Wii U General Discussion

[Sheikah]

The problem is, that piece of the pie is getting smaller and smaller every generation. The sales figures for all of Nintendos consoles go in a downward slope, with Wii being the exception. How long can this strategy work for them?

 

Yup, totally unsustainable. Imagine it getting worse than what it has been already with the Wii U.

[dazzybee]

You say that but are Nintendo not trying for mass appeal and kind of failing...?

 

Or, at least, they're still vying for a big audience but its a different size/type. If we're talking film analogies, I say they're Sony Animation (ironically).

 

I'd say all films aim to sell as many copies of possible, all products do. But I don't think Nintendo made toad thinking they were going to sell millions of copies. I was getting to mention sony too, not animation as such but they have an incredible independent arm to support their big studio.

 

Ultimately though, I mean it as more of a sensibility, the kinds of games/films they make. Like Pixar, although they were some of the most successful of all times, they had an independent film mentality in their approach - not established characters/sequels, pushing technology in animation with every film, the sheer originality and creativity within a specific story formula.

 

(And before anyone says Nintendo don't use new IP or push tech (though actually they probably lush it more than anyone in some regards) I dint mean they're doing exactly the same things, I just mean the principles are the same)

[Serebii]

I'm still not following. Are you saying you believe people wouldn't like it (or would think less of it) if Nintendo released it simply because it was Nintendo?

 

Yes, I am. It'd be labelled as "typical gimmicky Nintendo" and dismissed by the general populace.

[dazzybee]

Ah, ok. I understand now.

 

Somebody made a thread on here not too long ago...could have been @Goron3. Basically it was about how the younger/next generation of gamers aren't growing up with Nintendo. It's also worth noting that a lot of people who were gaming or growing up during the N64/GC era are probably now going to be parents, so maybe they've passed down their love for Nintendo to their children. Or, like you said, there are many who have stopped caring for Nintendo in that way. It's probably worth noting that there are legions of fans who have grown up with a Sony system and also many who had the Xbox as their system of choice when growing up. So, there's a lot to think about there.

 

I personally find this almost meaningless. Almost. Sony didn't exist and then they were the most popular in one generation, xbox didn't exist and were incredibly popular, PS3 was looking to be a disaster (slight exageration) but sony turned it around and now are back to number 1. Nintendo rules the world woth ds and Wii and don't now. The industry can change at any point and I rewlly really don't think what people played as kids has that much of a bearing, if anything it will only still favour Nintendo.

[Fierce_LiNk]

I personally find this almost meaningless. Almost. Sony didn't exist and then they were the most popular in one generation, xbox didn't exist and were incredibly popular, PS3 was looking to be a disaster (slight exageration) but sony turned it around and now are back to number 1. Nintendo rules the world woth ds and Wii and don't now. The industry can change at any point and I rewlly really don't think what people played as kids has that much of a bearing, if anything it will only still favour Nintendo.

 

How is it pointless? Just like many of us grew up with Nintendo and have stuck with them, there will also be big groups of Playstation fans and Microsoft fans who have been through the same thing (Microsoft are on their 3rd system, Sony their 4th). Nintendo fans aren't the only ones with some degree of brand loyalty. I know many gamers who grew up with Sony machines and are still sticking with them, for example. It's one way how the next generation are being introduced into gaming. It's not the only way, merely one route.

[markderoos]

The problem is, that piece of the pie is getting smaller and smaller every generation. The sales figures for all of Nintendos consoles go in a downward slope, with Wii being the exception. How long can this strategy work for them?

That's what I mean yes, I find it worrying. Nintendo (to me!) are at their best when they make a unique combination between their hardware and software. But that's also what makes it difficult for third party developers to develop for their platforms.

The day they become third party developers themselves will make me feel sad.

But sometimes I think they eventually will have to in order to survive in gaming.

