General Gaming Sales/Charts Discussion

[Daft]

There's no chance they'll turn it round any time soon. There aren't even any green shoots. Everything that could go wrong basically has gone wrong; it's a incredibly badly run company - not unlike Sony circa 2006. Their Wii U sales are abysmal, like the Vita it's a product that no one really asked for or needs. What's probably worse is that Nintendo has lost a horrendous amount of mind share on top of all this.

 

They need a radical overhaul. They need to rethink all their processes and their strategy. And that will take years.

[Happenstance]

 

How will he turn it around? Serious question here.

 

Free Wii U with every copy of Super Mario 3D World?

[Serebii]

Here's how I can see it.

 

Relaunch.

 

It worked for the PS3, sort of happened and worked with the 3DS.

 

• Redo the logo, emphasise the U part of the Wii U, perhaps remove Wii altogether and call it the Nintendo U.
  
• New model of console. Cheaper parts so they can sell at a lower cost.
  
• 2 SKUs
  
  • GamePadless with Wiimote Plus and/or Pro Controller: ~$199.99. OS defaults to the screen on TV being what is on the GamePad as default so WaraWara Plaza can't be accessed. Can't switch unless you sync a GamePad.
    
  • With GamePad & Wiimote Plus: ~$249.99.
    
  • GamePad on sale on its own $79.99

  [*]As most games offer alternatives in control, you can throw a "Better with the GamePad" style thing on the box. For ones that require it, like games that require Kinect, marked clearly on the box.

  [*]Bundle could include Super Mario 3D World or Mario Kart 8 to further push it

 

Iwata mentioned today that they're funnelling even more money into advertising and that is another reason why projected profits are lower. Use that for a massive relaunch.

 

Software is fine, though they need more of it, sure. Third party support is a lost cause, what Nintendo need to do is try and lure them back for the next console, but have to ride the Wii U through until 2016 at least. In the meantime, continue with the deals made with Sega, Platinum, Koei Temco etc. to make exclusives, with Nintendo fronting much of the costs.

 

This is the only thing I can see Nintendo do to potentially turn it around.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Serebii

[Daft]

Software isn't fine. Nintendo haven't invested enough in expanding their studios and you can't gloss over the lack of third parties by saying they're a 'lost cause'.

[Serebii]

Software isn't fine. Nintendo haven't invested enough in expanding their studios and you can't gloss over the lack of third parties by saying they're a 'lost cause'.

The new building, massive amount of hiring and outsourcing loads of stuff isn't doing enough?

 

Ok.

 

Third party for the Wii U is a lost cause. They won't come back.

[Sheikah]

They should just get rid of the gamepad and rename it the Wii, and sell it for a similar price. Probably would do better then.

[Daft]

The new building, massive amount of hiring and outsourcing loads of stuff isn't doing enough?

 

Ok.

 

No, that's an absolute bare minimum. A new building? Wow, really switching things up. /s

 

Nintendo need to diversify its development studios. It needs to open more studios in America and Europe. It needs to crawl out of the Japan-centric trench it has dug itself.

 

Nintendo will never be able to appeal to a global audience on any substantial level if it doesn't exist on a global level. They were once able to get away with that attitude because of third parties. Now they have nothing.

 

Third party for the Wii U is a lost cause. They won't come back.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they never came back to Nintendo and their antiquated ways, not just the Wii U.

[Rummy]

The problem is, what is the WiiU without the Gamepad? Nothing of note imo, and thus it's not going to do anything. Nintendo made many many mistakes all along the way here, that we've all spoken about time and time again - there's no real recovery, best case is probably minimisation of damage.

 

From Gaf who got it from Nikkei.

 

 

 

How will he turn it around? Serious question here.

 

I feel like Iwata doesn't want to let go for some reason - I wonder why. Tbh I do think it needs some fresh movements and approaches, but with him staying at the helm and keeping things as they are now I can see this all being a classic case of good money after bad.

[Sheikah]

The problem is, what is the WiiU without the Gamepad? Nothing of note imo, and thus it's not going to do anything.

 

Yeah, it's basically just an Xbox 360/PS3. They so royally screwed up by making it so underpowered.

