The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Wii U / Switch

[Ronnie]

It'll be interesting to see what launch games we get though now, i'd be surprised if Mario came at launch considering we haven't seen anything solid about it yet

 

This from a couple of weeks ago...

 

 

 

She's said she'll do a similar update to her Zelda one about Mario, Kart and Pokemon in the next day or two.

[Rummy]

If we're really lucky, we might even get it in time for the Switch's successor

[Shorty]

I want this game. But I definitely file it firmly under the "release it when it's ready" category. Not gonna make March? That only makes me more excited and confident.

They can take as long as they want with it, this comment of hers has me really really excited...

Breath of the Wild is one of the largest games — if not the largest game — that Nintendo has ever developed. It’s probably larger than Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, and Wind Waker combined.

 

I feel like I've played enough big open world games in the last ten years to know that size doesn't matter (ha) at least up to a point.

 

To me Windwaker was amazing because they packed so many atmospheric events and happenstance into the traversal of what was on the surface just a flat seascape.

 

For a Zelda game going big is no good if everything exciting is just further away, over a few more procedurally generated grassy knolls. It needs to do two things for me: 1, step up the sense that this is a real, inhabitable world, fewer random bottomless pits and inexplicable cliff wall boundaries. And 2, ensure it still retains and densely packs the magic and character that makes the series special.

[Retro_Link]

Push it to Christmas 2017. That seasonal magic.

[Rummy]

When or where are you gonna draw the line though? One Zelda every 10 years? Constantly coming towards the end of console lifetimes or as a transitional title? I think it's pretty appalling to have not seen a new Zelda on WiiU yet tbh.

 

To me Windwaker was amazing because they packed so many atmospheric events and happenstance into the traversal of what was on the surface just a flat seascape.

 

Yeah WW was good despite being big - there was something in literally every square of the map(even if that was just charting it) and treasures and pointers that send you elsewhere etc. Admittedly that was taken somewhat to a longer extreme with the Triforce hunt but I don't think I actually hated it too much because there was actually a lot of money around it too - and I love me some rupees!

 

For a Zelda game going big is no good if everything exciting is just further away, over a few more procedurally generated grassy knolls. It needs to do two things for me: 1, step up the sense that this is a real, inhabitable world, fewer random bottomless pits and inexplicable cliff wall boundaries. And 2, ensure it still retains and densely packs the magic and character that makes the series special.

 

Exactly what let TP down imo. They went big but thinned out the content in the world. It's a shame, because they did some cool/interesting things with the dungeons and the items; but there just wasn't enough use for them outside really.

[Ronnie]

I think it's pretty appalling to have not seen a new Zelda on WiiU yet tbh.

 

Great games take time.

 

I feel like I've played enough big open world games in the last ten years to know that size doesn't matter (ha) at least up to a point.

 

Absolutely, but I'm confident Nintendo will fill their world with quality. When I read "bigger than Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword and Wind Waker combined" I didn't read in terms of land mass, I figured in terms of content, which is hugely exciting

[Dog-amoto]

If we're really lucky, we might even get it in time for the Switch's successor

 

But the PS4 is already out...

[Ashley]

When or where are you gonna draw the line though? One Zelda every 10 years? Constantly coming towards the end of console lifetimes or as a transitional title? I think it's pretty appalling to have not seen a new Zelda on WiiU yet tbh.

 

 

 

Yeah WW was good despite being big - there was something in literally every square of the map(even if that was just charting it) and treasures and pointers that send you elsewhere etc. Admittedly that was taken somewhat to a longer extreme with the Triforce hunt but I don't think I actually hated it too much because there was actually a lot of money around it too - and I love me some rupees!

 

 

 

Exactly what let TP down imo. They went big but thinned out the content in the world. It's a shame, because they did some cool/interesting things with the dungeons and the items; but there just wasn't enough use for them outside really.

 

Maybe (hopefully) they'll be able to build upon this game now and release something more quickly next time.

[Rummy]

Great games take time.

 

Wow, you've really opened my eyes with your efficient method of focusing on just one small part of my post. However, you're obviously very right about it, and great games DO take time.

 

 

No more Mario or Zelda for 30 years. Just to get it REALLY right. Calling it now, I can't possibly be wrong. Just call me the next Emily Rogers guys

 

 

Maybe (hopefully) they'll be able to build upon this game now and release something more quickly next time.

 

 

Do you mean like an MM/OoT situation of asset reusage? Or just jumping off from the process of this one? Definitely do hope the next one doesn't take as long or at least syncs up sensibly with a console's timeline. TP for Wii was kinda acceptable, but SS came so far later - are we always going to be getting to a point of getting these games at the end of the console's cycle, whereas before they tended to be at the heart of it?

 

Does anyone else not wonder if they've possibly lost sales of this game, the Switch, or both due to the time it's taken?

Edited November 15, 2016 by Rummy

[Shorty]

Does anyone else not wonder if they've possibly lost sales of this game, the Switch, or both due to the time it's taken?

Not a portion worth consideration IMO. Ocarina of Time was meant to be released by the end of 1997, but it came out in November 1998. Delays are par for the course in all the biggest and most memorable games of our lifetime.

