Wii Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 Still though I agree with you guys that they are much better with their own games. As people have said, this year has been especially bad for games coming out broken. You can only hope that the sheer amount of bad press the games got for it will stop it happening as much but who knows. None more broken at least certainly on the Wii U than this fella.
Rummy Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 I think it's pretty clear by this point that I'm not. And he has the nerve to call other people liars. I'll cut down on the provocative posts, but it's very hard to ignore when I see his rubbish. As said, add him to your ignore list. It isn't perfect, as Pestneb says you can still 'view' individual posts(essentially automatically spoilered) and as you'll have gathered - mentions and quotes will still notify you, as well as you possibly seeing others quoting posts you've ignored - but on the whole it will help to reduce the exposure that seems to get on your nerves so much. Man, haven't visited the Nintendo board for some time, but when did it become so toxic!? Loving my new Wii U, Mario Kart 8 and Smash are absolutely sublime. Quick question about region locking; I understand the software is region locked, but what about hardware? I'm going to Florida on Monday and want to pick up some extra controllers. Will they work? I don't think controllers etc are likely to be, though I'm not sure. Iirc correctly the Gamepad wasn't - the WiiU can rewrite the firmware on it to tie it to the console you sync it with? I'm sure I remember reading around launch about JP Gamepads being used on Western consoles(or the other way round). If they aren't locked, I highly doubt Wiimotes or propads are - what were you thinking of buying?
MATtheHAT Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 what were you thinking of buying? Two Wiimote +'s. Thinking about it, there shouldn't be anything inside the hardware to lock it to a specific region, should there?
Wii Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 Two Wiimote +'s. Thinking about it, there shouldn't be anything inside the hardware to lock it to a specific region, should there? No all controllers are region free.
Pestneb Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 Nice marketing ploy from Nintendo but the one probleme especially with Wii U is that it's all nintendo games. What does someone do once they have played them all or want something different. Example I came across recently at work. Guy looking at buying new console for his son. Asked me about Wii U, told him about the good games etc. Said his son loves Mario kart but also loves fifa, loves COD and FPS games in general. Currently plays forza on 360 also. Once I told him that there is no driving sims, no football games, no shooters etc he said he is will have to get PS4 or xbox one. That's not strictly speaking true, what about splatoon? But seriously there are games his son may have liked, Fifa 13, Splinter cell, mass effect etc. Of course it is likely he had those games but it's not as if there is a complete lack of those games. And hey, maybe he really would have liked splatoon
Goafer Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) One really striking thing is that they're all sequels. I've seen people posting long lists of recent new Nintendo IPs, they clearly aren't significant enough or up to the standards of the long established franchises. What struck me is how many "doubles" and remakes are in there. Bayonetta and Bayonetta 2 may as well be the same game (as well as Bayonetta being a re-release of a previous gen title), Pokemon X and Y basically are too and Smash on the 3DS is basically a cut down version of the WiiU version. Windwaker HD, Ocarina of Time and Animal Crossing are just remakes of previous gen games. Not sure on Luigi's Mansion, so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. Feel free to correct me if it is a re-release. If you look at unique games (not just different versions of the same game) that were actually made just for this generation, the total is more like 13. Edited December 20, 2014 by Goafer
Rummy Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 Two Wiimote +'s. Thinking about it, there shouldn't be anything inside the hardware to lock it to a specific region, should there? I shouldn't think so, but as said I don't know for sure. General consensus seems to be that it's fine though, so I reckon you'll be ok. Weren't people importing some of the special wiimotes and stuff too? I sadly have no actual sources to hand but I'm sure I've seen that it's all fine.
