Wii U General Discussion

[Sheikah]

Y'know, chalking up the Wii as an "anomaly" kinda weakens the argument, as we're not talking about randomly generated numbers. Nintendo made the gimmick work, and marketed it well.

 

But it was an anomaly.

 

Regardless of the fact it was designed and not randomly created (didn't say it was), the success of the thing was by all accounts an anomaly. Nobody could have predicted the success - nor the sudden drop off (look at Wii Sports on Wii U). Ok, perhaps not true on the latter - most of us saw the drop off, but Nintendo apparently didn't. It's a textbook example of a craze. The kind of thing that sells extremely well and gains massive amounts of exposure, then before too long drops off and nobody cares about it much anymore.

 

 

The Wii sold well for years, that isn't happenstance (which is what statistical anomalies are supposed to be). There isn't even a clear correlation between the Gamecube and the Wii U, either, as each console had its own share of problems, and existed in different eras (though there are significant similarities).

 

Actually, there's no maximum amount of time that a craze can last. Either way, consoles may have sold well, but the Wii games did not sell that well relative to the size of the install base in the last few years. Most top charting games in this time were not Wii games, and the Wii lost a lot of support. Again, that shows the frivolous nature of the audience it attracted. They were buying it for Wii Sports, and maybe a few other titles, but they simply weren't the audience to continue to buy games on it, or have it as their primary console.

 

 

So, even if it sounds like he has a point, I assure you: it is entirely by accident.

 

I don't believe you really think he is accidentally stumbling upon the answers. Anyone with a reasonable grasp of the current situation would call for similar things. Maybe not for Nintendo to go third party (although I do agree), and I don't think cloud gaming is the way yet. But at some point it will most likely be the way we play.

 

 

I'm more of the opinion that the Wii proved that Nintendo can think outside of the box. Had they continued doing what they were doing with the Cube, they would be a much smaller company nowadays. Nintendo adapted to its difficulties at the time, a quality that any successful company should have, and is now in a position to potentially do the same. It kept them in the game, which is exactly what they needed. The family/kiddy/casual image was already there, the Wii didn't worsen it (though it did create the term "casual" )

 

I don't think the two beliefs are mutually exclusive. They thought outside the box, for sure. But at the same time it came at a great cost, as the result of the Wii is the Wii U (including the Gamepad and casual specification). The Wii may have brought transient success and money, but the trajectory they've gone off at is pretty bad for both casuals and core gamers (if we're going to keep using those terms) alike.

 

I don't think the Wii U gamepad was that severe a blow, Sheikah. It didn't help with selling the console, but it was no Virtual Boy or Mega CD. The Wii U is not Nintendo's "long run" by itself, either. It's a "middle run" at best

 

I disagree there. I think the Gamepad is a piece of the problem, but still a rather large piece. I'm not calling out the pad physically, but more what it represents. The Gamepad was their focus; something that took pride of place over making their console more powerful or contain the features that third parties want. It cranked the price up to £300. Supposing they hadn't run with it, the thing may either be super cheap or they may have opted to power the thing up. Most of all, it just wasn't really necessary and isn't well supported. The PS4 shows that people are happy to have the best games console they can while leaving it to developers to innovate through software. You don't always need a gimmick, but I think the Wii somehow made Nintendo think they did.

 

Running with a gimmick peripheral is risky, since it either takes off (Wii) or doesn't (Wii U). This is basically the opposite of what Sony does, who tends to innovate their home consoles less, but have pretty much delivered every single generation (despite the shaky PS3 start). Different ways of approaching it, I guess, but I know which I prefer.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Sheikah

[Serebii]

Oh so people can just use "It's Serebii" in future?

 

You say that as if they don't here already...

[Wii]

Nintendo Minute – August Favorites = Nintendo Advertisement

 

 

I really shouldn't but here I hope you enjoy this as much as I did which is I didn't. It's not Nintendo Minute, more like Nintendo Advertisement. The 2 presenters are such liars and it's so condescending.

[Serebii]

Nintendo Minute – August Favorites = Nintendo Advertisement

 

 

I really shouldn't but here I hope you enjoy this as much as I did which is I didn't. It's not Nintendo Minute, more like Nintendo Advertisement. The 2 presenters are such liars and it's so condescending.