[Mr-Paul]

Really, it's pretty doomed. Dropping the GamePad won't do much other than making it cheaper, which I don't think will effect sales that much. Price doesn't matter as much if you have a desirable product. Third parties won't develop for it now. Nintendo can't drop the console if they ever want to release another in the future.

 

I like the console and the Gamepad, but can't help but feel disappointed with the hardware. Yes, the Wii didn't compare in specs with the 360 or PS3, but something about it felt more special, like it didn't matter that it was different. With Wii U, it just feels slightly unexciting and inadequate (the 32gb storage is a joke in this day and age).

 

It's clear that it's failed to catch on much all around the world, but it is particularly dead in the UK. I think we've been shown that people like Nintendo games, but not enough to buy a console that offers ONLY Nintendo games.

[Goron_3]

@Daft is 100% correct in that they need to diversify their line up to appeal to a global audience. They've ignored the need of western gamers for so long as closing/getting rid of western studios other than retro has really hurt them.

 

They are stuck in cycle and NoJ don't know how to get out of it.

[Serebii]

Yeah, it's basically just an Xbox 360/PS3. They so royally screwed up by making it so underpowered.

Thing is, will going the power route actually do much except put Nintendo in the grave sooner?

 

Look at Microsoft's Xbox Division. Despite them being at a profit the last few years, they are still very heavily in the red.

Look at Sony. After the PS1 and PS2, the PS3 killed their finances and put them in the red. Kaz fired 10,000 staff and sold a building, just to make things look alright. They're still not in a good place.

 

Both Xbox One and PS4 are being sold at a loss. Less loss than before, sure, but a loss. However, the other companies have other divisions to hold it up until it's profitable.

 

Nintendo does not. Let's say Nintendo goes for a PS4 level powered console and release it tomorrow. They sell it at the same price, $399. This will have a decent sized loss. Nobody would buy a Nintendo console at that price so let's say $299. Even bigger loss.

 

Within 5 years of Nintendo following this route, they would end up bankrupt. If Nintendo did this, I would be calling for Iwata's head myself. It would destroy their company faster than anything.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Serebii

[Goron_3]

Thing is, will going the power route actually do much except put Nintendo in the grave sooner?

 

Look at Microsoft's Xbox Division. Despite them being at a profit the last few years, they are still very heavily in the red.

Look at Sony. After the PS1 and PS2, the PS3 killed their finances and put them in the red. Kaz fired 10,000 staff and sold a building, just to make things look alright. They're still not in a good place.

 

Both Xbox One and PS4 are being sold at a loss. Less loss than before, sure, but a loss. However, the other companies have other divisions to hold it up until it's profitable.

 

Nintendo does not. Let's say Nintendo goes for a PS4 level powered console and release it tomorrow. They sell it at the same price, $399. This will have a decent sized loss. Nobody would buy a Nintendo console at that price so let's say $299. Even bigger loss.

 

Within 5 years of Nintendo following this route, they would end up bankrupted. If Nintendo did this, I would be calling for Iwata's head myself. It would destroy their company faster than anything.

 

No one is saying that they make a loss, ffs. If they release a powerful system (as powerful as they can for say 299) listen to 3rd parties and diversify their lineup whilst bringing traditional franchises, they will be fine.

 

Look at the N64; insanely powerful and sold over 30million units despite Nintendo's best efforts to see it fail.

 

Please Joe, PLEASE stop with your 'a powerful system will mean losing lots on each system' speech as it's tiring. No one is suggesting that.

[Hero-of-Time]

I'm curious, where did the 9 million units come from? That number was NEVER going to be reached, so why say it at all? Surely it would have been better to predict a more conservative number?

[Serebii]

I'm curious, where did the 9 million units come from? That number was NEVER going to be reached, so why say it at all? Surely it would have been better to predict a more conservative number?

It was given at the start of the fiscal year, with Nintendo's hope for the turnaround.They just didn't revise it until today.

 

No one is saying that they make a loss, ffs. If they release a powerful system (as powerful as they can for say 299) listen to 3rd parties and diversify their lineup whilst bringing traditional franchises, they will be fine.

 

Look at the N64; insanely powerful and sold over 30million units despite Nintendo's best efforts to see it fail.