Sheikah Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) What struck me is how many "doubles" and remakes are in there. Bayonetta and Bayonetta 2 may as well be the same game (as well as Bayonetta being a re-release of a previous gen title), Pokemon X and Y basically are too and Smash on the 3DS is basically a cut down version of the WiiU version. Windwaker HD, Ocarina of Time and Animal Crossing are just remakes of previous gen games. Not sure on Luigi's Mansion, so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. Feel free to correct me if it is a re-release. If you look at unique games (not just different versions of the same game) that were actually made just for this generation, the total is more like 13. Exactly, absolutely everything there is a sequel or remake, bar Bravely Default. Wii U at least is certainly not the go to console for new and exciting experiences. Edited December 20, 2014 by Sheikah
Glen-i Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 Smash on the 3DS is basically a cut down version of the WiiU version. Apart from having arguably better stages, Smash Run, a different style of Classic mode and Streetsmash? I can't stand the conception that Smash 3DS is somehow a "lesser" version of Smash. It's bordering on ignorant. (As far as quality of content goes, 3DS has far superior stages for me)
Serebii Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) Exactly, absolutely everything there is a sequel or remake, bar Bravely Default. Wii U at least is certainly not the go to console for new and exciting experiences. Because a sequel means it's not new or exciting? Ok. Apart from having arguably better stages, Smash Run, a different style of Classic mode and Streetsmash? I can't stand the conception that Smash 3DS is somehow a "lesser" version of Smash. It's bordering on ignorant. (As far as quality of content goes, 3DS has far superior stages for me) I do wish they could somehow make it so you could get the 3DS stages in the Wii U one. Playing the 3DS one is just so uncomfortable in comparison :/ What struck me is how many "doubles" and remakes are in there. Bayonetta and Bayonetta 2 may as well be the same game (as well as Bayonetta being a re-release of a previous gen title), Pokemon X and Y basically are too and Smash on the 3DS is basically a cut down version of the WiiU version. Pokémon I'll give you, but Bayonettas? No. How is Bayonetta 1 & 2 "the same game"? Also, so what if Bayonetta 1 is an enhanced port of a previous gen title? So's The Last of Us on PS4, Halo Master Chief Collection on Xbox One, GTA V on both etc. The two Smash's are also vastly different. The only thinsg that are the same are the characters and engine. Edited December 20, 2014 by Serebii Automerged Doublepost
Goron_3 Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 Well let's hope Splatoon pays off. It's a big risk. People often say they want new IPs, but when they get ones like The Wonderful 101, new Nintendo owned IP, developed by a world renowned developer, fantastic title, no game breaking issues at launch and bam...it sells worse than "I Love My Horses". Human beings in general hate change. They say they want new stuff, but we really cling onto what we know. Truth is, while some new IPs do sell every generation, the large majority do not, even if from renowned developers This is cute. TW101 didn't sell because it's a niche title aimed at a niche audience. It also received mixed reviews and the audience who owned the console didn't support that genre (and likely never will). The same applies to titles like Viewtiful Joe and even Bayonetta. We've been through this before; please avoid repeating the same messages. New 1st party I.P's generally sell really well, providing they meet the market requirements. Just look at Microsoft and Sony for dozens of examples. They can also provide that 'system seller' feel that a console needs, just as Uncharted 2 and Gears did for their respective consoles. Splatoon isn't a risk; it will sell loads because it's a 1st party title with a great budget behind it that meets the needs to the target market. It won't sell systems (nothing will at this point) but it is the perfect game for the Wii U market.
Goafer Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 Apart from having arguably better stages, Smash Run, a different style of Classic mode and Streetsmash? I can't stand the conception that Smash 3DS is somehow a "lesser" version of Smash. It's bordering on ignorant. (As far as quality of content goes, 3DS has far superior stages for me) Well, ok that was my misunderstanding. But they're basically the same game, at least in terms of gameplay/style etc. It's not exactly showcasing the variety on offer is it*? Pokémon I'll give you, but Bayonettas? No. How is Bayonetta 1 & 2 "the same game"? Also, so what if Bayonetta 1 is an enhanced port of a previous gen title? So's The Last of Us on PS4, Halo Master Chief Collection on Xbox One, GTA V on both etc. As mentioned above, they're close enough in terms of gameplay and style to be the same. I have nothing against sequels (I quite like Bayonetta as far as it goes), but when you have to resort to using every game in the series as a separate selling point, it just comes across as desperate. As for the PS4/XBO games you mentioned, I never stated that I agreed with that either. It's probably the reason why I don't own a next gen console yet. I'm waiting for there to be enough unique, new games to be released. The Last of Us is probably my favourite game of the last generation, but I'll be fucked if I'm paying to play it again. The main point I'm making is that the poster is a piece of marketing, so it will have been put together to make the WiiU seem as amazing as possible. To me it just seems a bit desperate that they have to count the 2 Pokemons and Bayonettas as separate games and rely on remakes (some of which are 2 generations old now) to bulk out the lineup, especially when they're using it as the best of what they have to offer. *Speaking of variety, at least 13 of those 19 games could easily be described as cute or cartoony. As much as people like to mock the PS4 and XBO for offering 50 shades of brown, Nintendo are hardly any better in terms of offering different aesthetics.