HOLD UP.

 

You're telling me that a Nintendo created feature is advertising games on Nintendo devices?

 

Holy crap. The world is ending.

[Wii]

HOLD UP.

 

You're telling me that a Nintendo created feature is advertising games on Nintendo devices?

 

Holy crap. The world is ending.

 

No the world's not ending...yet.

[S.C.G]

I honestly couldn't watch more than a minute or so of that video, I switched off after...

 

'Oh I've been playing a tonne of this game'

 

The it turns out that she's only about maybe a third of the way through.

 

Let's say that Professor Layton VS Pheonix Wright: Ace Attorney is about 20 hours or so long, a third of the game is only six and a half hours or so... sven if we're being generous, not exactly what I'd call 'a tonne' if they have actually been playing those games at all.

[Hero-of-Time]

I honestly couldn't watch more than a minute or so of that video, I switched off after...

 

'Oh I've been playing a tonne of this game'

 

The it turns out that she's only about maybe a third of the way through.

 

Let's say that Professor Layton VS Pheonix Wright: Ace Attorney is about 20 hours or so long, a third of the game is only six and a half hours or so... sven if we're being generous, not exactly what I'd call 'a tonne' if they have actually been playing those games at all.

 

That's my biggest issue with such videos. If they were looking to promote certain games then I would have more respect if they shoved a trailer on.

 

It's why I enjoy independent podcasts ( like Radio Free Nintendo ) because when they have said they've played a game you know for a fact they have, due to the detail they go into.

 

I get that this is just essentially an advert but I'm sure there are better ways to go about it.

[Ronnie]

I can't watch "Kit and Krista" "present" for longer than 10 seconds without dying a little inside. They really are that painful to watch. Zero chemistry. Zero charisma. I'm sure they're nice people in real life but come on.

[Wii]

I honestly couldn't watch more than a minute or so of that video, I switched off after...

 

'Oh I've been playing a tonne of this game'

 

The it turns out that she's only about maybe a third of the way through.

 

Let's say that Professor Layton VS Pheonix Wright: Ace Attorney is about 20 hours or so long, a third of the game is only six and a half hours or so... sven if we're being generous, not exactly what I'd call 'a tonne' if they have actually been playing those games at all.

 

Absolutely. Her mantra as she puts it is that if you get your score above 1,000 points, you're doing O.K. and her score is like 1,100. You start at 1,000 points you silly woman. How could she be at 1,100 after playing for so long? And him, he's been playing Xenoblade Chronicles. Where's he been all this time? It just so happens to tie in to the Shulk reveal in Smash. What a coincidence. Bleurgh!

[Clownferret]

Being so insular is an issue when the company continues to lose money and in the space of 1 generation has seen there market share on the home console front completely evaporate. They have a console which is odds on to be there worst ever commercially performing piece of hardware. Remaining so insular will do nothing to reverse this journey to decline and irrelevance.

 

But it was being insular that made the Wii one of the biggest selling consoles of all time. I bet you're the kind of guy that wants his teams manager sacked the minute they lose a few games.

And let's nor forget companies make most of their money from game sales not console sales, so whilst nintendo usually sell less hardware than Sony or Microsoft they own the software side with nintendo games regularly topping the all time sales charts for each generation of

[liger05]

But it was being insular that made the Wii one of the biggest selling consoles of all time. I bet you're the kind of guy that wants his teams manager sacked the minute they lose a few games.

And let's nor forget companies make most of their money from game sales not console sales, so whilst nintendo usually sell less hardware than Sony or Microsoft they own the software side with nintendo games regularly topping the all time sales charts for each generation of

 

Has that been the way for Nintendo? Historically they have always looked to sell the console at a profit from day 1 and not take a hit on the hardware.

 

Also overall the Wii U software sales are not exactly stellar.

Yet the performance of the Gamecube was seen as failure by Iwata and by that metric the Wii U must also be a failure as its tracking worse.

 

software sales do generate money but that doesnt mean the hardware can tank.