 

Please Joe, PLEASE stop with your 'a powerful system will mean losing lots on each system' speech as it's tiring. No one is suggesting that.

That's because it will happen. You can't have the power people want at the moment without loss. That's a fact of technology at the moment.

[Sheikah]

Thing is, will going the power route actually do much except put Nintendo in the grave sooner?

 

Look at Microsoft's Xbox Division. Despite them being at a profit the last few years, they are still very heavily in the red.

Look at Sony. After the PS1 and PS2, the PS3 killed their finances and put them in the red. Kaz fired 10,000 staff and sold a building, just to make things look alright. They're still not in a good place.

 

Both Xbox One and PS4 are being sold at a loss. Less loss than before, sure, but a loss. However, the other companies have other divisions to hold it up until it's profitable.

 

Nintendo does not. Let's say Nintendo goes for a PS4 level powered console and release it tomorrow. They sell it at the same price, $399. This will have a decent sized loss. Nobody would buy a Nintendo console at that price so let's say $299. Even bigger loss.

 

Within 5 years of Nintendo following this route, they would end up bankrupted. If Nintendo did this, I would be calling for Iwata's head myself. It would destroy their company faster than anything.

 

Well look at the X1 and PS4. Both went down the power route, which in turn garnered consumer support and simultaneously dev support. And both are doing very well.

 

I remember with the N64 where Nintendo were at the forefront of things, Mario 64 blew people away both in terms of gameplay and presentation. They were leading the way.

 

Now it looks like they're a generation behind. Because they pretty much are.

[Hero-of-Time]

It was given at the start of the fiscal year, with Nintendo's hope for the turnaround.They just didn't revise it until today.

 

Yeah, but a turnaround of that magnitude was VERY optimistic. It would have been better to say 5-6 million and then the revision wouldn't have looked so bad.

 

What made him think they would reach 9 million? Mario? I mean I know he has said that one game can turn the tide but come on.

[Serebii]

Yeah, but a turnaround of that magnitude was VERY optimistic. It would have been better to say 5-6 million and then the revision wouldn't have looked so bad.

 

What made him think they would reach 9 million? Mario? I mean I know he has said that one game can turn the tide but come on.

I guess they were hoping for 3DS level turnaround :-/

[liger05]

Thing is, will going the power route actually do much except put Nintendo in the grave sooner?

 

Look at Microsoft's Xbox Division. Despite them being at a profit the last few years, they are still very heavily in the red.

Look at Sony. After the PS1 and PS2, the PS3 killed their finances and put them in the red. Kaz fired 10,000 staff and sold a building, just to make things look alright. They're still not in a good place.

 

Both Xbox One and PS4 are being sold at a loss. Less loss than before, sure, but a loss. However, the other companies have other divisions to hold it up until it's profitable.

 

Nintendo does not. Let's say Nintendo goes for a PS4 level powered console and release it tomorrow. They sell it at the same price, $399. This will have a decent sized loss. Nobody would buy a Nintendo console at that price so let's say $299. Even bigger loss.

 

Within 5 years of Nintendo following this route, they would end up bankrupt. If Nintendo did this, I would be calling for Iwata's head myself. It would destroy their company faster than anything.

 

How many times does it need to be said, Nintendo didnt need to produce a PS4. A console which was a clear step up from the 360/PS3 and one which could run next gen engines would of helped. Secondly Nintendo were making a loss with the Wii U out of the gate yet the system was underpowered so whats the difference?

 

Its not just about power. Its about services and features as well.

 

A decent networking system, a proper account system, media capabilities, fast intuitive UI and so on.

Edited January 17, 2014 by liger05

[Serebii]

How many times does it need to be said, Nintendo didnt need to produce a PS4. A console which was a clear step up from the 360/PS3 and one which could run next gen engines would of helped. Secondly Nintendo were making a loss with the Wii U out of the gate yet the system was underpowered so whats the difference?

 

Its not just about power. Its about services and features as well.

 

A decent networking system, a proper account system, media capabilities, fast intuitive UI and so on.

The latter has no impact.

 

Besides, people aren't factoring in that it's not just the Wii U selling badly that has caused the loss.