Serebii Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) As mentioned above, they're close enough in terms of gameplay and style to be the same. I have nothing against sequels (I quite like Bayonetta as far as it goes), but when you have to resort to using every game in the series as a separate selling point, it just comes across as desperate. As for the PS4/XBO games you mentioned, I never stated that I agreed with that either. It's probably the reason why I don't own a next gen console yet. I'm waiting for there to be enough unique, new games to be released. The Last of Us is probably my favourite game of the last generation, but I'll be fucked if I'm paying to play it again. The main point I'm making is that the poster is a piece of marketing, so it will have been put together to make the WiiU seem as amazing as possible. To me it just seems a bit desperate that they have to count the 2 Pokemons and Bayonettas as separate games and rely on remakes (some of which are 2 generations old now) to bulk out the lineup, especially when they're using it as the best of what they have to offer. *Speaking of variety, at least 13 of those 19 games could easily be described as cute or cartoony. As much as people like to mock the PS4 and XBO for offering 50 shades of brown, Nintendo are hardly any better in terms of offering different aesthetics. How is it "desperate"? They were highlighting the games that had achieved the benchmark they set. Does it matter that some are sequels? No. They are games. They are on the console. They meet the damned metric. The same argument can be made for remakes. If you are saying that "gameplay" means games are the same, then god knows what your view of every other console lineup in history is, especially ones over the last 10 years. Seriously, it is such an asinine statement. Remake or sequel, they are still games of their own worth and should not be discounted, especially sequels. Edited December 20, 2014 by Serebii
Goafer Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 They meet the damned metric. It is such an asinine statement. Firstly, calm down. This is hardly the way to have a grown up discussion. At no point did I take an aggressive/overly defensive tone in my posts. I'd appreciate it if you extended me the same courtesy. How is it "desperate"? They were highlighting the games that had achieved the benchmark they set. Does it matter that some are sequels? No. They are games. They are on the console. It just seems like they're artificially inflating the number of top tier games by including games which are IMO too similar to be counted as separate reasons to own the console. If you are saying that "gameplay" means games are the same, then god knows what your view of every other console lineup in history is, especially ones over the last 10 years. I'm not saying that just gameplay makes a game the same, but it does when combined with the same style and setting. A good comparison would be films. The gameplay of every single film is identical (no gameplay at all), but the style, setting, aesthetics and story change for each one, which makes up the variety. With the Bayonettas, Pokemons and Smashes, not enough changes between them for me to consider them separate games/selling points. If you were trying to sell a console to someone and they said they didn't like Pokemon X, you'd hardly follow up with saying that it also had Pokemon Y. That's why I don't consider them separate selling points. It's basically just repeating itself to seem like there's more on offer. With games such as COD and Halo (neither of which I like by the way), the gameplay is largely the same, but the setting, style and story are worlds apart. To me, these two series' are separate selling points for a system because the games are different enough.
Serebii Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) Firstly, calm down. This is hardly the way to have a grown up discussion. At no point did I take an aggressive/overly defensive tone in my posts. I'd appreciate it if you extended me the same courtesy. It just seems like they're artificially inflating the number of top tier games by including games which are IMO too similar to be counted as separate reasons to own the console. I'm not saying that just gameplay makes a game the same, but it does when combined with the same style and setting. A good comparison would be films. The gameplay of every single film is identical (no gameplay at all), but the style, setting, aesthetics and story change for each one, which makes up the variety. With the Bayonettas, Pokemons and Smashes, not enough changes between them for me to consider them separate games/selling points. If you were trying to sell a console to someone and they said they didn't like Pokemon X, you'd hardly follow up with saying that it also had Pokemon Y. That's why I don't consider them separate selling points. It's basically just repeating itself to seem like there's more on offer. With games such as COD and Halo (neither of which I like by the way), the gameplay is largely the same, but the setting, style and story are worlds apart. To me, these two series' are separate selling points for a system because the games are different enough. So, whenever people are discussing games, they should no longer include sequels because the gameplay is too similar to previous ones? Do you realise how ridiculous that is. Also, you seem to misunderstand the entire point of the image. It wasn't to say "buy these" per se, but was rather saying "Look at these games on our platforms that have over 8.5 metacritic both user and review, and look at how many more we have over the other consoles combined". It's as simple as that. Just because you think sequels and remakes are "useless" and "shouldn't count" does not make it so. They are games. They are for sale. They are on the platform. They have been reviewed. They are every bit as valid as brand new IPs. The fact that you consider Bayonetta 1 and Bayonetta 2 to be the same game is just outright bizarre. You say CoD etc. are different due to different setting...these two have radically different settings, style and stories...and mechanics, plus the sequel came out 5 years after the original, as well. As I said, I agree that separating Pokémon is a bit silly, but that wasn't Nintendo's doing, that was Metacritic and the fact various outlets reviewed them separately. Edited December 20, 2014 by Serebii
Sheikah Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 The main point I'm making is that the poster is a piece of marketing, so it will have been put together to make the WiiU seem as amazing as possible. To me it just seems a bit desperate that they have to count the 2 Pokemons and Bayonettas as separate games and rely on remakes (some of which are 2 generations old now) to bulk out the lineup, especially when they're using it as the best of what they have to offer. Oh yeah, definitely. Only the most ardent Nintendo fanboy would be able to look past the extreme bias (to the point of ridiculousness) in that poster. Even it we put aside that they have arbitrarily gated at an 85% metacritic + user score (naturally selected as this will have resulted in the most favourable comparison chart), counting the Pokemon games twice really does discredit it. I'd say the same for Smash, and probably the same for Bayonetta, given that it wasn't exactly getting the remaster treatment that we've seen on other consoles.