 

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-10-24-wii-u-attach-rate-outlook-highly-unrealistic-says-pachter

 

"Nintendo has guided to Wii U hardware sales of only 5.5 million units in FY:13, below the 6 - 7 million that we had previously expected. In addition, guidance for 24 million Wii U software units in FY:13 implies an attach rate of over four games.

 

The result from such target 3.45 million units sold. Likewise, the software target was reduced from 24 million to 16 million, yet only 13.42 million games were sold.

 

While certain games will sell big numbers overall the software sales on the wii u are pretty awful. Bomba after bomba after bomba.

[Serebii]

Has that been the way for Nintendo? Historically they have always looked to sell the console at a profit from day 1 and not take a hit on the hardware.

 

Also overall the Wii U software sales are not exactly stellar.

Yet the performance of the Gamecube was seen as failure by Iwata and by that metric the Wii U must also be a failure as its tracking worse.

 

software sales do generate money but that doesnt mean the hardware can tank.

 

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-10-24-wii-u-attach-rate-outlook-highly-unrealistic-says-pachter

 

 

 

The result from such target 3.45 million units sold. Likewise, the software target was reduced from 24 million to 16 million, yet only 13.42 million games were sold.

 

While certain games will sell big numbers overall the software sales on the wii u are pretty awful. Bomba after bomba after bomba.

So that means Nintendo should become a "me too" company? No. Being somewhat insular is what's best for them, and best for gaming.

 

I'm not saying that there aren't faults they need to sort, but come on. Nobody is saying that the Wii U is selling well either. Nobody can think that and reiterating that point in every of your posts is tiresome.

[liger05]

So that means Nintendo should become a "me too" company? No. Being somewhat insular is what's best for them, and best for gaming.

 

I'm not saying that there aren't faults they need to sort, but come on. Nobody is saying that the Wii U is selling well either. Nobody can think that and reiterating that point in every of your posts is tiresome.

 

enough of the "me too" company already. I dont see how Nintendo actually adapting to needs and wants of the market and coming out of the bubble they currently operate in means they automatically become the same as the competition.

 

Consoles like phones, like tv's like tablets etc etc all pretty much will do the same thing but will have details which make them unique or desirable. There is nothing wrong with that. I dont see why Nintendo somehow get a pass for some of the crazy decisions they make just because they are insular or not a "me too company".

 

It's not even as if the company is performing well yet some seem to want them to continue down this path to irrelevancy. I dont see how that is a benefit to anyone.

[Sheikah]

You don't want Nintendo to become 'me too' in the sense of delivering a powerful console, robust online services and third party support? Ok.

[Josh64]

I don't see how being so insular is good in any way. And keeping up with current trends doesn't mean they have to stop being innovative if they want/feel that's what they should do.

 

The Wii is a good example. It sold masses and as has been said, it could have been due to their insular nature. But what I think is, they could be innovative but also take inspiration from other companies. Imagine how much better the Wii would have been if, along with it's innovative remote, it also had an online service and UI on par the X360? Sure, it wouldn't have changed the initial sales that much, but I'm pretty sure it would have helped it immeasurably in staying relevant past 2010, when it really started losing steam, support and interest from the general public.

[Wii]

MIIVERSE USER DRAWS AMAZING TRIBUTE TO ROBIN WILLIAMS

 

 

An extremely talented Miiverse user has sketched an incredible tribute to American actor and comedian, Robin Williams. It took Miiverse user Craig thirteen hours to complete the sketch which is possibly the best depiction of someone I’ve seen on the social network.

 

http://mynintendonews.com/2014/09/07/miiverse-user-draws-amazing-tribute-to-robin-williams/

 

Lovely tribute and a Godly impressive use of Miiverse and their talent. I'm in awe of people with such unbelievable ability.

 

Something this amazing belongs here as well.

[Jonnas]

I disagree there. I think the Gamepad is a piece of the problem, but still a rather large piece. I'm not calling out the pad physically, but more what it represents. The Gamepad was their focus; something that took pride of place over making their console more powerful or contain the features that third parties want. It cranked the price up to £300. Supposing they hadn't run with it, the thing may either be super cheap or they may have opted to power the thing up. Most of all, it just wasn't really necessary and isn't well supported. The PS4 shows that people are happy to have the best games console they can while leaving it to developers to innovate through software. You don't always need a gimmick, but I think the Wii somehow made Nintendo think they did.