That, or they really need to broaden their markets (like movies, amusementparks, tv series, toys and music)

Edited December 23, 2014 by markderoos

[Hero-of-Time]

I personally find this almost meaningless. Almost. Sony didn't exist and then they were the most popular in one generation, xbox didn't exist and were incredibly popular, PS3 was looking to be a disaster (slight exageration) but sony turned it around and now are back to number 1. Nintendo rules the world woth ds and Wii and don't now. The industry can change at any point and I rewlly really don't think what people played as kids has that much of a bearing, if anything it will only still favour Nintendo.

 

To be fair, Sony fought hard for the PS3. It changed it's image, got third parties on board, buckled down on software, got the advertising out in the wild and made a price cut. They didn't need to create a gimmick to get people on board ( Wii ) where as Nintendo seem to be in a downward spiral that looks to continue if they don't plan on changing their ways or striking lucky again.

 

The Wii U was a bit of a mess from the start yet we didn't see any kind of the aggressive changes that Sony made to help the PS3 back on track. It makes you wonder if Nintendo are just happy plodding along, rather than being number 1.

[Ashley]

Yes, I am. It'd be labelled as "typical gimmicky Nintendo" and dismissed by the general populace.

 

One could argue the praise it got was, in part, because it was unique on the console in the same way games like Bayonetta 2 get praised on the Wii U, but ultimately I don't follow your argument here because I've never heard a reputable source refer to Nintendo as gimmicky.

[Kav]

...It makes you wonder if Nintendo are just happy plodding along, rather than being number 1.

 

[Ronnie]

Tearaway was amazing. Wish we could see more games like that and No Man's Sky.

 

Originally, yes.

 

But, he then said:

 

So, that's Nintendo solely. Not Nintendo + indies.

 

Dear oh dear. I was using it to illustrate my wish that triple AAA gaming could be that diverse. If ONE developer can do that kind of breadth of content the rest of the gaming world should be more diverse. But it isn't. My point about Nintendo PLUS indies being a breath of fresh air still stands.

 

Partly because your original comment bordered on the absurd, but enough about that. It doesn't have any relevance to this discussion.

 

I listed 14 first party Nintendo games planned for 2015 then said: "I wouldn't be surprised if we saw about one game per month in 2015". If you think that's an "absurd" thing to say and worthy of arguing so much against then that says it all. Your ridiculous offence at such a simple comment is what's utterly pointless, not me bringing it up again when you're once again arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

You really don't have a clue. There is already a big breadth of content already provided by everybody else out there. Just because it doesn't come from one developer (or one team of developers, one stable, whatever) doesn't mean it isn't deep or wide. I think @Sheikah already made this point before. You're literally comparing one division/developer with...everything else.

 

I'm talking about AAA gaming. That's all I've been talking about these past couple of pages. Destiny, Titanfall, Borderlands, COD, AC, watch dogs, Rainbow Six, Battlefield, Shadow of Mordor....

 

I find it ridiculous that he seems to think one company can provide more diversity than almost every other game dev company combined. Fucking arrogance really.

 

Quality contribution as per. I didn't say the above.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Dear oh dear. I was using it to illustrate my wish that triple AAA gaming could be that diverse. If ONE developer can do that kind of breadth of content the rest of the gaming world should be more diverse. But it isn't. My point about Nintendo PLUS indies being a breath of fresh air still stands.

 

This is like talking to a child. I have already given you a vast list of big name developers who are already creating these diverse games that you are talking about. They are already there, just not on Nintendo systems.

 

 

 

I'm talking about AAA gaming. That's all I've been talking about these past couple of pages. Destiny, Titanfall, Borderlands, COD, AC, watch dogs, Rainbow Six, Battlefield, Shadow of Mordor....

 

Are you implying that all of these belong to the same genre? You're just digging yourself into a huge hole here and are making it quite obvious that you know very little about these games. Destiny is a massive online game with elements of MMORPG and FPS. Watch Dogs is an open world game with a hacking element that contains a type of online that isn't all that common (the fact that you can invade other people's games, pretty awesome actually) and Shadow of Mordor is...like none of the above. So, you've listed a MMORPGFPS, an open world hacking title and a story driven adventure game. That's not even talking about the rest.