Serebii Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) Oh yeah, definitely. Only the most ardent Nintendo fanboy would be able to look past the extreme bias (to the point of ridiculousness) in that poster. Even it we put aside that they have arbitrarily gated at an 85% metacritic + user score (naturally selected as this will have resulted in the most favourable comparison chart), counting the Pokemon games twice really does discredit it. I'd say the same for Smash, and probably the same for Bayonetta, given that it wasn't exactly getting the remaster treatment that we've seen on other consoles. Improved frame rate, visuals and new features isn't the same treatment? Maybe it needed to be released broken like Halo for you to count it. Smash also isn't the bloody same game across two formats. Good god, I get you're biased against Nintendo, but you're being ridiculous. Seriously, read what you said again and then think about it. Edited December 20, 2014 by Serebii
Sheikah Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 Improved frame rate, visuals and new features isn't the same treatment? Maybe it needed to be released broken like Halo for you to count it. Smash also isn't the bloody same game across two formats. Good god, I get you're biased against Nintendo, but you're being ridiculous. Seriously, read what you said again and then think about it. Hang on, the game was 60 FPS on 360 and Wii U. Digital Foundry said Wii U slightly edges it because it was slightly better at keeping the framerate, but said the 360 did a good job overall of keeping to 60 FPS. Resolution is also comparable. Sorry, but that is not an impressive remake that I'd have gone for if I had the original. My point is that counting a port that offers very little new on a poster to show off a new console is somewhat straw clutching, just like counting Pokemon twice. Smash may have features unique to each version but it's hardly something I'd count twice if making a promotional poster. They share an awful lot of similarities and it's hardly showing off diversity here.
Goafer Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 So, whenever people are discussing games, they should no longer include sequels because the gameplay is too similar to previous ones? Do you realise how ridiculous that is. No, I'm saying they should count as separate selling points, for the reason I pointed out before (the "but is also has Pokemon Y" example, in case you missed it). Also, you seem to misunderstand the entire point of the image. It wasn't to say "buy these" per se, but was rather saying "Look at these games on our platforms that have over 8.5 metacritic both user and review, and look at how many more we have over the other consoles combined". It's as simple as that. Well it is. Or it is at least saying "Buy our console over the others". That's the whole reason marketing pieces exist. It's trying to make their products seem better than the competition, much like every company's advertising. What I'm saying is that it unravels a bit under scrutiny and it's not as clear cut as 19 vs 8. Just because you think sequels and remakes are "useless" and "shouldn't count" does not make it so. They are games. They are for sale. They are on the platform. They have been reviewed. They are every bit as valid as brand new IPs. Why is useless in quotes? I haven't said that once. I don't mind sequels, but using them as separate reasons why your company is better than the competition just doesn't seem good enough to me (again, see the "it also has Pokemon Y" example in a previous post). The fact that you consider Bayonetta 1 and Bayonetta 2 to be the same game is just outright bizarre. You say CoD etc. are different due to different setting...these two have radically different settings, style and stories...and mechanics, plus the sequel came out 5 years after the original, as well. Again, this just comes down to separate selling points. Nintendo chose to put numbers on the advert/picture as a comparison between it and the competition. I'm just saying these numbers have been artificially inflated IMO.