 

All of this boils down to: I think the presence of the U pad is a minor hurdle, you think it's major. I think you're overstating Nintendo's slump, you think I underestimate it.

 

Since we've talked about this subject a few times, I think we can leave this at that.

 

I don't believe you really think he is accidentally stumbling upon the answers. Anyone with a reasonable grasp of the current situation would call for similar things. Maybe not for Nintendo to go third party (although I do agree), and I don't think cloud gaming is the way yet. But at some point it will most likely be the way we play.

 

Oh, Sheikah, you word opinions as badly as Serebii, sometimes.

 

He's calling for exclusively cloud-based gaming. As in, buying and playing games from the cloud, instead of storing them, digitally or physically. And it was in the context of that comment that he criticised Nintendo.

 

Like I said in other threads, my Wii couldn't connect properly to online for a good time, simply because the one place in the house where the Wii could go had bad wi-fi reception. In Germany, my student residence had a transfer limit, meaning that if I had a cloud-based console, I would only be able to play a few hours per month.

 

There was major public backlash when Microsoft announced a console that needed to be online once per day, how do you think the public would react to once per second?

 

He's calling for it to happen soon, too. I'm sure things like the Mega CD were also the future, too, at the time they were released. I highly doubt households that accomodate cloud-based gaming will become the standard in the near future. Whenever I hear opinions like Pachter's, I can't help but think that the people who believe that are being insular themselves.

[Sheikah]

Oh, Sheikah, you word opinions as badly as Serebii, sometimes.

 

Woah, what? You're the one saying "if it looks like he has a point, it's an accident". If you want to look for people making shitty points, look inwards. :p

 

He's calling for exclusively cloud-based gaming. As in, buying and playing games from the cloud, instead of storing them, digitally or physically. And it was in the context of that comment that he criticised Nintendo.

 

Obviously this is a bad idea right now (although at some point it definitely will be the future) but that doesn't mean he doesn't make a lot of sense on other occasions. You can't just dismiss his points across the board as 'coincidental' if he is reviewing the competition and trends.

 

Case in point, his call for Nintendo to ditch hardware is a good shout, because their hardware is pretty shitty and is basically a barrier to their otherwise often very good software. His calling for Iwata to go is also spot on - he's really not at all what the current Nintendo needs. There's no doubt he talks some shit and has made predictions that turned out bunk, but he can also make a lot of sense, so I don't agree with dismissing him outright like you. If he was truly randomly picking out his predictions or just going with the current trend, it's unlikely he would have ever gained much attention. I basically think that with him it's very much a case of pick and choose what he's saying based on his reasoning and your own beliefs.

 

Lol @Serebii thanking your post after you pretty much ripped him.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Sheikah

[Zechs Merquise]

You don't want Nintendo to become 'me too' in the sense of delivering a powerful console, robust online services and third party support? Ok.

 

XBO and PS4 are essentially identical. Whilst Nintendo does lack the robust online services and third party support it offers something different.

 

Games like Kirby's Canvas Curse are a perfect example. A vibrant art style and something different to what others are doing. That's the Nintendo philosophy. It makes Nintendo stand out in a good way.

 

Just take Super Mario 3D World - it's essentially the perfect game and every level exhibits the kind of innovation and new ideas that a lesser company would recycle into an entire world or mechanic for a whole game.

 

Moves like rescuing Bayonetta 2. The Bayonetta double pack looks incredible, and absolutely one of the best most polished releases of the year. But no one else was interested in it and the franchise would have died without Nintendo.

 

New takes on existing genres like Splatoon - who else is doing a team based shooter like that? It's either gruff space marines or war in the desert! Again, the Nintendo difference.

 

Nintendo may not be perfect, but they are an important counterbalance in the industry. You might mock @Serebii, but his point is valid. Without Nintendo, the industry would be two consoles with exactly the same focus and output.

 

Nintendo do get stuff wrong - but they also get a hell of a lot of stuff right.

[Wii]

The Month Of Peach came and went without so much as a whimper. What the hell was the point of it and what's next? Wild mushrooms are plentiful at this time of year. Are we going to have September as The Month Of Toad?