 

Ronnie may have generalised the issue a bit, but with Zelda it's far better to take your time and get it right, than to hit some deadline to appease your shareholders.

 

For everyone there is annoyed and shying away from this game because of delays, I'm sure there's someone like me who's more excited by that than ever to balance it out.

[Retro_Link]

In a strange way, I'd almost be more inclined to buy a Switch at Launch, knowing there's a Zelda coming at Christmas because it gives the first year longevity.

 

However in saying that... a) It could mean the launch line-up is weaker is a result, if Zelda was originally planned to be there, and b) the first year could be given longevity anyway in January when we hopefully hear of many more games.

 

I've got to be honest. There was a point when I was just feeling like Mario and Zelda were the only franchises Nintendo would focus on. I don't want them all the time. I'd rather they be spaced out and varied.

 

You have to think that whatever Zelda follows is going to have to be drastically different again. The problem with Hyrule as a land is that it generally always encompasses all environments, so how will the next Zelda differentiate itself from an already open world Hyrule?

[Rummy]

Not a portion worth consideration IMO. Ocarina of Time was meant to be released by the end of 1997, but it came out in November 1998. Delays are par for the course in all the biggest and most memorable games of our lifetime.

 

Ronnie may have generalised the issue a bit, but with Zelda it's far better to take your time and get it right, than to hit some deadline to appease your shareholders.

 

For everyone there is annoyed and shying away from this game because of delays, I'm sure there's someone like me who's more excited by that than ever to balance it out.

 

But no one seems to adress my actual question - where do you draw the line? Or don't you? You just wait forever for it??

 

Also the OoT delay, whilst annoying, happened in a much more different world for a number of reasons. None of us were here. Information wasn't as free-flowing, I'd daresay the market was different at the time, let alone me/us as consumers too. Not to mention a delay from 1996 to 1997 is NOT the same as Nintendo promising you an end of 2015 release(after a 2013 announce) to a still as of yet unannounced and rumoured delay into 2017.

 

Let's also not ignore my other point - where the game comes in the console's life cycle. The 1997 release of OoT for N64 compared to a vague 2017 release for WiiU - a console they're already officially announced is soon to stop production - is not really the same. They will have literally stopped making their console before they've gotten a new Zelda game out for it.

 

 

But hey, it's ok. Great games take time.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Rummy

[Shorty]

I don't get why this is even a thing.... A good game should wait until it's ready. But yknow, apply normal human rationale to that statement. Of course there's a point where it's too long, but as long as you believe the developers are working on making the best game they can (as opposed to say, doing a Duke Nukem Forever and going through development hell), then delays of a year or two are okay by me.

 

What would you propose as a solution??

Edited November 15, 2016 by Shorty

[Retro_Link]

If you only own a Nintendo console then yes there is probably reason to be annoyed by the length of time it is taking the game to come out. But other than that I can't see any reason for argument. There are too many games to play as it is. And if Zelda is your favourite, you may be left wanting, but surely it's worth the wait. For me it is.

 

I'd want any game to be as good as it can be. I'd be happy with The Last Guardian taking another year to come out, knowing that it's actively been in development again. I'm almost worried it's only been 18 months since its re-reveal.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Retro_Link

[liger05]

I think a delay would be a major blow for the new platform. A new Zelda title at launch helps an awful lot.

 

Is it really worth releasing a wii u version months after the switch is out. I know they promised it but the game will be doa. Once the switch is out and in its stride the wii u will be completely insignificant.

[Ronnie]

Wow, you've really opened my eyes with your efficient method of focusing on just one small part of my post. However, you're obviously very right about it, and great games DO take time

 

I didn't see anything else in your post worth focusing on. At least we've agreed that great games take time. Just not the 10 years you've quoted but more like 5 in Breath of the Wild's case.

 

Again, I see this news as a good thing. The game sounds amazing, Nintendo never said it would release in March, and another 3-6 months is nothing really.

[Retro_Link]

The rest of your hyperbole filled post wasn't worth focusing on, that's why. At least we've agreed that great games take time. Just not the 10 years you've quoted but more like 5 in Breath of the Wild's case.

 

Again, I see this news as a good thing. The game sounds amazing, Nintendo never said it would release in March, and another 3-6 months is nothing really.

To play devils advocate. If the Wii U is your only console you'd probably have a case to be annoyed. I would expect the vast majority of those console sales came with the assumption that they'd be playing Nintendo's first HD Mario and Zelda on it (Wind Waker remake aside). For those who have to think about their game and console purchases wisely due to the cost of gaming, these people may now feel short changed.

 

Ultimately I think Nintendo have just got themselves into an incredibly bad situation over the last few years. HD development, restructuring, loss, being out of touch, game releases etc... etc... we're all aware of their shortcomings.

 

Breath of the Wild is not only a breath of fresh air for the Zelda franchise, but for Nintendo as a company. To me it almost feels like this game is synonymous with their hopeful turnaround. Nintendo's Awakening.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Retro_Link

[Rummy]

I don't get why this is even a thing.... A good game should wait until it's ready. But yknow, apply normal human rationale to that statement. Of course there's a point where it's too long, but as long as you believe the developers are working on making the best game they can (as opposed to say, doing a Duke Nukem Forever and going through development hell), then delays of a year or two are okay by me.