Serebii Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 No, I'm saying they should count as separate selling points, for the reason I pointed out before (the "but is also has Pokemon Y" example, in case you missed it). I honestly don't understand why you don't want to include sequels. It's bizarre and illogical to not include them. Well it is. Or it is at least saying "Buy our console over the others". That's the whole reason marketing pieces exist. It's trying to make their products seem better than the competition, much like every company's advertising. What I'm saying is that it unravels a bit under scrutiny and it's not as clear cut as 19 vs 8. It doesn't unravel under scrutiny. It reveals under pedantry and attempts to deflate things because you don't like what it shows. Why is useless in quotes? I haven't said that once. Withdrawn. I don't mind sequels, but using them as separate reasons why your company is better than the competition just doesn't seem good enough to me (again, see the "it also has Pokemon Y" example in a previous post). Why not? It's not like Nintendo just churns out the same game over and over. They change so much in sequels Again, this just comes down to separate selling points. Nintendo chose to put numbers on the advert/picture as a comparison between it and the competition. I'm just saying these numbers have been artificially inflated IMO. Well your opinion is wrong here. Aside from Pokémon X & Y (which I agree with you in), everything is a valid title. They are unique, on sale, on the console and have been reviewed. Job done. Just because you disagree with sequels and remakes being counted doesn't mean they don't count as titles on the system. Hang on, the game was 60 FPS on 360 and Wii U. Digital Foundry said Wii U slightly edges it because it was slightly better at keeping the framerate, but said the 360 did a good job overall of keeping to 60 FPS. Resolution is also comparable. Sorry, but that is not an impressive remake that I'd have gone for if I had the original. My point is that counting a port that offers very little new on a poster to show off a new console is somewhat straw clutching, just like counting Pokemon twice. It's still a title on the console. Just because it's not a "big leap" doesn't mean it's not and shouldn't be counted Smash may have features unique to each version but it's hardly something I'd count twice if making a promotional poster. They share an awful lot of similarities and it's hardly showing off diversity here. Features unique to each version? Only characters and engine are shared between the two versions. Modes, gameplay, features etc. are all different. There's more different between Smash Wii U and Smash 3DS than between Halo 4 and Halo Reach. They are different games on different devices. Accept it and stop being so damned stubborn. You are wrong here and that is a fact.
Sheikah Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) It's not about the titles not counting, it's about the piece of marketing failing (at least in my eyes) because of the heavy bias and counting of very similar titles/ports to show off the console. I would say the same if Sony did it by counting both Vita/PS3 versions or near enough straight ports too. Heck, I wouldn't be that happy if they filled it up with their remasters either. Features unique to each version? Only characters and engine are shared between the two versions. Modes, gameplay, features etc. are all different. There's more different between Smash Wii U and Smash 3DS than between Halo 4 and Halo Reach. They are different games on different devices. Accept it and stop being so damned stubborn. You are wrong here and that is a fact. Same characters, same gameplay, released very close together, both called "Super Smash Brothers" with the console title following it. Sorry, but even with differing features between the consoles (which they're bound to have to get people to buy them both) it's clear they are both tailored releases of the same basic game. If they were released at the exact same time then nobody would say otherwise. Edited December 20, 2014 by Sheikah
Mr-Paul Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 Bias? Of course a piece of marketing from Nintendo is going to be biased in every way towards Nintendo! :p I'd be worried if it wasn't!
Sheikah Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 Bias? Of course a piece of marketing from Nintendo is going to be biased in every way towards Nintendo! :p I'd be worried if it wasn't! Oh of course. But it's not good marketing to make something so biased that it is unconvincing. I mean, the point is to convince people it really does have loads more great games, right? Listing Pokemon X and Y is a pretty good example, because most people would see those 2 listed and get the impression that the figures were inflated.
Goafer Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) It doesn't unravel under scrutiny. It reveals under pedantry and attempts to deflate things because you don't like what it shows. Honestly, I don't really care what it shows. I personally have very little interest in Nintendo's current lineup, but I also have no desire to see them fail. What I do have interest in is advertising. I saw something that I found interesting and posted on it. Edited December 20, 2014 by Goafer I don't want to add to the bickering.
Mr-Paul Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 Oh of course. But it's not good marketing to make something so biased that it is unconvincing. I mean, the point is to convince people it really does have loads more great games, right? Listing Pokemon X and Y is a pretty good example, because most people would see those 2 listed and get the impression that the figures were inflated. Pokémon X/Y being separate is the only thing that really makes it fall apart, to me. Yes, Smash is on there twice, but it is two separate lists of Wii U and 3DS games, reviewed separately, so they couldn't really leave one out. This advert isn't necessarily saying you need to have both. It's just showing what's on offer on each console. Maybe the conditions for being on this poster are slightly contrived, but it's not really worth getting worked up about.
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