hand he's correct (they're not "new" after all) and on the other hand he isn't. What definition of 'outdated' are we using here? If we're looking at the fact that the hardware and OS of the Wii U is in many ways of a similar level to the PS3/360 then yes, an argument could be made for it being outdated. If you are looking at what that tech actually is, how it performs, the USP of the console (streaming to a second screen) then it is not. It is both outdated and modern depending on how you look at it. If Nintendo pursue a new console that is of similar technology to PS4/Xbox One even if they release it in 2015 (doubtful) it will be two years since those consoles launched and again would be arguably outdated (depends how quickly you think things become outdated, but an argument could be made that they'll still be current until the next batch of consoles arrive, in which case the Wii U successor would be behind the curve but still part of the flock). It will undoubtedly do new interesting things that the PS4/One don't, but it's a matter of perspective about what makes a console current. It depends what you want from Nintendo really. Yes, it will offer opportunities for Nintendo to make bigger versions of their stable franchises and that's great. But we'd be on arguably the third generation of 3rd party lite (I'm discounting the shovelware that flocked to the Wii) releases and certainly an argument could be made that if Nintendo once again choose to release a machine with sub-competitor specs (even with good reasons) they are opening themselves up to the very real possibility that 3rd party support will die off quickly, as will (certain) fans' patience. It depends how they do things really, which we obviously can't know. Perhaps if they released a machine with PS4/One specs and had little 3rd party support, but amazing online and really mined their franchises it may be a beloved machine. If they once again favour doing something differently, get poor 3rd party support and sub-standard (in some respects) online we'll just be here again in a few years time.
somme Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Regardless of what magical components actually make up the Wii U, it is insanely slow and sluggish. It feels very old. Even the Netflix menu feels slow.
Serebii Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Regardless of what magical components actually make up the Wii U, it is insanely slow and sluggish. It feels very old. Even the Netflix menu feels slow. Seemed about on-par with the PS4 when I played it yesterday. Bootup around the same, took about the same length to get into a game. Could just be the Netflix app being sucky, but ever since the last few system updates, the Wii U has been speedy for me. It used to be awful Devil's advocate? Everyone is correct...? It depends how you define "outdated". My brother says songs over a few weeks are "old" and on the one hand he's correct (they're not "new" after all) and on the other hand he isn't. What definition of 'outdated' are we using here? If we're looking at the fact that the hardware and OS of the Wii U is in many ways of a similar level to the PS3/360 then yes, an argument could be made for it being outdated. If you are looking at what that tech actually is, how it performs, the USP of the console (streaming to a second screen) then it is not. It is both outdated and modern depending on how you look at it. If Nintendo pursue a new console that is of similar technology to PS4/Xbox One even if they release it in 2015 (doubtful) it will be two years since those consoles launched and again would be arguably outdated (depends how quickly you think things become outdated, but an argument could be made that they'll still be current until the next batch of consoles arrive, in which case the Wii U successor would be behind the curve but still part of the flock). It will undoubtedly do new interesting things that the PS4/One don't, but it's a matter of perspective about what makes a console current. It depends what you want from Nintendo really. Yes, it will offer opportunities for Nintendo to make bigger versions of their stable franchises and that's great. But we'd be on arguably the third generation of 3rd party lite (I'm discounting the shovelware that flocked to the Wii) releases and certainly an argument could be made that if Nintendo once again choose to release a machine with sub-competitor specs (even with good reasons) they are opening themselves up to the very real possibility that 3rd party support will die off quickly, as will (certain) fans' patience. It depends how they do things really, which we obviously can't know. Perhaps if they released a machine with PS4/One specs and had little 3rd party support, but amazing online and really mined their franchises it may be a beloved machine. If they once again favour doing something differently, get poor 3rd party support and sub-standard (in some respects) online we'll just be here again in a few years time. Agreed. Could I request the term be used as "outdated specs" rather than the "outdated technology" which was being used?
Wii Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 So @Serebii care to put your money where your mouth is for once? I could do with an extra game when the new console launches in 2016 and that €50 will do nicely. I'll make it easier, say £45? Cover any disparities in the exchange rate at that time. As was said yesterday, "loosen the purse strings a bit".
Fierce_LiNk Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 I don't feel the need for more power or specs and such. I don't feel the ps4 and ine are huge Leaps, I'll have you know that Ine is a huge leap in aesthetics over her previous generation counter-parts. In staying with the actual point you're making, you can't really judge either the PS4 or One right now because there aren't enough games being used with that hardware in mind. There's a lot of cross-generation games due to the userbase being so big there. In about a year or so when the majority of games will be made with the PS4 and One purely as their sole focus (and PC), you'll start to see a difference. Being on par with the competitors is crucial, but I feel that a lot of damage has been done. I regularly tell the children in the classes that I teach that once you are given a label as a bully or somebody who isn't very pleasant to others, it can often be very difficult to shake off that label. The same principle applies here. There are quite a few labels that have seemingly stuck to Nintendo and it's going to require a lot of hard work to shake these off. Childish, slow to react, behind the times, not caring about online gaming, not able to get third parties on board, very Japanese focused (both positive and negative)/not western enough, etc. Some of these labels have been given for the last two generations...some more than that. Image is a huge problem, just as much as the power of the system.