 

What would you propose as a solution??

 

Solution? Focus harder to prioritise and get their bigger games out for their systems sooner. Do you really think it's all that great that the WiiU has/is ending production, and still hasn't even seen its own Zelda title?

 

Also you say normal human rationale - but there's clearly some difference here; I'm saying the delay so far in relation to the consoles life-cycle itself is rather appalling. You seem to think that it isn't, but I still don't know what or where it is for you guys that you draw the line of acceptability on the apparent amount of time that a game should be delayed. I'm just wondering where everyone's line is for what's acceptable, if they at all actually draw a line? 'Great games take time' gives no definition. 'normal human rationale' gives no definition.

 

It's fine to just throw phrases at my argument, but I don't know what is wrong with the question I'm asking that people struggle to answer it; where is the line drawn for you, if at all? How long do you feel IS acceptable the wait? If you've never really given it thought and don't know, that's in itself a fair answer, but it seems rationalising the delays you must surely have something in your mind on where your limits are?

 

I bought my WiiU in part for Zelda; I've yet to even see it and the console's being dropped from production. Regardless of whatever other tastes or things I have to entertain me - I don't see why it isn't something that shouldn't be discussed.

 

 

Seriously - I'm just asking; where do people draw their lines on delays? For example @Retro_Link - let's say Last Guardian takes even longer than a year for you; at what point does that level of delay stop being acceptable?

 

Also is Zelda worth the wait? Maybe once. I'd ask - was TP worth the wait for many people? Was SS worth the wait for many people? I mean, sure, a Zelda *should* be worth the wait but what if it's getting to a point that you're waiting, and it's just not even being worth it for you anymore?! Where do all these balances end up?

[Ronnie]

To play devils advocate. If the Wii U is your only console you'd probably have a case to be annoyed. I would expect the vast majority of those console sales came with the assumption that they'd be playing Nintendo's first HD Mario and Zelda on it (Wind Waker remake aside). For those who have to think about their game and console purchases wisely due to the cost of gaming, these people may now feel short changed.

 

Wii U owners will still get their HD Zelda game though, and I suspect it'll be worth the wait. They've also gotten a couple of HD remasters in the meantime.

[Retro_Link]

Wii U owners will still get their HD Zelda game though, and I suspect it'll be worth the wait. They've also gotten a couple of HD remasters in the meantime.

What are they doing for the next year whilst they wait?

[Ronnie]

I bought my WiiU in part for Zelda; I've yet to even see it and the console's being dropped from production.

 

That's your call if you bought a console without there being any reveal of a Zelda game for it at the time. As for it ending production, I don't see what difference that makes, you have yours and will get to play a Zelda game on it. Yes it's taking a long time but the scale and scope of the game means a longer development time and I'm sure they're working as fast as they can on it. What's the alternative? Rushing it and releasing a half-arsed or bug filled game like some other AAA games releases these days, just to meet a deadline? No thanks.

 

What are they doing for the next year whilst they wait?

 

That's a very different subject though, but I agree with you there.

[Rummy]

That's your call if you bought a console without there being any reveal of a Zelda game for it at the time.

 

I didn't, just ftr.

[Retro_Link]

For example @Retro_Link - let's say Last Guardian takes even longer than a year for you; at what point does that level of delay stop being acceptable?

For me it doesn't really matter because my focus shifts to other releases/media. Plus a game's development can be an enjoyable narrative in itself.

 

As long as I know a game is actively being worked on I'll happily wait.

However, if The Last Guardian were to disappear again for 7 years, I'd quite likely say 'sod it' and move on. However, if in 7 years time it were to be shown at E3 and blow the world away, I'd snap it up in a heart beat. I wouldn't hold a lasting grudge against a game for such a matter.

[Shorty]

Solution? Focus harder to prioritise and get their bigger games out for their systems sooner.

You really think it's that simple? Like right now they're all sitting around with their feet up like "which game makes us the most money? Idk, do you? Nah, lets just keep making them all at an average pace". You know better how to run Nintendo, how to build a multimillion dollar project that absolutely has to succeed? You think they want delays? When they have probably already gone over budget and can no longer afford to pay staff under their existing allocation, when shareholders are breathing down their necks for a release but they know that they have unexpected bugs in x and y and that areas 14-18 are lacking and will be poorly received critically if they do not go back to the drawing board etc etc

 

I just feel like it's so easy to lean back and armchair criticise Nintendo as if everything they do is just because they're lazy or stupid or don't care, when the reason will actually be infinitely more complicated.

[dazzybee]

What's funny though @Retro_Link is the people who seem to be annoyed are people who own other consoles...

 

This reminds me of the USB charging fiasco, just nothing to get annoyed about.

 

In some ways you could take a positive look at it and surely this means Mario will be at launch. One was always launch and one for xmas. Whatever way around it's great. Though personally I'd prefer Zelda first and magical mario for xmas, but whatever!