 

Nintendo shifted $125m more than expected into their R&D this fiscal year. This won't show any returns for at least a year.

They have their new building being created.

Unlike other companies suffering losses, Nintendo has hired a craptonne more staff.

Their advertising budget has been severely increased, as well.

Then there's the whole Yen issue.

 

These things add up more than the Wii U struggling. If anything, you could say Nintendo doing all of this is damaging it more than the Wii U.

[bryanee]

 

Me after those 3DS forecast drops and the whole situation in general.

 

I'd repackage the Wii U and just call it Wii 2 with all new advertising campaign. Maybe even drop the gamepad from bundles and stick in pro pad and Wiimote. As much as I like the gamepad I struggle to find many games that use it in any meaningful way.

[Hero-of-Time]

The latter has no impact.

 

I disagree.

 

Microsoft and Sony have spent the last generation building up their network to the point where it's like a social site. People have then made friends on these networks, put time into getting trophies and achievements and generally got used to how things work. This has made it a very easy way for both companies to get these gamers back into the fold for this next generation. People have invested time and money into these services and want to continue to do so.

 

Nintendo have no such online hook and as such it's easy for many gamers to dismiss them.

[liger05]

The latter has no impact.

 

Besides, people aren't factoring in that it's not just the Wii U selling badly that has caused the loss.

 

Nintendo shifted $125m more than expected into their R&D this fiscal year. This won't show any returns for at least a year.

They have their new building being created.

Unlike other companies suffering losses, Nintendo has hired a craptonne more staff.

Their advertising budget has been severely increased, as well.

Then there's the whole Yen issue.

 

These things add up more than the Wii U struggling. If anything, you could say Nintendo doing all of this is damaging it more than the Wii U.

 

But the loss isnt just the issue here. Even if they were making a profit it wouldnt excuse the shocking sales of the Wii U.

 

Why does the latter have no impact? You think consumers do not care about services?

 

I disagree.

 

Microsoft and Sony have spent the last generation building up their network to the point where it's like a social site. People have then made friends on these networks, put time into getting trophies and achievements and generally got used to how things work. This has made it a very easy way for both companies to get these gamers back into the fold for this next generation. People have invested time and money into these services and want to continue to do so.

 

Nintendo have no such online hook and as such it's easy for many gamers to dismiss them.

 

Exactly. To think a viable ecosystem does not matter is ridicoulas. I bought the PS4 over XB1 mainly cos of price. If XB1 would of been cheaper I would of chose that simply because I was tied into Live through the 360. It matters and for Nintendo to carry on like these things are of no concern to the gamers is laughable.

Edited January 17, 2014 by liger05

[Serebii]

But the loss isnt just the issue here. Even if they were making a profit it wouldnt excuse the shocking sales of the Wii U.

 

Why does the latter have no impact? You think consumers do not care about services?

 

It wouldn't excuse the sales, no, but people wouldn't be massively doomsaying about the company as the company would be making money.

[Rummy]

Look at Microsoft's Xbox Division. Despite them being at a profit the last few years, they are still very heavily in the red.

Look at Sony. After the PS1 and PS2, the PS3 killed their finances and put them in the red. Kaz fired 10,000 staff and sold a building, just to make things look alright. They're still not in a good place.

 

I'm sure you were asked to source that before, and conviniently ignored the request. Stop claiming it unless you are actually willing to back it up with something decent.

 

Yeah, it's basically just an Xbox 360/PS3. They so royally screwed up by making it so underpowered.

 

Exactly - with a choice between gamepadlessWiiU, 360 or PS3...I think I know which one'll be falling in at 3rd place. Even if it were £150, the 360+PS3 can be gotten for near comparable costs, and has a wealth of cheap back catalogue, the Wii U really has nothing BUT its game pad in the grand scheme of things.

 

It was given at the start of the fiscal year, with Nintendo's hope for the turnaround.They just didn't revise it until today.

 

That's because it will happen. You can't have the power people want at the moment without loss. That's a fact of technology at the moment.

 

They're already making a loss without the power route. Your point is moot.

 

The latter has no impact.

 

Just like all those silly pointless online features of pokemon, I'm sure. No impact at all.