[Sheikah]

XBO and PS4 are essentially identical. Whilst Nintendo does lack the robust online services and third party support it offers something different.

 

Games like Kirby's Canvas Curse are a perfect example. A vibrant art style and something different to what others are doing. That's the Nintendo philosophy. It makes Nintendo stand out in a good way.

 

Just take Super Mario 3D World - it's essentially the perfect game and every level exhibits the kind of innovation and new ideas that a lesser company would recycle into an entire world or mechanic for a whole game.

 

Moves like rescuing Bayonetta 2. The Bayonetta double pack looks incredible, and absolutely one of the best most polished releases of the year. But no one else was interested in it and the franchise would have died without Nintendo.

 

New takes on existing genres like Splatoon - who else is doing a team based shooter like that? It's either gruff space marines or war in the desert! Again, the Nintendo difference.

 

Nintendo may not be perfect, but they are an important counterbalance in the industry. You might mock @Serebii, but his point is valid. Without Nintendo, the industry would be two consoles with exactly the same focus and output.

 

Nintendo do get stuff wrong - but they also get a hell of a lot of stuff right.

 

Nintendo does well with its software.

 

Making a machine that is powerful with good network features and a similar OS to the competition will not prevent them from making the same good software. What it would do is allow themselves to make better games, but just as original, all the while creating a system more attractive to third parties.

 

So long as that case remains to be true, there is no excuse for why Nintendo should not be 'me too' on hardware. Innovate the hell away on peripherals, but deliver on the core hardware.

[Hero-of-Time]

The Month Of Peach came and went without so much as a whimper. What the hell was the point of it and what's next? Wild mushrooms are plentiful at this time of year. Are we going to have September as The Month Of Toad?

 

The little guy is due some love! I would celebrate the hell out of that month.

[Jonnas]

Woah, what? You're the one saying "if it looks like he has a point, it's an accident". If you want to look for people making shitty points, look inwards. :p

 

I was referring solely to your first sentence when I said that.

 

...Like I said previously, Pachter hammers the same point constantly, regardless of context. Whatever comment he'll make, it's a predictable one. He's bound to be right once in a while, much like a roulette player who always bets on the same number.

 

It's not like I called out on the guy out of nowhere for having a different opinion than mine, I justified exactly why I think he's wrong this time as well.

 

Case in point, his call for Nintendo to ditch hardware is a good shout, because their hardware is pretty shitty and is basically a barrier to their otherwise often very good software. While he might talk some shit, he can also make a lot of sense, so I don't agree with dismissing him like you.

 

Even if he was right about cloud-based gaming, dropping everything you're doing now to capitalise on that is still a bad move.

 

I also disagree (along with many others) with the notion that Nintendo should abandon hardware.

 

Lol Serebii thanking your post after you pretty much ripped him.

 

If he agrees with my criticism of him, that's cool. "lol" wouldn't be my reaction, though.

[Sheikah]

...Like I said previously, Pachter hammers the same point constantly, regardless of context. Whatever comment he'll make, it's a predictable one. He's bound to be right once in a while, much like a roulette player who always bets on the same number.

 

If his comments are always predictable then how is it like a roulette wheel? That's a poor analogy. More like, you are saying that he says obvious things like "Nintendo should go with HD", and that he is right because everyone knows that is the way to go in the industry. Your problem with him is that he doesn't try hard to analyse situations rather than making up lots of shit, and some of it hitting the mark due to the number of ideas he comes up with.

 

That's obviously not always the case though, is it? Calling for Nintendo to stop making hardware is based on how crappy the units sell - but that's not a predictable thing to ask for, since a lot of people here don't want that (while I know quite a few would be happy, too). He's also basing this demand on sales figures - something an analyst would do, and not someone randomly making demands like you're suggesting. I'm not saying he is always right, but it seems like you're ready to dismiss everything he says based on who he is rather than the points he makes. In the case of the third party route, Nintendo stand to make a lot more money by selling their titles on systems that a lot of people have, rather than on their system that a lot of gamers have no interest in.

[Pestneb]

If his comments are always predictable then how is it like a roulette wheel?

Read his post again. Clue: he didn't say Mr Pachters predictions were like a roulette wheel.