 

You are also conveniently missing out games such as Forza Horizon and DriveClub. But, I guess these two are identical because they are racers? (clue: they are not at all alike) Sunset Overdrive, Dragon Age, Alien: Isolation (it has a gun, must be a shooter), The Evil Within, LBP3 (I want it for the editing functions), Transistor, Geometry Wars 3, FF (the one Sheikah keeps bugging us to play), Don't Starve, etc. Maybe you should just forget about what you think AAA is and just enjoy what there is to offer out there. It'll probably blow your mind.

[Sheikah]

@Ronnie - Think about what an AAA game is though and why it needs a big budget. You're comparing an AAA game to much smaller games (e.g. Mario Maker) and basically pointing out that it's such a different game. Well of course it is. Mario Maker wouldn't need anywhere near the kind of AAA status budget. Thus, AAA games have similarities - the reason they have an AAA budget is to cover set pieces, environments, VA, graphics and raw scale. It's the same as if you complained that Indies were often disappointingly short - a reverse symptom caused by small budgets. You've already gated the games to suit your argument! Your Nintendo comparisons to the AAA titles also no doubt include both big budget (Xenoblade) and low budget games. So you've really presented a shitty argument stacked in your favour. It's like you've compared both high and low budget Nintendo games to JUST high budget games.

 

What you're saying also doesn't quite make sense, as there's still a lot of companies that are neither AAA producers (which is what I guess you mean by COD, Uncharted, AC, etc) or indie creators. Such as when Namco make Tales games, or MM make LBP or Tearaway. That budget is unlikely to be COD, but nor is it indie. Or when From Software make Demon's Souls - that's adding to diversity for sure, but hey, if it doesn't fit into your AAA bracket then you can continue to argue, amirite?

Edited December 23, 2014 by Sheikah

[Ronnie]

Can't be bothered with this any more. If you think the AAA landscape is diverse with a wide range of different games then it's pointless arguing with you. I believe it's restricted to a few smaller genres of games. Titles like No Man's Sky and what Nintendo are offering are a breath of fresh air. Sunset Overdrive, yet another openworld killing game deserves some credit for taking the piss out of the usual grey war shooters and doing something different. But otherwise AAA gaming is just dull IMO. But sadly it's what sells so they keep making the same games over and over, can't blame them.

[Pestneb]

Peace on Earth and goodwill to all men. A merry Christmas to us all, my dears. God bless us! God bless us, every one!

 

Sorry, wrong thread?

[Ashley]

In defence of shooters, Destiny uses colour in a fantastic way. Other than the moon (for environmental reasons) the worlds all feature great colour schemes and even the HUD itself uses colour coding really well.

 

Anyway, this is all getting a bit tired.

[Goron_3]

Yes, I am. It'd be labelled as "typical gimmicky Nintendo" and dismissed by the general populace.

 

Actually the general populace love gimmicks. Look at what the Wii did with motion controls or how many 'Brain Training' bundles Nintendo sold to people who likely stopped caring about the console a few months after they got it. Eyetoy and Kinect sold a few amount over the years too

 

The problem with gimmicks is shoe-horning, and this has been Nintendo's problem for sometime. Whereas with Brain Training and Wii Sports, they used the unique 'gimmick' to bring the game to life, they have often shoe horned silly gimmicks into other games. Skyward Sword was a fantastic example of this going wrong; why force people to use motion control to swim when you have an analogue stick that works much better? It would be like Microsoft forcing people to use Kinect to play Gears of War.

[Sheikah]

Can't be bothered with this any more...

 

A hint for the future - never get involved in arguments about games you neither own nor really know anything about.

 

Like they say, better to remain quiet and be thought a fool, than speak out and remove all doubt.

[Goron_3]

Can't be bothered with this any more. If you think the AAA landscape is diverse with a wide range of different games then it's pointless arguing with you. I believe it's restricted to a few smaller genres of games. Titles like No Man's Sky and what Nintendo are offering are a breath of fresh air. Sunset Overdrive, yet another openworld killing game deserves some credit for taking the piss out of the usual grey war shooters and doing something different. But otherwise AAA gaming is just dull IMO. But sadly it's what sells so they keep making the same games over and over, can't blame them.