Ronnie Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 You could also label Nintendo with things like top quality games, lovable IP, unparalleled levels of polish, the fact that games actually work out of the box unlike the latest AAAs. Gaming is all about war shooters and killing sprees these days, the Call of Duty generation is pretty depressing IMO. Thankfully there's Nintendo and indie games as a balance.
Hero-of-Time Posted December 23, 2014 Author Posted December 23, 2014 You could also label Nintendo with things like top quality games, lovable IP, unparalleled levels of polish, the fact that games actually work out of the box unlike the latest AAAs. Gaming is all about war shooters and killing sprees these days, the Call of Duty generation is pretty depressing IMO. Thankfully there's Nintendo and indie games as a balance. Us gamers who are in the know would probably have no issue with those labels. I think Flinky was referring to the opinion of the mainstream gamers and it's pretty much spot on. Gaming is the same as it's always been, having fun. It just so happens that more people enjoy the online element of gaming, with realistic graphics than they do playing a colourful platformer. I don't think the Indies are this big saviour that people harp on about either. They are just as bad as the bigger companies in terms of patching and just like the big developers, you have to get through a bunch of tripe or average games to find the real gems.
Wii Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 So I've asked twice now and no response. Does anyone know what that tune is on the eShop?
Ronnie Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Agree with all that though I wasn't saying indie games are the saviour, just that I find the gems amongst them far more fun, interesting and innovative than the latest sequels on PS4 and XBO. I don't begrudge people like Ubisoft releasing an AC every year, it sells huge numbers so you can't blame them.
Wii Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Christmas greetings from Satoru Shibata! Hello everyone! This is Satoru Shibata from Nintendo of Europe. I would like to thank you all for your continuous support of Nintendo throughout 2014! Thank you as well for always watching our Nintendo Direct broadcasts. I didn't present them so often this year, but I still read all your many comments made during and after each Direct. This year, I tried to attend as many game events and shows as I could, such as the Japan Expo in France, Gamescom in Germany, Milan Games Week, and Paris Games Week. In fact, I may even have spoken with some of you at these events! I like walking around game events and conventions like these, because I can really feel how much you all love Nintendo games. I was glad to see that many people enjoyed playing Mario Kart 8, Hyrule Warriors, Bayonetta 2, and Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Super Smash Bros. for Wii U. Even though I couldn't attend the Manga Fair in Spain, I was thrilled that Pokémon generated a lot of excitement there, and that the TV news programmes picked this up. Those games all received high scores from users at Metacritic, and I recognised the 2014 Gamekult Awards in France, in which user votes put Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/Nintendo 3DS in first place, followed by Bayonetta 2 in second and Mario Kart 8 in third, while so many other games launched in 2014! These were all great Christmas presents for me from you! Also Tomodachi Life, our little quirky title that I often enjoy playing myself, has sold more than a million copies in Europe. I’m happy that this unique and very Nintendo-like game has been enjoyed by so many consumers across Europe. How was your life in gaming in 2014? Next year, we will launch New Nintendo 3DS, which we know we have kept you waiting for. We will also release unique Nintendo games on Nintendo 3DS and Wii U. I hope that some of those games will grab your heart and make you excited. I look forward to meeting you in Nintendo Direct or somewhere at a game event in 2015. I wish you all a Merry Christmas & Happy Gaming! Satoru Shibata http://www.nintendo.co.uk/News/2014/December/Christmas-greetings-from-Satoru-Shibata--947067.html
Fierce_LiNk Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) You could also label Nintendo with things like top quality games, lovable IP, unparalleled levels of polish, the fact that games actually work out of the box unlike the latest AAAs. Gaming is all about war shooters and killing sprees these days, the Call of Duty generation is pretty depressing IMO. Thankfully there's Nintendo and indie games as a balance. Part of the problem is that you are missing a huge part of this picture. You just see war shooter, whereas others see it as co-operative gameplay, huge online battles, players communicating with each other, graphics that weren't entirely possible the generation before, ability to do things that weren't possible the generation before. Also, to ignore quality from the likes of Bethesda, Bioware, Bizarre Creations, Blizzard, Creative Assembly, Crytek, Level-5, Media Molecule, Monolith Productions, Naughty Dog, Obsidian Entertainment, Platinum Games, Quantic Dream, Rocksteady Studios, SCE, Telltale Games, Turtle Rock studios, Ubisoft (a lot of negative press, but they also get a lot right, such as Rayman Origins and Legends which in my opinion bested the recent New Super Mario Bros. games and 3D World), Valve, WB games, to name a few, would be daft. Nintendo aren't the only ones to create polished games, neither are they the only ones who can offer creativity and something different/unique to and for the industry. The dream scenario would be to get a powerful console with Nintendo and most of these developers who I just mentioned. Will it happen? Edited December 23, 2014 by Fierce_LiNk
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