 

I do think you've somewhat missed the point in what others are saying. The AAA market is still diverse albeit now much more tailored towards western tastes compared to in the past.

 

The other main difference of course is the lack of 'middleware' companies like Acclaim and THQ who provided that extra diversity in the industry, albeit with less quality.

[dazzybee]

How is it pointless? Just like many of us grew up with Nintendo and have stuck with them, there will also be big groups of Playstation fans and Microsoft fans who have been through the same thing (Microsoft are on their 3rd system, Sony their 4th). Nintendo fans aren't the only ones with some degree of brand loyalty. I know many gamers who grew up with Sony machines and are still sticking with them, for example. It's one way how the next generation are being introduced into gaming. It's not the only way, merely one route.

 

Because if it was that I'm portent Nintendo wouldn't be in s perpetual downward slope. Sony wouldn't be able to come in, with no history and twke number 1. Microsoft wouldn't have been able to dominate america like they did. I really don't think brand loyalty for consoles is that big.

 

To be fair, Sony fought hard for the PS3. It changed it's image, got third parties on board, buckled down on software, got the advertising out in the wild and made a price cut. They didn't need to create a gimmick to get people on board ( Wii ) where as Nintendo seem to be in a downward spiral that looks to continue if they don't plan on changing their ways or striking lucky again.

 

The Wii U was a bit of a mess from the start yet we didn't see any kind of the aggressive changes that Sony made to help the PS3 back on track. It makes you wonder if Nintendo are just happy plodding along, rather than being number 1.

 

I guess this was sort of my point, it wasn't brand loyalty how sony pulled jt around, it was improving in all their services, 360 was dominating who have the least history.

[Hero-of-Time]

I guess this was sort of my point, it wasn't brand loyalty how sony pulled jt around, it was improving in all their services, 360 was dominating who have the least history.

 

Absolutely.

 

My issue is that Nintendo haven't been aggressive enough ( if at all ) with getting the Wii U back on track.

 

As for brand loyalty, I don't think it's a big factor, especially for the masses. This generation has shown a massive switch from last, with the PS4 dominating the One. Could Nintendo turn it around next generation? Possibly. They certainly have a larger hill to climb than what Sony did with the PS3. Having a good online system ( a lot of people are clearly happy to pay for such a thing now ) and third party support is essential to get the mass market on board though.

 

Personally I think brand loyalty is hilarious, especially when it comes to gaming. There is such a diverse selection of games spread across ALL of the platforms that I don't think I could go back to owning just one device again.

[Fierce_LiNk]

In defence of shooters, Destiny uses colour in a fantastic way. Other than the moon (for environmental reasons) the worlds all feature great colour schemes and even the HUD itself uses colour coding really well.

 

Anyway, this is all getting a bit tired.

 

Nope. Shooters are all the same and ergo bad. :p

 

In all seriousness, I thought Destiny was beautiful in parts. A lot of variety there. The Moon was possibly my favourite location, though.

 

Because if it was that I'm portent Nintendo wouldn't be in s perpetual downward slope. Sony wouldn't be able to come in, with no history and twke number 1. Microsoft wouldn't have been able to dominate america like they did. I really don't think brand loyalty for consoles is that big.

 

I guess this was sort of my point, it wasn't brand loyalty how sony pulled jt around, it was improving in all their services, 360 was dominating who have the least history.

 

 

Noooooooo. I think we've got our wires crossed here.

 

My post was quoting @markderoos and following on from his thoughts, basically about Nintendo in the next generation. I mentioned @Goron_3s previous thread about children not growing up with Nintendo (now) and this is following on from that, hence why I said:

 

"It's one way how the next generation are being introduced into gaming. It's not the only way, merely one route."

 

I'm not really talking about the PS3/360 era and how Sony turned things around, but pointing out that one reason why certain children may not be growing up with Nintendo is because they're not being introduced by their parents or older siblings or people who grew up with them. Not THE reason, but one (albeit very small) route. For various reasons, there aren't enough gamers being introduced to Nintendo (also down to marketing issues) and this'll follow on to the next generation. There's not one sole reason why Nintendo are failing, but rather a variety and they're not building a fanbase for the future (as shown with declining sales), which I think @markderoos pointed out is getting smaller and smaller.

 

Also, as much as we think brand loyalty is hilarious...we're on a Nintendo messaging forum, so there is some brand loyalty to an extent. We think Nintendo make good games, many of us have stuck with them for years and some will continue to do so. We follow the news, watch the conferences, pre-order the games, etc. I do agree that the landscape has changed for Nintendo fans and it's not really all that viable to solely rely on a Nintendo machine for everything.

[Hero-of-Time]

Also, as much as we think brand loyalty is hilarious...we're on a Nintendo messaging forum, so there is some brand loyalty to an extent.

 

Could have fooled me.

 

I wonder if the ratio has now switched, with more people owning/playing another console than a Wii U. Would be interesting to take a count.

[dazzybee]

 

Noooooooo. I think we've got our wires crossed here.

 

My post was quoting @markderoos and following on from his thoughts, basically about Nintendo in the next generation. I mentioned @Goron_3s previous thread about children not growing up with Nintendo (now) and this is following on from that, hence why I said:

 

"It's one way how the next generation are being introduced into gaming. It's not the only way, merely one route."

 

I'm not really talking about the PS3/360 era and how Sony turned things around, but pointing out that one reason why certain children may not be growing up with Nintendo is because they're not being introduced by their parents or older siblings or people who grew up with them. Not THE reason, but one (albeit very small) route. For various reasons, there aren't enough gamers being introduced to Nintendo (also down to marketing issues) and this'll follow on to the next generation. There's not one sole reason why Nintendo are failing, but rather a variety and they're not building a fanbase for the future (as shown with declining sales), which I think @markderoos pointed out is getting smaller and smaller

 

Ah I see. I thought you guys were saying Nintendo are in trouble because kids don't play Nintendo anymore. It's a shame, but I don't think it matters. They can turn it around very quickly. They just need to provide gamers with what they want, and not stop, otherwise they'll walm away. Fickle bastards.

 

As for brand loyaly. I'd say I'm pretty loyal to Nintendo but I ky because I love their games and still do. Because of that I'm more likely to buy 3rd parties in their console over potentially better versions in other consoles... (Higher res indies for eg).

[markderoos]

Brand loyalty is indeed not very smart, but you can't ignore that a huge part of (especially the teenagers) segment is VERY brand loyal. All those flamewars between Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony fans are not because anybody can truly proof one consoles dominance over all others. It's the same with iOS vs Android, sometimes really tiresome because you can't win a discussion about taste, you can only endlessly discuss it

 

That's when I usually stop discussing; when people get offencive/defensive in regards to a difference in taste or preference.

 

A little bit of respect, nuance and kindness makes for a much more friendly discussion. : peace:

 

Jingle bells, jingle bells, lalalala and so on

[Fierce_LiNk]

Could have fooled me.

 

I wonder if the ratio has now switched, with more people owning/playing another console than a Wii U. Would be interesting to take a count.

 

The winner would be those who own more than one console. I think that would be the biggest group on the site, especially since most people in the other consoles board have both a WiiU and something else. After that, I dunno...there's a fair few who are just getting one now for Mario Kart or Smash.

 

The site has changed over the years though, so many people have left. Those who have stuck around have probably done so for the community rather than solely being fans of Nintendo. The Mario Kart league has had loads of members so there are still a few coming through the doors but we need moar.

 

Ah I see. I thought you guys were saying Nintendo are in trouble because kids don't play Nintendo anymore. It's a shame, but I don't think it matters. They can turn it around very quickly. They just need to provide gamers with what they want, and not stop, otherwise they'll walm away. Fickle bastards.

 

As for brand loyaly. I'd say I'm pretty loyal to Nintendo but I ky because I love their games and still do. Because of that I'm more likely to buy 3rd parties in their console over potentially better versions in other consoles... (Higher res indies for eg).

 

It's a huge problem though and I don't think it's as simple as making a powerful machine and throwing money at exclusives. The image that Nintendo have needs addressing and they're going to have to really go to town with the marketing to overturn that.